Please weigh in on this argument between myself and a host of guys. They claim that it's biblical because the Isrealites were told to destroy the Canaanites. But the same God says we should not kill.

Pastors on both sides of a conflict convince their faithful to fight for their country, telling them God is on their side. Soldiers take crucifixes and rosaries to war.

I find it hard to believe that its biblical. What do you think?

Kodewrita, the old testament does not support war.

[I] 7 "They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
[/I]
(Numbers 31:7-17)

This is not called war in my book. It's worse

Who thought up this topic.

Well, this is a topic which has been controversial over time: who does God support in a war? But the Old Testament did state that God was in support of the Israelites in some wars!

Fight for your conscience. IIf your conscience does not allow you to fight for yor country then burst. That is why there are no drafts again!

So what will you do if Cameroun decides to invade Nigeria? Will you look on, biblical or not?

Our God is a God of War. The Bible says; "The battle is mine, says the Lord." God declares war on his enemies, he gives the righteous power to defeat his enemies(who are actually our enemies but became his enemies because they are against us, his children).

Religion is a strange and sometimes even an irrational thing. People have an amazing ability to compartmentalize learning so that various things never have to interact in their minds.

So it is that apparently educated people can actually suspend their thought processes and reject evolution for "creation science", seek to deny that homosexuality is a given rather than a chosen way of life, or even believe that miracles occur whenever they pray for them. It is not that their minds are closed so much as it is that they cannot allow anything into their minds that threatens the core of their security-giving religious faith.

As I get older, I am impressed by two constant truths:
It is not easy to be human. Anxiety and mortality have to be embraced by self-conscious creatures and that is what [list][li]makes our humanity so unique among the creatures of this earth.[/li]
[li]Religion is primarily a search for security and not a search for truth. Religion is what we so often use to bank the fires of our anxiety. That is why religion tends toward becoming excessive, neurotic, controlling and even evil. That is why a religious government is always a cruel government.[/li][/list]

People need to understand that questioning and doubting are healthy, human activities to be encouraged not to be feared. Certainly is a vice not a virtue. Insecurity is something to be grasped and treasured. A true and healthy religious system will encourage each of these activities. A sick and fearful religious system will seek to remove them.

@allenpowered One, cameroun would be committing suicide if they invaded nigeria. we don't even need guns, just hand every adult nigerian a machete and ask them to march towards yaounde, thats what a large population does for you. apart from that, the total no of camerounian armed forces(including police) stands at 13,000. while in nigeria we have 285,000 troops and countless paramilitary groups including OPC. Bakassi to count a few.
Two, If we are invaded, i will simply switch to french and cross the Seme-border. life is too precious to be wasted fighting for one person's notion of patriotism.

@HNDHolder you obviously sound like someone who believes science has an answer for everything. Religion is only irrational to the irreligious.
Let me correct the fallacies in your post.

While evolution is a damned good theory, it does not explain how we got here. I am a lover of physics and mathematix and based on what they tell me, i find it hard to believe we just got here by chance. Mathematically speaking the biblical creation myth is feasible. why? sit down with a calculator and find out how long it would take the human race to grow from two people to 6 point something billion people.
The current belief now is that science can not presently prove creation to be wrong and faith alone cannot be used to prove creation as faith rests on belief not proof.

Homosexuality is not a given. For it to be a given, it has to be widespread in other species like apes, pigs and canines but its not so we cannot claim it is. It is an abberration occasioned by cultural degradation. It is a cancer that eats at the family which is the basis of any nation or society and it is biologically incompatible with our features. It has always been punished and should continue to be.

I will also like to inform you that evolution-based science is also a religion which seeks to remove the notion of a God. It seeks to make men look down at themselves instead of looking up at a God.

As to the issue of miracles occuring, that is also dependent on the existence of a God,. If one exists, then there should be no obstacles he cannot surmount. And a true christian does not live by miracles, even paul had flaws that he glorified in as he considered them means by which he got closer to God.

I do not compartmentalize learning, every new thing i learn about the human body and other feats of nature or science only create a better picture of how majestic a Creator there is who can create the best pattern-matching engine known (the brain) , pollution-cleaning systems (bacteria) and the best nuclear reactors (the sun and stars).

@IAH Look at this scenario. The US decides to invade Costa Rica. Catholic priests pray on the Costa Rican side, baptists and others on the american side. who will god support.

Note Jesus said: why do you war? is it not because of the desires of your heart which make you covet whats not yours? (forgive me if those are not the exact words but that is the gist of what i read.)

Kodewrita,
I simply say No! to your question.

True GOd does not change but we are in d new testament age now ... the dispensation of the Spirit. All christain belongs to zion/heaven. We r citizens of heaven. we shouldnt pipe low to fight for 1 political nation at this time. The Old testament is ther for us to learn. We r under a new convenant now. Jesus came because the world then was devoid of Love and Presence of the Holy Ghost. We shouldnt live in the old testament times.

layi:

The Old testament is ther for us to learn.

Learn what? But you said

layi:

We shouldnt live in the old testament times.

what did you imply by learning?

layi:

We r under a new convenant now.

Can I say you are confused
or please explain, cos i am confused.

Next time.. Kazey don't post if u've got nothing to contribute to the topic. Its pretty obvious u arent good in communication. U just countered me without no meaningful contribution on your part. This is a public forum, learn to pass your points accross politely. U didnt have to conclude i'm confused. Just ask and wait 4 answers.
Nothing personal.. Just thot it nice 2 point that out so we can enjoy the posts.

Testament means convenant. U don't have to live under the old convenant but the new. What is God saying to us in this age? how does he deal with us?

U sure can learn from the books in the old testament. U'll know where the church was coming from and why we r where we r now. Lots of stuffs to learn.

layi:

Next time.. Kazey don't post if u've got nothing to contribute to the topic. Its pretty obvious u arent good in communication. U just countered me without no meaning contribution on your part.

Well I would note that in the future. Not to ask questions nor contradict Layi in the future. Thanks for letting me know that.

Because you really did not answer my questions, and as far as I know, what I asked is biting you badly. Poor you.

And for your future refrence. It seems this is the first time you are having an interaction in a forum. Telling me, asking a question is not contribution in a forum, really sounds funny to me.

Kazey, he didn't say asking a question was not part of contributing to the forum. I simply quote him:

This is a public forum, learn to pass your points accross politely

And as far as i am concerned he has explained the part where you said u were confused. He simply means we should live in the new testament (which is the convenant he was talking about) And we should forget the old testament.

---

As for my contribution to this thread: I am going to have to say, fighting for your country has nothing to do with the BIble...it's a government thingy.

kazey:

Well I would note that in the future. Not to ask questions nor contradict Layi in the future. Thanks for letting me know that.

I never said that. I advise u on how to be a better forumite. Dont just counter ppls opinion if u've got none. Its easy to tear down

kazey:

Because you really did not answer my questions, and as far as I know, what I asked is biting you badly. Poor you.

I answered your question. Bitting me? I wouldnt answer your question if it did.

kazey:

And for your future refrence. It seems this is the first time you are having an interaction in a forum. Telling me, asking a question is not contribution in a forum, really sounds funny to me.

I only pointed sumtin out and i understand its herculean to try correct sum people. No hard feelins anyway. The topic is about fightin for your country. Its pretty obvious u've got nothin to contribute if all u could do is tear another contribution down.
Its very easy to pull down. We all can do that. But is it constructive in your case? What contribution/justice has your post done to the topic? What have u GOT to say about the topic? Lets move on.

Well he hasnt answered the learning part. So If I must be polite. Please do. . No offence intended too

The Bible is silent in some cases, thats when man must use his intelect to drive a decision. There is no where in the bible that says you must not fight for your country. So fighting for your country is biblical. You are protecting an entity allowed by God into creation.

On the other hard, we need to separate solders from murderers. If you have to kill during an active war as a soldier, it is not a sin (quote - there is no where in the bible that individual soldiers are called murderers when they kill in active war).

However if the killing is not in an active war, then the sin of murder comes in. This is where "Thou shall not kill comes in".

Remember, prayer without works? If you refuse to fight for your country at war and only pray, GOD will not just send his army from heaven to fight for you. Remember, this is one of the 3 tests Christ endured.

Soldering is puting faith to work!!!!.

I am sorry that I just happen to be curious about some certain issues on this thread. What category would we classify "War Crimes". Please if someone can answer. I would really appreciate that.

As a Christian, I don't see anything wrong in you fighting or going to war to defend your country.

What you are simply doing is protecting that, which God has called an entity by His creation, from going into extinction by an act of war.

Will you just sit by and allow your father's property to be distroyed? No.

I would not kill human beings to protect human property. Only when an[b] innocent human life[/b] is at stake would I consider taking deadly action against a fellow human being. Human life is very precious, and should not be wasted unecessarily.

You can fight for your own country..yea.. but i think the bible is against killing

in the book of exodus it says
Thou shall not kill

u can fight but not kill

sorry to divert but in 1916 in the uk, we had a war, some people didnt fight because their conscience is against it, they were called 'conchies'

what am just trying to say is, we dont have to fight in the first place, even if we want to our actions would only be accountable to us and us alone

Discussion continued at 'Can a Man With Integrity Be Both a Soldier And a Christian?'

If our forefathers did not fight wars do Ɣ☺Ʊ know where we will be? Plucking sugar canes with padlocks in our mouths to stop us from eatin them while harvesting.it is easy to say thou shall not kill until ur child or family member is killed in front of Ɣ☺Ʊ then Ɣ☺Ʊ won't know when Ɣ☺Ʊ ll carry matchet. Yes we should not kill but Ɣ☺Ʊ can defend urself, ur family n ur country even if it ll cause some deaths. D truth of life is dat no one will giv Ɣ☺Ʊ ur right if Ɣ☺Ʊ don't fight. Wars r not for killin dats y prisoners r taken when they surrender: war is to fight or change an anomaly. bible said honour thy father n thy mother but if ur father sexually or mentally abuses Ɣ☺Ʊ,does this commandment still hold. No, it is an anomaly: Ɣ☺Ʊ either get him arrested or Ɣ☺Ʊ cut his d, k off, just a few suggestions dat r well deserved. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt take up thy sword against evil

In essence coolviv, we are not to follow what the bible says?

No, fighting for your country is the ultimate act of patriotism.

No, fighting for your country is the ultimate act of of a patriot.

kodewrita:
Please weigh in on this argument between myself and a host of guys. They claim that it's biblical because the Isrealites were told to destroy the Canaanites. But the same God says we should not kill.

Pastors on both sides of a conflict convibnce their faithful to fight for their country, telling them God is on their side. Soldiers take crucifixes and rosaries to war.

I find it hard to believe that its biblical. What do you think?

You are correct with your analysis, the bible is a ficticious piece of literarture that has little or no real significance to Truth and Reality.

You would learn more Truth with regards the "reality of things" from listening to your parents and or grandparents much better than listening to a "weapon of mass destruction".

Not at all