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Benin Own Ife Bronze - Culture (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by scholes0(m): 1:54pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:


The fact that you think that the Benin Bronzes were made in the 1800s shows your stupidity date of discovery is not the same as date of creation.

And on top of that stupidity you go onto say that there are only 16 pieces of Yoruba bronzes not Ife bronzes but yoruba bronzes which is a blatant lie even if we only concentrate on Ife there are at least more then 30 Ife Bronzes

It is even funny how benin people have such an obsession with brass casted work when in Ife, there were various media of artistic expression ranging from Terracotta/Ceramics to Metallic to Glass all extremely old- infact much older than the Benin works.
Like someone already earlier mentioned here, most Benin people of this present generation are not critical thinkers and are mostly all crass/shabby revisionists that can't even do the job right.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by nisai: 2:08pm On Aug 25, 2021
scholes0:


It is even funny how benin people have such an obsession with brass casted work when in Ife, there were various media of artistic expression ranging from Terracotta/Ceramics to Metallic to Glass all extremely old- infact much older than the Benin works.
Like someone already earlier mentioned here, most Benin people of this present generation are not critical thinkers and are mostly all crass/shabby revisionists that can't even do the job right.
Gbam! Since physicsqed don go na olodos from that side full Nairaland. grin

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by scholes0(m): 2:29pm On Aug 25, 2021
Ancient Yoruba renditions of the notorious solomon's knot on old Benin ancestral altar..... smh

[img]http:///65535/51401616291_95a279b8ba_z.jpg[/img]

8 Likes 1 Share

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by YungMillionaire: 2:58pm On Aug 25, 2021
Reading through these posts I feel really embarrassed for the way the Bini revisionists go about their propaganda. It's pathetic and stupid. In Delta we have a lot of regard for Bini. But what I see on social media (not just Nairaland but twitter, tiktok etc.) makes me sad. How can you represent Bini by spreading easily debunkable lies all over the internet? This is weak and smacks of low self esteem. If you must lie at least do your homework to make sure that the lies are spurious enough to convince a few of the neutrals. Just like the ridiculous lie that turned Oduduwa an Ife man to a Bini man, these blatant lies will continue to expose you guys as incompetent propagandists. The reason some Binis desire to cut their obvious link with Yorubas is jealousy. They are jealous because Yoruba culture is very dominant. But if they are smart, they would preserve the link and use their strong Yoruba heritage to expand Bini influence (Yes I said it. Bini royalty was founded by Ife. The same way Itsekiri royalty was founded by Bini. Infact the only reason Itsekiri accepted a Bini prince was because it was understood that Bini royalty is Yoruba). But they won't do this because for some reason they foolishly think the only way to expand Bini influence is to destroy Yoruba heritage (an impossible task. How can you use weak online propaganda to destroy something centuries of slave trade and slavery could not destroy?). This is one of the dumbest strategies I have ever seen in my life. I know it is tough to be a minority tribe but stupidity will not give you relevance. Most of the places you go outside of Nigeria the only two tribes most people know are Yoruba and Igbo. If you go to France and say 'Bini' they think you are talking of Benin Republic. If you travel to South America the ONLY Nigerian words that ring a bell is Yoruba, Ife, and the names of the Yoruba dieties. So for those minority tribes in the South who have strong connections with Yorubas or Igbos why not take advantage of this connection rather than fight it? If I go to Brazil, Cuba, Colombia etc. as an Itsekiri man why shouldn't I emphasize my Yoruba heritage and still educate about my unique Itsekiri experience? Why shouldn't a Bini man do the same? Why lie to deny yourself of a rich cultural experience? Stupidity is a disease. It renders its victim blind to reality and wisdom. I weep for stupid people. There is no hope for them in this life.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 3:16pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
Apart from Benin Kingdom (where their traditional accounts point to Ife as the source of both the casting tradition and the monarchy); there is another instance of such pointing to Ife (from other places in West Africa) in the passage I cited earlier from Leo Frobenius’ work.

The passage deals with Leo Frobenius’ first travel in West Africa in 1908 before he visited Ife (or “Nigeria”) at all. At these places (in other parts of West Africa), he heard frequent tells about Ife and its greatness.

Frobenius documents his experience (from some other West-African counties about Ife) as follows:

When I came across some experienced explorers in 1908 in the great cities of the Niger on the southern borders of the Sahara,Timbuktu, and Wagadugu, and often discussed the antiquity of the far south-eastern cities, Ilife [Ile-ife] was mentioned as the first of five great places and it was only when in Atakpame in South Togoland, that I identified it with Ife. What I was then told in the North was so strange, indeed, that my resolve to visit the place myself at any cost was greatly strengthened.

Leo Frobenius, “The Voice of Africa,” Vol 1., (1913), p.69.

Peace!
Cc: scholes0

I was looking for documents written by African people before European Contact or at least before the 1800s not European notes on Ile Ife i've already read those severally.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 3:19pm On Aug 25, 2021
scholes0:
Ancient Yoruba renditions of the notorious solomon's knot on old Benin ancestral altar..... smh

[img]http:///65535/51401616291_95a279b8ba_z.jpg[/img]

Shows how yoruba culture jumped across to Bini culture would not be surprised to see some Nsibidi or Aniocha script represented in Bini artefacts tbh

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:20pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
I was looking for documents written by African people before European Contact or at least before the 1800s not European notes on Ile Ife i've already read those severally.
Documents written by Africans in what language?

You mean the Africans who gave those information to Europeans are liars who chose to relegate their own in favour of a foreign African state?

I don’t get what you’re thinking. grin

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by scholes0(m): 3:23pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:


I was looking for documents written by African people before European Contact or at least before the 1800s not European notes on Ile Ife i've already read those severally.

I was the one you quoted, and what I said was that both oral literature of we the people involved as well as the earliest written records from the European explorers point towards ife. I didn't say Africans recorded their history in print or writing. And TAAO's reply gave a very good example of such written sources with an additional layer of orally documented reportage.
Don't conflate the points.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:28pm On Aug 25, 2021
scholes0:
I was the one you quoted, and what I said was that both oral literature of we the people involved as well as the earliest written records from the European explorers point towards ife. I didn't say Africans recorded their history in print or writing. And TAAO's reply gave a very good example of such written sources with an additional layer of orally documented reportage.
Don't conflate the points.
Abohboy appears to be another version of the Binis — but a refined version.

Ife in the whole of sub Saharan Africa had a monopoly of glass manufacturing circa the 1100s

Archaeological excavations at Igbo-Olokun alongside chemical analysis of the finds have submitted this in recent years.

Move Abohboy!

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:32pm On Aug 25, 2021
YungMillionaire:
Reading through these posts I feel really embarrassed for the way the Bini revisionists go about their propaganda. It's pathetic and stupid. In Delta we have a lot of regard for Bini. But what I see on social media (not just Nairaland but twitter, tiktok etc.) makes me sad. How can you represent Bini by spreading easily debunkable lies all over the internet? This is weak and smacks of low self esteem. If you must lie at least do your homework to make sure that the lies are spurious enough to convince a few of the neutrals. Just like the ridiculous lie that turned Oduduwa an Ife man to a Bini man, these blatant lies will continue to expose you guys as incompetent propagandists. The reason some Binis desire to cut their obvious link with Yorubas is jealousy. They are jealous because Yoruba culture is very dominant. But if they are smart, they would preserve the link and use their strong Yoruba heritage to expand Bini influence (Yes I said it. Bini royalty was founded by Ife. The same way Itsekiri royalty was founded by Bini. Infact the only reason Itsekiri accepted a Bini prince was because it was understood that Bini royalty is Yoruba). But they won't do this because for some reason they foolishly think the only way to expand Bini influence is to destroy Yoruba heritage (an impossible task. How can you use weak online propaganda to destroy something centuries of slave trade and slavery could not destroy?). This is one of the dumbest strategies I have ever seen in my life. I know it is tough to be a minority tribe but stupidity will not give you relevance. Most of the places you go outside of Nigeria the only two tribes most people know are Yoruba and Igbo. If you go to France and say 'Bini' they think you are talking of Benin Republic. If you travel to South America the ONLY Nigerian words that ring a bell is Yoruba, Ife, and the names of the Yoruba dieties. So for those minority tribes in the South who have strong connections with Yorubas or Igbos why not take advantage of this connection rather than fight it? If I go to Brazil, Cuba, Colombia etc. as an Itsekiri man why shouldn't I emphasize my Yoruba heritage and still educate about my unique Itesekiri experience? Why shouldn't a Bini man do the same? Why lie to deny yourself of a rich cultural experience? Stupidity is a disease. It renders its victim blind to reality and wisdom. I weep for stupid people. There is no hope for them in this life.
You just dey spill truth left right and center.

Choi.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 3:35pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
Documents written by Africans in what language?

You mean the Africans who gave those information to the Europeans are liars who relegated their own heritage for a foreign state?

I don’t get what you’re thinking. Explain yourself. grin

Inferiority complex no go kill my people.

What?

When did I say someone was lying?

I thought he was talking about a yoruba script same way you have Nsibidi for efik, ekoi, ibibio and some igbo peoples and aniocha script for the aniocha script.

So where does inferiority complex come into the equation?
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 3:36pm On Aug 25, 2021
scholes0:


I was the one you quoted, and what I said was that both oral literature of we the people involved as well as the earliest written records from the European explorers point towards ife. I didn't say Africans recorded their history in print or writing. And TAAO's reply gave a very good example of such written sources with an additional layer of orally documented reportage.
Don't conflate the points.

I misunderstood what you said I thought you were talking of African written records
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 3:37pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
Abohboy appears to be another version of the Binis — but a refined version.

Ife in the whole of sub Saharan Africa had a monopoly of glass manufacturing circa the 1100s

Archaeological excavations at Igbo-Olokun alongside chemical analysis of the finds have submitted this in recent years.

Move Abohboy!

You're acting like I don't know these


The glass manufacturing done in Ife has been found in archaelogical digs as far as Gao in Mali and Nri in Igbo Land it was even traded with the Asante of Ghana

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:39pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:


You're acting like I don't know these


The glass manufacturing done in Ife has been found in archaelogical digs as far as Gao in Mali and Nri in Igbo Land it was even traded with the Asante of Ghana
False!

There is no evidence of glass manufacture anywhere else in sub Saharan Africa — except Ife.

That’s the difference — the manufacture of primary glass from start.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by YungMillionaire: 3:44pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
You just they spill truth left right and center.Choi.

Tao, I am just tired of their lies, stupidity and self-defeating strategy. They are pathetic to say the least.

6 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:45pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
What?

When did I say someone was lying?

I thought he was talking about a yoruba script same way you have Nsibidi for efik, ekoi, ibibio and some igbo peoples and aniocha script for the aniocha script.
Since you had “thought,” your comment below is not necessary then. I wasn’t the one who thought.

My reaction was based on what you “thought”. As such my comment is justified.

So where does inferiority complex come into the equation?

Having said that, you appear now at this point to be in agreement with those West-African groups who point to Ife as the first among the five greatest.

Got it! We are on the same page on that then.
——————
Moving on from that to what seem to be your actual intended question:

Are you asking whether (or not) Yorubas in ancient or classical times have some form of indigenous scripts?

6 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 3:48pm On Aug 25, 2021
YungMillionaire:
Tao, I am just tired of their lies, stupidity and self-defeating strategy. They are pathetic to say the least.
Everytime I see their comments, I pity them first prior to debunking their comments.

Yes, I understand that being a minority must be tough in a country like Nigeria, but I think they can do better.

They must, as a matter of urgency, stop seeing cheap propaganda as the way forward.

My two cents.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 3:54pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
False!

There is no evidence of glass manufacture anywhere else sub Saharan Africa — except Ife.

That’s the difference — the manufacture of primary glass from start.

It's not quite clear to me what you're objecting to because what he said is true. Perhaps you read his comment in a hurry and didn't quite understand what he was saying. Beads made at Ife have turned up in digs from Igbo-Ukwu in the east to beyond Gao in the west.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 4:03pm On Aug 25, 2021
RedboneSmith:
It's not quite clear to me what you're objecting to because what he said is true. Perhaps you read his comment in a hurry and didn't quite understand what he was saying. Beads made at Ife have turned up in digs from Igbo-Ukwu in the east to beyond Gao in the weat.
Oh, thanks. Now I see the actual point he was making.

I had thought he was denying the fact that Ife had the monopoly of primary glass manufacture. My bad.

Cc: Abohboy.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 4:09pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
False!

There is no evidence of glass manufacture anywhere else sub Saharan Africa — except Ife.

That’s the difference — the manufacture of primary glass from start.
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 4:10pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
Since you had “thought,” your comment below is not necessary then. I wasn’t the one who thought.

My reaction was based on what you “thought”. As such my comment is justified.



Having said that, you appear now at this point to be in agreement with those West-African groups who point to Ife as the first among the five greatest.

Got it! We are on the same page on that then.
——————
Moving on from that to what seem to be your actual intended question:

Are you asking whether (or not) Yorubas in ancient or classical times have some form of indigenous scripts?




Yes that is my question
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 4:13pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
It's as if you don't understand english they exported it to these places
Lol. I obviously understand English.

The fact that you’ve been replying without any trouble all along proves that.

Your best bet would have been that I misread or mis-understood what you wrote.

In any case, my bad. I misread what you had written.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by kjhova(m): 4:13pm On Aug 25, 2021
Once the sole aim of intellectual discuss on history dissolves to the level of "my history/culture is superior to yours", such discuss has left the realm of intellect and facts and now brazenly wear the toga of ignorance, lies and idiocy.

The above is what I notice everytime young Africans discuss history. It's almost as if we have been so deprived of any meaningful past to take pride in such that the only past that interests us is one that shows our progenitors on top of the world!

History isn't there to make you happy. It's there to tell you what happened, to guide your future.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 4:25pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
Yes that is my question
Yes the Yorubas in olden times had some indigenous script.

Are the characters of the script completely intact till date? No!

Are the characters of the script all decipherable today? The best that exists are guesses.

But is there any evidence today that shows definitely that they did have an indigenous script, and hence a form of writing? Yes!

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 4:32pm On Aug 25, 2021
TAO12:
Yes the Yorubas in olden times had some indigenous script.

Are the characters of the script completely intact till date? No!

Are the characters of the script all decipherable today? The best that exists are guesses.

But is there any evidence today that shows definitely that they did have an indigenous script, and hence a form of writing? Yes!

Can you provide some images of these please the closest example i've seen is the trident on oranmiyan's staff
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 4:59pm On Aug 25, 2021
niggadee:
Oba of benin na yoruba man you benin people too stubborn like goat do your calculation yoruba population big pass una and yoruba civilised benin empire

How can you vomit this trash with your mouth

Was oduduwa a Yoruba man? If he is not how can his son oromiyon be a Yoruba man,
For the record oduduwa was an Edo man who ran to IFE for safety

This post came as a result of several post by some Yoruba stories teller trying to belittle others especially Benin’s
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 5:04pm On Aug 25, 2021
This image some of you claim is olokun face some said is the face of past Ooni.
Please you people should be specific an image you people claim was dug from the earth 1938 with no origin how did you know what it represents instead you people started guess work, why not come and ask the Benin people am sure they will tell you

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 5:06pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
Can you provide some images of these please the closest example i've seen is the trident on oranmiyan's staff
The trident on the Opa-Oranmiyan doesn’t appear as a character of a script.

The characters that I’m referring to are engravings or carvings on the obelisk itself, on the same side as the trident — but not the trident.

Notice, in the first screenshot (of the Opa-Oranmiyan) that the nails driven into the obelisk are such that they all form the shape of a devils’s fork — aka “trident”.

However, the characters of the script are the two (2) engravings on the obelisk which is zoomed out on the right hand side as highlighted.

Another example is the image of some (if not all) of the symbols painted at the Orisa Akiri temple at Ife as shown in the second attachment below.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 5:11pm On Aug 25, 2021
mr1759:
[s]How can you vomit this trash with your mouth

Was oduduwa a Yoruba man? If he is not how can his son oromiyon be a Yoruba man,
For the record oduduwa was an Edo man who ran to IFE for safety

This post came as a result of several post by some Yoruba stories teller trying to belittle others especially Benin’s[/s]
https://www.nairaland.com/6711815/olu-warri-coronation-tsola-emiko/5#105083866

https://www.nairaland.com/6711815/olu-warri-coronation-tsola-emiko/5#105083872

Cc: niggadee

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 5:11pm On Aug 25, 2021
mr1759:
[s]This image some of you claim is olokun face some said is the face of past Ooni.
Please you people should be specific an image you people claim was dug from the earth 1938 with no origin how did you know what it represents instead you people started guess work, why not come and ask the Benin people am sure they will tell you[/s]
https://www.nairaland.com/6717215/benin-own-ife-bronze#105148654

3 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Nobody: 6:10pm On Aug 25, 2021
YungMillionaire:
Reading through these posts I feel really embarrassed for the way the Bini revisionists go about their propaganda. It's pathetic and stupid. In Delta we have a lot of regard for Bini. But what I see on social media (not just Nairaland but twitter, tiktok etc.) makes me sad. How can you represent Bini by spreading easily debunkable lies all over the internet? This is weak and smacks of low self esteem. If you must lie at least do your homework to make sure that the lies are spurious enough to convince a few of the neutrals. Just like the ridiculous lie that turned Oduduwa an Ife man to a Bini man, these blatant lies will continue to expose you guys as incompetent propagandists. The reason some Binis desire to cut their obvious link with Yorubas is jealousy. They are jealous because Yoruba culture is very dominant. But if they are smart, they would preserve the link and use their strong Yoruba heritage to expand Bini influence (Yes I said it. Bini royalty was founded by Ife. The same way Itsekiri royalty was founded by Bini. Infact the only reason Itsekiri accepted a Bini prince was because it was understood that Bini royalty is Yoruba). But they won't do this because for some reason they foolishly think the only way to expand Bini influence is to destroy Yoruba heritage (an impossible task. How can you use weak online propaganda to destroy something centuries of slave trade and slavery could not destroy?). This is one of the dumbest strategies I have ever seen in my life. I know it is tough to be a minority tribe but stupidity will not give you relevance. Most of the places you go outside of Nigeria the only two tribes most people know are Yoruba and Igbo. If you go to France and say 'Bini' they think you are talking of Benin Republic. If you travel to South America the ONLY Nigerian words that ring a bell is Yoruba, Ife, and the names of the Yoruba dieties. So for those minority tribes in the South who have strong connections with Yorubas or Igbos why not take advantage of this connection rather than fight it? If I go to Brazil, Cuba, Colombia etc. as an Itsekiri man why shouldn't I emphasize my Yoruba heritage and still educate about my unique Itsekiri experience? Why shouldn't a Bini man do the same? Why lie to deny yourself of a rich cultural experience? Stupidity is a disease. It renders its victim blind to reality and wisdom. I weep for stupid people. There is no hope for them in this life.
You are very smart.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by olawalepopoola: 8:52pm On Aug 25, 2021
No matter how we twist history, the truth will always prevail. Recent crowning of the Only of Warri says it all. The Itsekiris wanted to deny the new King his ancestral throne and right because his mother is Yoruba. The Yoruba monarch including the Balogun of Ibadanland and representative of the Ooni were at the meeting where they wanted to make a final declaration to discredit the new Olu of Warri. At the meeting the Yoruba monarch stated categorically that Itsekiris are Yorubas and nothing can change that. All the elders of Itsekiri present couldn't raise a voice against that. That was how the new Olu of Warri was crowned.
IT IS HIGH WE BEGIN TO TEACH HISTORY IN OUR PRIMARY SCHOOLS. SO IMPORTANT

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