Christistruth03:



It was the Alaafin of Oyo that handed Badagry to the British and definitely not Benin

The Oyo Army was still operating in the Badagry Area even after the British Occupied Lagos


https://isaacsamuel.substack.com/p/empire-building-and-government-in

There is no date in your write up that exceed 1800.


As at the time, the british arrived, there was no Oyo empire, Oyo empire fell in 1830. Before the 1830 proper, it's influence on Badagry must have been nominal or no longer there. That is why Lander who was on ground in Badagry in the year 1830, observed that the body of the late chief of that town was taken to Benin and not to Oyo. A ritual that emphasizes and recognizes the suzerainty of a bigger entity


The british came to Lagos for the first time in 1851, there is no date in your write up that exceeded 1800. As at 1851, Oyo empire has since collapsed

That of Lander is at least 30 years more recent than what you have, I think it is better for us to work with that



The succession dispute to the throne of Lagos and the british conquest and occupation of Lagos by Adekoya preye

department of history and international studies
Benson Idahosa University

Adele seem to have been anxious to strengthen his own claim to the throne by obtaining confirmation by the suzerain of Lagos, the king of Benin

Kosoko was called to a meeting on the Southern tip of the Lagos Island. however he rejected the offer of friendship by the british and declined to sign the treaty Using the ingenious argument that Lagos was under Benin and the Oba of Benin should be persuaded to sign the treaty on his behalf


Building on that of Lagos

The products of the blacksmith guilds were also means by which the Oba

determined the loyalty or otherwise of a vassal states to Benin kingdom. They were

also the means by which the Oba legitimized the rulers in the vassal states. The

“emblem of authority” or “staff of office” sent by Oba Osemwende (c.1816) to king

Akintoye of Lagos in the course of the 1850s symbolized the Oba’s hegemony over

Lagos and the legitimization of the Akintoye’s reign over his people. The acceptance

of this emblem implied the King of Lagos’ recognition of the over-lordship of the
Oba of Benin; with the obligation of annual tributes to Benin (A.F.C. Ryder, 1977,
p.14). Benin and the Europeans 1450 to 1897

I think that of Lagos is sealed, Benin handed over Lagos to the British directly.

Let come over to Badagry.

As at the time the British came around, Oyo already fell, this is what Lander Observed about Badagry paying Obeisance to Benin

Lander who visited Badagry in 1830 reported that the corpse of the late chief of that town had been taken to Benin

Ologbo147:
Lander, who visited Badagry in 1830, reported that the corpse of the late chief of that town had been sent to Benin

As is quite common with some of you, you have misrepresented what you read. Lander did not say that the corpse of the late chief of Badagry was sent to Benin. Go back and reread that chapter. The corpse that was sent to Benin was the corpse of Adooley's father (i.e., Adele's father) who was the king of Lagos, not Badagry. Lagos was under Benin hegemony at the time, so this is not a big reveal.

Adele himself was in exile in Badagry at the time of Lander's visit, following a succession tussle with his brothers in Lagos. Badagry people had welcomed him and made him their ruler. It was here in Badagry that Lander met him, and he told Lander about his father, the late king of Lagos whose headless body was sent for burial in Benin. But you have mixed things up to say that it was a chief of Badagry whose remains were sent to Benin.

There's no record of Badagry being under Benin hegemony. What the sources say is that it was under Oyo hegemony, at least in the late 18th century and possibly later.

RedboneSmith:


As is quite common with some of you, you have misrepresented what you read. Lander did not say that the corpse of the late chief of Badagry was sent to Benin. Go back and reread that chapter. The corpse that was sent to Benin was the corpse of Adooley's father (i.e., Adele's father) who was the king of Lagos, not Badagry. Lagos was under Benin hegemony at the time, so this is not a big reveal.

Adele himself was in exile in Badagry at the time of Lander's visit, following a succession tussle with his brothers in Lagos. Badagry people had welcomed him and made him their ruler. It was here in Badagry that Lander met him, and he told Lander about his father, the late king of Lagos whose headless body was sent for burial in Benin. But you have mixed things up to say that it was a chief of Badagry whose remains were sent to Benin.

There's no record of Badagry being under Benin hegemony. What the sources say is that it was under Oyo hegemony, at least in the late 18th century and possibly later.

Oh you missed it here, you should have noticed that they are not the same document. You are the one that misread.

The documents I used in substantiating my Benin claim to Badagry was the Benin Kingdom and the Edo speaking people of southwestern Nigeria by R.E Bradbury

Lander who visited Badagry in 1830 reported that the corpse of the late chief of that town (Badagry town) has been sent to Benin and Landolphe reported that Wydah was tributary to Benin in his day

We can only infer that that was what he meant with this statement

On the west, Benin rule undoubtedly extended, at least from the 16th century, to Lagos,Badagry and Wydah

And he came below to substantiate it with this fact(The eye witness account at his disposal, that is what is there!

Lander who visited Badagry in 1830 reported that the corpse of the late chief of that town (Badagry town) has been sent to Benin and Landolphe reported that Wydah was tributary to Benin in his day

Ologbo147:
Oh you missed it here, you should have noticed that they are not the same document. You are the one that misread.

The documents I used in substantiating my Benin claim to Badagry was the Benin Kingdom and the Edo speaking people of southwestern Nigeria by R.E Bradbury

Lander who visited Badagry in 1830 reported that the corpse of the late chief of that town (Badagry town) has been sent to Benin and Landolphe reported that Wydah was tributary to Benin in his day

We can only infer that that was what he meant with this statement

On the west, Benin rule undoubtedly extended, at least from the 16th century, to Lagos,Badagry and Wydah

And he came below to substantiate it with this fact(The eye witness account at his disposal, that is what is there!

Lander who visited Badagry in 1830 reported that the corpse of the late chief of that town (Badagry town) has been sent to Benin and Landolphe reported that Wydah was tributary to Benin in his day

Bradbury was writing in the 1950s and he was in error. He either didn't read the text firsthand or be totally misunderstood it. I advise you to go to the direct source which is Lander's journal itself.

And there's no way Benin could have ruled Badagry in the 16th century (as that Bradbury screenshot claims) when the town didn't even exist then. Badagry was founded in the 18th century.

I do not argue that Benin wielded some influence in the Dahomey area in the 16th century, as there are contemporary accounts that allude to that. There are no contemporary accounts of political influence on Badagry.

RedboneSmith:


Bradbury was writing in the 1950s and he was in error. He either didn't read the text firsthand or be totally misunderstood it. I advise you to go to the direct source which is Lander's journal itself.

And there's no way Benin could have ruled Badagry in the 16th century when the town didn't even exist then. Badagry was founded in the 18th century.

I do not argue that Benin wielded some influence in the Dahomey area in the 16th century, as there are contemporary accounts that allude to that. There are no contemporary accounts of political influence on Badagry.

he did not say in the 16th century, he said from, and he listed three towns, from this time which is the 16th century, these three towns, irrespective of when they were founded up till 1897, at one point or the other came under the Benin hegemony, and she came under Benin hegemony going by Lander's account just after the fall of Oyo

Ologbo147:
he did not say in the 16th century, he said from, and he listed three towns, from this time which is the 16th century, these three towns, irrespective of when they were founded up till 1897, at one point or the other came under the Benin hegemony, and she came under Benin hegemony going by Lander's account just after the fall of Oyo

You're now playing with English. If someone says Obasanjo ruled from 1999 to 2007, it doesn't mean any year after 1999 but before 2007. It doesn't he could have started ruling in 2004. English is my forte. Let's not play that. Bradbury clearly didn't know Badagry didn't exist in the 16th century. When he wrote in the 1950s, most of the primary/contemporary sources on African history (especially those written in languages other than English) hadn't been well-studied.

On the Lander matter, I repeat, Lander NEVER said Badagry was under Benin. Lander met Adele, who was a Lagos prince, in Badagry. (He recorded his name as Adooley.) Adele had fled to Badagry with the skull of his late father, Ologun Kutere, who was the king of Lagos. Ologun's headless body had been taken to Benin for burial, but the skull was buried in Lagos. Adele exhumed the skull and took it with him to Badagry. This was the burial that Lander referred to. Not the burial of a king of Badagry.

Let me see if I can share Lander's journal from my drive. Posting screenshots won't be useful. You need to read the entire section on Badagry (from about page 6 or so) to understand what was being reported by him.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eiE-PfiEsDr2E5Wn7eAoKKfEOR5KF06-/view?usp=sharing

Just realized you probably won't be able to access my drive, even with the link.

I'm hoping this screenshot from Lander would be enough. The entire thing would have provided more context.

RedboneSmith:


You're now playing with English. If someone says Obasanjo ruled from 1999 to 2007, it doesn't mean any year after 1999 but before 2007. It doesn't he could have started ruling in 2004. English is my forte. Let's not play that. Bradbury clearly didn't know Badagry didn't exist in the 16th century. When he wrote in the 1950s, most of the primary/contemporary sources on African history (especially those written in languages other than English) hadn't been well-studied.

On the Lander matter, I repeat, Lander NEVER said Badagry was under Benin. Lander met Adele, who was a Lagos prince, in Badagry. (He recorded his name as Adooley.) Adele had fled to Badagry with the skull of his late father, Ologun Kutere, who was the king of Lagos. Ologun's headless body had been taken to Benin for burial, but the skull was buried in Lagos. Adele exhumed the skull and took it with him to Badagry. This was the burial that Lander referred to. Not the burial of a king of Badagry.

Let me see if I can share Lander's journal from my drive. Posting screenshots won't be useful. You need to read the entire section on Badagry (from about page 6 or so) to understand what was being reported by him.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eiE-PfiEsDr2E5Wn7eAoKKfEOR5KF06-/view?usp=sharing

I have very strong foundation in English, I am not holding brief for Badagry anymore owing to the fact that you have the documents directly

that's not a perfect example

This is

If we say Obasanjo at least from 1999 when he became president desolated Odi town, Zaki Ibiam, does that mean it is that very 1999 it happened

How can I access the documents, I have clicked on it, it is showing you have to grant me access

RedboneSmith:
Just realized you probably won't be able to access my drive, even with the link.

I'm hoping this screenshot from Lander would be enough. The entire thing would have provided more context.

Is there anyway you can send the entire text to my email, I would be so glad you did, if you have other books too, Benin studies by Bradbury, Benin mission by ryder you talked about in your argument on a thread with samuk

Ologbo147:
Is there anyway you can send the entire text to my email, I would be so glad you did, if you have other books too, Benin studies by Bradbury, Benin mission by ryder you talked about in your argument on a thread with samuk

The file is too bulky to be sent via mail. What I can do is see if I can find a link online and then share that one.

Most of the books on Benin that I have including Benin Studies and Benin and the Europeans by Alan Ryder are hard copies.

RedboneSmith:


The file is too bulky to be sent via mail. What I can do is see if I can find a link online and then share that one.

Most of the books on Benin that I have including Benin Studies and Benin and the Europeans by Alan Ryder are hard copies.

oh okay, a link would do. Please help me edit my email out in the previous post you quoted, thank you. RedboneSmith

.

Ologbo147:
There is no date in your write up that exceed 1800.


As at the time, the british arrived, there was no Oyo empire, Oyo empire fell in 1830. Before the 1830 proper, it's influence on Badagry must have been nominal or no longer there. That is why Lander who was on ground in Badagry in the year 1830, observed that the body of the late chief of that town was taken to Benin and not to Oyo. A ritual that emphasizes and recognizes the suzerainty of a bigger entity


The british came to Lagos for the first time in 1851, there is no date in your write up that exceeded 1800. As at 1851, Oyo empire has since collapsed

That of Lander is at least 30 years more recent than what you have, I think it is better for us to work with that



The succession dispute to the throne of Lagos and the british conquest and occupation of Lagos by Adekoya preye

department of history and international studies
Benson Idahosa University

Adele seem to have been anxious to strengthen his own claim to the throne by obtaining confirmation by the suzerain of Lagos, the king of Benin

Kosoko was called to a meeting on the Southern tip of the Lagos Island. however he rejected the offer of friendship by the british and declined to sign the treaty Using the ingenious argument that Lagos was under Benin and the Oba of Benin should be persuaded to sign the treaty on his behalf


Building on that of Lagos

The products of the blacksmith guilds were also means by which the Oba

determined the loyalty or otherwise of a vassal states to Benin kingdom. They were

also the means by which the Oba legitimized the rulers in the vassal states. The

“emblem of authority” or “staff of office” sent by Oba Osemwende (c.1816) to king

Akintoye of Lagos in the course of the 1850s symbolized the Oba’s hegemony over

Lagos and the legitimization of the Akintoye’s reign over his people. The acceptance

of this emblem implied the King of Lagos’ recognition of the over-lordship of the
Oba of Benin; with the obligation of annual tributes to Benin (A.F.C. Ryder, 1977,
p.14). Benin and the Europeans 1450 to 1897

I think that of Lagos is sealed, Benin handed over Lagos to the British directly.

Let come over to Badagry.

As at the time the British came around, Oyo already fell, this is what Lander Observed about Badagry paying Obeisance to Benin

Lander who visited Badagry in 1830 reported that the corpse of the late chief of that town had been taken to Benin

After 1800 when took o er eastern Lagos there is no evidence of the Benin Army Operating anywhere in the Lagos Area

Even in the 1870s the Ibadan Army who were Oyos were still operating in Lagos State

Christistruth03:



After 1800 when took o er eastern Lagos there is no evidence of the Benin Army Operating anywhere in the Lagos Area

Redbonesmith has clarified that of Badagry, it was a mistake from Bradbury himself, but that of Lagos, it was as certain as death, there are more than 1000 proofs to turn to to show that Benin handed over to the British directly

Ologbo147:
Redbonesmith has clarified that of Badagry, it was a mistake from Bradbury himself, but that of Lagos, it was as certain as death, there are more than 1000 proofs to turn to to show that Benin handed over to the British directly

Benin Army gave up on Lagos by 1800

In all major battles in Lagos state in the 1800s Benin was always a no Show even during the Bombardment of Lagos in 1851
The Benin Army didn't turn up

The Ibadan Army who were Oyos were Operating in Lagos State even in 1870s attacking the Ijebus and ,Egba there and still protecting Egbado Areas many Egbado Areas are in the Badagry Local govt from both the Egbas and the Dahomey

It was the French that finally subdued Dahomey

Oba Soji of Porto Novo like the Ibadan was one of the Alaafins subject kings and had always held the west flank of the Ibadan Army against Dahomey but because the British had Bombarded Porto Novo at the same time as Lagos I a Soji signed a treaty with the French disobeying the Alaafin who was in Agreement with the British

Christistruth03:


Benin Army gave up on Lagos by 1800

In all major battles in Lagos state in the 1800s Benin was always a no Show even during the Bombardment if Lagos in 1851

The Ibadan Army who were Oyos were Operating in Lagos State even in 1870s attacking the Ijebus and ,Egba there and still protecting Egbado Areas many Egbado Areas are in the Badagry Local govt

The original place called Lagos was handed over to the British by Benin, I have about two or three proofs in my previous post. Oba Osewmende still sent sceptre of office in the 1850s,


You ve gone on your deflective mode again, we are talking about the town called Eko,

Ologbo147:
The original place called Lagos was handed over to the British by Benin, I have about two or three proofs in my previous post. Oba Osewmende still sent sceptre of office in the 1850s, I am not going beyond this point, I have about two or three proofs in my original post, obviously you did not read it

Many of the claims you've made, when I challenge you to bring proof, you drop them, if I ask you to bring proof for this one now, you will run away

You don't understand Lagos History

By 1834 Lagos was completely independent of Benin

When the Egbas of Abeokuta installed Oba Adele on the throne of Lagos around 1834 Benin Couldn't oppose or do anything

Even if the Benin wanted to help Lagos the Ijebus would have blocked the route to Lagos and attacked them

Not to mention the Ilajes of Ondo State

Christistruth03:


Benin Army gave up on Lagos by 1800

In all major battles in Lagos state in the 1800s Benin was always a no Show even during the Bombardment of Lagos in 1851
The Benin Army didn't turn up

The Ibadan Army who were Oyos were Operating in Lagos State even in 1870s attacking the Ijebus and ,Egba there and still protecting Egbado Areas many Egbado Areas are in the Badagry Local govt from both the Egbas and the Dahomey

It was the French that finally subdued Dahomey

Oba Soji of Porto Novo like the Ibadan was one of the Alaafins subject kings and had always held the west flank of the Ibadan Army against Dahomey but because the British had Bombarded Porto Novo at the same time as Lagos I a Soji signed a treaty with the French disobeying the Alaafin who was in Agreement with the British

All these is to deflect from the main point, we are talking of the town called Eko where the Oba of Lagos sit, all these other claims you made, be rest assured I will ask you proofs for them, when I settle down to read them and the once I am not I. Consonance with I will debunk

Christistruth03:




You don't understand Lagos History

By 1834 Lagos was completely independent of Benin

When the Egbas of Abeokuta installed Oba Adele on the throne of Lagos around 1834 Benin Couldn't oppose or do anything

Even if the Benin wanted to help Lagos the Ijebus would have blocked the route to Lagos and attacked them

Not to mention the Ilajes of Ondo State

I need proofs for this, written materials, I would relish eye witness account the most. If you can't provide any written material then you are the one that Dont understand lagos history

Ologbo147:
I need proofs for this, written materials, I would relish eye witness account the most. If you can't provide any written material then you are the one that Dont understand lagos history

Ologbo147:
All these is to deflect from the main point, we are talking of the town called Eko where the Oba of Lagos sit, all these other claims you made, be rest assured I will ask you proofs for them, when I settle down to read them and the once I am not I. Consonance with I will debunk

It was the Egbas of Abeokuta who installed Oba Adele on the throne of Lagos around 1834

If you know what had befallen Benin by then you will understand why Benin Couldn't do a thing

The Fulani Jihad that had overun Ilorin and Old Oyo were now busy attacking the North of the Benin Kingdom and trying to get to the Sea through that axis

Do you think the Benin cared about what was going on with Lagos when they themselves were at risk of being overun by Jihadhists

[

[quote author=Usenokpevbo post=122052120][/quote]

The Truth always wins

Christistruth03:



It was the Egbas of Abeokuta who installed Oba Adele on the throne of Lagos around 1834

If you know what had befallen Benin by then you will understand why Benin Couldn't do a thing

The Fulani Jihad that had overun Ilorin and Old Oyo were now busy attacking the North of the Benin Kingdom and trying to get to the Sea through that axis

Do you think the Benin cared about what was going on with Lagos when they themselves were at risk of being overun by Jihadhists

do you have any sources to back these points up ? I need to educate myself on it, you think I will take what you have said at face value, my brother you are joking o, I gave you my points, I have given you books to back it up.

Ologbo147:
do you have any sources to back these points up ? I need to educate myself on it, you think I will take what you have said at face value, my brother you are joking o, I gave you my points, I have given you books to back it up.

Chief Sodeke was the leader of Abeokuta

The Egbas supported Adele and Akitoye to get to the throne of Lagos and the Oyos supported Kosoko and his Father Oba Eshilokun

It was at Abeokuta that the Egbas introduced Akitoye to the Missionaries who promised to help him to regain his Lagos throne if he promised to abolish Slavery

That was why Ajayi Crowther met with Queen Victoria and Prince Albert in November of 1851 to Persuade them to send the British Navy to Bombard Lagos and reinstate Oba Akitoye on the throne

Lagos was Bombarded by the British on. the 26 of December 1851 and Akitoye abolished Slavery immediately after he was reinstated on the throne of Lagos

Christistruth03:



It was the Egbas of Abeokuta who installed Oba Adele on the throne of Lagos around 1834

If you know what had befallen Benin by then you will understand why Benin Couldn't do a thing

The Fulani Jihad that had overun Ilorin and Old Oyo were now busy attacking the North of the Benin Kingdom and trying to get to the Sea through that axis

Do you think the Benin cared about what was going on with Lagos when they themselves were at risk of being overun by Jihadhists

Benin successfully repelled the fulani jihadist attacks in the North.

Christistruth03:



Chief Sodeke was the leader of Abeokuta

That was their local affair, usually in an empire especially in the case of Benin, in many cases she was not so concerned about who emerges, so far tribute is brought for her, she was not so bothered about the internal wranglings, but there were two rituals which cemented her overlordship over Lagos

1. Was when kings die in Lagos, their bodies were usually taken back to Benin,

2. When they are coronated, Emblems of authority are usually sent from Benin to Lagos to establish the lordship of Benin over Lagos

We can see that in these excerpts play out,

Ologbo147:
That was their local affair, usually in an empire especially in the case of Benin, in many cases she was not so concerned about who emerges, so far tribute is brought for her, she was not so bothered about the internal wranglings, but there were two rituals which cemented her overlordship over Lagos

1. Was when kings die in Lagos, their bodies were usually taken back to Benin,

2. When they are coronated, Emblems of authority are usually sent from Benin to Lagos to establish the lordship of Benin over Lagos

We can see that in these excerpts play out,

Benin didn't operate in Lagos anymore it was busy defending itself from Jihadhists in the North of the Benin Kingdom and to worsen the matter Ogedengbe and the Ekiti Parapo also invaded the Benin Kingdom from the Northwest

Benin

And no it wasn't a Local affair because it was the Egba Christians that finally brrought the British Navy to Lagos to settle the matter and reinstate Oba Akitoye whose mother was also an Abeokuta woman on the Lagos throne

Slavery was immediately abolished in Lagos

Meanwhile the Oyos still had Kosoko:s back


Ajayi Crowther met with Queen Victoria and Prince Albert in Windsor castle in November of 1851 over the matter

Lagos was Bombarded by the British Navy a month later and Akitoye was reinstated on the throne of Lagos by the British and with the full support of the Egbas

It was the Egbas that Persuaded the British to attack Lagos

It was definitely not a local affair

Christistruth03:



After 1800 when took o er eastern Lagos there is no evidence of the Benin Army Operating anywhere in the Lagos Area

Even in the 1870s the Ibadan Army who were Oyos were still operating in Lagos State

I am in a calm place where I can reply you properly,

If there were Benin army or not, that is not within the scope of our discussion, I would like to see written materials of the Ibadan army operating in Lagos in the late 19th century

What we can take from the discussion is that as late as 1850s, the Oba of Benin still sent emblems of authority to Oba Akintoye of Lagos to symbolize his his hegemony over Lagos


The products of the blacksmith guilds were also means by which the Oba
determined the loyalty or otherwise of a vassal states to Benin kingdom. They were
also the means by which the Oba legitimized the rulers in the vassal states. The
“emblem of authority” or “staff of office” sent by Oba Osemwende (c.1816) to king
Akintoye of Lagos in the course of the 1850s symbolized the Oba’s hegemony over
Lagos and the legitimization of the Akintoye’s reign over his people. The acceptance
of this emblem implied the King of Lagos’ recognition of the over-lordship of the
Oba of Benin; with the obligation of annual tributes to Benin (A.F.C. Ryder, 1977,
p.14). Benin and the Europeans 1485 - 1897

This point is consolidated by this statement from this material


Adele seem to have been anxious to strengthen his own claim to the throne by obtaining confirmation by the suzerain of Lagos, the king of Benin

We can see that in the second write up,

Kosoko admitted that the Oba of Benin was the suzerain of Lagos

Kosoko was called to a meeting on the Southern tip of the Lagos Island. however he rejected the offer of friendship by the british and declined to sign the treaty Using the ingenious argument that Lagos was under Benin and the Oba of Benin should be persuaded to sign the treaty on his behalf

Christistruth03:


Benin Army gave up on Lagos by 1800

In all major battles in Lagos state in the 1800s Benin was always a no Show even during the Bombardment of Lagos in 1851
The Benin Army didn't turn up

The Ibadan Army who were Oyos were Operating in Lagos State even in 1870s attacking the Ijebus and ,Egba there and still protecting Egbado Areas many Egbado Areas are in the Badagry Local govt from both the Egbas and the Dahomey

It was the French that finally subdued Dahomey

Oba Soji of Porto Novo like the Ibadan was one of the Alaafins subject kings and had always held the west flank of the Ibadan Army against Dahomey but because the British had Bombarded Porto Novo at the same time as Lagos I a Soji signed a treaty with the French disobeying the Alaafin who was in Agreement with the British

These are not within our scope of discussion, was Lagos under Benin up till 1850s, yes

Christistruth03:




You don't understand Lagos History

By 1834 Lagos was completely independent of Benin

When the Egbas of Abeokuta installed Oba Adele on the throne of Lagos around 1834 Benin Couldn't oppose or do anything

Even if the Benin wanted to help Lagos the Ijebus would have blocked the route to Lagos and attacked them

Not to mention the Ilajes of Ondo State

you seem sincerely Ignorant of lagos history, other than your opinions and emotions, 70% of the claims I have asked you proof for, you've dropped them, who is the clown here? You seem to be

That is a lie, the Oba of Benin sent emblems of office to establish his lordship over Lagos as early as 1850

In the 1834, you talked about, Adele and his brothers were struggling to take their father's body to Benin in order to obtain confirmation from the throne going by the except above, I will still post it again

Emblems were still sent in 1850s, I don't that would have been the case if Bini's influence was no longer in lagos

The products of the blacksmith guilds were also means by which the Oba
determined the loyalty or otherwise of a vassal states to Benin kingdom. They were
also the means by which the Oba legitimized the rulers in the vassal states. The
“emblem of authority” or “staff of office” sent by Oba Osemwende (c.1816) to king
Akintoye of Lagos in the course of the 1850s symbolized the Oba’s hegemony over
Lagos and the legitimization of the Akintoye’s reign over his people. The acceptance
of this emblem implied the King of Lagos’ recognition of the over-lordship of the
Oba of Benin; with the obligation of annual tributes to Benin (A.F.C. Ryder, 1977,
p.14). Benin and the Europeans 1485 - 1897


It did not happen, even if should not be the case here

Ologbo147:
These are not within our scope of discussion, was Lagos under Benin up till 1850s, yes

No it Wasn't

Any relationship was just one of Courtesy

What was Benin doing while the Egbas were installing Oba Adele on the throne

Even Oba Kosoko it was the Oyos that were his allies because he was a Slave Merchant and the Oyos were his biggest Supplers


Wo I am even in a more Cooler and Confident place than you

We understand the History because our Families and ancestors participated in the Conflicts since majority of the enslaved Captives of the Fulani Jihad passed through
Ilorin,Ibadan Oyo Slave route some of the female Captives even became our Maternal Ancestors because the route Tolls were paid by dashing out some of the Slaves and the Pretty ones ended up as wives if the Powerful Oyo Chiefs

Many Oyo have Hausa blood because of the female Jihad Captives that were paid as road duties and taxes before the Slaves reached the coast

Christistruth03:



No it Wasn't
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Any relationship was just one of Courtesy

What was Benin doing while the Egbas were installing Oba Adele on the throne

Even Oba Kosoko it w as the Oyos that were his allies

In an Empire, vassals were usually allowed to do their own thing but there are some certain rituals which cement those vassals to the centre.Bini never really participated in who emerges, but one thing is certain,they come to Benin for confirmation

Adele seem to have been anxious to strengthen his own claim to the throne by obtaining confirmation by the suzerain of Lagos, the king of Benin

Why will they come to Benin if they were not tied to her, they did not take the dead body to oyo, they did not go to collect emblems from Oyo and you say Lagos was not a vassal, do you even understand the role of an emperor

Even as late as the 1850s, Oba kosoko still confesses that Benin was suzerain over Lagos,not Oyo not Egba

Kosoko was called to a meeting on the Southern tip of the Lagos Island. however he rejected the offer of friendship by the british and declined to sign the treaty Using the ingenious argument that Lagos was under Benin and the Oba of Benin should be persuaded to sign the treaty on his behalf

This is Ryder's book

[b]The products of the blacksmith guilds were also means by which the Oba
determined the loyalty or otherwise of a vassal states to Benin kingdom. They were
also the means by which the Oba legitimized the rulers in the vassal states. The
“emblem of authority” or “staff of office” sent by Oba Osemwende (c.1816) to king
Akintoye of Lagos in the course of the 1850s symbolized the Oba’s hegemony over
Lagos and the legitimization of the Akintoye’s reign over his people. The acceptance
of this emblem implied the King of Lagos’ recognition of the over-lordship of the
Oba of Benin; with the obligation of annual tributes to Benin (A.F.C. Ryder, 1977,
p.14). Benin and the Europeans 1485 - 1897
[/b]