When Allah through Muhammad first instructed Muslims to start fasting, the aim was to teach them self restraint for food and other pleasures just like the Christians.

“O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint”
-Quran 2:183

At that time, Muslims were allowed to eat, drink and have sexual intercourse only until the `Isha' (Night) prayer, unless one sleeps before the `Isha' prayer. Those who slept before `Isha' or offered the `Isha' prayer, were not allowed to drink, eat or sexual intercourse sex until the next night. The Muslims found that to be difficult for them.

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2968
Narrated Al-Bara bin 'Azib:
"It was the custom among the Companions of Muhammad (ﷺ), that if any of them was fasting and the food was presented but he had slept before eating, he would not eat that night, nor the following day until the evening. Qais bin Sirmah Al-Ansari fasted and came to his wife at the time of Iftar, and said to her: 'No, but I will go and bring something for you.' He worked during the day, so his eyes (sleep) overcame him. Then his wife came, and when she saw him she said: 'You shall be disappointed.' About the middle of the next day he fainted. That was mentioned to the Prophet (ﷺ), so this Ayah was revealed: 'It is made lawful for you to have sexual relations with your women on the night of the fasts. So they were very happy about that. 'And eat and drink until the white thread (light) of dawn appears distinct to you from the black thread (of night) (2:187)'"

Allah changed his words in Quran 2:187 by saying that you dont need to restrain yourself during Ramadan month as earlier stated but you can now approach (have intercourse with ) your wives
And you can eat suhur and that brought the distinction in your fast, and that was how Muslims chose a easy fasting method of eating breakfast.

Which is different from the initial one:

Sunan an-Nasa'i 2166
It was narrated that 'Amr bin Al-As said:
"The Messenger of Allah said: ' The difference between our fasting and the fasting of the people of the Book, is eating Sahur."'

In order to make sure that the breakfast is really breakfast, it’s usually taken just before the early morning fasting (Fajr) which is usually around 5:30 am

Sahih al-Bukhari 576
Narrated Qatada:
Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet (ﷺ) and Zaid bin Thabit took the 'Suhur' together and after finishing the meal, the Prophet (ﷺ) stood up and prayed (Fajr prayer)." I asked Anas, "How long was the interval between finishing their 'Suhur' and starting the prayer?" He replied, "The interval between the two was just sufficient to recite fifty 'Ayat." (Verses of the Qur'an).

This is just another example of how Allah through Muhammad changed their revelation at will in a term called Abrogation in which a recent revelation cancels the earlier one, yet they will lie that Allah doesn’t change his words

Allah cancelled the earlier revelation on fasting to a new one

This is the earlier revelation:

“O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint”
-Quran 2:183

Here Allah said that self restraint was the reason while fasting was prescribed for those before Muslims: the Jews and the Christians who had been fasting without eating breakfast for hundreds of years but just for a few years that Muslims tried it and Muhammad feared that his followers may not be able to comply like the Jews and the Christians, Allah through Muhammad changed the rule and revealed an amended law: no more restraints on food and sexual intercourse

“Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.”
-Quran 2:187

So I laugh at the folly of Muslims who claim that the Bible has old and New Testaments


But refuse to comment on frequent change of revelations in the Quran.


To have an idea of the number of times these changes were made in the Quran, just search for abrogated verses of the Quran on google and you’ll be amazed by what you will see.


Most of the few good verses in the Quran were revealed when Muhammad was powerless and had few followers, the moment he became a warlord, he changed all the good verses to the cruel one and hence the earlier good verses became obsolete.


So when Muslims quote those verses for you today, know that they are no longer valid!

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Thatfairguy1 I’m teaching you Tafsir. Come and learn!

Realismailakabir I’m awaiting your response

advocatejare:
Realismailakabir I’m awaiting your response

It seems Christians are now so versed in teaching Muslims their religion.

This is true only because, Islam hides a lot of things from their adherents

TenQ:

It seems Christians are now so versed in teaching Muslims their religion.

This is true only because, Islam hides a lot of things from their adherents

Look at a future thief also talking of teaching people anything… Hahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣

LegalWolf:

Look at a future thief also talking of teaching people anything… Hahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣

It would be interesting to see your counter

Dtruthspeaker:


It would be interesting to see your counter

Thank you sir for your comment. But counter to what exactly?

Cc: potential thief TenQ

LegalWolf:


Thank you sir for your comment. But counter to what exactly?

Cc: potential thief TenQ

The op.

Dtruthspeaker:


The op.

Good. What possible explanation would I give that you’ll find acceptable?

Cc: potential thief TenQ

LegalWolf:


Good. What possible explanation would I give that you’ll find acceptable?

Cc: potential thief TenQ

Any reasonable and true explanation.

Dtruthspeaker:


Any reasonable and true explanation.

Excellent!

So tell us just one strand of Quranic or extra - Quranic reference before Q2: 183 - 187 which mandates Muslims not to have sexual relations at the night of Ramadan?

Just to note: I don’t find the OP that intelligent. But the crux of the OP’s argument is that there’s is a contradiction between earlier Islamic injunction on fasting and later injunction (reference to Q and Hadith in the OP). So it’ll be helpful if you could answer my question.

Cc: potential thief TenQ

LegalWolf:


Excellent!

So tell us just one strand of Quranic or extra - Quranic reference before Q2: 183 - 187 which mandates Muslims not to have sexual relations at the night of Ramadan?

Just to note: I don’t find the OP that intelligent. But the crux of the OP’s argument is that there’s is a contradiction between earlier Islamic injunction on fasting and later injunction (reference to Q and Hadith in the OP). So it’ll be helpful if you could answer my question.

Cc: potential thief TenQ

I don't know the Koran o, so you can not lay on me o.

I am just an innocent bystander looking at what is presented, and in the interest of fair hearing I need the opponent to lay the other side.

So, I don't know anything, I just know that assertions would have their own counter if any.

Dtruthspeaker:


I don't know the Koran o, so you can not lay on me o.

I am just an innocent bystander looking at what is presented, and in the interest of fair hearing I need the opponent to lay the other side.

So, I don't know anything, I just know that assertions would have their own counter if any.

Oh that’s fine brother. My own style of explanation is the “Socratic method”. Here, I’ll teach you by asking questions and not dishing out answers for you. That is scientifically proven to be more engaging and yields better result.

Since you’re an innocent bystander, I’ll just advice that you should keep watching. Let the OP keep hallucinating. I hope that helps.

Cc: future thief TenQ

TenQ:

It seems Christians are now so versed in teaching Muslims their religion.

This is true only because, Islam hides a lot of things from their adherents

The only thing many of them know in that religion is how to recite Al-Fatiha

Dtruthspeaker:


Any reasonable and true explanation.

He can’t give what he doesn’t have.

Muslims will do anything including telling lies to defend their religion. It’s called Taqiyya

He wants to lie to you that Quran 2:183 was not abrogated by Quran 2:187 because he’s ashamed of instability of Allah who they believe was the one who revealed the Quran through a third party called Jibreel, but the same Allah couldn’t keep to his words, he was always changing them

Check this link below to read the Tafsir on that Quranic verse I cited:
https://www.alim.org/quran/tafsir/ibn-kathir/surah/2/187/

advocatejare:

The only thing many of them know in that religion is how to recite Al-Fatiha

I discovered that it is more difficult preaching to a non educated Muslim. His life is all about mindlessly performing a religion he knows practically nothing about.

Most of them never read by themselves a single hadith.

Dtruthspeaker:


Any reasonable and true explanation.

LegalWolf is as predictable as the sun with respect to answering Islamic questions.

He would ramble about every other things rather than address the question.

Check your next ten posts with him: is the question answered?

I can bet the answer is a big FAT No!

TenQ:

LegalWolf is as predictable as the sun with respect to answering Islamic questions.

He would ramble about every other things rather than address the question.

Check your next ten posts with him: is the question answered?

I can bet the answer is a big FAT No!

Lol, I’m quite predictable because I’m coherent and sane. It’s only a lunatic that is unpredictable and incoherent. Lol!

Cc: potential thief TenQ

LegalWolf:


Lol, I’m quite predictable because I’m coherent and sane. It’s only a lunatic that is unpredictable and incoherent. Lol!

Cc: potential thief TenQ

The context was defined my dear!
Predictable in avoidance of answering direct questions

TenQ:

The context was defined my dear!
Predictable in avoidance of answering direct questions

LOL! Potential thief that is unpredictable

TenQ:

LegalWolf is as predictable as the sun with respect to answering Islamic questions.

He would ramble about every other things rather than address the question.

Check your next ten posts with him: is the question answered?

I can bet the answer is a big FAT No!

i would see all.

LegalWolf:


LOL! Potential thief that is unpredictable

Thanks for at least accepting who you are!
LOL!

TenQ:

I discovered that it is more difficult preaching to a non educated Muslim. His life is all about mindlessly performing a religion he knows practically nothing about.

Most of them never read by themselves a single hadith.

Just like programmed zombies. If only they can read with an open mind, they will be liberated!

TenQ:

Thanks for at least accepting who you are!
LOL!

Unapologetically predictable! But when would you start wearing your toga of a future thief? Ehn

LOL!

cc: Potential thief TenQ

advocatejare:

He can’t give what he doesn’t have...

let me see it too.

Dtruthspeaker:


let me see it too.

Just google “Abrogated verses of the Quran “

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur%27an

LegalWolf:


Oh that’s fine brother. My own style of explanation is the “Socratic method”. Here, I’ll teach you by asking questions and not dishing out answers for you. That is scientifically proven to be more engaging and yields better result..

Socrates was a teacher meaning he could utilise any style of disseminating his information

But right now, you are come to defend an allegation made against your people, so, you are bound by the burden of proof to present a counter and make your own case.

And asking me questions, is you using me as your own witness to make your own case, whereas, I am the one trying to hear the case.

And you already know, you can not use a Judge hearing a case as a witness.

You are supposed to use your own self to make this case, since you are the one interested in defending it.

So, present your counter to the case made here and let us see it.

LegalWolf:


Unapologetically predictable! But when would you start wearing your toga of a future thief? Ehn

LOL!

cc: Potential thief TenQ

Pathetic!