hakeem4:
Bleep! you are trying to say that we were intelligently designed right? To be honest. with this bullshit you have written up there, i just had to conclude that you were not intelligently designed

Truthdefender66:


But one particular thing is certain; if an information on the DNA template managed to be evolved and changed with time by a certain natural process, then READING, INTERPRETATION and IMPLEMENTATION of this very information to construct and assemble different parts of animal body during embryonic development can never also evolved by a natural process because we know from experience that these three processes (reading, interpretation and implementation of an information) can only originate from an " intelligent mind "

hakeem4:

You’re just using the watchmaker argument.

First of all this your argument fails because evolution is a fact!

Let’s assume we don’t want to use evolution to refute this argument. If life is complex and something complex requires an intelligent designer. Then god is complex and indirectly he’d need to be created by an intelligent designer and this goes on and on till infinity leading to an infinite regress.

But if you decide to commit the begging the question fallacy and decide that god is the ultimate designer and he doesn’t require a designer. Then I can use your logic to say that life also had no creator

To to be intellectually honest. The best answer is “we do not know how life started” but we know how complex life evolved.

Truthdefender66:


Whether evolution is a fact or not, this doesn't affect my argument because reading, interpretation and implementation of information on the DNA template to construct and assemble different parts of animal body during embryonic development require intelligence.
In other words, the transformation of a very tiny zygote into a comparatively huge and marvelous new born baby is definitely the work of intelligence. And intelligence cannot be the owner of itself.

If life had no beginning, then you should have made a tangible point by saying life also had no creator just like our ultimate designer who created an information processing system in a living cell. But alas, life came to exist about 3.5 billion years ago. Therefore, life must definitely have a creator because it began to exist.

hakeem4:
can you give me any example of any life that was created by an intelligent designer?

Life must have a creator because it began to exist 3.5 billion years ago?
The problem I have with you is that you already conclude your answer before you ask the question.

This is how your analogy sounds

This wristwatch is complex : therefore an intelligent designer made it

Life is complex therefore an intelligent designer made it.

Premise 2

The complex watch was made in 2006
Therefore life was made in 2006

You can’t be committing the false analogy fallacy to argue.

I want this to be a religious debate not a scientific debate. Cause if you claim you know science then you don’t! Cause no serious scientist would ask these ridiculous questions

Truthdefender66:
Why must we test for the existence of God in the science laboratory ?


The zygote of a cockroach can only develop into a cockroach

The zygote of a tilapia fish can only develop into a tilapia fish

The zygote of an alligator can only develop into an alligator

The zygote of an ostrich bird can only develop into an ostrich bird

The zygote of an elephant can only develop into an elephant.

The zygote of a gorilla can only develop into a gorilla.

The zygote of a blue whale can only develop into a blue whale.

The zygote of a human being can only develop into a human being.

This implies that zygote of a particular animal species must possess a particular set of encoded information representing the physical and behavioral characteristics of that very species of animal.

It is this very encoded information that scientists described as DNA.

This DNA template contains a lot of biological information on how to construct and assemble different parts of animals'body during embryonic development

Since all the organs that make up the body of animal do not form at the same time, the construction of various organs during embryonic development has to follow each other in a sequential manner.

Therefore, all the different information on the DNA template has to be read, interpreted and implemented sequentially for different organs that make up the body to be constructed and assembled.

For example, after the construction of the the three germ layers ( endoderm, mesoderm and ectoderm), the first organ to be constructed during embryonic development is the heart.

According to embryology, there are 5 stages involved in the construction of the heart during embryonic development.

Stage 1: formation of the heart tube.

Stage 2: looping of the heart tube

Stage 3: formation of the heart chambers ( left and right atria, left and right ventricles)

Stage 4 : development of the outflow tracts like ascending aorta and pulmonary trunks

Stage 5: formation of the heart valves ( bicuspid and tricuspid valves)

Molecular studies have shown that more than 500 genes are involved in the development of the mammalian heart.

This implies that those five stages involved in heart development are being controlled by more than 500 strands of information on the DNA template.

So how did relevant encoded information manage to be read, interpreted and implemented to create all the complex events involved in the five stages of the heart construction ?

It is like you are being asked to construct an engine of a motor car by following a set of information given in a particular manual.

If you're not a perfectly trained engineer, then how are you going to read, interpret and implement these set of informations to construct and assemble different parts of the car engine ?


Therefore, if an untrained but intelligent human being cannot just read, interpret and implement a particular information to construct and assemble different parts of a complex system, then how did an untrained and unintelligent natural process manage to READ, INTERPRET and IMPLEMENT the set of information in the human DNA to CONSTRUCT and ASSEMBLE different parts of human body ( like head, eyes, ears, nose, mouth, hands, chest, stomach, thigh, legs, tongue, teeth, gullet, lungs, heart, liver, kidney, spleen, testes, hypothalamus, thyroid etc ) without being guided by any intelligence ?


From our experience as intelligent human being, we know what it takes to CONSTRUCT AND ASSEMBLE DIFFERENT PARTS OF A COMPLEX SYSTEM by following a set of instructions.

1. You have to read the instruction

2. You have to interpret what you have read

3. You have to implement your interpretation by carrying out some active and specific movements.


Therefore, even if we assume that information on the DNA template managed to be evolved and changed with time by unguided processes of nature as the evolutionists want us to believe, then are we to assume again that reading, interpretation and implementation of these different information to construct and assemble different parts of bodies of animals ( like cockroach, tilapia fish, crocodile, ostrich bird, elephant, gorilla and blue whale) during embryonic development also managed to be evolved by unguided processes of nature ?



But one particular thing is certain; if an information on the DNA template managed to be evolved and changed with time by a certain natural process, then READING, INTERPRETATION and IMPLEMENTATION of this very information to construct and assemble different parts of animal body during embryonic development can never also evolved by a natural process because we know from experience that these three processes (reading, interpretation and implementation of an information) can only originate from an " intelligent mind "

Hence,automatic transformation of a very tiny zygote (which is smaller than the size of a mustard seed ) into a comparatively huge and beautiful new born baby during embryonic development must definitely be the work of an intelligence even if we cannot test for the owner of this very intelligence in the science laboratory. Of course we know intuitively that intelligence cannot be the owner of itself.



It is the owner of this very intelligence that many people described as God. Therefore, God must actually exist no matter how evolutionary scientists and their colleagues wish for His non existence.


O man! What has deceived you concerning your Lord ? Who created you, fashioned you and then made you symmetrical? In whatever Form He wills, does He assemble you together (Qur'an 82:6-9).


For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made (Psalm 139:13-14).