I was just wondering what Quranist's think on Jesus..Is he dead or alive?

Are u a christain or a muslim. If you are a christain, your question is of no religous relevance, nd if you are a muslim..... I dont want to abuse u

Mcdondayan: Are u a christain or a muslim. If you are a christain, your question is of no religous relevance, nd if you are a muslim..... I dont want to abuse u

Are you a quranist? can you answer the question? I will very much appreciate an answer

P.S: where is usisky?

Quranist or not,the Holy Quran says Jesus (as) was neither killed nor crucified but was made to appear unto them.

we are also told God caused Jesus (as) to "die" or into a state of slumber,and then raised him up to Him.now whether he is still in that state,God knows.we cannot tell if he died or was in a state of slumber because the word used "mutawaffika" is also used in the Quran to refer to us in a state of sleep and can also describe someone who dies a natural death.

LagosShia: Quranist or not,the Holy Quran says Jesus (as) was neither killed nor crucified but was made to appear unto them.

we are also told God caused Jesus (as) to "die" or into a state of slumber,and then raised him up to Him.now whether he is still in that state,God knows.we cannot tell if he died or was in a state of slumber because the word used "mutawaffika" is also used in the Quran to refer to us in a state of sleep and can also describe someone who dies a natural death.

Ok, So its uncertain...Can you give me the verse where God was said to put him in the slumber state?

mkmyers45:
Ok, So its uncertain...Can you give me the verse where God was said to put him in the slumber state?

Holy Quran 3:55
"[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ".

PEACE Mr. Myers!!

Quranist?! Anyways, i am not a quranist but a SUBMITTER(Muslim in Arabic). Please see:www.submission.org

Yes indeed my good friend! Jesus, in fact is very much alive at his Lord. But as far as our domain(this world) is concerned,Jesus is very much dead(killed by the jews) and will NEVER EVER return again. I have ample scriptural proof to back that up,but i think i would just chill for now. Although i did address this a long time ago here: https://www.nairaland.com/369220/jesus-dead-according-quran; i think the issue deserves to be delineated further. Before then, i would want you to answer this:

>>Based on the laws GOD(nature or whatever you subscribe to) has imposed on us. Do you, without a shadow of doubt, believe that a mortal- who's long gone(more than two thousand years today) from the face of the earth,would someday return? Just give me your honest opinion.

usisky: PEACE Mr. Myers!!

Quranist?! Anyways, i am not a quranist but a SUBMITTER(Muslim in Arabic). Please see:www.submission.org

Yes indeed my good friend! Jesus, in fact is very much alive at his Lord. But as far as our domain(this world) is concerned,Jesus is very much dead(killed by the jews) and will NEVER EVER return again. I have ample scriptural proof to back that up,but i think i would just chill for now. Although i did address this a long time ago here: https://www.nairaland.com/369220/jesus-dead-according-quran; i think the issue deserves to be delineated further. Before then, i would want you to answer this:

>>Based on the laws GOD(nature or whatever you subscribe to) has imposed on us. Do you, without a shadow of doubt, believe that a mortal- who's long gone(more than two thousand years today) from the face of the earth,would someday return? Just give me your honest opinion.

Well..it may possible because 'the son' may posses such power to return but not a physical body.

Experiencing some connection problem. I'll use ma phone 4 now.

now mr. Myers, don't you think your opinion above is simply conjectural? Those who subscribe to d "second coming" all agree he'll emerge in full splendor as jesus(with the body). Since u're a deist, hw did u arrive at dis opinion of urs? Pls do note that i do not agree wit d idea of sonship. Can u pls hint me what possible role dis "bodiless" jesus will play "if" he ever emerges?

usisky: Experiencing some connection problem. I'll use ma phone 4 now.

now mr. Myers, don't you think your opinion above is simply conjectural? Those who subscribe to d "second coming" all agree he'll emerge in full splendor as jesus(with the body). Since u're a deist, hw did u arrive at dis opinion of urs? Pls do note that i do not agree wit d idea of sonship. Can u pls hint me what possible role dis "bodiless" jesus will play "if" he ever emerges?

Well, objectively we are looking at Jesus right? Can't God create a son without a Consort(wife)?

^^^Can we pls stick wit d real intent of ur op. Pls do answer ma question above.

usisky: ^^^Can we pls stick wit d real intent of ur op. Pls do answer ma question above.

The Search for the truth is non-ending..my post was supposed to address the issue of sonship. Anyway, A deist/agnostic/atheist can only attempt to study jesus' life as they are several version describing his life and time..Any according to second coming Jesus is coming without a body (stand to be corrected) to rapture saints who will also inhibit spirits in ascent to the Wedding Feast..

^^^Good my bro. Absolutely notn wrong in trying to unravel d mystery behind that great historical figure called jesus. I just feel we shld discuss d theme of ur OP rather digressing into smt'n else. Pls review d thread i cited above. Tel me wat u make of it. I will give a detailed exposition frm d quran once again wen i am not too occupied doing other stuff.

mkmyers45: Well, objectively we are looking at Jesus right? Can't God create a son without a Consort(wife)?

That argument is lame on several levels:

1. Look-up the word son in the dictionary, it implies a male offspring of a human being. We know that Christians believe that God is a white man with super powers, when they talk about Jesus (AS) as "son of God", they are talking from a biological point of view. It is quite a ridiculous assertion.

2. If for argument sake, we agree that God is in the business of having children, why would he stop at one?

3. Children imply succession, since God is immortal, what would He need children for?

4. If God is in the business of having children, why a son? why not a daughter?

for the sake of clarification only because i earlier commented on this topic and so that no one would misunderstand my statements and relate them to what "Usisky" is saying,let me clarify the following:

Muslims,Shia and Sunni,believe Jesus (as) will return to this earth alongside Imam Mahdi (ajtfs).

the Quran states:

"And (Jesus) will be A Sign (for the coming Of) the Hour (of Judgement): Therefore have no doubt About the (Hour), but Follow ye Me: this Is a Straight Path".(43:61)

whether Jesus (as) is presently living,eating and drinking somewhere in the heavens,or is in a state of slumber like "the people of the cave" or the "seven sleepers" who Allah (swt) brought back to life after over 300 years according to Surat al-Kahf in the Holy Quran,or Jesus (as) is actually dead,Jesus (as) will return to this earth.he will descend.the authentic hadiths (which Usisky and his "Quran only" sect) reject even give more details to Quran Verse 43:61.

it should be noted that only two Sunni offshoot sects,the Ahmadiyyah and the "Quran only" aka "submitter" sects,that believe Jesus (as) will not return.

and this these two sects claim for known reason to suit their misinterpretation of the Quran and their cultist agenda to suit their sects' respective beliefs.

the Ahmadiyya believe Jesus (as),the son of Mary returned "spiritually" with the coming/birth of their sect leader,Mirza Ghulam Ahmad,who claimed prophethood and imamate.he claimed to be both the "spiritual Jesus" and also Imam Mahdi (as) combined.

the "Quran only" sect or what "Usisky" refer to in a tricky manner as "submitter",naturally do not believe Jesus (as) would return because they disregard all hadith narrations even authentic ones.so definitely since the interpretation by both Sunni and Shia Muslims of Verse 43:61 indicate Jesus (as) will return, when the verse put side by side with authentic hadiths which give details and explicitly state Jesus (as) will return,"Quran only" cultists disbelieve in all hadiths and therefore would give some ridiculous interpretation to verse 43:61.

"Usisky" is posing to be rational but infact very un-Quranic.the 18th sura of the Quran tells us the story of the "people of the cave" or "the seven sleepers" whom Allah (swt) brought back to life after over 300 years.based on Usisky's so called rationality,it would equally be impossible for Jesus (as) to return after over 2000 years.so the question is,is the Quran according to Mr."Quran only" giving a fairytale story? was it a lie in the Holy Quran that Allah (swt) brought the people of the cave back to life after over 300 years?

the same goes for the 12th Imam of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) believed by Shia Muslims to be Imam Mahdi (as).Shia Muslims believe he is still alive after over 1300 years,but in ghaybah (state of physical disappearance) but will re-appear at around the same time Jesus (as) will return.Sunnis also believe in Imam Mahdi but ( Sunnis unlike the Shia do not believe in the imamate of the 12 holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt) Sunnis believe he has not yet being born but would be born in future and that Imam Mahdi (as) will accompany Prophet Jesus (as),the son of Mary (as).both Shia and Sunnis however believe Jesus (as) will return to this earth alongside Imam Mahdi (as) who both sides believe is from the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and a descendant of Prophet Muhammad (sa).the basics are the same between the Shia and Sunni.

^^^Mr. Mac. I go ban u o! Y u want derail d thread? Make i respite u fr nw. Next time na a week ban u go get. LoL

usisky: ^^^Good my bro. Absolutely notn wrong in trying to unravel d mystery behind that great historical figure called jesus. I just feel we shld discuss d theme of ur OP rather digressing into smt'n else. Pls review d thread i cited above. Tel me wat u make of it. I will give a detailed exposition frm d quran once again wen i am not too occupied doing other stuff.

Is the biblical account wrong?

usisky: ^^^Mr. Mac. I go ban u o! Y u want derail d thread? Make i respite u fr nw. Next time na a week ban u go get. LoL

there is really nothing funny here.

i will just contain myself at that for the time being.

LagosShia: for the sake of clarification only because i earlier commented on this topic and so that no one would misunderstand my statements and relate them to what "Usisky" is saying,let me clarify the following:

Muslims,Shia and Sunni,believe Jesus (as) will return to this earth alongside Imam Mahdi (ajtfs).

the Quran states:

"And (Jesus) will be A Sign (for the coming Of) the Hour (of Judgement): Therefore have no doubt About the (Hour), but Follow ye Me: this Is a Straight Path".(43:61)

whether Jesus (as) is presently living,eating and drinking somewhere in the heavens,or is in a state of slumber like "the people of the cave" or the "seven sleepers" who Allah (swt) brought back to life after over 300 years according to Surat al-Kahf in the Holy Quran,or Jesus (as) is actually dead,Jesus (as) will return to this earth.he will descend.the authentic hadiths (which Usisky and his "Quran only" sect) reject even give more details to Quran Verse 43:61.

it should be noted that only two Sunni offshoot sects,the Ahmadiyyah and the "Quran only" aka "submitter" sects,that believe Jesus (as) will not return.

and this these two sects claim for known reason to suit their misinterpretation of the Quran and their cultist agenda to suit their sects' respective beliefs.

the Ahmadiyya believe Jesus (as),the son of Mary returned "spiritually" with the coming/birth of their sect leader,Mirza Ghulam Ahmad,who claimed prophethood and imamate.he claimed to be both the "spiritual Jesus" and also Imam Mahdi (as) combined.

the "Quran only" sect or what "Usisky" refer to in a tricky manner as "submitter",naturally do not believe Jesus (as) would return because they disregard all hadith narrations even authentic ones.so definitely since the interpretation by both Sunni and Shia Muslims of Verse 43:61 indicate Jesus (as) will return, when the verse put side by side with authentic hadiths which give details and explicitly state Jesus (as) will return,"Quran only" cultists disbelieve in all hadiths and therefore would give some ridiculous interpretation to verse 43:61.

"Usisky" is posing to be rational but infact very un-Quranic.the 18th sura of the Quran tells us the story of the "people of the cave" or "the seven sleepers" whom Allah (swt) brought back to life after over 300 years.based on Usisky's so called rationality,it would equally be impossible for Jesus (as) to return after over 2000 years.so the question is,is the Quran according to Mr."Quran only" giving a fairytale story? was it a lie that Allah (swt) brought the people of the cave back to life after over 300 years?

the same goes for the 12th Imam of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) believed by Shia Muslims to be Imam Mahdi (as).Shia Muslims believe he is still alive but in ghaybah (state of physical disappearance) but will re-appear at around the same time Jesus (as) will return.Sunnis also believe in the Mahdi but believe he has not yet being born but would be born in future and that Imam Mahdi (as) will accompany Prophet Jesus (as),the son of Mary (as).

Well, i'm very interested in a quranist/submitter's view

^^^Sallam Mr. Lagoshia. I understand ur position on this subject, and i am not gonna contend dat wit anybody. U are free to believe watevr u feel makes sense to u. I wil by God's grace give d quranic perspective on d matter. I have my reasons for upholding d quran alone, and dnt really expect u to acquiesce with dat.

maclatunji:

That argument is lame on several levels:

1. Look-up the word son in the dictionary, it implies a male offspring of a human being. We know that Christians believe that God is a white man with super powers, when they talk about Jesus (AS) as "son of God", they are talking from a biological point of view. It is quite a ridiculous assertion.

2. If for argument sake, we agree that God is in the business of having children, why would he stop at one?

3. Children imply succession, since God is immortal, what would He need children for?

4. If God is in the business of having children, why a son? why not a daughter?

Its not an argument as we were comparing accounts from a quranists view

Cheer

^^^@Myers. As far as d biblical account concerning jesus' crucifixion, yes it's dead accurate. Jesus was killed. As regard resurrection, no. I think these concepts have been grossly miscontrued by d interpreters of d bible; d ascension especially. Anyhow, i do not expect u to agree wit me fr nw, but i wil God willing provide a better exposition than ma previous as in d link i provided.

usisky: ^^^Sallam Mr. Lagoshia. I understand ur position on this subject, and i am not gonna contend dat wit anybody. U are free to believe watevr u feel makes sense to u. I wil by God's grace give d quranic perspective on d matter. I have my reasons for upholding d quran alone, and dnt really expect u to acquiesce with dat.

i am really not interested to know why you choose ignorance over knowledge in rejecting all hadith narrations,while at the same time you have the courage to quote hindu and christian texts.arguing over why you reject hadiths is becoming increasingly boring of recent and a non-issue or at most trivial that doesn't deserve time to be expended on such an issue.i should remind you that we have previously rubbed minds on this issue of your rejection of all hadiths:
https://www.nairaland.com/997077/how-muslim-submitter

https://www.nairaland.com/909544/scriptural-mistranslation-lagoshia-et-al

https://www.nairaland.com/960432/origin-hadith-reason-behind-muslims

https://www.nairaland.com/962083/which-hadith-believe-besides-quran


relevant to this discussion in this thread is for you to clarify two things:

1.) what is your "Quran only" aka "submitter" interpretation of Verse 43:61 in light of the belief that Jesus (as) will return and your own claim Jesus (as) will not return?

2.) what is your opionion on the story of the "people of the cave" known as the "seven sleepers" referred to in Surat al-Kahf? is that story true? and if it is true that Allah (swt) brought them back to life after over 300 years,then why do you doubt Allah (swt) can send Jesus (as) back to earth after over 2000 years? if you believe in resurrection of mankind as stated in the Quran that everyone would be resurrected,then why do you find it hard to believe and think it is irrational for Jesus (as) a mortal to return to earth by Allah's permission after over 2000 years?

please just concentrate on these two points and let us make headway.thanks.

mkmyers45: Well, i'm very interested in a quranist/submitter's view

well,since that is the case,if both of you feel i am derailing your thread and that i should leave you guys alone,please state so.and i will stay on the sideline.

^^^Mr lagosshia. Thanks again. I will not drag dis too far wit u as i knw hw easily provoked u Can be. However, u shld take cognizance of d fact dat no quranic verse u would quote in which i have never familiarized wit. As i said, i wil provide d quranic perspective God willing.

^^^L-Shia. Let me dispel u of ur myth a little. Seriously ponder on dis:

>>>d quran declares dat prophet muhammad was d last nabiyy(prophet). Dnt u think if jesus were to return, dat would make him d last prophet den?

usisky: ^^^Mr lagosshia. Thanks again. I will not drag dis too far wit u as i knw hw easily provoked u Can be. However, u shld take cognizance of d fact dat no quranic verse u would quote in which i have never familiarized wit. As i said, i wil provide d quranic perspective God willing.

i would not easily be provoked if our discussion is courteous and civil.i know well i am not insane and have never being to a psychiatric before for you to use my condition not to engage in a fruitful discussion.

i am looking forward to your perspective.

usisky: ^^^L-Shia. Let me dispel u of ur myth a little. Seriously ponder on dis:

>>>d quran declares dat prophet muhammad was d last nabiyy(prophet). Dnt u think if jesus were to return, dat would make him d last prophet den?

you're really funny.so let me further amuse you and the readers.

lets say you're the last child out of 12 children of your parents.

if all your eleven seniors are dead.and one day Allah (swt) decide to bring them back to life,would you stop being the youngest child among them?

Jesus (as) had already come before Muhammad (sa).Jesus (as) coming again would not make him the last prophet.by "seal of the prophets" mentioned in the Quran referring to Prophet Muhammad (sa),we understand there would be no new prophet after Muhammad (sa).Jesus (as) had already previously come.and even if Musa and Ibrahim (as) are to join Jesus (as),it would still not change the fact and reality Muhammad (sa) was the last prophet.

LagosShia:

well,since that is the case,if both of you feel i am derailing your thread and that i should leave you guys alone,please state so.and i will stay on the sideline.

No, We are always seeking to learn aren't we? Your views are welcome

usisky: ^^^@Myers. As far as d biblical account concerning jesus' crucifixion, yes it's dead accurate. Jesus was killed. As regard resurrection, no. I think these concepts have been grossly miscontrued by d interpreters of d bible; d ascension especially. Anyhow, i do not expect u to agree wit me fr nw, but i wil God willing provide a better exposition than ma previous as in d link i provided.

Did Jesus ascend? How emperical proof truly justifies true adherence to the Quran's depiction of Jesus

mkmyers45: Did Jesus ascend? How emperical proof truly justifies true adherence to the Quran's depiction of Jesus

good question for "Usisky"! indeed according to the Quran,Jesus (as) was taken up into the heavens.