Good day to all the knowledgeable people of the religious section.I do not know if this topic has been discussed before since I am new here.However I am a student of the Bible because it fascinates me a great deal.In fact I have read the book cover to cover a couple of times,however there is one passage that has always fascinated me and I have always wondered what this passage teaches us as students of the Bible or Christians?
The passage in question is[b] 2nd Kings Chapter 2 verses 23-25. [/b]

I have always wondered about this passage and what it is trying to teach us as Christians and as human beings.

Please read along with me and let us rub minds together on this passage and any other passages in the Bible that you find fascinating;

2nd Kings chapter 2 verses 23-25.

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way,there came forth little children out of the city and mocked him and said unto him,Go up thou bald head;go up thou bald head.
24 And he turned back and looked on them and cursed them in the name of the Lord;And there came forth two she bears out of the woods and tore forty and two children of them.
25 And he went from thence to Mount Carmel,and from thence he returned to Samaria.

The Holy Bible,King James version.

I am still baffled as to what this passage means to teach us.
Please can I be enlightened? Thank you in advance.

It just shows that Christians are 'butchers' of Christ.
He lacks patience and understanding of how juvenile little children truly are.
What a grumpy old dude!
Typical man of God. . .devoid of forgiveness and patience like his wicked GOD!
If they were adults who should know better, I could understand his angst.
But as a man of GOD. . .no surprises there.
An angry God can BREED angry prophets!
Tufiakwa!!!

2nd Kings chapter 2 verses 23-25.

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way,there came forth little children out of the city and mocked him and said unto him,Go up thou bald head;go up thou bald head.

24 And he turned back and looked on them and cursed them in the name of the Lord;And there came forth two she bears out of the woods and tore forty and two children of them.


25 And he went from thence to Mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

Mu he he he he he he


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scs6mWiHnyA&feature=related

k2039: [size=13pt]Never mock a man of God
Train up your children in the right way(if their parents had taught them well,they would have known not to mock any one)
[/size]

Dear sir,
These were youths who did not know any better.
While I am not trying to hold brief, the violence in this short passage is shocking.There was no chance for these youths to repent of their folly.
It is not surprising that lots of preachers give this passage a skip when preaching.
How can the violence be explained in relation to the offence committed?

TheMadame:


Dear sir,
These were youths who did not know any better.
While I am not trying to hold brief, the violence in this short passage is shocking.There was no chance for these youths to repent of their folly.
It is not surprising that lots of preachers give this passage a skip when preaching.
How can the violence be explained in relation to the offence committed?

Are you arguing with the actions of the Creator. Your sense of good and evil were given to you by him, how dare you question his morals?

He is the Creator. He does as he wishes with his creation.. a day is like a thousand years to him, for all he cares, those kids were a million years old... Justice/Yahweh was served..

what Elisha did was a gross abuse of spiritual power which of course he will pay the price if not in that life time then in another life time. this is the reason why spiritual power is not just given to an individual who has not developed spiritual discipline, love, patience and tolerance.
there is no excuse to unleash mayhem on people just because you were called names. you do not fight for God.you allow divine justice to take its cause.

musKeeto:

Are you arguing with the actions of the Creator. Your sense of good and evil were given to you by him, how dare you question his morals?

He is the Creator. He does as he wishes with his creation.. a day is like a thousand years to him, for all he cares, those kids were a million years old... Justice/Yahweh was served..

God is sovereign, end of story. Our perception of what happened there does not matter. It is like trying to ask God why He does not send angels to save babies and kids during time of war. Why must some of them die painful deaths when they clearly are innocent? In yoruba, we will say 'Kabiyo osi'

I have two different views.

One, Though Elisha was a prophet, he still was an imperfect person just like we all. So he could have misused God's power.

Second view, the Bible didn't mention their age, so we can't say the children didn't know any better. Perhaps, even more importantly, it shows that when the Bible says the wages of sin is death, it's not something to take lightly. Mocking and making fun of people is wrong, and what we consider little sins are big sins in God's eyes. For example, Eve only ate a fruit. And Lot's wife only looked back. Yet, we know what happened to them.

God bless.

Can we really say that what they youths did-mocking Elisha was a sin? Does this sin of mockery justify the punishment of the sinners being devoured by wild bears?
Why do many Men of God avoid quoting this passage in the Bible?
Please I wish to be enlightened. Or could this story be an allegory?

Op, it was a real occurence and not just an allegory.

First of all, the hebrew word translated children could actually be more accurately translated young adolescents or youths. So that rules out the fact that they did not know what they were doing. They were probabaly making jest of him that he should vanish just as his master has just done. It might not be a direct sin to God but it was offensive to him.

on the other hand, elisha was just coming back from the traumatic experience of elijah being taken away. So he was not in a good frame of mind.
just imagine if your father has just died in an accident and someone walks up to you to go take a car, drive and kill yourself like your father.Therefore i believe this was an emotional reaction from him and not a sovereign act of God.

However all these happened in the old testament. Believers in the NT are not allowed/encouraged to do the same. An instance is where the sons of thunder(james & john) wanted to call fire down because they didnt allow Jesus to go in and Jesus' reply was that they do not know the spirit that they carry. In otherwords, if Jesus was in elisha's shoes. He wouldn't react that way and believers are expected to act the same way.

Just my 2cents

TheMadame: Can we really say that what they youths did-mocking Elisha was a sin? Does this sin of mockery justify the punishment of the sinners being devoured by wild bears?
Why do many Men of God avoid quoting this passage in the Bible?
Please I wish to be enlightened. Or could this story be an allegory?

Like I said, mocking people is a sin. And it may seem small to us humans, but it is big in God's eyes. Just like lying, many people see it as a normal thing, but God condemns it so strongly.

I don't know why many preachers don't quote it. But I'm sure there are those who've preached on it. We've not listened to every single preacher in the world, so just because we've never heard it doesn't mean they aren't preaching on it. Moreover, we shouldn't just quote passages for quoting sake. So, a preacher will quote it if there is something he wants to teach from there. I mean, there are many passages in the Bible that people quote a lot (John 3:16, Jer 29:11, etc) and there are some that don't get quoted so much. But like I said, I don't think they avoid it just for avoiding sake. If they feel there's something they'd want to teach from there, I'm sure they'll quote it.

^
while I commend your attempt to answer the questions thrown up by this passage,it does not sound convincing to me?
Why kill a fly with a sledge hammer?
Why curse in the name of the Lord?
Why so much violence?
What does this passage teach us about misuse of spiritual power?

Truth be told.
Elisha suffered from tantrum.
We know what he did to gehazi.
Like he never committed a crime under elijah.
When we grow in spirit, it is also advisable we gain in tolerance.
The kids were wrong, and so elisha.
That he is a prophet does not make him perfect.

Possibly he had taken that route several times before that day.And each time he plies this route these children make mockery of him.It's also possible he had warned them several times but they wouldn't listen to him.You can imagine such huge number of people clapping,dancing,coined a derogatory song for you,following you about & making mockery of you in the public.Apart from the children,don't you think there possibly could be some good number of adult spectators there in the street who could have cautioned those children but chose not to,because they themselves were deriving pleasure from it all.It's upsetting, though am not in anyway justifying his action.

see as people don dey try change the story, because the story doesn't make any sense whatsoever to their understanding of God..
the kids were prob not kids, it wasn't their first time, elisha had an itch on his balls, it wasn't God's fault, it was Elisha's because he wasn't perfect..


instead of using common sense, they've dropped it at the altar of Yahweh, and speak like zombies..

The story has to be wrong, our creator can not be like this, he's love.. he probably had a purpose ... lmao..

This passage is one of the the passages that teach us that Jesus christ is the only worthy example for christians.It exposes the limitations of the prophets and exalt the perfection of christ.Elijha was also subjected to 'flesh'of which anger is one of the fruits of the 'flesh'.As christians,it teach us that we should be spiritually minded because the flesh cannot please God.Its only the spirit that drives us to live after christ.The flesh is weak,even with great prophets,the weakness was made manifest.IF it had been jesus christ,no matter the situation he wont destory lives.he endured more tribulation,more insults and more disgrace on his way to the cross.CHRIST IS OUR ONLY AND GREATEST EXAMPLE,THE PROPHETS FAILED ONLY CHRIST DIDNT.

I love threads like this. It's funny to see Nairaland Christians try to defend any of their god's many episodes of psychopathy. Killing 42 "little children" is okay because they weren't really that small, and he must have warned them many times, and Elisha was traumatized from watching his BFF Elijah fly up to heaven.

Luckiw, things are much more clear-cut for we atheists. Killing small children is wrong, end of story! No buts, no ifs, ands or maybes.

I wish somebody with knowledge could come and explain this Bible passage to satisfaction.
As I said most men of God always give this passage a big miss because the violence is unexplainable and is totally contrary to what the behaviour or reaction of a man of God or prophet should be. Elisha is one of the prophets of God and we followers should take a cue from him,but is this the kind of behaviour we should exhibit as children of God?
The atheists and free thinkers are having a field day on this thread,but where are the Christians?
Please we need to debate this little but mighty passage in the Bible or is the threadf being deliberately ignored because they are as confused about it as I am?

^^^^ Has it occurred to you that the atheists and freethinkers are the ones with knowledge? What can anyone possibly say to justify the brutal killing of 42 children? Some things are morally ambiguous, but I think.we can all agree that the mass slaughter of children is clearly wrong.

^^
While the atheists and free thinkers may claim to have the knowledge,it is only fair and justified to hear from the Christians too!

TheMadame: ^^
While the atheists and free thinkers may claim to have the knowledge,it is only fair and justified to hjear from the Christians too!

Madam, the Christians on Nl are battling over the tithe and trinity doctrines...
Just chill, maybe one will come by soon...just hope it isnt buzugee/obadiah...

by the way, ur answers are too mature, biko....

Thank you for the compliment sir Only seeking knowledge.

TheMadame: Thank you for the compliment sir.

TheMadame: Good day to all the knowledgeable people of the religious section.I do not know if this topic has been discussed before since I am new here.However I am a student of the Bible because it fascinates me a great deal.In fact I have read the book cover to cover a couple of times,however there is one passage that has always fascinated me and I have always wondered what this passage teaches us as students of the Bible or Christians?
The passage in question is[b] 2nd Kings Chapter 2 verses 23-25. [/b]

I have always wondered about this passage and what it is trying to teach us as Christians and as human beings.

Please read along with me and let us rub minds together on this passage and any other passages in the Bible that you find fascinating;

2nd Kings chapter 2 verses 23-25.

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way,there came forth little children out of the city and mocked him and said unto him,Go up thou bald head;go up thou bald head.
24 And he turned back and looked on them and cursed them in the name of the Lord;And there came forth two she bears out of the woods and tore forty and two children of them.
25 And he went from thence to Mount Carmel,and from thence he returned to Samaria.

The Holy Bible,King James version.

I am still baffled as to what this passage means to teach us.
Please can I be enlightened? Thank you in advance.

Here's an article that I posted elsewhere that puts it in perspective.

Elisha’s Bears

"And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them" (II Kings 2:23,24).

This account has occasioned much criticism by skeptics, charging Elisha with petulant cruelty in sending bears to kill the little children who were taunting him. Actually, it was God who sent the bears, not Elisha.

The fact is, however, that Elisha did not curse little children at all. The Hebrew word for "children" used with the phrase "little children" can be applied to any child from infancy to adolescence. The word for the 42 "children" torn by the bears, however, is a different word, commonly translated "young men." Actually, both words are used more often for young men than for little children.

The situation evidently involved a gang of young hoodlums of various ages, led by the older ones, with all of them no doubt instigated by the pagan priests and idolatrous citizens of Bethel. The bears which suddenly emerged from the woods "tare" (not necessarily fatally in all cases) 42 of the older hooligans.

The jeering exhortation to "go up, thou bald head," was both a sarcastic reference to Elijah’s supposed ascension, as well as an insult to God’s prophet. This was actually a challenge to God and could not be excused. So God made good—in miniature—on a warning issued long before: "And if ye walk contrary unto me. . . . I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children" (Leviticus 26:21,22). It can be a dangerous thing, for young or old, to gratuitously insult the true God and His word. HMM

For more . . . .

^^
Sir,
Thank you for your insight,however what I discern from it is that mockery of any man of God equals a violent death of any kind. This to me can not be right. Our God is a kind,compassionate and loving God. This passage in the Bible is completely contrary to these attributes of my God.

TheMadame: ^^
Sir,
Thank you for your insight,however what I discern from it is that mockery of any man of God equals a violent death of any kind. This to me can not be right. Our God is a kind,compassionate and loving God. This passage in the Bible is completely contrary to these attributes of my God.

You see, not at all Madame, not at all.. God has always been that way..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgBxvoLFgWY

TheMadame: ^^
Sir,
Thank you for your insight,however what I discern from it is that mockery of any man of God equals a violent death of any kind. This to me can not be right. Our God is a kind,compassionate and loving God. This passage in the Bible is completely contrary to these attributes of my God.

If you really know God you will realise that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. God is a loving God and He is equally a God of Justice. Read Hebrews 10:31 and 12:29 where you will see that our God is a consuming fire.

TheMadame: ^^
Sir,
Thank you for your insight,however what I discern from it is that mockery of any man of God equals a violent death of any kind. This to me can not be right. Our God is a kind,compassionate and loving God. This passage in the Bible is completely contrary to these attributes of my God.

Just as i said in my earlier post, this is not the right thing in the NT because if Jesus himself was in that position he wouldnt have done the same thing.

On why pastors use it to intimidate people, it is either out of their own ignorance or they are preying on the ignorance of their members. it is totally WRONG as the wrath that should came upon all men has been put on Jesus.

for instance 'touch not my annointed. . .. ' has been so much misquoted by men of God but the passage was actually talking about israelites an by extension every christian.

The truth is christians should spend more time with the word than with their pastors and the Holy Spirit will reveal truths to them and they will be less intimidated by threats supposedly comimg from the bible.

@Yemi,
Thank you for your contribution,which was illuminating,however I hope you are hot advocating that we should discard the Old testament of the Holy Bible because we have the New testament. I believe both parts of the Bible are suposed to compliment each other or what say you?

There was an early Christian bishop called Marcion of Sinope who was born around 85 A.D. about 50 years after the crucifixion supposedly took place. Back then, the basic Christian dogma and most of the beliefs we take for granted nowadays hadn't been defined yet. Most Christians back then didn't believe in the divinity of Christ, the new testament hadn't been compiled yet, and many of the books had probably not even been written.

Anyway, Marcion studied the old testament and noticed that the behavior of Yahweh, the god of Israel didn't really match the heavenly father that Jesus spoke of. Jesus's heavenly father seemed to be a kind, merciful god who wanted to save mankind and wasn't too concerned with enforcing strict laws. On the other hand, the god of the old testament was a despotic, cruel, mass-murdering dictator who didn't hesitate to punish or kill people for breaking the tiniest rules even if they did it with good intentions. The old testament god was also partial to the Jews and extremely mean to everyone else. Marcion also wondered how evil came into the world? If god was all good, why did he create the devil and allow him to mess up the world? How could a good tree produce bad fruit?

He eventually decided that the old testament god wasn't the same one as the heavenly father that Jesus prayed to. His theory was that even though Yahweh created the world he was at least partly evil and cruel. The heavenly father who is a more powerful god eventually took pity on mankind and decided to rescue us (including those being tortured in hell). He decided to send Jesus to save mankind, but Yahweh's supporters tried to stop this by killing him. Unfortunately, their plan backfired because Jesus's death was the price needed to ransom man from Yahweh's clutches. Note that Marcion didn't reject the old testament, he just said we should read it with the understanding that the god in it wasn't the same one Christians were now worshippping

Marcion's theory is interesting in that it solves the "problem of evil" quite neatly. Unfortunately, the early church leaders didn't take kindly to it and they soon kicked the guy out of the church and declared him a heretic. His later on formed his own parallel church which eventually grew large enough to become orthodox Christianity's major rival for more than 2 centuries. Marcionism only died out then the orthodox Christianity became Rome's state religion and they started harassing and killing those they called "heretics".

If emperor Constantine had chosen another religion, Christianity could have been completely different today.

[url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope[/url]

@Mr Evil Brain,
Hmmm,interesting. I had never heard of Marcion and found his thoughts strange but interesting.
So the God of the Old testament is a different God from the one in the New testament?
Sir,could you please help us to cut and paste this article on Marcion so that it can form part of this thread, thank you in anticipation.

^^^^ Done

Marcion of Sinope
Marcion of Sinope (Greek: Μαρκίων [1] Σινώπης), (c.85 – c.160) was a bishop in early Christianity. [2] His theology, which rejected the deity described in the Jewish Scriptures as inferior or subjugated to the God proclaimed in the Christian gospel , was denounced by the Church Fathers and he was excommunicated. His rejection of many books contemporarily considered scripture prompted the church to develop a canon of scriptures .
Life
Hippolytus records that Marcion was the son of the bishop of Sinope, in Pontus. His near-contemporaries Rhodon and Tertullian described him as a wealthy ship owner, [3] and he is said to have made a donation of 200,000 sesterces to the church. Marcion probably was consecrated a bishop, likely an assistant or suffragan of his father at Sinope. [3] Conflicts with the bishops of Rome arose and he was eventually excommunicated by the Church of Rome, his donation being returned to him. After his excommunication, he returned to Asia Minor where he continued to lead his many church congregations and teach the Christian gospel in its Marcionite or Pauline version.
In 394, Epiphanius claimed that after beginnings as an ascetic , Marcion seduced a virgin and was accordingly excommunicated by his father, prompting him to leave his home town. [4] This account has been doubted by many scholars, who consider it "malicious gossip". More recently, Bart D. Ehrman suggests that this "seduction of a virgin" was a metaphor for his corruption of the Christian Church, with the Church portrayed as the undefiled virgin. [5]
Teachings
Main article: Marcionism
Study of the Jewish Scriptures , along with received writings circulating in the nascent Church, led Marcion to conclude that many of the teachings of Jesus were incompatible with the actions of the god of the Old Testament , Yahweh . Marcion responded by developing a dualist system of belief around the year 144. [6] This dual-god notion allowed Marcion to reconcile supposed contradictions between Old Covenant theology and the Gospel message proclaimed by Jesus .
Marcion affirmed Jesus to be the saviour sent by the Heavenly Father , and Paul as his chief apostle. In contrast to the nascent Christian church, Marcion declared that Christianity was distinct from and in opposition to Judaism . Marcion did not claim that the Jewish Scriptures were false. Instead, Marcion asserted that they were to be read in an absolutely
literal manner, thereby developing an understanding that YHWH was not the same god spoken of by Jesus. For example, Marcion argued that the Genesis account of YHWH walking through the Garden of Eden asking where Adam was proved YHWH inhabited a physical body and was without universal knowledge ( omniscience ), attributes wholly incompatible
with the Heavenly Father professed by Jesus.
According to Marcion, the god of the Old Testament, whom he called the Demiurge , the creator of the material universe , is a jealous tribal deity of the Jews , whose law represents legalistic reciprocal justice and who punishes mankind for its sins through suffering and death. Contrastingly, the god that Jesus professed is an altogether different being, a universal
god of compassion and love who looks upon humanity with benevolence and mercy. Marcion held Jesus to be the son of the Heavenly Father but understood the incarnation in a docetic manner, i.e. that Jesus' body was only an imitation of a material body. Marcion held that Jesus paid the debt of sin that humanity owed via his crucifixion, thus absolving humanity and allowing it to inherit eternal life. [7]
Marcion was the first to propose a New Testament canon. His canon consisted of only eleven books grouped into two sections: the Evangelikon, being a version of the Gospel of Luke ,[8] and the Apostolikon , a selection of ten epistles of Paul the Apostle, whom Marcion considered the correct interpreter and transmitter of Jesus' teachings. Neither section
included elements relating to Jesus' childhood, Judaism, and material challenging Marcion's dualism. Marcion also
produced his Antitheses contrasting the Demiurge of the Old Testament with the Heavenly Father of the New Testament.
Marcion and Gnosticism
Marcion is sometimes described as a Gnostic philosopher. In some essential respects, Marcion proposed ideas which
would have aligned well with Gnostic thought. Like the Gnostics, he argued that Jesus was essentially a divine spirit
appearing to men in the shape of a human form, and not someone in a true physical body. [7]
However, Marcionism conceptualizes God in a way which cannot be reconciled with broader Gnostic thought. For
Gnostics, every human being is born with a small piece of God's soul lodged within his/her spirit (akin to the notion of a
'Divine Spark'). [7] God is thus intimately connected to and part of His creation. [7] Salvation lies in turning away from the
physical world (which Gnostics regard as an illusion) and embracing the God-like qualities within yourself. [7] Marcion,
by contrast, held that the Heavenly Father (the father of Jesus Christ) was an utterly alien god; he had no part in making
the world, nor any connection with it. Out of mercy, he intervened in the world to save humanity. [7]
Legacy
In 144, Marcion became one of the first declared heresiarchs for his deviations from the theological viewpoints of the
main body of bishops. The suppression of the Marcionist form of Christianity is thus viewed [9] as a catalyst for the
development of the New Testament canon , the establishment of a centralised church law, and the structuring of the
Church, which remained a relatively unchallenged mainstay in Christendom until the Protestant Reformation.
The church that Marcion founded had expanded throughout the known world within his lifetime, and was a serious rival
to the orthodox Christian church. Its adherents were strong enough in their convictions that the Marcionite church
retained its expansive power for more than a century. It survived Christian controversy, and imperial disapproval, for
several centuries more. [10]
Marcion was the first Christian leader to propose and delineate a Biblical canon (a list of officially sanctioned religious
works). In so doing, he established a particular way of viewing religious texts that persists in Christian thought today.
After Marcion, Christians began to divide texts into those that aligned well with the "measuring stick" (Greek kanōn
literally means "measuring stick" of accepted theological thought, and those that should be rejected. This essential
bifurcation played a major role in finalising the structure and contents of the collection of works now called the New
Testament .

[url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope[/url]
[url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism[/url]