What are atheistic principles? As far as I know, there are NONE.

Atheism simply make ONE claim - that all beliefs in gods lack enough supporting verifiable evidence. I recognise there are subtle variations to this definition, ranging from weak atheism to strong atheism.

A weak atheist simply has no god-belief, although there might indeed exist such an entity. So, for instance, a child who has not learnt about the gods of their culture can be described as a weak atheist.

A very strong atheist may be defined as one who categorically denies the existence of a god(s). This is philosophy a very hard position to defend as it is logically impractical to prove a negative.

The nominal atheist claims that from the existence evidence, the likelihood of a god(s) is extremely small.


Now, as diverse as these definitions may be, they make ABSOLUTELY NO CLAIMS about morals, metaphysics, principles, ethics, origin of life, carbon-dating, football, sexuality, etc, etc, etc. Anything else imputed on atheism is no longer called atheism.

I hope this is clear for those of you finding it hard to understand this simply idea.

===============================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
================================================================================

therationa:
A very strong atheist may be defined as one who categorically denies the existence of a god(s). This is philosophy a very hard position to defend as it is logically impractical to prove a negative.

Atheists should therefore desist from deriding other people's belief systems; since they cannot defend their own.

@therationa,

therationa:

What are atheistic principles? As far as I know, there are NONE.

It all depends on what category of atheism you espouse, for I don't know of many atheists who can honestly sustain the argument that there are no atheistic principles.

therationa:

Atheism simply make ONE claim - that all beliefs in gods lack enough supporting verifiable evidence.

That is a revisionistic apology. Atheism proper has always involved the (active) denial of the existence of God or any deity. All others are simply adjectival and admissible remorse.

therationa:

I recognise there are subtle variations to this definition, ranging from weak atheism to strong atheism.

The denominator is "atheism" - properly involving the active denial of the existence of God.

therationa:

A weak atheist simply has no god-belief, although there might indeed exist such an entity.

I'm so sorry for those in this class - no wonder "militant/fundamentalist atheism" is merciless to them!

therationa:

So, for instance, a child who has not learnt about the gods of their culture can be described as a weak atheist.

It does not surprise me that the atheistically-inclined are desperate to make atheists out of babies while asking religious folks not to share their convictions with their children! Cheats! A child is NOT an atheist - and let's stop this intellectual dishonest harrumph of referring to children with such adjectives! One is recognized as an "atheist" (without the qualifiers) only when they are able to respond to the question of the existence of God! Is a child capable of making or defending its own response thereto?

therationa:

A very strong atheist may be defined as one who categorically denies the existence of a god(s). This is philosophy a very hard position to defend as it is logically impractical to prove a negative.

Now, if you have taken that position already when you entered Nairaland, is it any wonder that you have not been able to defend your premise?

therationa:

The norminal atheist claims that from the existence evidence, the likelihood of a god(s) is extremely small.

A more convenient position to adopt - because such people perhaps (yes, 'perhaps') are averse to the more difficult position of defending their own assumption should they be asked to do so.

therationa:

Now, as diverse as these definitions may be, they make ABSOLUTELY NO CLAIMS about morals, metaphysics, principles, ethics, origin of life, carbon-dating, football, sexuality, etc, etc, etc. Anything else imputed on atheism is no longer called atheism.

That is why you need to UnCloth your facade of making Christians out to be "atheists" when they are not. We as Christians make absolute claims on various issues - and we are confident of defending our position, for example on sexuality, ethics, morals, and value systems.

Hence, it is rascally and indeed intellectually suicidal for the atheist who claims to hold absolutely no claim to then try to hold a debate on such issues that he has no clues or claims on!

therationa:

I hope this is clear for those of you finding it hard to understand this simply idea.

It is more of a teaser than an idea! Next!

Stimulus,

Pardon me, but I do not want to respond to your posting above. This is not to evade the issues you raised, but I want to take a slightly different tact on this thread. (So please do not accuse me of evasion )

Now, the reason I raised this thread was to raised the plight of people with non-belief all over the world who are feeling crowded out by a world where everybody believes in some form of diety(ies). This has resulted is a state where people are now feeling discriminated against at work, in their communities etc, for their lack of belief.

I think the reason for this is the high level of mis-understanding in the general public as to what atheism/atheist is all about. In some quarters, people think that atheists are criminal, child modester, killers etc, etc. In fact, figures show atheist are some of the most highly respected members of society. For instance, In the USA, atheist represent less than 1% of the prison population, whilst christians make about 75% (I don't make this as a jibe at Christians. I am simply stating facts. In fact, I believe that the truly committed christians are some of the best, kind people in the world. I am married to one and I will trust a truly committed christian with my life. I generally don't judge people first by whether they are christians or otherwise. I judge them simple by the content of their character, until the give a reason to think otherwise).

Now, why are atheists so maligned and calumnised in society? Is it because the general public knows little about who an atheist is?


I posted this thread so that people may know exactly what atheism is all about. We as a group have to work to reverse this outlook. Don't you agree? I know I have attacked your beliefs. But believe me, I am not attacking you as a person. I consider any form of beliefs as ideological stances that have to compete in the open market place for acceptability.

therationa:

In fact, I believe that the truly committed christians are some of the best, kind people in the world. I am married to one and I will trust a truly committed christian with my life.

aaah now i see why mr. therationa is so gungho about christianity . . . i think my brother is truly searching for God but going about it the wrong way.

I suppose if u would truly be sincere in the questions you ask and commit to one thread where ur issues can be dealth with u'll leave here a more satisfied man.

What d'ya say therationa? Do we have a truce?

Now, why are atheists so maligned and calumnised in society? Is it because the general public knows little about who an atheist is?

Maybe you should go to youtube.com and type the word "atheist" .

@therationa,

therationa:

Stimulus,

Pardon me, but I do not want to respond to your posting above.

I'd respect your choice to not respond; but what do I make of the response that followed that initial line?

After having perused your rejoinder, it seems to me that you're largely flawed. This is especially with regards to the meaning of atheism.

No one has to make atheists feel isolated in their respective societies; but it is quite another thing for the atheist to assume it is his prerogative to constantly castigate Christianity. I wouldn't be bothered by anyone choosing to not believe in anything; but the moment such a person seeks to express disaffection and derision on my convictions, it would be my responsibility to take him to task!

stimulus:

@therationa,

I'd respect your choice to not respond; but what do I make of the response that followed that initial line?

After having perused your rejoinder, it seems to me that you're largely flawed. This is especially with regards to the meaning of atheism.

No one has to make atheists feel isolated in their respective societies; but it is quite another thing for the atheist to assume it is his prerogative to constantly castigate Christianity. I wouldn't be bothered by anyone choosing to not believe in anything; but the moment such a person seeks to express disaffection and derision on my convictions, it would be my responsibility to take him to task!

But surely, the battle against unbelief and unbelievers, peaceful(there is an oxymoron somewhere I know) in recent times, but violent in times past
goes to the heart of Christianity.

Sometimes I go to church and I feel assaulted and downright devilish for holding some, shall we say, liberal views.

stimulus:

@therationa,

It all depends on what category of atheism you espouse, for I don't know of many atheists who can honestly sustain the argument that there are no atheistic principles.

Not as a collective whole. Atheism is pretty much like Theism. They each describe a very broad range of individuals and communities that share just one aspect between them: disbelief in the gods for the former, belief in gods for the latter.

That is a revisionistic apology. Atheism proper has always involved the (active) denial of the existence of God or any deity. All others are simply adjectival and admissible remorse.

I think active disbelief is a more apt representation.

@doyin13,

doyin13:

But surely, the battle against unbelief and unbelievers, peaceful(there is an oxymoron somewhere I know) in recent times, but violent in times past
goes to the heart of Christianity.

Do you care to examine the history of the several Jihads promulgated by "DIVINE INSPIRATION " as in Muhammad's case?

Before this is termed a "terminal offence", please note that I'm only asking and inviting you to a discussion, as I do not see why Muslims continue to make unwarranted statements about Christianity when they can't stand to defend their own cause in Islam (without threats of fatwa) when publicly discussed.

doyin13:

Sometimes I go to church and I feel assaulted and downright devilish for holding some, shall we say, liberal views.

Hmm, although I grew up in a Muslim-Christian home, I never went to Mosque. But perhaps one may not be far wrong to make the same inference about going to the Mosque (and yes, I could discuss a ready example, if you care).

@KAG,

KAG:

Not as a collective whole. Atheism is pretty much like Theism. They each describe a very broad range of individuals and communities that share just one aspect between them: disbelief in the gods for the former, belief in gods for the latter.

I appreciate your forthright and honest response - and yes, I agree with that premise contrary to the idea that "atheism [or atheists] has no principles".

KAG:

I think active disbelief is a more apt representation.

I apologise for being so forward; and again, I'd agree.

Cheers.

@Stimulus

I hope I don't sound like a muslim. . .lol

i am a humanist more like.

but bro you are starting to sound like Davidylan. . .you bear all the hallmarks of that legenary Crusader

doyin13:

But surely, the battle against unbelief and unbelievers, peaceful(there is an oxymoron somewhere I know) in recent times, but violent in times past
goes to the heart of Christianity.

The above is purely ahistorical.While there have been occasions where Christians did persecute "non-believers",the 20th century is littered with examples of atheists oppressing believers-N.Korea,Soviet Union,China,Vietnam,The Old Eastern Bloc,Cuba,e.t.c

You might say there are far more examples of Christian persecution of non-believers than vice-versa but bear in mind that Christians have always out-numbered atheists by a large degree so there has been very little opportunity for atheists to take their turn at being the oppressor.However,what little opportunity atheists have had,they have taken it with gusto.

I dare say,if Christianity persecuted atheists in the manner atheists have,when given the opportunity,have persecuted Christians,the atheist movement will be largely annihilated.

@doyin13,

doyin13:

@Stimulus

I hope I don't sound like a a great one. . .lol

i am a humanist more like.

Oh well, forgive me. I actually had assumed (wrongly) that you were a Muslim. Even so, my point stands as is, and the invitation is still open to you.

BTW, did you change your worldview recently? _{(Or perhaps I might be mistaking you for someone else)}

doyin13:

but bro you are starting to sound like Davidylan. . .you bear all the hallmarks of that legenary Crusader

Hahaha! You won't believe I've had a small chat with him a few minutes ago.

@4play

Keynes took a trip to Bolshevik Russia after thir victory, and he remarked how terribly
religious the place felt. The conformity was stifling like some outsized cult.

These countries were far from atheistic. . .

doyin13:

@4play

Keynes took a trip to Bolshevik Russia after thir victory, and he remarked how terribly
religious the place felt. The conformity was stifling like some outsized cult.

These countries were far from atheistic. . .

Presuming Keynes said that,I like the way you are trying to "massage" his words.You will make a good politician.

Saying that a place felt "terribly religious" is not the same as asserting that its inhabitants are religious.Now,any person with a modicum of knowledge about post-Tsar Russia will laugh at the idea that the Soviets were religious.

To the extent that atheism is the absence of belief in any supernatural existence,these people were atheists.It is the favorite tactic of atheists to deny their "brethrens". . . . . . . .always seeking to attribute Communists like Stalin some manner of religious affiliation but this is laughable.

Atheism defined in such a manner does a disservice to the various strands which fall under its umbrella
based on ther definition of religion.

The Doyin strain of atheism for example does not reduce atheism to simpl unbelief in a supernatural being.

Many religions have their Gods here on earth. . .word to the Pacific Islanders

What then do you define as atheist? Are you suggesting that Pacific Islanders who worship earthly gods are atheists? That would be a first. . . . . . .atheists who worship gods-Kind of abrogates the underlying rationale for atheism.

The Doyin strain of atheism doesn't exist-atheists don't believe in any supernatural existence.Those who believe in the supernatural(there are actually plenty of them) but still address themselves as atheists are mistaken.

If you disagree,then tell me what atheism is.

Puff Daddy tells me its denying the the future resurrection of Biggie and Tupac, the hip hop equivalent of the rapture

P. Diddy's damn wack. Besides, Badboy these days' at the end of the food chain. . .