plappville:

Here you come again, Do you think God does not want those who serve Him to recognize these most important birthdays?
Only the Scripture results for the birth dates of some of God’s greatest servants.

Abraham: Referred to three times in the Bible as God’s “friend” 2 Chronicles 20:7 Are not you our God, who did drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel, and gave it to the descendants of Abraham your friend forever?

The bible does not record the birth date of this truly great servant of God.

Moses: Referred to as the meekest man on the face of the earth; Numbers 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men who were upon the face of the earth.)

The Scripture does not tell us when he was born either.

King David: Called “a man after [God’s] own heart (Acts 13:21-22)

You can see there is not one verse of Scripture describing anyone celebrating the births of these righteous men which we claim to be following thier steps.
In fact, the Bible is silent on the exact dates of the births of all God’s faithful servants. Jacob, Sarah, Noah, Abel, Samuel, Job, Esther, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Peter, Paul, James (Christ’s brother), and the rest of the apostles. Even the birth date of Jesus Christ goes unrecorded in the Bible! Until A Pope took the authority to invent 25th which you people embrassed. Not willing to follow the Examples of the above names. S...M...H!!

I am having difficulty understanding what the post above was all about i made a simple request asking ijawkid for a non pagan date since he said 25th was pagan and i got the above

Zikkyy:

I do not live by examples. I live by Christ and the apostles teachings (and the commandment). If you live by examples and you are not up to 33 years of age, ensure you find a way of getting yourself nailed to a cross when you are 33. If you are above 33yrs, then stop telling us you follow example.

If you do not follow the good examples written in the Bible, including Christ's then you are directly disobeying. A Christian is commanded to follow good examples written in the Bible, as these verses show:

1 Peter 2:21- "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps".

Philippians 3:17-20 - "Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.  Their mind is set on earthly things" .

Heb 13:7 - "Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith".

The examples and practices of early apostles were written down exactly so that we follow.

Christmas is a clear example of earthly things we should avoid, due to it's pagan roots. No point going round in circles to justify it.

And while you may not see express instruction against birthdays, the practice was in existence at the time - Israelites and subsequently Christians did not join in. It not a new practice. You should ask yourself why they didn't.

Zikkyy:



Na wa oh you just write this long tory and refused to provide an answer. so this question hard like this all of una just dey dance azonto round the question. please answer the question and lets move forward

You've gotten my answer, Scripture validates scriptures, i gave you three good negetive birthday occasions from the bible ans the turnout of it.
And there was no birthday occasion for any servants of God. Do you now follow the pagan example given in the Bible or the Righteous men examples?

The choice is yours, yes i have to continue with the PAGAN EXAMPLEs, that is KING HEROD AND KING PHEROAH or I follow God's servants with no Birthday history.

I am not here to argue just for arguing sake, i presented scriptures which you and some others have kept blind eyes to.

Zikkyy:

I am having difficulty understanding what the post above was all about i made a simple request asking ijawkid for a non pagan date since he said 25th was pagan and i got the above

It's not his job to provide you a date for an irrelevant celebration Christ did not command. He's simply told you the pagan history and practices surrounding the current celebration called Christmas- information you can verify for yourself. You are old enough to grasp that and make up you own mind what to do with the information.

Zikkyy:

I am having difficulty understanding what the post above was all about i made a simple request asking ijawkid for a non pagan date since he said 25th was pagan and i got the above

He got no date to fabricate, sure you understand that post clearly. Here is it again:

Here you come again, Do you think God does not want those who serve Him to recognize these most important birthdays?
Only the Scripture results for the birth dates of some of God’s greatest servants.

Abraham: Referred to three times in the Bible as God’s “friend” 2 Chronicles 20:7 Are not you our God, who did drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel, and gave it to the descendants of Abraham your friend forever?

The bible does not record the birth date of this truly great servant of God.

Moses: Referred to as the meekest man on the face of the earth; Numbers 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men who were upon the face of the earth.)

The Scripture does not tell us when he was born either.

King David: Called “a man after [God’s] own heart (Acts 13:21-22)

You can see there is not one verse of Scripture describing anyone celebrating the births of these righteous men which we claim to be following thier steps.
In fact, the Bible is silent on the exact dates of the births of all God’s faithful servants. Jacob, Sarah, Noah, Abel, Samuel, Job, Esther, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Peter, Paul, James (Christ’s brother), and the rest of the apostles. Even the birth date of Jesus Christ goes unrecorded in the Bible! Until A Pope took the authority to invent 25th which you people embrassed. Not willing to follow the Examples of the above names. S...M...H!!

TroGunn:

If you do not follow the good examples written in the Bible, including Christ's then you are directly disobeying. A Christian is commanded to follow good examples written in the Bible, as these verses show:

1 Peter 2:21- "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps".

Philippians 3:17-20 - "Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.  Their mind is set on earthly things" .

Heb 13:7 - "Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith".

The examples and practices of early apostles were written down exactly so that we follow.

Christmas is a clear example of earthly things we should avoid, due to it's pagan roots. No point going round in circles to justify it.

And while you may not see express instruction against birthdays, the practice was in existence at the time - Israelites and subsequently Christians did not join in. It not a new practice. You should ask yourself why they didn't.

God bless you my brother, many of them no won miss the XMAS fun, so they will continue to keep blind eyes to Scriptures

honeric01:

You can worship another God by mixing other "practices" into what you were commanded to do, e.g making images when you're not expected to make one as commanded of God.

we know. but that is not what eddy spice and myself were discussing. We were looking at the influence of origin of a particular practice on how it is perceived. i.e was the decision to classify an act as pagan based on how the practice came into existence?

My apology if you feel offended by my comment but i like to stay focused when discussing otherwise we spend 30 pages going round in circles and not achieve anything.

CONTINUES.....



The old Yule was the time of many kinds of predictions. One could for example tell one’s lifespan by watching how a candle burned. Sounds of the animals might tell about what would happen next year. Peasants made twelve circles on the ceiling for predicting the next year’s weather. The circles symbolized the twelve Yule days and the twelve months of the year. If the first Yule day was cloudy, the peasant filled the symbol with chalk and it meant that the month of January would be cloudy. These circles were called Yule marks.

The concept of Yule peace is as old as the Yule itself. Originally it began from the Mother’s Night and continued the next twelve plus one days. At that time any crime was a severe sacrilege and was punished with death or outlawedness. Still the Yule was a time of wild games and uncontrolled sexuality, when the normal moral was forgotten. This duty was meant to strengthen the fertility of all living beings. Nowadays, because of the Christian resistance, there is nothing left of these Yule games but kisses under the mistletoe and the Scandinavian pre-Christmas parties (Finnish: pikkujoulu. Swedish: lilla jul. Danish: julefrokost.)

Yule was also a celebration of ancestors. They were present and participating at Yule as much as the living. A table, for example, was set for them with food and drink. As late as the 20th century, food and gifts were brought to the old megalithic tombs on midwinter.

Continues....

plappville: Scripture explains the day of a man’s death is better than the day of his birth.

Jeremiah cursed the day of his own birth:
Jer 20:14 Cursed be the day on which I was born: let not the day on which my mother bore me be blessed.

18 Why did I ever come out of the womb to see trouble and sorrow and to end my days in shame?

Bithday is very important yet Solomon was inspired to write:(Ecc. 7:1) “A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth”

Job didn't stop cursing the day He was born, you can read the whole of chapter 3:
Job 3: 1After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. 2He said:

3“May the day of my birth perish,
and the night it was said, ‘A boy is born!’
4That day—may it turn to darkness;
may God above not care about it;
may no light shine upon it.

If the day of our death is better than the day of our birth, and some of God’s greatest servants/prophets
said that their birth date was far from being a special day, then how special can this day be?
According to Scripture, it is not a time to express joy, sing and expect gifts, simply becaus one is born into the world on a specific date!

the idea of a pegan birth day celebrations is based upon some demonic notions that are not scriptural :

1. Humans are gods.
2. Human worship.
3. Worship/celebrating of the spirit/demon in charge of the specific day that the person was born(by doing this the spirit rejoice with the celebrant and blesses such a celebrant)

^^^
certainly has nothing to do with the servant of God Yahweh.

Even nature spirits were believed to celebrate Yule in the same way as the living and the dead. For example, the holy elder tree had to be given her Yule beer every year. The common folklore about nature spirits tells of them intruding a home at the Yule evening in an attempt to steal the holy drink horns that were originally taken from them. The story might reflect the period of time when Christianity took over the pagan traditions giving, them new Christian names.

Above is a description of Yule from 400 AD. It was carved on a golden drink horn found in Denmark. On the left side one can see the holy boar, a horse and a fish to be sacrificed. The horse would be sacrificed on the Boxing Day. The animals are situated between two octagrams representing Mother Earth. The grains between the man and the horse symbolize the beginning of the new ceremonial year, and the days getting lighter. On the right side the effects of the Yule are to be seen. Nature wakes up from her hibernation and all the animals beget offspring.



http://www.northofthemoon.com/2008/12/old-yule-3-yule-feast.html

honeric01: Most biblical scholars and preachers readily admit that they know Christ was not born on December 25th. However, they claim that this day is as good as any other to celebrate the birth of Jesus, despite the fact that it was originally a pagan celebration called Saturnalia which commemorated the birth of the sun god.
God had this to say about appropriating pagan methods of worship and trying to honor Him with them:

am interested in this. can you tell us the pagan way of worship included in the Christmas celebration today that is not acceptable to God?

truthislight:

the idea of a pegan birth day celebrations is based upon some demonic notions that are not scriptural :

1. Humans are gods.
2. Human worship.
3. Worship/celebrating of the spirit/demon in charge of the specific day that the person was born(by doing this the spirit rejoice with the celebrant and blesses such a celebrant)

^^^
certainly has nothing to do with the servant of God Yahweh.

This is a truth. I have got lots of hates and critics from friends since i rejected the old life style.
It wasn't easy, but i bless God for how He had helped me see the light. I believe Anyone who seek the truth will be set free by the truth.

eddy spice: bros according thess texts Romans 13:13 and Galatians5:21 highlights characters of those who participates such festivals so bros na sin o

You guys have a way of answering a question without actually providing an answer. we all know that orgies, intimacy e.t.c are sinful acts. my question did not have any of these in it na. go read my question again. the verses you mentioned above are not relevant.

honeric01: Most biblical scholars and preachers readily admit that they know Christ was not born on December 25th. However, they claim that this day is as good as any other to celebrate the birth of Jesus, despite the fact that it was originally a pagan celebration called Saturnalia which commemorated the birth of the sun god.
God had this to say about appropriating pagan methods of worship and trying to honor Him with them:

DEUTERONOMY 12:28 "Observe and obey all these words which I command you, that it may go well with you and your children after you forever, when you do what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God. 29 When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, 30 take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you,

(and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.')

31 "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. 32 Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. (NKJV)

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Jesus-Birthday

great quote my friend, the part in bracket ^^^.

It speaks volumes on what we are discussing, borrowing pegan celebration.

Zikkyy:

You are still not saying anything. All i read is fraud, pagan and nothing else in your post. Let me help you out.
1. Christmas is pagan because it is a sin to celebrate the birth of Christ
2. Christmas is pagan because it was instituted by pagans (catholic church)
3. Christmas is pagan because it involves sinful activities like human sacrifice
4. Christmas is pagan because it celebrated by both pagans and Christians today

If you provide statement like the above, am sure we can end this discussion with just a page of brain storming. If you select item #1 for example will make items 2-4 totally irrelevant for discussion. So we have a focus kindly tell us in clear english why Christmas is pagan.

idolatrouse worship is a sin QED.

And that is what birth day celebration is = idolatory.

honeric01:

This does not really sound "smart", it would have been better if you can show us if any of his disciples celebrated his birthdays during and after he died, we know and can read where they marked his death but non for his birth, isn't that clear enough that it was never what he instructed or told anyone to do?

we did not at any time claim that the disciples celebrated Jesus birthday. and we did not at any time claimed that Jesus instructed his birthday should be celebrated. what is not smart is you not reading our posts.

Since you guys rely on the belief that Christ did not instruct that his birthday be celebrated, can you also prove to us that there is an embargo on the celebration of Christ birthday. what we know is that the scriptures is silent on the matter of birthday.

honeric01:
Secondly, why December 25th the same day the pagan celebrates their own sun god and not his real birthday which some say is October?

Some say it is October, but nobody is sure. If it was celebrated in October, would that make you happy then?

Zikkyy:

am interested in this. can you tell us the pagan way of worship included in the Christmas celebration today that is not acceptable to God?

The trees
the gift
the color
the "images used" during xmas celebration
the message it passes across (During xmas, more immoralities are committed than any other festival in the world)

Zikkyy:

You have not answered the question. Kindly show where Christ stated that we should not celebrate his birthday. We know Christ said the Passover should be done in remembrance of him but did he say that's all we are required to do and any other act is a sin?

if christ commanded for his death and not his birth why do you add/complete it for him?

Are you telling christ that he did not know what he was doing?

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

ijawkid:

Hmmmm.....it is 100 percent affirmative that Jesus would wear clothes(trouser suit and tie or even agbada) in our time,but also 100 percent affirmative that he would never get close to christmas celebration.....and I suppose you know why.....Jesus isn't a SUN god worshipper so he would stay far away from xmas celebration......

And because of this:

Deut 12:30-32
30 take heed to
yourself that you are not
ensnared to follow them, after
they are destroyed from before
you, and that you do not inquire
after their gods, saying, 'How did
these nations serve their gods? I
also will do likewise.' 31 "You
shall not worship the LORD your
God in that way; for every
abomination to the LORD which
He hates they have done to their
gods; for they burn even their
sons and daughters in the fire to
their gods.

Zikkyy:

am interested in this. can you tell us the pagan way of worship included in the Christmas celebration today that is not acceptable to God?

A lot of the pagan practices associated with the celebration that got name change to Christmas has been listed and explained here already. Instead of asking to be spoonfed once again, why not list out all practices currently done under Christmas - Santa Claus, Christmas tree, christmas date, etc and research their origin.

eddy spice: i will pick #2 because it was instituted by them in order to allow non belivers bcome christian withoutt removing pagan traces from d festival.hence thier becoming christian was base not on God's love

Lol Nigerians! you peeps are just too lazy. so you like multiple choice question like this you want me to provide the solution to problem what i posted were just samples, i was expecting you guys to add to it. but from what i can see it was good enough for you

eddy spice: i will pick #2 because it was instituted by them in order to allow non belivers bcome christian withoutt removing pagan traces from d festival.hence thier becoming christian was base not on God's love

Good. I will come back to your response. my target for now is ijawkid & co.

ijawkid:

Na for my mouth you wan hear say yansh dey for back??.....zikky take time o......

Lol! but this should not stop you from answering my question na. I have difficulty progressing without an answer to my question.

Merry Yule!

Everyone knows that Yule and “Yuletide” are largely treated as synonyms for Christmas or Christmas time in modern, popular culture. But what precisely is Yule? When people are asked this question, their answers vary, from “the12 days of Christmas” [link to 12th Night article], “the Winter Solstice”, “an old pagan holiday”, to “I don’t really know.” In truth, all of these answers are equally, or at least equally possibly valid, including “we don’t really know.

What is known is that Yule, or “Yuletide” was an ancient winter festival, that was celebrated by the ancient Germanic tribes, and later specifically adopted into the Christian festival of Christmas. Most indication are that it was a specifically religious festival, likely originally associate with death, rebirth and ancestor worship, that easily reaches back into the Bronze Age. An animal sacrifice was likely offered to hasten the coming of spring. Many scholars believe that the principle deity venerated in connection with this ancient holiday during historical times was Odin, in his guise as Jólnir (Old Norse "yule figure", master of the Wild Hunt. Over time, Yule festivals became more celebratory, became associated with feasts, the first drinking of midwinter ale and displays of largesse, particularly gift-giving from master to servant. These customs seem to have had little to do with the original somberness of the cult of the dead, and may have been adapted from exposure to the Roman mid-winter celebrations of Saturnalia.

The word “Yule” itself is a modern rendering of the Old English ġeól or ġeóhol, which is, in turn, related to the Old Norse jól and ýlir. In the old, Germanic lunar calendar, these terms were both associated with an inter-calendar festival and the first month of the year, first appearing in written sources as early as a Gothic calendar from the 4th century, where fruma jiuleis roughly corresponds to the current month of December.

After the Gothic calendar, there is little reference to Yule until the Venerable Bede wrote about the heathen Anglo-Saxon calendar in the mid-8th century. Bede also states that geola was the name of a winter month, corresponding to late December and early January: they began the year with December 25, the day some now celebrate as Christmas. Bede goes on to write that the first day of this month included an all-night religious vigil and celebration to the gods. What is perhaps most notable is his comment that Yule itself had a fixed date of December 25 in the Julian calendar before it was universally accepted as the date for Christmas.

For more see source...http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/363168/6c963ee8ab/1526000069/a6bed0ea2f/

Continues....

ijawkid:
Christmas is pagan because everything about it was gotten from idol worshiPpers a.k.a pagans....is this answer not clear enough for you??.........

Good. we are progressing at least on this front, even though you refused to answer my main question. I will come back to this after i have seen other responses.

Zikkyy:

You have not answered the question. Kindly show where Christ stated that we should not celebrate his birthday. We know Christ said the Passover should be done in remembrance of him but did he say that's all we are required to do and any other act is a sin?

do you know the meaning of the "word" lawlessness?

Yes, what you are doing is called lawlessness.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have we cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you workers of lawlessness (Matthew 7:22-23).

Zikkyy:

we did not at any time claim that the disciples celebrated Jesus birthday. and we did not at any time claimed that Jesus instructed his birthday should be celebrated. what is not smart is you not reading our posts.

Since you guys rely on the belief that Christ did not instruct that his birthday be celebrated, can you also prove to us that there is an embargo on the celebration of Christ birthday. what we know is that the scriptures is silent on the matter of birthday.

What are you kidding me?? Scripture silent on birthday matters? this shows you have not been reading my post.
Scroll back those post you ignored provided scrptures that treated birthday issues!

Zikkyy:

we did not at any time claim that the disciples celebrated Jesus birthday. and we did not at any time claimed that Jesus instructed his birthday should be celebrated. what is not smart is you not reading our posts.

Since you guys rely on the belief that Christ did not instruct that his birthday be celebrated, can you also prove to us that there is an embargo on the celebration of Christ birthday. what we know is that the scriptures is silent on the matter of birthday.



Some say it is October, but nobody is sure. If it was celebrated in October, would that make you happy then?

I read your post clearly and my comment was a response to one of the questions you asked someone else, if you had taken time to read my questions, you'd have comprehended what the questions were for and the response to give.

I asked you some questions, but you keep dodging, i said why did they choose the same day for the pagan festival to celebrate Jesus's birth and not the actual date he was suppose to be celebrated if truly they were trying to do it for Christ?

To your question, no it still won't be okay to celebrate it even in October before the early Christians never did, likewise Jesus while he was alive. so why celebrate someone's birth when he and his immediate disciples never did? I hope you understand what Jesus tagged the "traditions of men" while lambasting the scribes/pharisees?

Zikkyy:

Lol! but this should not stop you from answering my question na. I have difficulty progressing without an answer to my question.

You have been given answers to all your questions. Clearly neither Israelites nor later on Christians celebrated birthdays (which would include Christmas) though the practice was common among pagans and was even recorded in the Bible.

You've been shown numerous verses indicating we should follow good examples of Christians in the Bible.

You were also shown Bible verse showing that worshipers of God should not copy pagan practices.

What are you looking for?

In your opinion, it's ok for a Christian to use and sell cocaine, because it's not expressly condemned in the Bible, right?

Zikkyy:

I do not live by examples. I live by Christ and the apostles teachings (and the commandment). If you live by examples and you are not up to 33 years of age, ensure you find a way of getting yourself nailed to a cross when you are 33. If you are above 33yrs, then stop telling us you follow example.

hahaha. Lol.

Ok, see:

7 Remember the faithful men, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of
life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be
strengthened by grace, not by eating ceremonial
foods, which is of no benefit to those who do so. (Hebrews 13:7-9)

^^^

you are on your own

TroGunn:
If you do not follow the good examples written in the Bible, including Christ's then you are directly disobeying. A Christian is commanded to follow good examples written in the Bible, as these verses show:

This is not about following good examples. Truthislight post gives the impression i must live just as the apostle lived. i.e. if they did not get married i should not; if they lived in huts then i should live in one. What you refer to as good examples here is also their teachings, which is what i follow.

TroGunn:
And while you may not see express instruction against birthdays, the practice was in existence at the time - Israelites and subsequently Christians did not join in. It not a new practice. You should ask yourself why they didn't.

I don't know why they didn't. it appears you know. can you tell us then?

plappville:

You've gotten my answer, Scripture validates scriptures, i gave you three good negetive birthday occasions from the bible ans the turnout of it.
And there was no birthday occasion for any servants of God. Do you now follow the pagan example given in the Bible or the Righteous men examples?

The choice is yours, yes i have to continue with the PAGAN EXAMPLEs, that is KING HEROD AND KING PHEROAH or I follow God's servants with no Birthday history.

I am not here to argue just for arguing sake, i presented scriptures which you and some others have kept blind eyes to.

why you dey fear to just say 'YES' If you believe you know what you are talking about, say yes and provide evidence or forever remain silent.