I'm not an Igbo history expert but i think i'm qualified enough to shed a little light on the confusion between Igbo - the ethnic group and Igbo - the Nation.

While Igbo ethnic group comprises of areas where Igbo culture is practiced and the language is spoken in whichever dialect be it Awka, Nkanu, Ngwa, Ikwerre, Ukwunani, Owerre etc. All these places are part of the Igbo ethnic group but not necessarily part of the Igbo nation. I think that's where the confusion has been whenever you hear back and fort about whether Ikwerre, Ika etc are all Igbos. They may be part of the Igbo ethnic group but not part of the Igbo nation.

Igbo nation is made up of people with a oness for the Igbo cause irrespective of the sub-group they may be from. But Ikwerres and Ikas don't have that ones with Igbos. So, it won't be surprising if Ikwerres or Ikas don't join Igbos in one country should Biafra be created. It's not because they hate Igbos but because they don't have that brotherhood with Igbos. It's just like joining Mexico and Puerto Rico as one country and expect that because they're from the same culture, all will be well. That's not true. They're definitely gonna have problems because they somehow have different belief systems and culture alone is not a determinant of nationhood. This point of view can be supported by the clamor by the Catalunya region is Spain to secede from Spain despite all of them being Spanish people.

http:///forum/index.php?topic=289

Why don't you allow those involved to speak for themselves? Why is it that many people have sleepless nights about biafra? Even if biafra is to be two states, how does that affect you? Create biafra today and allow ikwere people and so on to choose where to belong.

confusion247: Why don't you allow those involved to speak for themselves? Why is it that many people have sleepless nights about biafra? Even if biafra is to be two states, how does that affect you? Create biafra today and allow ikwere people and so on to choose where to belong.

In your myopic mind you only saw Biafra. SMH

It may interest you to know that i'm not a Biafra advocate. Everything musn't be about Biafra. I was only painting a scenario. Get your head outa your azz.

afam4eva:
In your myopic mind you only saw Biafra. SMH

It may interest you to know that i'm not a Biafra advocate. Everything musn't be about Biafra. I was only painting a scenario. Get your head outa your azz.

In your confused mind you never knew that the topic of your post is biafra. You want to tell us who is an IGBO and who is not a biafra. Why don't you channel your confused brain on something that is beneficial rather than involve yourself in a show of shame. As I said before create biafra and allow ikwere people and others to choose where to belong. Just carry your ethnic and tribal hatred enter your bedroom.

confusion247:
In your confused mind you never knew that the topic of your post is biafra. You want to tell us who is an IGBO and who is not a biafra. Why don't you channel your confused brain on something that is beneficial rather than involve yourself in a show of shame. As I said before create biafra and allow ikwere people and others to choose where to belong. Just carry your ethnic and tribal hatred enter your bedroom.

Why do you reason from your arss? The OP wrote clearly that Ikwerres might speak Igbo language but mostly chose not to be part of Igbo nation and you are making it seem like he's choosing for them. People like you disgust me to the marrow. I am an Igbo from Oguta LGA in Imo State while maternally from Ikwerre LGA in Rivers State. I know you are scared of Igbo unity but contribute wisely or die in envy.

The Igbo ethinic group is same as Igbo ethnic nation to the best of my knowledge.

Hmm, matters arising. Anti virus my brother,you are needed.

pazienza: Hmm, matters arising. Antivirus my brother,you are needed.

I'll aos like to hear what he has to say because he's taken interest in this particular subject.

Andre Uweh: The Igbo ethinic group is same as Igbo ethnic nation to the best of my knowledge.

They aren't.

Put simply, an ethnic group is a socio-cultural awareness, and a nation is a socio-political consciousness. At best, Igbo can really only be called an ethnic group of sorts, and Igbo's socio-political consciousness is negligible; virtually inexistent.

...as I was saying. We understand and speak both...anyway and how we want, interchangeably in one sentence even and so on...
But to avoid long explanations most of the time, when we are asked, we just say Ukwani.

Rocktation: ...as I was saying. We understand and speak both...anyway and how we want, interchangeably in one sentence even and so on...
But to avoid long explanations most of the time, when we are asked, we just say Ukwani.

Now, the question should be; Who are the Ukwuani people? Is it those that were there, those that migrated there or both?

Interesting question. Chicken and egg.
Let's not forget the Benin part of the story too. (Bendel).

Rocktation: Interesting question. Chicken and egg.
Let's not forget the Benin part of the story too. (Bendel).

Do you mind touching on that a little?

I believe similar cultural practices, names and language makes one part of an ethnic group, while ideologies may serve as a delimiter when the issue of nationhood is broached. Put another way Ika, Ikwerre, etc may culturally and linguistically be of Igbo ethnic group, but ideologically different.

PointB: I believe similar cultural practices, names and language makes one part of an ethnic group, while ideologies may serve as a delimiter when the issue of nationhood is broached. Put another way Ika, Ikwerre, etc may culturally and linguistically be of Igbo ethnic group, but ideologically different.

Exactly.

And about denying one's ethnic affiliation, I am sure how this would sound, but I would be interested to hear for instance how an Ameachi would convince a machete weilding Ahmed in Boko territory, that he is not Igbo, he is Ikwerre!

And of course do this in split seconds, minutes at most!

Afam, the majority of Deltans (some people still say) and even a part of Anambra (based on the ubulu migrants now) are originally from Benin.
But I'll use the Ogume people, as examples of typical edo people, as almost all of them, migrated from benin and even still share borders with Edo...even though, they claim Ukwani and fall under the Ndokwa-west category.

Rocktation: Afam, the majority of Deltans (some people still say) and even a part of Anambra (based on the ubulu migrants now) are originally from Benin.
But I'll use the Ogume people, as examples of typical edo people, as almost all of them, migrated from benin and even still share borders with Edo...even though, they claim Ukwani and fall under the Ndokwa-west category.

I knew this is where you were going but i just wanted to hear it from you.

A lot of groups are said to have migrated from the Ancient Benin but origin does not determine one's ethnic stock these days. Infact one of the things some Delta Igbos that deny being Igbos ususally use to support their position is the fact that they migrated from benin. As if sopme of those that migrated from Benin like some parts of Anioma and Onitsha are not proud Igbos today. Who even says that it's in benin that they started out. They must have possibly migrated from somewhere else to benin before heading to their present location. Im my personal opinion, i don't think the Benin of today is the same thing like the Benin of those days. The Benin of those days could have been an amalgam of different tribes.

Language is the major determining factor of ethnicity, that's why common sense will suggest that Ukwuani is linguistically Igbo which invariably makes them ethnically Igbo but not part of the Igbo nation.

ChinenyeN:
They aren't.

Put simply, an ethnic group is a socio-cultural awareness, and a nation is a socio-political consciousness. At best, Igbo can really only be called an ethnic group of sorts, and Igbo's socio-political consciousness is negligible; virtually inexistent.

Please explain to readers here how Igbo socio-political consciousness is virtually inexistent.

Hmmn. Probably.
For the sake of falling into one of the three major ethnic groups, they'd agree. But...
I mean, like what you just relayed about the benins, can't the same be said about the igbos too?

Rocktation: Hmmn. Probably.
For the sake of falling into one of the three major ethnic groups, they'd agree. But...
I mean, like what you just relayed about the benins, can't the same be said about the igbos too?

If you mean being made up of different tribes then yes, it can be said. We're all not necessarily from the the same origin. That's my personal opinion anyway.

Or how was the igbo group even formed? Let me learn something today.

Kk. Hmmn.

Rocktation: Or how was the igbo group even formed? Let me learn something today.

Igbo ethnic group was not formed by humans. It was formed by common sense. Igbo, Hausa and Yoruba were not necessarily lumped as one in the olden days. They lived differently as tribes especially in the case of Igbos. It was the white man that united all the Igboid(Igbo speaking) tribes in order to make easy for them to govern.

Hehe. Interesting. So that should mean that all sensible Nigerians are igbos.
Afam...

Rocktation: Hehe. Interesting. So that should mean that all Nigerians are igbos.
Afam...

When did i say that?

Edited!

I don't get what you're saying...

Another misconception that some Ukwuani people make in thinking that they're different from south east Igbos is that they think we all speak the same dialect. What you hear Igbos speaking is central Igbo and is different from what Ngwa, Nkanu, Onitsha, Arochukwu speak. So, just like Ukwuani, we all have our dialects that may not be understood by Igbo from other places.

Infact, scratch that. I managed to confuse myself too.
#multitasking.

Either way, I'm a winner. I'm Ukwani/Isoko with an Umuahia mother. So all join!

afam4eva: Another misconception that some Ukwuani people make in thinking that they're different from south east Igbos is that they think we all speak the same dialect. What you hear Igbos speaking is central Igbo and is different from what Ngwa, Nkanu, Onitsha, Arochukwu speak. So, just like Ukwuani, we all have our dialects that may not be understood by Igbo from other places.

...so yes, I know this.

Rocktation: Or how was the igbo group even formed? Let me learn something today.

How else could it would have been formed if not the same way Hausa and Yoruba was formed. Or the say way Germans and Italians formed their nations in the late 17th century. Groups who speak similar dialects or languages.
Within those groups especially Yoruba and Hausa, one can be Ekiti and at the same time Yoruba, one can also be Katsina and at the same time Hausa. So why should it be a problem for one to be Ukwuani and Igbo at the same time. Where is this insanity from?.