And we are supposed to take their word for it

there's evidence of evolution while no evidence of the biblical creation. which has more credence to you. even the church u attend has admitted this.

The theory of evolution is not incompatible with belief in God. People should be humble enough to follow the truth whether that truth is offered by science, religion or even by an athesist. Therantiona do not believe in God, the creator and on that note I disagree with him for God is. However his points on evolution is correct in sofar as it refers to the emergence of the complex eukaryotic bodies from simple unicellular organisms. DNA sequence data and fossil records give overwelming evidence that all living things have a common ancestor. No body can refute that. Thus their is the evolution of the physical bodies. However the physical bodies do not represent man, it is merely a dress he or she uses to experience on earth. The spirit or the "soul" which is the actual man did not evolve, it is a gift of God. Believers who oppose  evolution of the human body may do so because the seem to think that evolution came about by itself or just by selection. Therantino and others may see evolution that way but my opinion is that evolution is a means that God used to create the physical body of man and there in lies the difference. Thus since evolution is guided by divine intelligence, then speciation will stop once a particular tree has reached the ultimate point. Thus the physical body of humans is the ultimate with regard to speciation following what I may call the human tree. It is the way God designed it. Thus, the human body as it known today will not in millions of years change to another species. However the genes will continue to evolve as they are subjected to evolutionary pressures but these pressures willnot result in further speciation. The physical bodies of men and the higher apes are closer than we may admit. However the difference lies in the transformation of the otherwise ape-like bodies by the human spirit. Thus it is correct to say that our physical bodies evolved and has close resemblance with an ape like animal but it absolutely wrong to say that man evolved from apes or an extinct ape like animal since man is a living spirit. My view therefore is that the laws of God made evolution possible and God used evolution as a means of creating our physical bodies. The various individual steps is still largely unknown but as men seek to understand the working of God, they may be granted the grace to survey the entire happening that spanned millions of years. It will then be possible for people to identify the transition animals on the various nodes of the human physical body evolutionary tree. More importantly, they will also see why the transition animals at the various nodes became extinct. In summary the human physical body arose out evolution and evolution is the means God used to create not just human bodies but the plethora of living organisms.

The theory of evolution is not incompatible with belief in God.

the catholic church and many scientists differ with this.

@Bawomolu,

Sure many churches think it is incompatible with belief in God but that is their own view. As per scientists especially those that know and work directly with genes, I doubt if they will dispute the theory evolution.

Sure many churches think it is incompatible with belief in God but that is their own view. As per scientists especially those that know and work directly with genes, I doubt if they will dispute the theory evolution.

so do u admit evolution exists??

My view on evolution is already stated in my previous post. The human body arose by the process of evolution. I also stated that evolution is not a cause in itself but is the means that God use to create the human body. I also submitted that the human body is not man but an instruument that man uses to experience while on earth. The real man is the spirit that animates the human body and this spirit did not evolve but came as a gift of God. Thus as long as the theory of evolution deals with the physical body or biological life, then I agree but if it seeks to assume that this biological life is the actual man , then I disagree.

bawomolo:

there's evidence of evolution while no evidence of the biblical creation. which has more credence to you. even the church u attend has admitted this.

These points are from the Catechism of the Catholic Church ->

159. Faith and science: ", methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God.The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." (Vatican II GS 36:1)

283. The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers,

284. The great interest accorded to these studies is strongly stimulated by a question of another order, which goes beyond the proper domain of the natural sciences. It is not only a question of knowing when and how the universe arose physically, or when man appeared, but rather of discovering the meaning of such an origin,

m_nwankwo:

The theory of evolution is not incompatible with belief in God. People should be humble enough to follow the truth whether that truth is offered by science, religion or even by an athesist. Therantiona do not believe in God, the creator and on that note I disagree with him for God is. However his points on evolution is correct in sofar as it refers to the emergence of the complex eukaryotic bodies from simple unicellular organisms. DNA sequence data and fossil records give overwelming evidence that all living things have a common ancestor. No body can refute that. Thus their is the evolution of the physical bodies. However the physical bodies do not represent man, it is merely a dress he or she uses to experience on earth. The spirit or the "soul" which is the actual man did not evolve, it is a gift of God. Believers who oppose evolution of the human body may do so because the seem to think that evolution came about by itself or just by selection. Therantino and others may see evolution that way but my opinion is that evolution is a means that God used to create the physical body of man and there in lies the difference. Thus since evolution is guided by divine intelligence, then speciation will stop once a particular tree has reached the ultimate point. Thus the physical body of humans is the ultimate with regard to speciation following what I may call the human tree. It is the way God designed it. Thus, the human body as it known today will not in millions of years change to another species. However the genes will continue to evolve as they are subjected to evolutionary pressures but these pressures willnot result in further speciation. The physical bodies of men and the higher apes are closer than we may admit. However the difference lies in the transformation of the otherwise ape-like bodies by the human spirit. Thus it is correct to say that our physical bodies evolved and has close resemblance with an ape like animal but it absolutely wrong to say that man evolved from apes or an extinct ape like animal since man is a living spirit. My view therefore is that the laws of God made evolution possible and God used evolution as a means of creating our physical bodies. The various individual steps is still largely unknown but as men seek to understand the working of God, they may be granted the grace to survey the entire happening that spanned millions of years. It will then be possible for people to identify the transition animals on the various nodes of the human physical body evolutionary tree. More importantly, they will also see why the transition animals at the various nodes became extinct. In summary the human physical body arose out evolution and evolution is the means God used to create not just human bodies but the plethora of living organisms.

If you agree that evolution was responsible for "creating" humans, at what point in that evolutionary process did "we" become humans?

1- Was it when we were homo erectus, Homo floresiensis, Homo habilis, etc etc,?

2- What does this mean for the doctrine of Original Sin?

m_nwakwo's submission is still very much shrouded in deep secrecy which i believe he owes the house further elucidation. I belief the two are mutually exclusie. If God created, then there could not have been any evolution and if evolution, then there could not have been God. If you believe the God you belief, then it could not have been difficult for God to create as full humans rather than commit his work to evolution. It dont just tie!

@Therationa,

I guess I am plain enough in my previous posts. I didnot say that evolution was responsible for creating humans. In my submission, I stated that a human being is a spirit with a physical or biological body. Both the spirit and the physical body that it animates are were created by God. The spirit was a direct gift of God and did not evolve from anything physical. Gods laws made evolution of the biological bodies possible, that is, evolution is the mechanism by which God used to create the physical or the human body. All the Homos you mentioned did not belong to the tree from which the human body evolved and that probably will explain why you cannot directly trace the present human body to the bodies of already known apes. The ape like animals from which the human body developed followed an entirely different line as it was guided by divine intellegence. We became humans when God implanted into the ape like body a living spirit, that is instead of an animal soul incarnating into the physical body, a human spirit incarnated. The radiations of the human spirit then transformed the ape-like body into the human body. On earth, we became humans when the spirit created by God took possesion of the physical body.

As per the original sin, what do you mean by that. I need your definition so that I can give my view on what you defined.

m_nwankwo:

@Therationa,

I guess I am plain enough in my previous posts. I didnot say that evolution was responsible for creating humans. In my submission, I stated that a human being is a spirit with a physical or biological body. Both the spirit and the physical body that it animates are were created by God. The spirit was a direct gift of God and did not evolve from anything physical. Gods laws made evolution of the biological bodies possible, that is, evolution is the mechanism by which God used to create the physical or the human body. All the Homos you mentioned did not belong to the tree from which the human body evolved and that probably will explain why you cannot directly trace the present human body to the bodies of already known apes. The ape like animals from which the human body developed followed an entirely different line as it was guided by divine intellegence. We became humans when God implanted into the ape like body a living spirit, that is instead of an animal soul incarnating into the physical body, a human spirit incarnated. The radiations of the human spirit then transformed the ape-like body into the human body. On earth, we became humans when the spirit created by God took possesion of the physical body.

As per the original sin, what do you mean by that. I need your definition so that I can give my view on what you defined.

Your point understood - but how did you come about all of the above? Is there some body of knowledge that describes what you just said? IS there any way in which the soul/body infusion could be verified?

The pre-homo sapien that had souls, could they have been considered "children of god". For instance, would the Neandarthal have had souls? If they did, why did god let them go extinct?

If there never was an Adam & Eve, then there never was Original Sin. That was my point.

@cgift

Thanks for your contribution. There is nothing secret in my submission. Evolution did not bring about itself, that is God actually created evolution and therein lies my point. God created both the human spirit or "soul" and the human body. If God created evolution, while will it be hard to a believer to see that the process of evolution is fufilling the WILL of the creator. Today a fusion of male and female gamete results in the development of the physical body and yet that does not make the couple the creator of the baby since God has already given the sperm and the egg the capability to develop on fusion into a human body. It is in that sense that you should see the coming into being of the human body. The principle of the evolution with respect to the physical human body is correct but it is not yet possible for any body to unravel the various individual stages and time points. Science cannot do that since it observers the PROCESS but not the FORCE that gave rise to the process. Since God, created evolution, only God can reveal the precise individual process, the time points, the transition animals etc. These things rest in the omniscience of God but I have no doubt that someday the entire happening will be revealed to man and even science will be forced to acknowllege the beauty and omnisience of God. Finally, I will be willing to give further explanations if what I have stated therein is not clear enough. Stay blessed.

@Therantino,

Thanks for your input. What I state in my posts is my own perception of what is revealed in the book "In the Light of Truth - The Grail Message. My personal experience both as a scientist and as one who can sense the WILL of God determines what I state in my posts. It is left for people to agree or disagree with it. I also recommend you to read the book entiltled "The Birth of Mankind by Rosellis von Saas. Roselis von Saas is an adherent of the Grail Message and you can obtain her book from Amazon. Using the present techniques of science, it is not possible to verify the entrance of the soul into the body. However using the gifts of God including the ability to sense extra sensory events, it is very possible to give an information and science can then use its instrument to verify it. Just as an example it very possible for "seeing ones" to state clearly the sex of a two hour old embryo and months later science can do the scann and confirm such. Such examples can be replicated under rigorous scientific controls so as to rule out chance or guess work. The tree that finally resulted in the human body is yet unknown to science, Neandarthal do not belong to it. As per Adam and Eve and the original sin, you can start a new thread and I can over my contribution. Thanks.

m_nwankwo:

@Therantino,

Thanks for your input. What I state in my posts is my own perception of what is revealed in the book "In the Light of Truth - The Grail Message. My personal experience both as a scientist and as one who can sense the WILL of God determines what I state in my posts. It is left for people to agree or disagree with it. I also recommend you to read the book entiltled "The Birth of Mankind by Rosellis von Saas. Roselis von Saas is an adherent of the Grail Message and you can obtain her book from Amazon. Using the present techniques of science, it is not possible to verify the entrance of the soul into the body. However using the gifts of God including the ability to sense extra sensory events, it is very possible to give an information and science can then use its instrument to verify it. Just as an example it very possible for "seeing ones" to state clearly the sex of a two hour old embryo and months later science can do the scann and confirm such. Such examples can be replicated under rigorous scientific controls so as to rule out chance or guess work. The tree that finally resulted in the human body is yet unknown to science, Neandarthal do not belong to it. As per Adam and Eve and the original sin, you can start a new thread and I can over my contribution. Thanks.

My problem with this is that none of it constitute objective verifiable knowlege.

I have got a thread on original sin on https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115525.0.html.

@Therantiona,

Thanks for the link.

Charles Darwin -> BEFORE EVOLUTION AND AFTER EVOLUTION

@M_Nwankwo:

@cgift
Thanks for your contribution. There is nothing secret in my submission. Evolution did not bring about itself, that is God actually created evolution and therein lies my point. God created both the human spirit or "soul" and the human body. If God created evolution, while will it be hard to a believer to see that the process of evolution is fufilling the WILL of the creator. Today a fusion of male and female gamete results in the development of the physical body and yet that does not make the couple the creator of the baby since God has already given the sperm and the egg the capability to develop on fusion into a human body. It is in that sense that you should see the coming into being of the human body. The principle of the evolution with respect to the physical human body is correct but it is not yet possible for any body to unravel the various individual stages and time points. Science cannot do that since it observers the PROCESS but not the FORCE that gave rise to the process. Since God, created evolution, only God can reveal the precise individual process, the time points, the transition animals etc. These things rest in the omniscience of God but I have no doubt that someday the entire happening will be revealed to man and even science will be forced to acknowllege the beauty and omnisience of God.

M_Nwankwo, you andme must get together, someday and soon. You sound to good to be a Christian, yet you are. But you are inching forward into Is'lam. For example your components, soul or spirit and body that makes a man is on the spot. The fact that you said that Soul or spirit is a creation of God is correct. And finally, 2 days ago, I posted in a thread on nairaland that evolution is a process that is within religious possibility; Afterall it is God that put the process of evolution in place in the birth of a human baby; From fusion of male sperm with female egg. This two matters, by the time the baby is born, would have evolved into something that does not remotely resemble either one of them. Finally, there is no Doctor that cam give the specific time, to the exact second that a baby will be delivered!

Will you please have the courage to read the Qur'an and take your oath of reversion to Is'lam. The best before Is'lam are alsways the best when they enter Is'lam. And by the way, Is'lam is taking roots in Igboland. Will you help in watering it to a healthy vegetation? God will reward you greatly for it.

What is so interesting is that most of the things you believe in, eg Soul meaning Spirit in man is not believed by the Christian and is against Biblical writing. Yet you are correct, and it is what we in Is'lam believe. About Soul or spirit being the creation of God, it is not what Christendom and its book believe, but this is exactly what th Mus'lim and Qur'an say.

I bet the day that you recognise that holy spirit is not more than an Angel and it is Angel Gabreil, and when you realise that Jesus was no more than a Messenger and prophet of God, I am of the believe that you will hurry to become Mus'lim, because trinity will be dead in your heart and there is no doubt that the day will come very quicky for you. You have a good heart and it is ready for guidance.

Stimulus, SysUser, Sincere !, copy M_Nwankwo, in the way he approaches questions; he answers directly with relevant materials. Thats how to dialogue or argue a point.

ohhhh boring boring talk
yakiti yakiti yak, aaaahhhhhhh!! mmmmhhh,

conclusion JESUS NA GOD

@Olabowale,

Thanks for your kind words. Thank also for inviting me to examine islam. I have said previously that I belong to no religion. Truth is Truth and it trancends all religions. In my process of seeking God, I have examined seriously all the known religions including Islam. That was years ago. In all of them I found gems of the truth but not the totality of the Truth. My seeking continued until years later I had a spiritual encounter that led me to the work "In The Light of Truth - The Grail Message" I will not go into the personal spiritual encounter that led me to the Grail Message in these pages. Suffice to mention that that encounter transformed me and Gods grace allowed me to sense the will of God. Thus today, I only study the Grail Message and associated writings. When sacred texts of world religions are offered to me, I take them and do not read them or I simply decline. The reason being that I have found the totality of Truth in the Grail Message and also have being permitted the grace to "see" things that are closed to the average person. Recognition of the whole truth makes me to to state in my posts as follows:

1. That the concept of Trinity is true
2. That Jesus is the son of God, a part of God or God the son. He is not a prophet since the inner core of all prohets known to man is spirit and not divine unsubstantiate. All prohets are creatures of God but Jesus is not a creature but part of the creator.
3. That Mohammed, Buddah, Lao Tse, Zoroster, Moses, Lorber, Elijah, Bahaullah, Daniel, Krishna and many others are all genuine prophets of God. All these prophets gave recognitions that if they have been preserved pure by their followers would have led to the to the whole Truth as explained by Jesus and the Grail Message.


Once again, thanks for your warm thoughts. I wish strenghth and stay blessed.

@M_Nwankwo:

Thanks for your kind words. Thank also for inviting me to examine the great religion. I have said previously that I belong to no religion. Truth is Truth and it trancends all religions. In my process of seeking God, I have examined seriously all the known religions including The Great Religion. That was years ago. In all of them I found gems of the truth but not the totality of the Truth. My seeking continued until years later I had a spiritual encounter that led me to the work "In The Light of Truth - The Grail Message" I will not go into the personal spiritual encounter that led me to the Grail Message in these pages. Suffice to mention that that encounter transformed me and Gods grace allowed me to sense the will of God. Thus today, I only study the Grail Message and associated writings. When sacred texts of world religions are offered to me, I take them and do not read them or I simply decline. The reason being that I have found the totality of Truth in the Grail Message and also have being permitted the grace to "see" things that are closed to the average person. Recognition of the whole truth makes me to to state in my posts as follows:

I admire your conviction. But i think the grail message at best is a subset of Christianity. However I believe that the true holy grail itself is nothing other than the untorned letter from what Prophet "Muhammad" (as) commissioned to the rulers of the world powers when God Almighty commanded him to call the whole world to the religion of "Is'lam." Some kings/rulers tore their copies as they were delivered and invited to enter "Is'lam." When the emissaries of the messenger told him that a ruler tore his invitation letter, the Prophet invoked God to tear the kingdom of that ruler. And in no time, the kingdom of that ruler was decimated.

Finally, a ruler who had not torn his own letter of Invitation from "Muhammad", kept the copy intact. And his kingdom remained intact and not decimated. Do your research. You may find out the truth. The real truth. Sometimes one thinks he/she has gotten to the end of the ride, but it is still many stops to the destination!

1. That the concept of Trinity is true

I wonder if you mean the Trinity that is more theoretical in Christianity than substantive, or the ones in the older world religions, eg. Hinduism, etc? How do you have a painting that is not titled and then somebody else wrote a history book and from it, you find the title based on the coloring pattern, as an example? If you are not a Christian how can you believe the concept of Christian trinity, unless you are fooling us by your disingenous answer, claiming that you are not a christian, or you are not sure what the essence of that Christian thought is concerning it? I wonder what happened when god died, I mean god the son? Doesn't that weakened and cheapened the authority and power of the "god"?

2. That Jesus is the son of God, a part of God or God the son. He is not a prophet since the inner core of all prohets known to man is spirit and not divine unsubstantiate. All prohets are creatures of God but Jesus is not a creature but part of the creator.

So when Jesus was arrested, tried and passed a death judgement on his head, tortured on the way to the hanging or crucification, etc, you are saying that son of god, part of god and God Himself went through all of these? Have you considered what Jesus himself said in Mark 12 Verse 29, which is contrary to the fact that he could be any part of God, son, part of or God? Do you also know that jesus himself described himself as a prophet, hence to deny him what he said about himself, is truly not knowing anything that he said about himself, or disregarding him completely? To say that Jesus was not part of the creations, as a human being shows from your judgement that God is more than One and true Creator are more than One. Then there is no wonder that we find Christian ideas as unconsolidated, but of course, in your case, you are not a Christian!

3. That The Great Prophet, Buddah, Lao Tse, Zoroster, Moses, Lorber, Elijah, Bahaullah, Daniel, Krishna and many others are all genuine prophets of God. All these prophets gave recognitions that if they have been preserved pure by their followers would have led to the to the whole Truth as explained by Jesus and the Grail Message.

If one were to accept your hypothesis, what happened to the whole Truth as explained by "Muhammad" who came after Jesus? Afterall, if you take it that Jesus truth as he explained it have been preserved, I wonder i you got that truth from the Bible or somewhere else? And finally, what about the truth that are missing in the bible that "Muhammad (as)" has in the Qur'an that "Allah" revealed to him?

Wouldn't this make Al Qur'an superior to the Bible or at least more detailed? Let me give you an example: Moses led the Children of Israel out of Egypt. But at the red sea, Pharaoh wanted to overtake them, and returned them to the slavery they just left. Moses used his staff to open 12 tribal pathways to them in the sea, to cross and escape Pharaoh's wrath. As they crossed, Pharaoh ws drunk with rage and power to return them. So he went he and his army into the water, and tried to cross in the same way as the Children of Israel to the other side. When they all were in the middle of the sea, the walls of water collapsed on the army and pharaoh and perished.

Here is the difference between Is'lamic understanding versus Biblical understanding of the same incident.

1) The Muslims say that Pharaoh went in the sea and perished with his army. But the Christians say he did not perish, but do not explain if he went in the water with his army in the first place. And if he did, how did he escape and everyone perished, including all his generals. if he did not go into the water, one will ask the question, how a king can lead an escortion, yet refuses to lead by example? Even a Captain of a sinking ship is always in the last saved or he perishes with the ship.

2) The Muslims say that the water threw out the lifeless body of Pharaoh, on a hill/high place, so that the Children of Israel can see that their great enemy is dead, therefore their hearts became peaceful and knew that there will not be Pharaoh running after them. But since the Christians do not believe that he did not perish, how was it that he did not mount another campaign against them, regardless of the difficulty, based on his previous actions?

3) I think you should ask the Egyptians how the pharaoh of Moses died and where they found him? You will realise that Is'lamic explanation is correct nd what is in the Bible is incorrect.

I wish you well. You are the one who needs to change your destiny, God then will change your destiny. Amiin.


Once again, thanks for your warm thoughts. I wish strenghth and stay blessed.

@Olabowale,

Thanks for your submission. I will address some of the issues you raised as follows:

1. The Grail Message is not a religion. It is simply a revealation of the Truth and Truth trancends all religion. It is left for human beings to examine the Grail Message and take their decision. God gave man the ability of free will and this free will is so free that man can also even use it to oppose the will of his maker. However free will comes with responsiblity. Human beings are free to make a decision but they are bound irrevocably to the consequences of their own decision. Thus it is left for men to decide either to accept or reject the Grail Message. Their experiences as the journey in the creations of God will at some point give them tangible evidence of wheather or not their decision is acccording to the WILL of God.

2. A christian is a follower of the teachings of the son of God, Jesus. It does not refer to an organization, a religion, a church or a sect. Jesus the son of God proclaimed the complete Truth for HE is the Truth and the truth he proclaimed vibrates in the entire creation. It is not limited to a book but is alive and any human being who genuinely strives to recognise and follow God will at a point in his seeking recognise that Jesus is the son of God. When God created human beings he imbued us with a spiritual faculty, this faculty if left pure can always recognise the WILL of God. One can say that man is hardwired to recognise his creator and even if it takes millenium each person will be permitted very clear, demonstrable evidence that God is, that his son Jesus is and that the Holyspirit is. It is then left for the person to make a decision. Any person who have a personal recognition of Jesus as the son of God and follows the teachings of Jesus is a christian and I am one. A christian is not a person who belongs to the religion christianity but one who have recognised the WILL of God and lives according. Every true seeker of God will recognise Jesus as the son of God, will recognise prohets Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Elijah etc as genuine messengers of God.

3. There is only one God, one creator and he is known to all his creations as God the Father. When God the father decided to bring creations into a existence, a part of God the father became personal and brought the entire creations into a existence. That part of God the father that brought the whole creation into existence is known as the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brought all creations into existence, governs the whole creations and maintains the whole creations. Part of the activities that emanate from the Holy Spirit is what men called the laws of Nature. Although the Holy Spirit is the part of the Father that became personal in creating, it is still one with the Father. As humanity disobeyed the laws of God, mankind was in the danger of spiritual death because of our sins. The power of the various prophets which God continaully sent to various peoples was not strong enough to dispense the darkness and save men from their sins. Their is only one possiblity for help, God has to intervene by sending himself into creation. It is important to note that God is outside his creations, his work. To enter into his work, God has to be incarnated on Earth. Out of love for his creatures, God the Father "severed" a part of himself and incarnated it in a male sex - Jesus of Nazareth. Because Jesus is a part of God the Father is the reason why he proclaimed "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me". Therefore it is only God the father that works as three. Therein lies the concept of Trinity!
These things are I saying here is revealed to mankind in the Grail Message. The Grail Message reveals that only Jesus, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit can see God the Father since they are parts of HIM.

4. When God enters his work as happened in the incarnation of Jesus, that incarnated part of God is subject to the laws of God vibrating on earth. Thus he has to be born of a woman, he has to have a human body, he has to be born as a child. he has to eat, drink etc. He has to await the development of his physical body particularly the brain. That the physical body of Jesus was subjected to turtue, murder etc is simply because they body was physical ,and the physical body is just an instrument Jesus used on earth. The GOD that is JESUS is not the physical body. Thus is ironic that you are equating Jesus to be his physical body by saying that god died. What felt hunger, what was turtured, what was murdered was the physical body of Jesus not the God that is Jesus. Even the human soul cannot die by destroying the physical body, and yet in order to support your argument, you say that Jesus, a part of the our died because his physical body was destroyed. There is not much to say on this since the difference is very clear.

5. God is the living Truth and only HIM can proclaim the eternal truth. Jesus proclaimed the eternal truth because he is part of the living truth, he carried the living Truth with himself. Prophets are messagers of God and are creatures. They cannot proclaim the eternal truth since they do not carry withing themself the living truth. Prophets bring recognitions which they gain by opening themselves to the power of God. Thus with prophets, it is a question of what was shown to them from ABOVE and whatever is shown to them is limited by the fact that they are spirits orcreatures , not part of the Creator. A son of God carries the source within himself, thus in the case of Jesus it a from ABOVE downwards, the very opposite of the way prophets draw their knowlege. A son of God knows the entire happening and can clearly see everthing simmultenouly. A prophet or messenger of God can only see what is shown to him or her and what ever is shown is limited by the fact that the prophet is a creature not part of the creator. No prophet can see things beyound his or her origin.

6. Comparison of the sacred texts of numerous religious do not bring a human spirit one step to heaven. God created men without religion and he will save men without religion too. Religion is at best an endevour by man to understand his maker. This endevour however is not the same as understanding his maker. The laws of God do not respect religion, races, sexes, colour etc. Murder is murder wheather it is commited by a person who belongs to christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc. Purity, humility, courage, compassion, heroism, and other virtues vibrates in the WILL of God and the religious toga of one who has these virtues is immaterail. In the eyes of God it is how our action, words, thoughts and intuition are for or against Gods will that matters. It is ironic that we waste so much time over trivialities of religions. "Love God with all your heart and Love your Neighbour as your self" Whoever is able to do this is serving God and will definetely attain all the neceaasry recognitions. As a crown for obeying Gods will, such a person will be granted the highest grace of God, the sacred honour to serve G

@Olabowale,

Thanks for your submission. I will address some of the issues you raised as follows:

1. The Grail Message is not a religion. It is simply a revealation of the Truth and Truth trancends all religion. It is left for human beings to examine the Grail Message and take their decision. God gave man the ability of free will and this free will is so free that man can even use it to oppose the will of his maker. However, free will comes with responsiblity. Human beings are free to make a decision but they are bound irrevocably to the consequences of their own decision. Thus it is left for men to decide either to accept or reject the Grail Message. Their experiences as the journey in the creations of God will at some point give them tangible evidence of wheather or not their decision is acccording to the WILL of God.

2. A christian is a follower of the teachings of the son of God, Jesus. It does not refer to an organization, a religion, a church or a sect. Jesus the son of God proclaimed the complete Truth for HE is the Truth and the truth he proclaimed vibrates in the entire creation. It is not limited to a book but is alive and any human being who genuinely strives to recognise and follow God will at a point in his seeking recognise that Jesus is the son of God. When God created human beings he imbued us with a spiritual faculty, this faculty if left pure can always recognise the WILL of God. One can say that man is hardwired to recognise his creator and even if it takes millenium each person will be permitted very clear, demonstrable evidence that God is, that his son Jesus is and that the Holyspirit is. It is then left for the person to make a decision. Any person who have a personal recognition of Jesus as the son of God and follows the teachings of Jesus is a christian and I am permitted by his grace to be a christian. A christian is not a person who belongs to the religion christianity but one who have recognised the WILL of God and lives according. Every true seeker of God will recognise Jesus as the son of God, will recognise The Great Prophet, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Elijah etc as genuine messengers or prophets of God.

3. There is only one God, one creator and he is known to all his creations as God the Father. When God the father decided to bring creations into a existence, a part of God the father became personal and brought the entire creations into a existence. That part of God the father that brought the whole creation into existence is known as the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brought all creations into existence, governs the whole creations and maintains the whole creations. Part of the activities that emanate from the Holy Spirit is what men called the laws of Nature. Although the Holy Spirit is the part of the Father that became personal in creating, it is still one with the Father. As humanity disobeyed the laws of God, mankind was in the danger of spiritual death because of our sins. The power of the various prophets which God continually sent to various peoples was not strong enough to dispense the darkness and save men from their sins. Their is only one possiblity for help, God has to intervene by sending himself into creation. It is important to note that God is outside his creations, his work. To enter into his work, God has to be incarnated on Earth. Out of love for his creatures, God the Father "severed" a part of himself and incarnated it in a male sex - Jesus of Nazareth. Because Jesus is a part of God the Father he can proclaimed "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me". Therefore it is only God the father that works as three. Therein lies the concept of Trinity!
These things are revealed to mankind in the Grail Message. The Grail Message reveals that only Jesus, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit can see God the Father since they are parts of HIM.

4. When God enters his work as happened in the incarnation of Jesus, that incarnated part of God is subject to the laws of God vibrating on earth. Thus he has to be born of a woman, he has to have a human body, he has to be born as a child. he has to eat, drink etc. He has to await the development of his physical body particularly the brain. That the physical body of Jesus was subjected to turtue, murder etc is simply because the body was physical ,and the physical body is just an instrument Jesus used on earth. The GOD that is JESUS is not the physical body. Thus, it is ironic that you are equating Jesus to be his physical body by saying that god died. What felt hunger, what was turtured, what was murdered was the physical body of Jesus not the God that is Jesus. Even the human soul cannot die by destroying the physical body, and yet in order to support your argument, you say that Jesus, a part of the our creator died because his physical body was destroyed. There is not much to say on this since the difference is very clear.

5. God is the living Truth and only HIM can proclaim the eternal truth. Jesus proclaimed the eternal truth because he is part of the living truth, he carried the living Truth with himself. Prophets are messagers of God and are creatures. They cannot proclaim the eternal truth since they do not carry withing themself the living truth. Prophets bring recognitions which they gain by opening themselves to the power of God. Thus with prophets, it is a question of what was shown to them from ABOVE and whatever is shown to them is limited by the fact that they are spirits or creatures , not part of the Creator. A son of God carries the source within himself, thus in the case of Jesus it is from ABOVE downwards, the very opposite of the way prophets draw their knowlege. A son of God knows the entire happening and can clearly see every thing simmultenouly. A prophet or messenger of God can only see what is shown to him or her and what ever is shown is limited by the fact that the prophet is a creature not part of the creator. No prophet can see things beyound his or her spiritual origin. Trinity lies beyound the grasp of the spiritual.

6. Comparison of the sacred texts of numerous religious do not bring a human spirit one step to heaven. God created men without religion and he will save men without religion too. Religion is at best an endevour by man to understand his maker. This endevour however is not the same as understanding his maker. The laws of God do not respect religion, races, sexes, colour etc. Murder is murder wheather it is commited by a person who belongs to christianity, The Great Religion, Buddhism etc. Purity, humility, courage, compassion, heroism, and other virtues vibrates in the WILL of God and the religious toga of one who has these virtues is immaterail. In the eyes of God it is how our action, words, thoughts and intuition are for or against Gods will that matters. It is ironic that we waste so much time over trivialities of religions. "Love God with all your heart and Love your Neighbour as your self" Whoever is able to do this is serving God and will definetely attain all the neceaasry recognitions. As a crown for obeying Gods will, such a person will be granted the highest grace of God, the sacred honour to serve God for all etenity. However he who doesnot fulfll these simple injuction of God will be cast out of Gods creations, and will undergo spiritual death no matter his or her religion!

@M_Nwankwo: Thanks for your response. I will just touch up a little to show the incompleteness of the thought that God will have a need for sons, or even a son and that Jesus could ever be more than a mere mortal.

Thanks for your submission. I will address some of the issues you raised as follows:

1. The Grail Message is not a religion. It is simply a revealation of the Truth and Truth trancends all religion. It is left for human beings to examine the Grail Message and take their decision.

If the rail message is not a religion, then definitely it is not part of Christianity. Is this what you are saying? And is the revelation of the truth, as you are saying the grail message is found in a book or just every one who believes in it, receive their own individual revelation? How do you know it is a grail message then and it is the truth? Could it be a decit of the devil, since you may not even have a potential base before you received this revelation and what to reference the truth on, in the first place? Let me make myself clear here: You have to be able to define coloration before you can tell a person what a particular color is rather than other colorations. For example green is definitely different from white.

God gave man the ability of free will and this free will is so free that man can even use it to oppose the will of his maker. However, free will comes with responsiblity. Human beings are free to make a decision but they are bound irrevocably to the consequences of their own decision. Thus it is left for men to decide either to accept or reject the Grail Message. Their experiences as the journey in the creations of God will at some point give them tangible evidence of wheather or not their decision is acccording to the WILL of God.

If this grail message does not bound Ibrahiim, who God called Friend, and from him all prophets after him came, including Jesus, I truly wonder the importance of the grail message. Afterall, God made Moses victorious without the grail Message. Afterall Jesus delivered his ministry and there was no time he mentioned the grail Message. Then Mustafa bin Abdallah delivered his message without mentioning the grail Message. Could this grail message be an organisation like the Masonic and other so called spiritual organizations? Afterall below you are saying that one can be in the fold of the grail message and still a Christian as well. It needs a better and specific ubderstanding from you. You were very generic above.

2. A christian is a follower of the teachings of the son of God, Jesus. It does not refer to an organization, a religion, a church or a sect.

I would therefore take it that a Christian can worship in the Jewish temple and synagogue, just like Jesus did? I will spare you and me the agony of a complex explanation if I put Is'alimic Mosque, and hindu temple and others in the mix for you to provide clarification. But no Christian has ever gone to these places for their regular worship. And is it possible to be a Christian and never attend any church? What when the person dies, which group does the burial, and in your case it will be the grail messege group?

Jesus the son of God proclaimed the complete Truth for HE is the Truth and the truth he proclaimed vibrates in the entire creation. It is not limited to a book but is alive and any human being who genuinely strives to recognise and follow God will at a point in his seeking recognise that Jesus is the son of God. When God created human beings he imbued us with a spiritual faculty, this faculty if left pure can always recognise the WILL of God. One can say that man is hardwired to recognise his creator and even if it takes millenium each person will be permitted very clear, demonstrable evidence that God is, that his son Jesus is and that the Holyspirit is. It is then left for the person to make a decision. Any person who have a personal recognition of Jesus as the son of God and follows the teachings of Jesus is a christian and I am permitted by his grace to be a christian. A christian is not a person who belongs to the religion christianity but one who have recognised the WILL of God and lives according. Every true seeker of God will recognise Jesus as the son of God, will recognise The Great Prophet, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Elijah etc as genuine messengers or prophets of God.

All that you have said is gotten from the holy Bible, I believe or from the grail message? The only thing I agree with you on is the fact that man is hardwired to know about the existence of God. However, the rest, especially as it concerns the sonship, fathership and holy spiritship, etc are matters of conjecture. You as a scientist have just followed the supposition of others before you and can not provide any cemented proof. But of course, you have the freewill to accept anything as your soul agrees along with the agreement of your heart.

3. There is only one God, one creator and he is known to all his creations as God the Father.

I am concluding from your statement here that those who do not call this God father are not from His creation, then? I am very certain Angel gabreil, Angel Michael just to name a few do not call Him father. How then do you explain this deficiency in the Angels and people who do not call Him father? Or is the true deficiency as to be astray on the people who call Him father?

When God the father decided to bring creations into a existence, a part of God the father became personal and brought the entire creations into a existence. That part of God the father that brought the whole creation into existence is known as the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brought all creations into existence, governs the whole creations and maintains the whole creations. Part of the activities that emanate from the Holy Spirit is what men called the laws of Nature. Although the Holy Spirit is the part of the Father that became personal in creating, it is still one with the Father.

Uh? But God Himself created the Angels and it was the holy spirit that created Gabreil, etc. God Himself created Adam and it was not the holy spirit that created him. God Himself created Eve and it was not the holy ghost that created him! Ideas like these are tantanimous to not being a true believer in the able power of the only God almighty the creator!

As humanity disobeyed the laws of God, mankind was in the danger of spiritual death because of our sins. The power of the various prophets which God continually sent to various peoples was not strong enough to dispense the darkness and save men from their sins. Their is only one possiblity for help, God has to intervene by sending himself into creation. It is important to note that God is outside his creations, his work. To enter into his work, God has to be incarnated on Earth. Out of love for his creatures, God the Father "severed" a part of himself and incarnated it in a male sex - Jesus of Nazareth. Because Jesus is a part of God the Father he can proclaimed "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me". Therefore it is only God the father that works as three. Therein lies the concept of Trinity!

Nice try my friend. But no cigar! This explanation above is not more than a concortion to arrive, all of a sudden at Trinity, a word that do not even appear in the Bible! It is what we call a shurdy job, and nothing more than trying to snowball the readers or listeners at all time. Let me tell you why it is not possible to spring Trinity, a word which means 3 gods on any rightly guided soul and expect acceptance; First Jesus himself said that he was not God by his simple verse found in the book of Mark. Read Mark 12 Verse 29 and you will have no doubt, if you are seeking the truth, but to take jesus at his words, even starting on the face value of this verse. I am very clear that between Jesus and anyone in the fold of christianity, from his companions onward to the last man in Christianity, Jesus is the one who knows God better, and he is the one who knows his own relationship better with that God, etc. And it is not the other way around. If Jesus statement is completely opposite to what any person in Christendom says, I will accept Jesus statement and reject all others. How do we know what Jesus said? Each one of them will be dirrectly in line and not opposing any truth that can be attributed to any previous prophet before him.

Of course, it is very difficult to separate what they and Jesus said from the Bible. The Bible has been watered down and rendered impure as it was when each prophet was receiving revelation and was alive to correct would be corrupters. Now this is where you have Qur'an, Is'lam and "Muhammad" come in: He said that he receive revelations, which is called Qur'an. His revelation period extend to the end of his life, from the very first time he received the first few verses. He said that he was receiving it from Gabreil who was the conduit from God directly. In one occassion, he "Muhammad" said that he went to heavens directly and received some verses without gabreil being the conduit this time. In that special revelation, he received the instructions and full procedure of Is'lamic prayer called Salah. Qur'an revealed that Trinity does not occur and God is not three but One. And Jesus is not god, part of god or son of god! If anything is ever going to make this non existing word in the Bible very clear, it is the Qur'an. First the Bible did not have the word in itself, but the Qur'an is bold enough as it contains this word and provide iconoclastic impossibily for its falsehood.

There are many verses of the Qur'an that kills this weak concept of trinity; One verse commanded "Muhammad" to say to the people that if God were to have a son, he "Muhammad" will be the first to worship him. You see that it was negated right from the start. Another states that if God were to take for Himself a son, He could have chosen from any of His creations. Another negation of possibility, that God does not need a human being, Jesus as a son. Another verse tell mankind to consider that if there is more than one God, at least one of the other gods would try to rival God the Almighty. Another verse speaks about a subordinate who has just one Master and another who has many Masters, and each master is trying to fulfill his own agenda, which of the subordinate will have a clear mandate to do the job, the one who has one master or the one who has more masters but each master desires his own agenda to be fulfilled first? The answer is very clear. Another verse speaks about the creation of Jesus as similar to the creation of Adam, a process that start with God's commandment of "Be, and it is!"

These things are revealed to mankind in the Grail Message. The Grail Message reveals that only Jesus, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit can see God the Father since they are parts of HIM.

As I further read your message, it sounds as if there is a cultist undertone in grail message. Alhamdulillah I am a Mus'lim and Is'lam does not permits accepting anything along with God!

4. When God enters his work as happened in the incarnation of Jesus, that incarnated part of God is subject to the laws of God vibrating on earth. Thus he has to be born of a woman, he has to have a human body, he has to be born as a child. he has to eat, drink etc. He has to await the development of his physical body particularly the brain. That the physical body of Jesus was subjected to turtue, murder etc is simply because the body was physical ,and the physical body is just an instrument Jesus used on earth. The GOD that is JESUS is not the physical body. Thus, it is ironic that you are equating Jesus to be his physical body by saying that god died. What felt hunger, what was turtured, what was murdered was the physical body of Jesus not the God that is Jesus. Even the human soul cannot die by destroying the physical body, and yet in order to support your argument, you say that Jesus, a part of the our creator died because his physical body was destroyed. There is not much to say on this since the difference is very clear.

You are right that there is not much to say, but you have just proven my point that even man who is not a prophet, has a soul andthe soul does not die! This is exactly my point because you have not proven beyond anything that you can cull up from the Bible about Jesus! Your grail message is nothing more than concortion from the Bible splices with Occult process. But it is your Bible that says that Jesus died, which is against what the Mus'lim believes. You are the same who called him creator. If he died what you have said was that your creator died. We in Is'lam have a completely different view: God is separate, Jesus is servant/slave and creation God. Jesus did not died on the cross, but at appointed time taken up, body and soul.

5. God is the living Truth and only HIM can proclaim the eternal truth. Jesus proclaimed the eternal truth because he is part of the living truth, he carried the living Truth with himself. Prophets are messagers of God and are creatures. They cannot proclaim the eternal truth since they do not carry withing themself the living truth. Prophets bring recognitions which they gain by opening themselves to the power of God. Thus with prophets, it is a question of what was shown to them from ABOVE and whatever is shown to them is limited by the fact that they are spirits or creatures , not part of the Creator.

I am not arguing with you, but just pointing out inconsistencies in Christian belief. And in your case, the added grail message. I am sure Noah, Ibrahiim, Moses, etc, proclaimed the complete truth to their people. I wonder how you will reconcile Mark 12 Verse 29 in the light of your statement above?

A son of God carries the source within himself, thus in the case of Jesus it is from ABOVE downwards, the very opposite of the way prophets draw their knowlege. A son of God knows the entire happening and can clearly see every thing simmultenouly. A prophet or messenger of God can only see what is shown to him or her and what ever is shown is limited by the fact that the prophet is a creature not part of the creator. No prophet can see things beyound his or her spiritual origin. Trinity lies beyound the grasp of the spiritual.

I am very clear that if I press you hard about many things you say, you will just tell me to believe. This is what I have been reading from you. There is no explanation even in the Bible, except that we must just belief. Finally, you did not know aything about the Al Qur'an, whatsoever. I wonder why Jesus did not know when the world will end?

6. Comparison of the sacred texts of numerous religious do not bring a human spirit one step to heaven. God created men without religion and he will save men without religion too. Religion is at best an endevour by man to understand his maker. This endevour however is not the same as understanding his maker.

I guess somebody should have told Paul and the companions of Jesus and even jesus himself, before they organised Christianity and in the case of Jesus, mentioning building his church on Peter the "Rock!"

The laws of God do not respect religion, races, sexes, colour etc. Murder is murder wheather it is commited by a person who belongs to christianity, The Great Religion, Buddhism etc. Purity, humility, courage, compassion, heroism, and other virtues vibrates in the WILL of God and the religious toga of one who has these virtues is immaterail. In the eyes of God it is how our action, words, thoughts and intuition are for or against Gods will that matters. It is ironic that we waste so much time over trivialities of religions. "Love God with all your heart and Love your Neighbour as your self" Whoever is able to do this is serving God and will definetely attain all the neceaasry recognitions. As a crown for obeying Gods will, such a person will be granted the highest grace of God, the sacred honour to serve God for all etenity. However he who doesnot fulfll these simple injuction of God will be cast out of Gods creations, and will undergo spiritual death no matter his or her religion!

Again, you have killed religion and the process of worship, obedience to God the Almighty and the doing of good deeds for the pleasure of god. What you have said is that an Atheist or Agnostic people will enter the bliss and are in the grace of God, but a religious person who believes, in truth and in the way God has commanded that He be believed and worshipped, but if this person does not have any ability to do "good" but does not do any evil will not have the same condition with God.

But I see that you have not recognised is that God is not just love alone, but He has Anger and punishes, too. Afterall, He created hellfire or what the Christian calls the lake of fire. My point is this, religion is very important, but it has to be the religion ordained for mankind by God Almighty Himself alone! That religion is a process of obedience to god in His commandments; The name of that religion is not Christianity, for Christianity is man made. And it is not judaism as well, now hindu and others. But it is Is'am that is the name of that religion. Go back and do a good research with objectivity of mind and soul. But you have to separate yourself from the misgivngs and true belief does not include the secret society membership.

@Olabowale,

Thanks for your submission. I will address some of the points you raised as follows:

1. What is Truth and how do you recognise the Truth? Truth is God. God manifests in its activities and these activities always reflect the nature of the creator. This reflection of God, of eternal Truth carries justice, love, perfection, immutability, unchangebilty. Therefore what ever is true is perfect, and will swing in the vibrations of justice and love. Anything that is not perfect or subject to further development or contradicts love and justice is not true. To use an earthly example, if you sow corn, you reap corn in multiples. The same act of sowing and reaping in an earthly sense also operates with respect to our thoughts, words and deeds. Thus the laws of sowing and reaping is a manifestation of Truth. Jesus has already summed up the nature of activity that corresponds with obedience to the will of God when he declared " Love God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself". This commandment of Jesus can only be fuflled by one who have truely recognised God. A fruit cannot be different from the seed. "By their works, ye shall know them". This simple phrase is a yardstick to measure wheather a book, an experience, a revealation is true or not. It will be a waste of time for people to gather in a small farm and be arguing wheather or not what the farmer sowed is yam, tomatoe or orange. All they need is to wait for harvest and the fruit will demonstrate the seed that was sown.

2. Gods laws stands above all religions, so is worship of God. Indeed the true worship of God solely lies in obedience to the will of God. You obey the will of God with what you do with your activities - your thoughts, words, actions and intuition. I will return to this later if you are interested in discussing what is the will of God.

3. Your assertions about the Grail Message is your opinion and you are entiltled to it. However I am not sure you have studied the Grail Message. If you have you would have brought forth the things you disagree with and the reasons why you do so.

4. I have in my submissions tried to show that Gods laws are independent of religious organization. In heaven their is no christianity, Islam, Budhism etc but only those who have recognised the laws of God and live according to it. It is really strange that many believe that religion is the same thing as living according to the will of God. On earth for instance, you have the physical law of gravitation. If a christian, a moslem, a budhist throws up an apple in the air, the apple will come down. The apple will not say, I will hang in the air because the thrower is a christian or that I will fall because the thrower is a budhist. Alll the throwers irrespective of what religion they belong to engaged in the same action which must ellicit the same reaction. Just another earthly example, if a christian, a budhist, an islamist, an adherent of the Grail Message etc puts his naked hand on a high tension wire, he will recieve a massive volt of electrical shock and the shock willnot differentiate between their religious toga. These simple earthly examples also apply to spiritual things. Sin is sin and it will only result in death and ones earthly religious toga ccannot nulify the consequence of sin. All I am saying is that the reaction from an action is determined by the nature of the action. I hope I have made myself a bit clearer.

5. The subject is the concept of Trinity. I understand your views but I do not agree with them. I have given reasons why I know that Trinity is true and that should suffice. Your inference from my use of God the father is not correct. The point I am making is that it is the same God the father that is the Father, the son and the Holyspirit.

6. Earthly righteousness is not the same thing as righteouness in the eyes of God. Jesus has given to mankind the correct and right way to righteousness in his Message. Jesus summed up how we should leave a pleasing life to God in the LORDS PRAYER.

7. Jesus did not found a church or a religion. He simply showed men the will of his father and give them the power to live their life according to Gods will if they so choose. The interpretation that Jesus established christianity through Peter is incorrect. The rock Jesus mentioned does not refer to Peter as a person but to the conviction that peter was permitted to recieve. That conviction is that Jesus is the son of the living God. It is this conviction that is the rock, not peter. He who truely believes that Jesus is the son of the living God can do nothing but follow the teachings of Jesus and the teaching of Jesus is obedience to the will of God.

8. I am discussing with you. My point is to share my convictions on the subject matter. I do not want to convince you or prove to you that what I am saying is the Truth. I respect whatever people are genuinely convinced about even when I disagree with it. That is why in my submissions I try as much as possible to state my own convctions and nothing more. I am indifferent to wheather or not discussants examine the Grail Message, acept it, reject it or ridicule it or label it a secret society. That afterall is their choice, not mine.

9. I do not agree that God created hell. Hell is evil and it is a place where those who have disobeyed Gods will are sent. I believe that God cannot create hell since hell contradicts the pure nature of God. The holyness of God does not permit evil either as an end in itself or as a means to an end. I also believe that God cannot be angered since anger is a human emotion. Even in ordinary human psychology, anger is not a good emotion. Why will the all holy God have human emotion.


Thanks again for your input and stay blessed!

@M_Nwankwo:

1. What is Truth and how do you recognise the Truth? Truth is God. God manifests in its activities and these activities always reflect the nature of the creator. This reflection of God, of eternal Truth carries justice, love, perfection, immutability, unchangebilty. Therefore what ever is true is perfect,

I will respond to the rest later. But I just needed to remind everyone that Jesus himself said that why would anyone referred to him as "good", when the only one who is Good is God? If Jesus was God, I bet he would never have rebuked the speaker who called him 'good'

I see that you never attempted the Verse 29 of Mark 12, which opposes even the probability of Trinity, in all its entirity.

Vacancy in some Zoo.

Decendant of Apes and other animals could apply for this. More than eneough banana.

Monkeys with MBA will be added advantage.


Oro ja-gba-ja-gba

dafidixone:

Vacancy in some Zoo.

Decendant of Apes and other animals could apply for this. More than eneough banana.

Monkeys with MBA will be added advantage.


Oro ja-gba-ja-gba

Why don't you get you mind off the cesspit of religion/bible and educate yourself for once. You can start by reading the post;
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-116423.0.html

This is from an earlier post of mine ->

The idea of organs developing incrementally (to adapt to changes in the environment, or whatever) is objectionable, in the form of questions like =>

1) What use is half a wing?
2) What use is half an eye?
3) What use is half a brain?

etc etc

Why don't you get you mind off the cesspit of religion/bible and educate yourself for once. You can start by reading the post;
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-116423.0.html

I like reading coments of people who think with their mind and not those that think with their eyes

Great discusssion people!! now I am really glad I found this place.

dafidixone:

Vacancy in some Zoo.

Decendant of Apes and other animals could apply for this. More than eneough banana.

Monkeys with MBA will be added advantage.


Oro ja-gba-ja-gba

You sir are an idiot.

anyways,
There's an article concerning the evolution of the human species
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/6057734.stm
you guys might wanna check that out,

concerning Mr.Nwankwo, what you say definitely makes sense and I certainly respect your beliefs, but to me I feel that, Abrahamic religions and evolution are incompatible, I say this because the Abrahamic religions are based upon the premise that God "created" man and other animals "whole" and that life started on earth only about 6000years ago when there is evidence to the contrary. I just want you to clarify something for me though, You believe in God but you dont subscribe to a particular religion or You're a Christian or believe in the Christian God but you believe in evolution? I'm Kinda confused, As for the concept of the soul/spirit I dont wanna delve into philosophy because it never answers its questions, it justs ask the same questions over and over again lol.

JayFK,

I agree. Evolution is the backbone of all modern biology and the cornerstone of the next-generation therapies. We ignore it at our peril.

@JayFK,

Thanks for your submissions and also for the clarification you sought. I will attempt to address the issues you raised as follows:

1. God is the creator, the origin and source of life. The Almighty Creator, God, did not form any of the various religious movements. Thus, in my own sensing there is nothing like a christian God, a moslem God, a budhist God etc. However what you have is conceptions of this creator by the various religious movements. Thus you have a concept of God that is presented by the followers of the christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc. However a concept of God is not the same thing as God and therein lies the real point. How close the various concepts of God are to God depends on how much the teachings swings in the will of God. The will of God has some identifiable characteristics and this include perfection, love and justice. One can say that perfection, justice, and love forms the cornestone of Gods will and any happening in creation that vibrates in the sense of these three principles comes from God. Where these three prionciples are fufilled, only harmony and joy will resonate. However any happening, event , revelation or teaching that contadict these principles is not from God since God is perfect and imperfect activities cannot emanate from him.

2. Thus I believe in God, the origin and source of all life. I also believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. I also believe that what Jesus actually taught is the WILL of God and that the words of Jesus not his death will save mankind from their sins. I believe that the death of Jesus on the cross was a murder, a sacrilage against God. Thus I am a follower of the true teachings of Jesus. The true teachings of Jesus is in harmony with Love, Justice and Perfection. Whatever is ascribed to Jesus by anybody that contradicts the principles of Perfection, Justice and Love is not from Jesus. A christian is one who follows the true teachings of Jesus and I am permitted by the grace of God to be a christian.

3. The WILL of God manifests in what we may call Laws. In spiritual planes this will of God manifests as spiritual laws while in the physical universe, it manifests as natural laws. Evolution is a consequnce of the natural laws. God created the natural laws, the power of God is the invincible FORCE that creates, maintaines and drives the natural laws. Thus evolution of the physical body is simply a consequence of the natural laws that God created. In other words God created evolution for the physical universe. That is why I earlier submitted that belief in the principle of evolution with respect to the physical body is very compatible with the belief in God. Evolution is not a force in itself, it is rather an instrument that God created and this created instrument was then set in motion by its creator to bring biological life in all its complexities into existence and further development. Evolutionary biology have correctly noted that the principle of evolution. However since what is recorded in evolutionary biology is the effects, not the force driving evolution, it is not possible for science to trace with mathematical clarity the time scale, the various trees, at what point do they intersect, why do the intersect etc. Science of course do not accept that their is a power that created the laws of nature and drives it. That is why science is only correct with respect to the principle but not with the various details of how each biological species originated and evolved. Such precise details lies only with the creator of Evolution (God) and hopefully some day God will reveal the whole picture and the various missing links to current postulations on evolution will be made known. Therefore God created a "primordial biological seed" and this "seed" guided and developed by the power of God underwent development spanning millions of years till it reached the highest point in its development. That highest point occured when this primordial seed developed into the highest developed animal body. This animal body served as a transition from the animal to the huiman body. This event according to the Grail Message happened at a point when the earth was at the midpoint of its cycle. Thus when these highest animal forms copulated, they produced an embrayo in which instead of an animal soul incarnating, a human spirit incarnated and that was the birth of mankind. This gigantic cosmic event is today mirrowed in the development of the human body from fertilization to birth. The Grail Message also reveals that the transition animals became extinct after the fufilled their role as transition points. The transition animals have no resemblance to the present apes as science assumes. The present apes developed from an entirely different tree from the tree from which the human body emerged. Catalysmic changes that have taken place on earth since the birth of man have made the fossil records for the tree that gave rise to the human body currently unavailable to scientists. Parts of the earth that were land at this time were sea and vice versa today. However as the techniques of science develops and more importantly if scientists start investigating with their spirits and not just their brains, they may find physical evidence for the evolution of the human tree. Therefore the birth of man involved two events, the moulding from the dust which revers to the biological evolution that gave rise to the human body and the breath of life which refers to to the incarnation of the spirit created by God into the biological body. This spirit then animated the physical body for the physical body without the spirit have no life, no warmth, it is dead. Putting all together, mankind has be on earth for atleast 500000 years and the postulations that we have been here for 6000 years is clearly refuted both by scientific findings and the revealations in the Grail Message.

Once again, thanks for your contribution. I hope I have made myself clearer. Stay blessed.