Men, I never thought that I would go down this path but over the past few weeks I have been "drowning" in unbelief of who the bible says God is. I have become a skeptic. It seems like the God of the old testament was different from that of the new testament (but they are the same).

Firstly, God creates the heaven and the earth and everything in it, He also creates man in His image and puts him in a garden. He creates a woman to keep him from being lonely thus the first humans came into existence. He instructs them not to eat from a particular tree but the woman desiring to be wise fell for the devil's trick and ate the fruit. She makes her husband to do the same thing. They realise that they are naked (it seems like God doesn't know at this time). They heard the sound of "God's footstep" in the cool of the day. He asks "where are you??"(was He just asking for the sake of it or He didn't know where they were at the time?)
.......... To be continued...........

...... Continuation ......
Adam replies to God's question "I heard you in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid"
Then God asks him another question "who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree which I commanded you not to eat?" (was He asking for the sake of it or He didn't know). If God knew the answer already, it means that He made eve to disobey Him and just came to make sure everything was going as planned.
.....to be continued....

They are ONE and the SAME.

"I am the LORD, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed." - Malachi 3:6

inspiredbyGOD:.:
...... Continuation ......
Adam replies to God's question "I heard you in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid"
Then God asks him another question "who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree which I commanded you not to eat?" (was He asking for the sake of it or He didn't know). If God knew the answer already, it means that He made eve to disobey Him and just came to make sure everything was going as planned.
.....to be continued....

Hmm, sorry, but GOD sees all that happens but he never forces us against our will.

He is not a tyrant or dictator that wants us to obey him because we are afraid of him, he wants obedience because of love and choice.

.... Continuation ....
God curses everybody involved from the serpent (why not the devil that used the serpent?) to the man and then send both Adam and Eve out of the garden. Then the Creator of the universe uttered something that made me doubt Him as the true God. He said "the man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live for ever
it seems like God is afraid (this is impossible but why would God make such statement?)

frosbel:


Hmm, sorry, but GOD sees all that happens but he never forces us against our will.

He is not a tyrant or dictator that wants us to obey him because we are afraid of him, he wants obedience because of love and choice.

Yes that is what I want to do but I have a hard time believing that the murderous God of the old testament suddenly changed to God of love. The bible says God does not change so that means that God that killed all the firstborns of the Egyptians (remember He made pharoah not to hearken to the words of Moses just so that He could get His glory) is still the same God now right? How can I serve such a God? (I'm honestly confused)

Hmmm............Skepticism is good. I think it'll be appropriate to share a few comments with you on this thread a little while later (probably weekend). Continue for now.

Now after many years, God becomes angry with man because of man's wickedness. Even angels of God lusted after the women of earth (thought they were spirit beings who had no need for physical things). They left heaven and came to enjoy what men were enjoying (angels that are meant to be spirit beings)

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Yes that is what I want to do but I have a hard time believing that the murderous God of the old testament suddenly changed to God of love. The bible says God does not change so that means that God that killed all the firstborns of the Egyptians (remember He made pharoah not to hearken to the words of Moses just so that He could get His glory) is still the same God now right? How can I serve such a God? (I'm honestly confused)

Okay let us start with the first born of Egypt.

Pharaoh was a tyrant and cruel king, he killed the Jews, oppressed their men and women because of Jealousy .

Acts 7:1 9 He dealt treacherously with our people and oppressed our forefathers by forcing them to throw out their newborn babies so that they would die.

You see God has endured with Egypt for eons, with their idol worship and abominable practices , he even blessed them during the time of Joseph, but when the new wicked king touched the apple of his eye, that is his children, as any normal father will do, God reacted to protect and deliver them from the hands of this evil king.

If Pharaoh had humbled himself , and submitted to his creator, things might have turned out differently , instead he rebelled and stubbornly led his people to ruin.

Let us be careful lest we make God like one of us, God is Almighty, he is answerable to no one, his ways are right and just.

If you carefully examine all the scriptures that some god-haters use to falsely portray God as evil , you will discover that God had endured with the wicked nations for eons , these wicked nations put their children through fire for sacrifice, worshiped demons , engaged in the most perverse types of prostitution and evil , yet they refused to acknowledge their creator, so he purged them from the land and gave it to his own people.

This is the same thing that will happen at the end of this age, God will purge the earth of all the wicked sinners and demons and give the whole earth to his own people.


24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’” - Leviticus 18:24-30

God decides to destroy all of mankind and everything on earth except for the fishes in the sea (water is their habitat so i don't think that a flood would have killed them). Obviously mankind became wicked because of the angels that couldn't control their lust. The angels slept with any woman they choose and gave birth to Nephilims (seems like they were very powerful men). God sees that everybody on earth was evil and was always thinking of doing evil (seems like man wasn't a perfect creation afterall) save for Noah who was righteous.

frosbel:

Okay let us start with the first born of Egypt.

Pharaoh was a tyrant and cruel king, he killed the Jews, oppressed their men and women because of Jealousy .

Acts 7:1 9 He dealt treacherously with our people and oppressed our forefathers by forcing them to throw out their newborn babies so that they would die.

You see God has endured with Egypt for eons, with their idol worship and abominable practices , he even blessed them during the time of Joseph, but when the new wicked king touched the apple of his eye, that is his children, as any normal father will do, God reacted to protect and deliver them from the hands of this evil king.

If Pharaoh had humbled himself , and submitted to his creator, things might have turned out differently , instead he rebelled and stubbornly led his people to ruin.

Let us be careful lest we make God like one of us, God is Almighty, he is answerable to no one, his ways are right and just.

If you carefully examine all the scriptures that some god-haters use to falsely portray God as evil , you will discover that God had endured with the wicked nations for eons , these wicked nations put their children through fire for sacrifice, worshiped demons , engaged in the most perverse types of prostitution and evil , yet they refused to acknowledge their creator, so he purged them from the land and gave it to his own people.

This is the same thing that will happen at the end of this age, God will purge the earth of all the wicked sinners and demons and give the whole earth to his own people.


24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’” - Leviticus 18:24-30

So, God wanted to avenge "His" people (makes Him seem like a tribal God of the jews doesn't it?) anyways, He predestined it to happen that way. (Genesis 15:12-15)

God gives Noah instructions on building an ark and saving some species of animals; two of every type of animal (no instructions on how they would survive without food). How did the ark contain the eight humans and two of every animal on earth? Did he go in with wild animals like elephants, lions, zebras, crocodiles? How did he get predator and prey to co-habit?

After destroying everything and everyone on earth with the flood, God "remembers" Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him (Did He forget about Noah before??). He sends a wind that starts to recede the waters. Finally, He told Noah and all that were with him to come outside and start a new race. Noah kills some animals and sacrifices them to God, the aroma was so pleasing that God decided He would never destroy the world with a flood or curse the ground (was it because of the sweet smelling burnt animal that He decided not to destroy us again?)

He puts a rainbow to serve as a reminder to Him of His promise (is the rainbow just a sign or is it actually for reminding God?)

Now to Abram and his family. Abram marries his own sister (different mothers), his brother, Nahor, marries his niece (his brother's daughter). It was from this family that the israelites descendd from.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
God decides to destroy all of mankind and everything on earth except for the fishes in the sea (water is their habitat so i don't think that a flood would have killed them). Obviously mankind became wicked because of the angels that couldn't control their lust. The angels slept with any woman they choose and gave birth to Nephilims (seems like they were very powerful men). God sees that everybody on earth was evil and was always thinking of doing evil (seems like man wasn't a perfect creation afterall) save for Noah who was righteous.

Yahweh is quite the childish little tyrant isn't he? Throws a temper tantrum and commits genocide after seeing that he made a colossal mistake the first time around. How can 'god' get angry? Is that not a sign of weakness and human fallibility?

God calls Abram and promises to bless him. Abram obeys and leaves the land of his fathers. There was a famine, Abram went to Egypt. Abram lies to the pharoah about his wife, pharoah believes him and treats Abram well. God inflicts serious diseases on pharoah and his household for believing Abram's lie. Genesis 12:10-20

Genesis 15: 12-16
God makes a covenant with Abram and tells him that his descedants will be slaves in a foreign land where they would be ill-treated for four hundred years & after that He would punish the nation that enslaved them (doesn't seem like pharoah had a choice in the matter). After that, Abram's descendants would return to their own land to teach the Amorites a lesson for their sins.

onetrack:

Yahweh is quite the childish little tyrant isn't he? Throws a temper tantrum and commits genocide after seeing that he made a colossal mistake the first time around. How can 'god' get angry? Is that not a sign of weakness and human fallibility?

I don't have the answer to that question. As you can see, I myself am confused.

Genesis 16:1-16
Sarai was barren so she offered her servant to Abram. Abram agrees and has a good time with Hagar (Sarai's servant). Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants (Abram didn't even care that she was pregnant) Sarai maltreats Hagar and Hagar fled from the fiery woman.

God sends His angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. The perverted men of the city try to force Lot's visitors out and make love to them. Lot (who is supposed to be righteous) offers his virgin daughters to the crowd. The righteous man wants an unknown number of men to bleep the hell of out of his daughters (do whatever you want with them). This man was called righteous.... smh

After the destruction of the evil city. Lot's two daughters make him drunk and they both take turns to sleep with him. They did this to preserve their family line. Lot was unaware at both times. (Lot isn't telling us something here)

Genesis 20:1-17
God gets angry with king Abimelech (he also believed Abraham's lie), though the king hasn't even touched Sarah. He says to the king, "Behold, thou art but a dead man," and threatens to kill him and all of his people. To compensate for the crime he never committed, Abimelech gives Abraham sheep, oxen, slaves, silver, and land. Finally, after Abraham "prayed unto God," God lifts his punishment to Abimelech, "for the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah."

Now this one is a famous story showing us the faith that Abraham had in God. God decides to test Abraham,
God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a ram to kill instead. 22:2-13 15. (Most of us would have failed this test. Why do we have to kill to prove that we love God?)

Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Why would an omnibelovolent, merciful, gracious and loving God ask a man that just gave birth to a son to kill that same son and Abraham was willing to do it. God promised him blessings for being willing to murder his son.

Genesis 38: we see God killing people discriminately.
"And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7
Onan was also killed for not producing an offspring for his brother. He spilled his semen on the ground (withdrawal method things)

Exodus.
God sends Moses to free His people from the Egyptians (are the Egyptians not His creation). He tells Moses that he would perform lots of signs and wonders but it would be in futility cause He would harden pharoah's heart. And then finally He would kill pharoah's firstborn son because he refused to release Israel, His firstborn son (not that pharoah had a choice in the matter).

God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26
_______________

Moses and Aaron ask the Pharaoh to let all the Israelites go into the desert to pray for three days, or else God will kill them all "with pestilence, or with the sword." 5:3 "Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh." 6:1
_______________

God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

Exodus 9:15-16

From this verse it seems like God gave power to the Pharaoh so that he could show off his own power by killing him.

Exodus 10:1-2
1 Then the LORD said to Moses,
“Go to Pharaoh, for I have
hardened his heart and the hearts
of his officials so that I may
perform these signs of mine among them
2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how
I dealt harshly with the Egyptians
and how I performed my signs
among them, and that you may
know that I am the LORD.
_________________
God hardened pharoah's heart so that He could perform signs among them. He wants to be remembered for dealing harshly with the Egyptians and for performing signs among them so that they would know that He is the LORD (Is God trying to prove that He is God or what?)

Exodus 11:7
In this verse God says He will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." (why would God put a distinction between Egypt and Israel, is He a tribal God?)
....... To be continued .......

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Men, I never thought that I would go down this path but over the past few weeks I have been "drowning" in unbelief of who the bible says God is. I have become a skeptic. It seems like the God of the old testament was different from that of the new testament (but they are the same).

Firstly, God creates the heaven and the earth and everything in it, He also creates man in His image and puts him in a garden. He creates a woman to keep him from being lonely thus the first humans came into existence. He instructs them not to eat from a particular tree but the woman desiring to be wise fell for the devil's trick and ate the fruit. She makes her husband to do the same thing. They realise that they are naked (it seems like God doesn't know at this time). They heard the sound of "God's footstep" in the cool of the day. He asks "where are you??"(was He just asking for the sake of it or He didn't know where they were at the time?)
.......... To be continued...........

Firstly, let me assure you asking questions about what you believe is a fantastic thing. You are in a good position, now you will really figure out what your faith is made of and whether it is worth holding on to - to you.

The bible is a complicated book. All through history many have used it to their own ends - murderers have used it to justify their crimes, racists have used it to justify their hate, theives have used it to justify their greed, oppressors have used it to justify their tyranny and so on...the bible can say almost whatever you want it to say.

The OT in particular is tough. And I will not pretend to say I understand it completely myself - but what I do know without a shadow of doubt is that compared to the greatness & vastness of God, what I know is next to nothing. So when I struggle, I remind myself my knowledge is only but a grain of sand in a vast ocean. So keep an open mind. Don't draw definitive conclusions from only one angle. The OT was written by people completely different from us, in completely different times, under completely different circumstances and very important - in a completely different context & language. Much of the meanings - literal or figurative - I fear are lost or muddled in translation.

For example the issue of "God hardening Pharoah's heart"... which is it? because several (I think at least 2 other verses in Exodus) explicitly say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart! this is the danger of building a philosophy on only one or two verses. it is widely accepted among reputable scholars that practically everything was viewed as an act of God and therefore attributed to Him. Also there is another school of thought that says Pharaoh hardened his heart and God facilitated it - this takes into account both sides.

So in a nutshell - keep asking questions. But be careful of the conclusions you draw from short, limited or hollow study. If after you conclude your research and decide that God & the bible are not for you, then good too. Just be convinced about it - for you cannot be lukewarm. Godbless brother .

JeSoul: Firstly, let me assure you asking questions about what you believe is a fantastic thing. You are in a good position, now you will really figure out what your faith is made of and whether it is worth holding on to - to you.

The bible is a complicated book. All through history many have used it to their own ends - murderers have used it to justify their crimes, racists have used it to justify their hate, theives have used it to justify their greed, oppressors have used it to justify their tyranny and so on...the bible can say almost whatever you want it to say.

The OT in particular is tough. And I will not pretend to say I understand it completely myself - but what I do know without a shadow of doubt is that compared to the greatness & vastness of God, what I know is next to nothing. So when I struggle, I remind myself my knowledge is only but a grain of sand in a vast ocean. So keep an open mind. Don't draw definitive conclusions from only one angle. The OT was written by people completely different from us, in completely different times, under completely different circumstances and very important - in a completely different context & language. Much of the meanings - literal or figurative - I fear are lost or muddled in translation.

For example the issue of "God hardening Pharoah's heart"... which is it? because several (I think at least 2 other verses in Exodus) explicitly say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart! this is the danger of building a philosophy on only one or two verses. it is widely accepted among reputable scholars that practically everything was viewed as an act of God and therefore attributed to Him. Also there is another school of thought that says Pharaoh hardened his heart and God facilitated it - this takes into account both sides.

So in a nutshell - keep asking questions. But be careful of the conclusions you draw from short, limited or hollow study. If after you conclude your research and decide that God & the bible are not for you, then good too. Just be convinced about it - for you cannot be lukewarm. Godbless brother .

Hhmmm!
Quite interesting coming from a christian.
Quite a number of folks on and off this forum would say that you are not a real christian, simply because you don't seem to be applying the so-called scriptural or spiritual reasoning to twist the bible to suit your whims.

We have been told numerous times that reading the bible is not an intellectual excercise, but a spiritual one.
Go figure that one!