Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor - Religion - Nairaland
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A Church Structure Collapsed And Everyone Came Out Alive / Should Women Be Allowed To Preach On The Altar Or To Become A Pastor? / Church Structure & Sole Authority Pastors (2) (3) (4)
| Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 3:41pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
 It's fascinating that the churches of modern-day America are setup the same way. Think about it for a moment. Have you not heard pastors and deacons refer to the "corporate church?" Of course, corporate literally means united, but it still has a business-like structure to it.  Growing up, I was able to experience small churches (20 or less), medium-sized churches (about 200), and large churches (1000+). Needless to say, I got a feel for the different sizes of a church. I do not believe that the size of the church matters, but do believe that the structure of the church matters. In this diagram, those of you who have gone to church on a regular basis all your lives can relate to this turtled existence of your church structure. This puts all the low-pyramid members on the outside, moving all the way into the hard-to-reach, and often times prestigious, inner circles. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 3:45pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
 For those of you who have gone through the church process of "losing your pastor," (i.e. the pastor moved on to another location) you will be able to relate to mild depression that comes over the church, not to mention, the lack of direction. Is this depression and lack of direction because the Holy Spirit left the church? No. The problem is in the church structure because when a pastor leaves, everything the church followed left with him. Many church split-ups happen after a pastor, under this structure, leaves the church. I have discussed this with other Christians who testify to, at minimum, members leaving the church after the pastor is gone. For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered. -Jeremiah 10:21 In describing the Biblical structure of the church, we need to look at the books of Acts and 1 Corinthians. In Acts, the only people appointed and ordained, or those that received anyone, were the elders. And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed. -Acts 14:23 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. -Acts 15:6 This shows us that the church is to be overseen by a team of people, not by a pastor. We need to stop for a moment to address those that will say their church has a group of elders that make the decisions in the church. Here are some points to consider: The pastor is still viewed as the representative and authoritative leader of the church. As a single leader, he influences the rest of the congregation outside of the elders. This leaves the pastor with little rebuke if he goes astray. Many members are put in a "laity" position, separated from the inner circles of the church leadership. Most churches keep their meetings private, where the rest of the church body cannot hear what is being said. In general, most churches just have the pastor deliver a message to the church when a decision has been made, and most of the time, the church body will not contest anything, even if the decision is not good. That separation causes the "laity" of the church body to neglect their God-given responsibility for witnessing to the lost, edification of the church body, personal Bible study, charity (including non-financial), etc. When was the last time you heard of your pastor, deacons, or elders fasting in prayer for the church body described in Acts 14:23? Though I will probably never find an answer, I am very curious how the church went from Antioch with the church body having overseeing elders, all working to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the charity of His Kingdom, to a pastoral position overseeing the elders and creating an outside laity of the church body that, generally, is only relied upon for cash offerings and extra hands for a bake sale. Though I have no evidence to provide, I suspect protestants adopted this corporate structure from the Roman Catholic church, and have traditionally held on to it, rather than bringing the bride of Christ back into the hands of its Master. Continuing to the book of Corinthians, we see Paul, a humble man of the Lord who thought himself not worthy of being an apostle, describe the diversity of the body of Christ in administration and gifts of the Holy Spirit. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. -1 Corinthians 12:4-5 For the body is not one member, but many. -1 Corinthians 12:14 So once again, we see here that the church body is to be overseen by a team of Christians, based on gifts of the Spirit. Nowhere in scripture is a single pastorial leadership given authority over the church, and though I'm sure some pastors will be upset if they read this, we need to stick with the Holy Word of God: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. -Acts 5:29 The only thing that has ever been required to start a church is to have a small group of believers, studying the Word and growing in the Lord, to come together to begin the work of the Holy Spirit. No church building is required. There's no need of hiring a pastor. When the body of believers come together, and listen to the Holy Spirit, elders will be appointed as they are needed. The typical church-going Christian cries out for a pastoral overseer taking up an authoritative position over the whole. If Christians cannot see this happening, just look at how much red tape one has to go through to become the single, head-pastor of a church building. The Bible tells us, in 1 Samuel, why Christians are calling out desperately for someone to reign over them: But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. -1 Samuel 8:6-7 Read the rest Here |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Candour(m): 4:03pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
@frosbel2,I saw the following sometime ago and it really describes the journey of the church ''Christianity started as a movement in Jerusalem,it got to Greece and became a philosophy, got to Rome and became an institution, spread all over Europe and became a culture......got to America and became an Enterprise..a BIG ENTERPRISE.. but Christ is coming back for a movement'' Unfortunately it's the enterprise version that is spreading like wild fire all over black Africa and particularly Nigeria and people assume the church is waxing stronger. I believe until the church gets back to the simplicity of the apostles and the early church,we'll just have large numbers in our pews but few souls to present to the Lord. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 5:00pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
Candour: @frosbel2,I saw the following sometime ago and it really describes the journey of the church I wholeheartedly agree ! |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Goshen360(m): 6:12pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
Candour: @frosbel2,I saw the following sometime ago and it really describes the journey of the church @ Brother Candour, Grace and truth be multiplied to you. I saw same also and even mentioned it in one of my past comments; can't remember the thread though. Read my EDITED version as I read when I first read it. ''Christianity started as a movement in Jerusalem,it got to Greece and became a philosophy, got to Rome and became an institution, spread all over Europe and became a culture......got to America and became an Enterprise..a BIG ENTERPRISE.. got to NIGERIA and became SPIRITUALITY...but Christ is coming back for a movement'' ....that's why you often read even on this forum some folks (names withheld) always mention and talk about SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLES  @ Brother Frosbel, Keep doing the works of an evangelist bro. God bless you. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by debosky(m): 6:16pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
Candour: @frosbel2,I saw the following sometime ago and it really describes the journey of the church You do not have to go back to the 'simplicity' of the apostles - as long as the souls have a relationship with Christ, the 'structure' is of secondary importance. Even if you don't like the structure, what type of Christians are being produced? That is the ultimate test. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 6:28pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
debosky: Oh yeah , we can see what type of Christians they are producing, Money loving, pastor worshiping and enemy hating people. This structure has succeeded in turning the sheep into lukewarm believers or atheists and has left many of them hurt and disillusioned with their man made traditions and false doctrines. The call to make disciples of these believers , love, feed and protect them has gone largely unheeded, instead they sit under countless services with threats of hell fire and brimstone, curses for not paying tithes and excommunication for challenging the ALMIGHTY Pastor. SMH. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by debosky(m): 8:27pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
The structures have not caused that, unless you also want to accuse the movement structure of the early church of causing Annanias and Sapphira's greed. Christianity remains an individual relationship with God - if individuals fail to do so, it's quite silly to blame the structure for that. I don't dispute that the institution can have an effect, but we cannot ignore the primary responsibility of the believer. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by alexleo(m): 9:30pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
debosky: The structures have not caused that, unless you also want to accuse the movement structure of the early church of causing Annanias and Sapphira's greed. THANKS A LOT. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by amdatam: 9:47pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
debosky: debosky: alexleo: "THANKS A LOT" but no thanks Doesn't staying quiet mean anything? It'll be better instead of drivel  - No discourtesy meantWhat is with the need to post, hmm? Is it for the sake of an opinionated prize? Hmm? - No offense meant. "The movement structure of the early church" nipped the Annanias and Sapphira's greed in the bud before it turned into the I am too damn greedy head honcho monsters we have now What we have now, is a turn around the axis and a swivel from the bottom to the top, the structure now has the greed emanating and chorusing from the top down now There is all "to go back to the 'simplicity' of the apostles" for and a lot to gain from it too, as Moses was a very humble man, more so than any man on the face of the earth. Besides even if "Christianity remains an individual relationship with God" the structures and their big shots should be mindful and become remorseful of wrongdoings before it is too late since they, the pastors et al are responsible and mandated to watch over souls placed in their care and shall give account of every one of the souls to God. The structure, the institution and the beneficiaries are better off, carefully paying attention to the warnings and taking notice of the castigation instead of carrying on business-as-usual, plying the road path of eternal damnation and taking the sheeple, in droves, along with them for sake of a "fistful of dollars" and filthy lucre There is no sacred cow. Call a spade a spade where and when need be and let's no one be intimated from speaking honestly and directly about any topic, especially or specifically topics that others may avoid speaking. Numbers 12:3; Hebrews 13:17 |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by debosky(m): 10:07pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
I've given my opinion - dunno why you're prefacing with no discourtesy or no offence. . . .you're free to hold yours.  Pastors will give account no doubt, however the primary accountability is of the individual, and that is where the primary (not sole) focus should remain. I neither endorsed any structure, neither did I castigate another - my simple point is that structures/movements do not save. The comment I responded to was specifically to counter the notion that simply because you find fault with a particular structure means the people therein are just numbers filling the pew. The Lord knows his own. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by alexleo(m): 10:35pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
debosky: I've given my opinion - dunno why you're prefacing with no discourtesy or no offence. . . .you're free to hold yours. GOOD POINT. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by alexleo(m): 10:41pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
@amdatam, i dont understand your confusion here. Do i need to repeat a point when someone has already made same point? Isnt it better you just quote the point and endorse it than repeating it in your own words? Structure or no structure, the main thing is for souls to be saved into the kingdom of God. I dont swallow trash in the name of teaching/sermon. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by baby124: 10:47pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
frosbel2:   Its a job after all. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by amdatam: 11:12pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
debosky: Welcome to the world of preemptives. The encounter, surely, isn't a first for you If it is, then get used to it, as it might turn to be a natural part of response(s) to your post(s). Brother.  The post was about pastors, the dishonest scheme and fraud structure they build Why the need to deviate focus and attention from the abnormality to "Annanias and Sapphira" is beggars belief. What was the point of the so called "the simple point"? To throw a spanner in the works? Huh? Your "simple point that structures/movements do not save" is naive because when or if the structure is not checked or lambasted, it takes the sheeple and leads them in their droves to eternal damnation The warnings ought to be echoed and not douched with water or muzzling others with deflating "the primary accountability is of the individual" counter posts I suppose, leading by example must have gone right out of fashion, so the sheep is to fend and feed for itself Artful dodging isn't meant for you, "Christianity remains an individual relationship with God - if individuals fail to do so, it's quite silly to blame the structure for that". Who built up structure (i.e. corporate church structure) who is responsible for the dire straits and state of the structure? I'll tell who. Vultures! and that exactly is what the post is revealing and was about and not self-opinions sidelining the topic |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by amdatam: 11:31pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
alexleo: Shouting THANKS A LOT from the roof top laid you open to ridicule. Souls are not saved into the kingdom of God but are corralled into eternal damnation in structures such as these Thank God you "don't swallow trash in the name of teaching/sermon" |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 11:44pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
There is no substitute for accountability of the individual , but when a believer is newly born again into the kingdom, the trend which has been observed as a pattern , is that these institutions of MEN make the new believer conform to the vision of their leader on what it means to follow JESUS or to be a Christian. They immediately suspend the ability of that individual to think for himself or herself, brainwash them with their doctrines and creeds and jealously guard that new believer from falling out of line. For example when I got born again newly in the Apostolic Faith church , I enjoyed the bliss for a few months until I fell ill and was told it was almost a SIN to take medicine. This almost caused me my life . As workers we were told we had to shave our beard and moustache and many other traditions of men which did not just add up. "Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.'" - Matthew 15:9 I still thank this church for bringing me into the kingdom and have a soft spot for them, however they also almost derailed my faith which could have been far worse, Deeperlife was similar, holiness doctrine, but a strict control on the members , discouraging any ability to think outside the structure of the church and doing everything possible to prevent their members from leaving ,in many cases cutting them off from well established relationships, friends and brethren . In many of these churches it is about bringing people to our church to increase numbers, boast about how large the church is with it's world coverage , but more worryingly the greatness of their leader who is almost worshiped as a god. We need accountability in the hands of the elders not pastors, trusted elders who love GOD , care for the sheep and have no inclination towards the LOVE of fame , status , position and Money. Enough of these ONE MAN shows , something which is very non-biblical and perverse. We do not need more Celebrity pastors. "For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered." - Jeremiah 10:21 Jeremiah 23:1 "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!" declares the LORD. Jeremiah 23:2 Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: "Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done," declares the LORD. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 11:46pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
baby_123: Indeed in may cases it is |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 11:54pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
God did not call ministry to be kings but to perfect the saints..but the way frosbel is going about rubbishing the five fold ministry is absolutely wrong and demonic..does he mean to tell us that ephesians 4.8, 11-13. shouldn't apply to the church anymore..what exactly is your gospel frosbel? every messenger has a message..what revelation did JESUS gave you to preach? is it about crictisizing and discrediting His church or what? ministry is all about alignment, order, purpose, multiplicity of giftings TILL THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE GLORY OF THE LORD TAKES OVER THE EARTH AS THE WATERS COVERS THE SEA. We should all take heed becos in the process of finding faults and discrediting the church without any corresponding action taken to find a way out of it..we are also guilty of same. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 12:06am On Mar 08, 2013 |
Bidam: God did not call ministry to be kings but to perfect the saints..but the way frosbel is going about rubbishing the five fold ministry is absolutely wrong and demonic..does he mean to tell us that ephesians 4.8, 11-13. shouldn't apply to the church anymore..what exactly is your gospel frosbel? every messenger has a message..what revelation did JESUS gave you to preach? is it about crictisizing and discrediting His church or what? Hmm, what are you on about. We need more elders, pastors, evangelists and prophets in the church , many many more. What we do not need is a ONE MAN show run by a pastor when in the early church it was the elders who ran a church not one person. Also , there are qualifications that come with these offices not just random appointment of people without a prayer and character assessment. "So an elder must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach." - 1 Timothy 3:2 Let us stop at this one, how many of our so called MOG will pass this test ? - a man whose life is above reproach - He must be faithful to his wife - He must exercise self-control - live wisely - have a good reputation. What about deacons ? 1 Timothy 3:8 Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. - Worthy of respect - sincere ( not LIARs and sweet talkers ) - not indulging in much wine -not pursuing dishonest gain. ( Most will fail this test ) We need humble, non-controlling, non-fame seeking and honest Shepherds , who have a zeal for the will and cause of GOD. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by amdatam: 12:12am On Mar 08, 2013 |
Bidam: frosbel is not going about rubbishing the five fold ministry. He is What exactly is frosbel's gospel as every messenger has a message? Well, frosbel's gospel, simply, is the bath water and soap is soiled and the babies are bathed with dirt water His simple message is change the soap, clean up the bath water, so we can have a clean babies Does Ephesians 4:13, say apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers should singly or connivingly fleece the sheep? It is a travesty and dumbfounding reading sheeples kick against the message  |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 12:17am On Mar 08, 2013 |
We believe the New Testament teaches that there is to be a plurality of elders. This means that a church is not to have unitary leadership where only one man has ultimate authority. Instead, a church is to have "shared leadership." As Alexander Strauch writes, "By definition, the elder structure of government is a collective form of leadership in which each elder shares equally the position, authority, and responsibility of the office" (Strauch, Biblical Eldership, 39). Shared leadership has the benefits of balancing people's weaknesses, lightening the workload, and providing accountability. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Goshen360(m): 1:02am On Mar 08, 2013 |
Every day by day, God is loving Frosbel the more because the Holy Spirit is using him to expose the |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by debosky(m): 1:19am On Mar 08, 2013 |
amdatam: It shouldn't beggar belief - the central focus of Christianity is on the salvation of the soul and not on disagreements structures which, in many (but not all) cases is a matter of taste/personal preference. My reference to Annanias and Sapphira was to further reinforce that point - individual greed does not need a specific structure to manifest.
Do you now claim to be a mind reader? The point is very simple - it was a response to a specific post and can be summarised thus: do not condemn individuals you know nothing about as merely 'occupying pews' simply because you don't like the 'structure' under which they fellowship together.
It's not naive in the least - 'lambasting' structures achieves nothing if individuals aren't reminded of their personal responsibility. No one will get to heaven and be excused on the basis of 'xyz led you to damnation'. Especially, since all you can do is 'lambast' - you don't have any power to stop those 'structures' you dislike from existing. If you think it naive then, again, you are entitled to your opinion.
Call it muzzling, call it deflating, call it whatsoever you wish - it remains the simple truth. Besides, I didn't realise that you were appointed to policing duties on this thread? If the OP didn't want any posts other than echoing his, he should've said so. He is free to reinforce his warning with fire and brimstone if he so chooses.
You can suppose as you wish since I never made that assertion. Again, the inconvenient fact is, the more the sheep take responsibility for their own 'basic' enlightenment, the less susceptible they are to questionable examples.
I haven't sidelined the topic - I have simply offered my perspective, which you are free to ignore. If you want a monologue or want to hear only your own voice, go and open a thread in the diary section. Brother. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Nobody: 1:33am On Mar 08, 2013 |
^^^^^^^ You have removed the need for good shepherds in the body of Christ, almost as if to lay all the blame at the feet of the sheep, especially the more vulnerable. Indeed, we must search out the scriptures but we need, especially applicable to new born sheep, more teachers and good pastors in the body of Christ. Jesus asked Peter to feed his sheep, he was a good shepherd. What we are witnessing is the take over of the sheep by a majority of hirelings who do not have the interest of the sheep at heart , instead making merchandise of them and leaving them disillusioned, hurt and frightened. I disagree with you on this premise. A bad church can quite honestly be a nightmare for the sheep and stunt their spiritual growth. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by amdatam: 2:34am On Mar 08, 2013 |
debosky: Doing an Aaron or Hur next time, holding hands up so that hands remained steady till sunset is preferable. As if lambasting doesn't mean criticising harshly and reminding of individual or personal responsibilities What are you like? Hmm? - No discourtesy meantWhy a monologue?, when there is no I in team as Together Each Achieves More. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by debosky(m): 9:33am On Mar 08, 2013 |
amdatam: *shrugs* I don't really know what you're on about, but do continue if you wish.
Maybe your comprehension skills are deficient - lambasting of structures means simply that - it's focused on structures. Reminding of individual responsibilities is a separate matter.
*shrugs* Refer to first statement above.
So drop the policeman act then. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by debosky(m): 9:42am On Mar 08, 2013 |
frosbel: I have done no such thing - please refer to my first response on this thread to a specific comment by Candour. How that is being interpreted as removing the need for good shepherds is a bit puzzling.
Agreed - where have I disputed the need for this?
Again, I have neither denied the occurrence of this, neither have I asserted that it is a good development. We cannot get better teachers and good pastors if individuals do not devote themselves to study - teachers or pastors don't fall from heaven. What I disagreed with was Candour's blanket condemnation of people he knows little or nothing about, simply because he has issues with the structure they fellowship in.
I agree with you on this - individual Christians are the ones who make up the church anyway - the better they are, the better the church is likely to become. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Candour(m): 10:09am On Mar 08, 2013 |
debosky: The structures have not caused that, unless you also want to accuse the movement structure of the early church of causing Annanias and Sapphira's greed. My brother,examples abound on the harm the structures described by frosbel cause e.g Guyana tragedy of Rev Jim Jones 1978 Ugandan massacre by church for restoration of the ten commandments 2000 Even very recently,our own Rev king. when i talk of simplicity,i didn't mean we should start traveling on donkeys or writing on scrolls.The gospel was preached without glorifying any apostle no matter how close to Jesus and that is the simplicity we are talking about. My dear if only 120 holy ghost filled believers turned Jerusalem upside down,don't you think Nigeria should have attained a state of utopia with the millions that throng the worship centers? Christ has told us only few will find the straight road to life but our churches today prefer a crowd of financial members. we need to think about the vulnerable members.even if they refuse to study for themselves,it behooves you and i that are fortunate to know to tell them |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by alexleo(m): 11:06am On Mar 08, 2013 |
frosbel: There you go again calling Apostolic Faith and tomorrow you say am advertising my church. Its easier for you to mention them when you want to give your negative experience but when i mention positive things about them you go on rampage. Apostolic Faith cannot be classified as one man church. 1. we have board of elders made up of the G.O( am using this because thats the one people will understand) and four other people. It is these five elders that discuss and bring out policies (that is considered not be against the scriptures) then they discuss it with the overseers or Pastors(again whichever one anybody can understand) spread accross the state for their own views and input before they finally send it accross to the workers and then the congregation. There is no how the G.O will wake up and make a policy on his own without passing through these processes because no man knows it all. 2.Go check our church sign post or banners and posters, you will never see the picture of our G.O. or pastors on it. You ll only see the church name, theme of event(if its in a poster or banner) date of event and time. You wont see the name of anybody there as speaker or whatsoever. 3. In our church no overseer/pastor(including the G.O.) have access to church money and they cannot solely determine how the money will be spent. It has to be a collective decision. I can tell you that many of our overseers and pastors have no befitting house of their own(and they couldnt be bothered about it) except those who are doing secular job or business. Our present G.O has a house he built before he became a full time worker up till now. And even our past ones cannot boast of any mansion as you witness in one man churches. They dont have flit of cars and even when people dash them cars they give it back to the church for general use out of their own freewill. During our convention which various ministers preach or teach. Its not a case of one man taking up almost the whole teaching or preaching. For example, we have our 3 weeks Afrcian convention every August and during the convention there are 2 sevices each day on tuesdays and thursdays and 3 services each day on sundays wednesdays and fridays. i.e. bible teachings in the morning and evening service. Some days we hold youth service in the after noon. if you go by this, the total number of services or meetings we hold within the 3 weeks is between 30 and 40 and i tell you that out of the about forty meetings, our G.O. preaches only in two while the rest of the service are spread to other ministers. Why? because the G.O. has to also sit down to listen and learn from other ministers too. In a one man church the G.O. takes 90 percent of the preaching in such conventions. Now the issue you raised about your experience i ve told you that today all those things have changed because people keep reading their bible and understanding it more and they bring up some of this issues for it to be looked into again and at the end of the day when they see there is a misinterpretation in what they understood in the past they change. There was a time T.V was not allowed to be used by our church members but today there is a better understanding because as we keep studying the word we keep understanding it. Today if you are sick nobody will tell you not to go to hospital as it used to be in the past. The issue of mounstache is just a form of appearance they want to have because they said it makes one look neat but our such things are given ways in our churches in the U.S., Canada, UK etc. and even in some African countries. Though we used to think it was a sin until some of us started raising questions why it should be regarded as sin when the bible did not say so. The issue you are raising about what is happening in churches are not wrong but your problem is that you make blanket statements which potrays all churches as erring in all that you wrote. All churches are not doing all that you raised. Now Apostolic Faith does not have it in mind to intimidate people when they are interpreting the bible. They do it with the sole purpose of preparing people for the kingdom of God but due to the level of biblical exposure of someone teaching or a pastor he may not give the full or complete interpretation and thats why we are taught to pray at the end of every teaching or sermon for God to give us a proper understanding of the lesson taught. The way you met the church in those days is not the way it is now. Things keep improving. Growth is part of man and part of life so we keep growing. God created us and every living thing to go through a growth process and as long as these churches are occupied by living beings then there is room for growth. And mind you, some overzealous members sometimes takes some of these practices to the extreme even when the original instructions or teaching did not say so. Well, thats life for you but with time too we bring those people to proper knowledge. FINALLY, BE BALANCED IN YOUR POSTS, DRAW LINES OR CATEGORISE WHERE NECCESSARY. BLANKET STATEMENTS ARE NOT GOOD WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH SUCH DELICATE ISSUES AS PUTTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT IN MATTERS CONCERNING THE CHURCHES. AM NOT AGAINST THE TRUTH, MINE IS TO MAKE HEAVEN AT LAST AND WHATEVER TRUTH I NEED TO MAKE HEAVEN I EMBRACE IT IF THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVINCES ME THAT ITS THE TRUTH. NOTHING IS TOO DEAR TO ME TO DROP IN MY PREPARATION TO MAKE HEAVEN. SORRY FOR ALL MY OUTBUST AND OFFENSIVE LANGUAGES. FORGIVE ME WHERE I OFFENDED YOU BUT PLS BE CAREFUL AND MORE BALANCED ON DELICATE ISSUES. THANKS. |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by Candour(m): 11:13am On Mar 08, 2013 |
Goshen360: God bless you my brother.i am very wary of this spiritual principles thing because it is only subject to the whims and caprices of the vision-er.let me share an experience A poor vegetable seller whom my mum always patronized asked my dad for a loan of 10k in 2001.when quizzed on why she needed it she said it was to purchase anointed handkerchief to ward off accident and premature death for the year.This announcement was made from the pulpit and every body kept mum so as not to challenge the 'anointing'just imagine!! an igbo proverb goes thus ''eneke nti oba the bird said since men have learnt to shoot without missing,he too has learnt to fly without perching'' so me too have learnt to study my bible well since men have learnt how to use the same bible to lead droves of people to destruction (don't mind me going local o).wisdom is profitable to direct so says the book of proverbs.We Christians must always get the truth of the gospel out to the world.It's a job we can't retire from.i only implore us to do it peaceable and without rancour as much as possible. God bless you 1 Like |
| Re: Corporate Church Structure and the true role of a Pastor by amdatam: 3:09pm On Mar 08, 2013 |
debosky: You forgot your gallivanting here, to police 'simplicity' debosky: lambasting Verb Criticize (someone or something) harshly. To scold sharply; berate. |
Oh! Christian, Are You Saying God Forsake Jesus? / Why Do People Hate Jews? / Noahs Ark vs Queen Mary ll
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