thehomer:

I'll just save this here for posterity.

Fair enough. Not that I'll modify my past posts anyway.

Mmmmmm !

Firstly, i wish to commend you for this your new approach of addressing issue without screaming. Well done !

Logicboy03:




Lets say Nigeria is in the old testament times. Now Nigeria is the Sodom and Gommorah......men having child brides, corruption, blood money, armed robbery, oil bunkery............



Should God set Nigeria ablaze, killing men, women, children and livestock, just like he did to sodom and gommorah? Remember that we are talking about a hypothetical Nigeria in the old testament times

to your question, you have to know that God is not a man, as such his mode of execution cannot be same with that of men.

Again, befor the destruction of Sodom, there was a titchart with Abraham that led to the agreement that if there are 10 righteouse men in that city, he will not destroy it.

That ^ discussion with Abraham made certain things Clear, that he(God) has the full picture of every situation, far beyond that of man.

Abraham as a human had thought that there will definitely be at least 50 righteouse men in Sodom, but he was wrong and was seeing as a human as the evidence later made clearer.

Lot even made effort to convince some people to no avail, they where all the same, hence, the destruction of Sodom.

So, whose judgement should i come to trust ? Man's ? No !

God sees far beyond mortal humans and his judgements Are ever Perfect.

You can take that ^ to the bank.

Peace

truthislight: Mmmmmm !

Firstly, i wish to commend you for this your new approach of addressing issue without screaming. Well done !



to your question, you have to know that God is not a man, as such his mode of execution cannot be same with that of men.

Again, befor the destruction of Sodom, there was a titchart with Abraham that led to the agreement that if there are 10 righteouse men in that city, he will not destroy it.

That ^ discussion with Abraham made certain things Clear, that he(God) has the full picture of every situation, far beyond that of man.

Abraham as a human had thought that there will definitely be at least 50 righteouse men in Sodom, but he was wrong and was seeing as a human as the evidence later made clearer.

Lot even made effort to convince some people to no avail, they where all the same, hence, the destruction of Sodom.

So, whose judgement should i come to trust ? Man's ? No !

God sees far beyond mortal humans and his judgements Are ever Perfect.

You can take that ^ to the bank.

Peace

Why did I even expect you to be sensible


Mtchew.

God is both good and bad...now before you guys get upset let me explain,
if he/she/they created all things it means he also created evil.
its up to us to decide which path we choose in life.

and yes, i do believe we get our rewards according to our choices.

Logicboy03:




Why did I even expect you to be sensible


Mtchew.

Lol.

*Kails*:
God is both good and bad...now before you guys get upset let me explain,
if he/she/they created all things it means he also created evil.
its up to us to decide which path we choose in life.

and yes, i do believe we get our rewards according to our choices.

Good good.........however, Nigeria is a country where you can work hard and see your whole life’s work go up in flames later...........life is random

Kay 17: @image123



But Agag didn't do anything wrong! And Samuel had said the rationale for the extermination of Amalekites was the fact the Amlekites in previous generations had attacked the Israelites in the desert when they were helpless!

We do not read the Bible selectively. Yes, God had an issue with the Amalekites especially about their attack against Israel in the wilderness. But the Bible which explains and describes the character of God has shown us clearly God's rationale of judgement. If the present generation of Amalakites were godly, they would NOT have been punished. Here is a passage that clearly teaches this, i'd encourage that you read the whole chapter in your favorite translation.
Eze 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
Eze 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
Eze 18:13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

The above passage teaches that if a righteous person has an unrighteous child/descendant, the unrighteous descendant will be punished.

Eze 18:14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
Eze 18:17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
This passage teaches that if a unrighteous person has an righteous child/descendant, the righteous descendant will NOT be punished.

Did Agag and his people sin? Yes. The same chapter said that they were sinners and that Agag was being punished the same way he had done to others. Please endeavour to read the complete chapter so as to have the full facts, thanks.
1Sa 15:18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the SINNERS the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

Uyi Iredia:

You equivocate by holding love to mean not to kill which, I repeat, isn't explicitly stated: the Israelites killed themselves like when Moses killed some of the golden calf worshippers on coming down from Mount Sinai.

It's unfair to say that i'm equivocating. Loving others as oneself is clearly an expression that you are not going to murder the person. The New Testament clearly and copiously teaches love, gentleness, patience with others and forbearance, forgiving others. This is opposed to what generally obtained in the Old Testament times.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

The Israelites didn't kill themselves and go free. They had a "Thou shall not kill" law that they had to obey. This however should not be confused with judgement, which their judges were empowered to do. If they had any issue or quarrel, they were not to kill one another. They took their cases to their judges, who then determined the punishment/settlement according to their law. Moses was a Judge and their law stated that idolatry was punishable by death. This is different from personal grudge or vendetta. moses never fought for himself. We have two cases recorded where God was said to have fought for him instead. Let's endeavour to rightly divide the scriptures.

thehomer:

Wow. You're really unable to see the problems with what you've just said. You're saying God commanded the flood that killed everyone - men, women, children, infants - except a family of 8 people not to stop evil, not to make the world better but because some of those men and women did something wrong. He did this knowing that his killing these people won't improve the society and won't protect those who haven't committed any crimes. In other words, he killed everyone knowing that there wouldn't be a positive outcome.

You are the one unable to see the fallacy in your position. You are forcing in things that were not said either by God or myself. Out of your long talk, here is what i have said, "God commanded the flood that killed everyone - men, women, children, infants - except a family of 8 people because those men and women did something wrong." This is what i have said, keep all the fancy stuff you added in the dustbin, you sure can cope with some honesty?

How is it a strawman? I'm telling you why we actually take the time to lock people in jail. You asked me a question and I answered. If jailing offenders doesn't make the society safer, then what would be the point of jailing those offenders?

You said "God killing everyone wasn't to make society safer. So what was his reason?"
You implied that that was what i said. i never said that.

Yes. They're all abstractions. You'll notice that like "goodness" neither "redness" nor "fiveness" can be a person so saying God is goodness means he too is an abstraction. Frankly having this conversation with you is getting difficult because you seem unable to handle abstract concepts.

Like i said, it might take you a lifetime to wrap your head around with that. God is good. He is not a human being, limited to your perception and understanding. He made the whole universe. You couldn't even get your head to understand parts of the human body, yet you think you can play grammar to understand God? Did you just say 'Yes, goodness, redness and fiveness are moral concepts?

You said God's purpose was dominion. Well killing babies doesn't mean man won't be able to dominate or master the earth so you need to pick another reason.

Duh, it is the babies that are to become man(i.e men and women). If they are killed by your altruist friend, they do not grow up to become men that has dominion and mastery of his world, or to be holy and victorious. These were the chief purposes for which God made the babies.

Based on what you're saying here, is it right for the Nigerian government to kill Abacha's son because his father ordered some people to be killed?

Based on what i'm saying, the Nigerian government are not God. And God would usually not punish the 'bad man's son if the son does not continue in the bad life of the man. Have you been reading what i've been saying at all, or you are more interested in making silly points from twisted phrases?

How could a 6 month old child have committed any crime? What on earth are you saying? Or are you deliberately trying to misunderstand what I've said?
Before I answer your questions, I'll need some clarification. Are you asking me what should have happened assuming that there was a good God? Or are you asking me to answer based on the absence of a God?

When you limit it to six month old, you apparently forget that sinner adults were the majority of the people justly punished. Their stats show that they continued in sin. God in His omniscience could easily state like we project in a graph, what the 6months would eventually do.
i'm was almost certain you will skip those questions ALSO. i could fairly project and know what you would do. You will still avoid them like a plague. here they are again.
On a sidenote, i want to ask, do you think they should have killed the old and left the 6month olds? 6 month olds somehow get to survive on their own? Or you think they should have adopted them, or what? Give me your goody options. Can you tell me what anyone baby has done wrong to be born in a place like Nigeria(or wherever else you think unpleasant) when he could be born in America(or wherever else you think okay)? Why does anyone has to be born into a poor home or debt or disease stricken home? Are they going to be immune from the evil and suffering their parents are undergoing? Should 'bad' people and folks who cannot take care of children be barren? Are there some set of people who you feel have to right to give birth? i'm almost certain you will skip these questions AGAIN

Then you don't understand what the English meaning of genocide is. This is the definition I'm using please tell me whether you agree with that definition or not. If you don't, please present your own definition.

Based on the definition I've given above and the English Language, God did command a genocide so what you've said above is factually incorrect.

Not surprised, i expected you would rather revel in frivolities about definitions, instead of facing the real issue being discussed. i understand genocide to be a crime, therefore God did not commit a crime. That is as simple as it gets. Whatever name you choose to call His acts, here is the real issue again. Hopefully, you do not miss it this time.

---

The quotes show us that one, God spoke through His prophets like Moses and Samuel. Of course you agree to that, else we should be arguing Moses or Samuel killing Amalekites instead of God. At our own time, God has spoken through Jesus.
Heb 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
His Son has said among other things, love everyone, including enemies. To pray for them, to be pitiful, to be courteous, to honour all men. He has told us that we are all one in Him and that there is no Jew or Gentile discrimination again, that He has broken the middle wall of partition, and died for us when we were enemies. He does not want anyone to perish but has offered humanity a new agreement/covenant.
The bolded are all things found in the Bible, which you have read and know that Jesus has said either directly or through His disciples. Based on this, it is ascertained what God has told us about such actions. The whole of Matthew 5 always make a good read anyday.
Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you,
Mat 5:45 that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.

What a doctors, architects, lawyers, footballers do cannot be done by every other person so saying that doesn't mean that what they do cannot actually be judged. Again, what you're saying here amounts to might makes right. i.e God can do whatever he wants not because he is just or moral but because he is powerful. I'm sorry but that doesn't fly as a moral argument.

Wrong. God can do what He has done because He is the Judge of the earth. What He has done has been to judge the offenders. that is as plain and straight forward as it gets.

Image123:

You are the one unable to see the fallacy in your position. You are forcing in things that were not said either by God or myself. Out of your long talk, here is what i have said, "God commanded the flood that killed everyone - men, women, children, infants - except a family of 8 people because those men and women did something wrong." This is what i have said, keep all the fancy stuff you added in the dustbin, you sure can cope with some honesty?




You said "God killing everyone wasn't to make society safer. So what was his reason?"
You implied that that was what i said. i never said that.




Like i said, it might take you a lifetime to wrap your head around with that. God is good. He is not a human being, limited to your perception and understanding. He made the whole universe. You couldn't even get your head to understand parts of the human body, yet you think you can play grammar to understand God? Did you just say 'Yes, goodness, redness and fiveness are moral concepts?




Duh, it is the babies that are to become man(i.e men and women). If they are killed by your altruist friend, they do not grow up to become men that has dominion and mastery of his world, or to be holy and victorious. These were the chief purposes for which God made the babies.




Based on what i'm saying, the Nigerian government are not God. And God would usually not punish the 'bad man's son if the son does not continue in the bad life of the man. Have you been reading what i've been saying at all, or you are more interested in making silly points from twisted phrases?




When you limit it to six month old, you apparently forget that sinner adults were the majority of the people justly punished. Their stats show that they continued in sin. God in His omniscience could easily state like we project in a graph, what the 6months would eventually do.
i'm was almost certain you will skip those questions ALSO. i could fairly project and know what you would do. You will still avoid them like a plague. here they are again.
On a sidenote, i want to ask, do you think they should have killed the old and left the 6month olds? 6 month olds somehow get to survive on their own? Or you think they should have adopted them, or what? Give me your goody options. Can you tell me what anyone baby has done wrong to be born in a place like Nigeria(or wherever else you think unpleasant) when he could be born in America(or wherever else you think okay)? Why does anyone has to be born into a poor home or debt or disease stricken home? Are they going to be immune from the evil and suffering their parents are undergoing? Should 'bad' people and folks who cannot take care of children be barren? Are there some set of people who you feel have to right to give birth? i'm almost certain you will skip these questions AGAIN




Not surprised, i expected you would rather revel in frivolities about definitions, instead of facing the real issue being discussed. i understand genocide to be a crime, therefore God did not commit a crime. That is as simple as it gets. Whatever name you choose to call His acts, here is the real issue again. Hopefully, you do not miss it this time.

---

The quotes show us that one, God spoke through His prophets like Moses and Samuel. Of course you agree to that, else we should be arguing Moses or Samuel killing Amalekites instead of God. At our own time, God has spoken through Jesus.
Heb 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
His Son has said among other things, love everyone, including enemies. To pray for them, to be pitiful, to be courteous, to honour all men. He has told us that we are all one in Him and that there is no Jew or Gentile discrimination again, that He has broken the middle wall of partition, and died for us when we were enemies. He does not want anyone to perish but has offered humanity a new agreement/covenant.
The bolded are all things found in the Bible, which you have read and know that Jesus has said either directly or through His disciples. Based on this, it is ascertained what God has told us about such actions. The whole of Matthew 5 always make a good read anyday.
Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you,
Mat 5:45 that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.







Wrong. God can do what He has done because He is the Judge of the earth. What He has done has been to judge the offenders. that is as plain and straight forward as it gets.

I'll just save this here for posterity.

thehomer:

I'll just save this here for posterity.

This happens to be a favor I'll gladly recompense.

thehomer:

I'll just save this here for posterity.

i'd wish rather that you had a clearer knowledge of God and salvation, than saving my writings for posterity.

Image123:
i'd wish rather that you had a clearer knowledge of God and salvation, than saving my writings for posterity.

He will,just give him time.They always come to the truth sooner or later.

Image123:
i'd wish rather that you had a clearer knowledge of God and salvation, than saving my writings for posterity.

Do you have a clear knowledge of God and salvation?

Bidam: He will,just give him time.They always come to the truth sooner or later.

You make me laugh.

thehomer:

You're welcome to show me this question you're accusing me of evading. Please take the time to ensure that the question is relevant.



That depends on the lie. You're welcome to better clarify your question.

Where thehomer plays hissyfoot with lies.

thehomer:

Do you have a clear knowledge of God and salvation?

Do you want to have a clearer knowledge of God and salvation?

Image123:
Do you want to have a clearer knowledge of God and salvation?

Sure. If you in fact do have a clear knowledge of God and salvation and are able to demonstrate this knowledge along with how you came to obtain it.

thehomer:

Sure. If you in fact do have a clear knowledge of God and salvation and are able to demonstrate this knowledge along with how you came to obtain it.

God can give you a clearer knowledge of Himself, not me. God can save you not me. But you need to be willing, and to change your mindset.

thehomer:

You make me laugh.

There is alwayz a day for the owner.

Image123:

God can give you a clearer knowledge of Himself, not me. God can save you not me. But you need to be willing, and to change your mindset.

Since I don't believe in this God but you do, I'd rather find out from you. So, are you willing to share this knowledge of God that you have with me?

Bidam: There is alwayz a day for the owner.

The owner of what?

thehomer:

Since I don't believe in this God but you do, I'd rather find out from you. So, are you willing to share this knowledge of God that you have with me?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. i cannot breathe on your behalf no matter how much i love you.

Image123:

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Lord of the Rings. Vol. 1 Fellowship of the Rings Chapter 10:
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,

Image123:
Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. i cannot breathe on your behalf no matter how much i love you.

How can I draw near to a God that I don't believe in? Can you draw near to Brahma? The Brahmin cannot breathe on your behalf either so have you been able to believe in him?

thehomer:

Lord of the Rings. Vol. 1 Fellowship of the Rings Chapter 10:
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,



How can I draw near to a God that I don't believe in? Can you draw near to Brahma? The Brahmin cannot breathe on your behalf either so have you been able to believe in him?

i do not need to draw near to any other, God satisfied me.

Image123:

i do not need to draw near to any other, God satisfied me.

And by God, do you mean Brahma?

thehomer:

And by God, do you mean Brahma?

i meant God, the One i've been discussing with you since you saw my username.

Image123:
i meant God, the One i've been discussing with you since you saw my username.

I take it that this means you don't believe in Brahma. So, can you draw close to Brahma since you don't believe in him? Asking me to draw close to this God of yours that I don't believe in is like asking you to draw close to Brahma that you don't believe in.

thehomer:

I take it that this means you don't believe in Brahma. So, can you draw close to Brahma since you don't believe in him? Asking me to draw close to this God of yours that I don't believe in is like asking you to draw close to Brahma that you don't believe in.

Didn't say that i do not believe in Brahma. i've drawn close to God and i am satisfied with Him. D you know Brahma or are you personally close to anyone that knows Brahma?

Image123:

Didn't say that i do not believe in Brahma. i've drawn close to God and i am satisfied with Him. D you know Brahma or are you personally close to anyone that knows Brahma?

This is the sort of pointless response that I prefer to avoid. Do you believe in Brahma or not? Please answer with a yes or no before you go on to ask me to believe in your own God that I currently don't believe in. For some reason, you don't understand what I've said so far. You asked me to draw near to a God I don't believe in. Can you draw close to a God you don't believe in?

thehomer:

This is the sort of pointless response that I prefer to avoid. Do you believe in Brahma or not? Please answer with a yes or no before you go on to ask me to believe in your own God that I currently don't believe in. For some reason, you don't understand what I've said so far. You asked me to draw near to a God I don't believe in. Can you draw close to a God you don't believe in?

Do you know Brahma or are you personally close to anyone that knows Brahma? Why would you want meto believe in Brahma. i do not even remember eve hearing that name five times in my entire life. i believ in God and i am satisfied with Him You have heard about God all your life and we both know His conditions. What are Brahma's conditions and what does brahma have to offer us. Are you a believer of brahma?

thehomer:

The owner of what?

The owner of your life.