lafile:

What did i just read?.

Do you know the meaning of the word contradict? My dictionary gives meanings including 'disagree with' and 'say opposite to'. Do you actually believe that the WORD OF GOD can actually disagree with itself or are my eyes deceiving me? Do you need a verse to tell you the WORD OF GOD (in essence, God Himself, because what He says represents who He is) cannot contradict itself? Its like God saying 'A' in one place and then saying 'B' in another place, when A and B cannot both be true. Since one of A or B must therefore be a lie, it can only mean one of two things. Either God is a liar ( Remember Num 23:19?) or one of the statements (A or B) was not made by God.

This does not augur well with our "sola scriptura" principle.

The verses are in front of you, yet you try to explain the inconsistency using extra-biblical arguments/comments.

The following emboldened adjectives are used to describe the word of God in the bible:
Ps 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught,
Ps 119:160 ¶ Thy word is true from the beginning
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Joh 17:17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

None of these adjectives is synonymous with contradiction.

2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
This obviously connotes that the word of God is not corrupt, or contradictory.

Also,
Nu 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

If two things contradict, obviously one or both of them is wrong, or lying. So if God cannot lie, His words cannot lie or contradict itself.
Like I said, if the problem is understanding, it's okay to ask God for it, He wont mind. But just because it looks contradictory to us does not make it contradictory. Again, I refer you to the virgin's conception and the empty grave. Makes sense, does it? I dont think so.

I hope you are content cause I'm not in the mood to continue this and am very unlikely to.

A_K_O:

The following emboldened adjectives are used to describe the word of God in the bible:
Ps 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught,
Ps 119:160 ¶ Thy word is true from the beginning
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Joh 17:17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

None of these adjectives is synonymous with contradiction.
2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
This obviously connotes that the word of God is not corrupt, or contradictory.

Also,
Nu 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

These verses do not come close to saying => "the bible cannot contradict itself"
There are obvious contradictions. I can post a whole lot of them here for you.
bawomolo will be pleased to see them.

A_K_O:

If two things contradict, obviously one or both of them is wrong, or lying. So if God cannot lie, His words cannot lie or contradict itself.

Good. Now, apply this to the verses I posted earlier.

A_K_O:

Like I said, if the problem is understanding, it's okay to ask God for it, He wont mind. But just because it looks contradictory to us does not make it contradictory. Again, I refer you to the virgin's conception and the empty grave. Makes sense, does it? I don't think so.

Good. Now, pray, and get to work resolving these issues.

A_K_O:

I hope you are content cause I'm not in the mood to continue this and am very unlikely to.

I have not even started.

imhotep:

These verses do not come close to saying => "the bible cannot contradict itself"
There are obvious contradictions. I can post a whole lot of them here for you.
bawomolo will be pleased to see them.


Good. Now, apply this to the verses I posted earlier.

Good. Now, pray, and get to work resolving these issues.

I have not even started.

Pray for understanding. God will give you. Goodbye to this thread. You can 'start' with yourself.

A_K_O:

Pray for understanding. God will give you. Goodbye to this thread. You can 'start' with yourself.

Thanks for contributing.

lafile

Oh, I just discovered a statement of profound truth form the Apocrypha.

"Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good; and it is a woman who brings shame and disgrace." Sirach 42:14

your point is? look below


1 Timothy 2: 11-14

11. A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man
13 For Adam was formed first, the Eve
14 Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed (should I say "was deceived and became a sinner as in the New International Version)

Once again your point is?

AKO
I know how you feel brotha. . . against my better judgement & experience I'll try and respond to brotha Imhotep.

 Imhotep,
I can't believe you attempted to put forth those verses as evidence the bible contradicts itself

imhotep:

@A_K_O and Jesoul

My brother and sister, the verses speak for themselves. You guys are making dogmatic statements.

1.
a) 2 Kings 2:11 => "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
b) John 3:13 => "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, , the Son of Man."

2.
a) PRO 26:4 => Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
b) PRO 26:5 => Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

This is too easy. . .

2 Kings 2:11 => "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
John 3:13 => "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, , the Son of Man."
 RE-READ the previous verses leading up to this verse and understand what Jesus is saying brotha, No man started from earth has gone up into heaven, and come down to teach on heavenly things. Jesus is saying no man left earth to go to heaven to gain this knowledge and come back down to teach it. Jesus Himself came from heaven, hence there's no one but him who has descended to the earth.
Jesus is NOT saying no one has even gone into heaven! Then that would be calling Christ a liar! God forbid such a thing!  

Here's the NLT version of the SAME scripture:
No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.
Can you now see what you're implying is off target by a thousand miles?


Next,
PRO 26:4 => Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 => Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

 no offense sir, but attempting to use the above as proof of bible contradiction is so lame I don't think it's worth any analysis.
 Anyways since you DON'T believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of the scriptures, progressing with this I'm sure will be fruitless. You already hold steadfast to your ways.

 Imagine people call a mere man, the pope, the infallible one (I cringe just to even write that!) BUT YET those same people don't believe the very word of God Himself is infallible!   how twisted is that?!

JeSoul:

AKO
I know how you feel brotha. . . against my better judgement & experience I'll try and respond to brotha Imhotep.

Imhotep,
I can't believe you attempted to put forth those verses as evidence the bible contradicts itself

This is too easy. . .

2 Kings 2:11 => "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
John 3:13 => "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, , the Son of Man."
RE-READ the previous verses leading up to this verse and understand what Jesus is saying brotha, No man started from earth has gone up into heaven, and come down to teach on heavenly things. Jesus is saying no man left earth to go to heaven to gain this knowledge and come back down to teach it. Jesus Himself came from heaven, hence there's no one but him who has descended to the earth.
Jesus is NOT saying no one has even gone into heaven! Then that would be calling Christ a liar! God forbid such a thing!

Here's the NLT version of the SAME scripture:
No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.
Can you now see what you're implying is off target by a thousand miles?


Next,
PRO 26:4 => Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 => Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

no offense sir, but attempting to use the above as proof of bible contradiction is so lame I don't think it's worth any analysis.

@Jesoul
There are many many others like these verses. And, once again, you are using extra-biblical arguments to explain them. Whatever happened to 'sola scriptura'?

JeSoul:

Anyways since you DON'T believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of the scriptures, progressing with this I'm sure will be fruitless. You already hold steadfast to your ways.

Question =>
- Should innerancy of scripture be a dogmatic article of faith?
- Should we not have a bible verse somewhere that tells us => "the bible can never contradict itself"

Imagine people call a mere man, the pope, the infallible one (I cringe just to even write that!) BUT YET those same people don't believe the very word of God Himself is infallible! Shocked how twisted is that?!

We have been analyzing the bible that Martin Luther preached with. Remember?

~Lady~:

lafile

your point is? look below


1 Timothy 2: 11-14

11. A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man
13 For Adam was formed first, the Eve
14 Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed (should I say "was deceived and became a sinner as in the New International Version)

Once again your point is?

@~Lady~
Thanks for this.

Well, I've just discovered among other things you doubt the integrity and reliability of God Almighty, that he would be so foolish to contradict Himself, that you could have even done a better job than Him im writing the bible. Oh, He was so silly to put 'contradicting' scriptures in the bible. Isn't it? This is not dogmatic, right?


I told you, if you don't understand why they are like that, ask for wisdom. He said He will give you freely. It CERTAINLY cannot be that He contradicts Himself. Like you say, learn to live with it.

I can't believe you guys don't see the song that Imhotep is playing.

The poster came here to say that the books that were deleted from the Bible were contradictory. Well the other books that remain are considered contradictory to those who are not in the spirit (atheist muuslims) not so? This is why they have a thread about it.

Well since the poster posted Scripture, Imhotep decided to post scripture to refute or ridicule the thinking of the poster.
Then you all jump on to say that scripture doesn't contradict itself. Well that is Imhotep's point.

The words in those seven books are no different from the rest of the Bible. It supports it.

Basically after reading the posts, I notice that a lot of people who have posted, have posted out of hatred (as in they see a thread that will give them a chance to bash and they join the bandwagon without looking into the issue) or they are not in the spirit. They clearly fail to see that what they are doing is EXACTLY what the atheists and muuuslims are doing, but they call them lost in the spirit. How can criticise someone for doing the EXACT SAME thing as you.


A_K_O

I think you are sensible (from your posts), so I ask you have you ACTUALLY read the books that were deleted?
When you find the contradiction come and tell me?


Don't forget that the mussslims use the verses where in one place Paul says that those who were with him when the Lord appeared to him heard the voice but did not see the. In another passage he says that the people with him saw the light but did not hear the voice. (I'll have to get the passages)

Point is before you speak, do your research. Get knowledge first. It is better to be thought a fool, than to be known as one.


@JeSoul

Have you read the books you condemn? Muuslims condemn the Bible without reading it. Even if they read it they don't understand it. Well, you claim to be in the spirit. My dear, read the books and tell me it contradicts the Bible as a whole.


People the Bible doesn't contradict itself. Go and read the books. Imhotep is not trying to show that the Bible contradicts itself, but that it is taken out of context.

2 Kings 2:11 => "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
John 3:13 => "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, , the Son of Man."
RE-READ the previous verses leading up to this verse and understand what Jesus is saying brotha, No man started from earth has gone up into heaven, and come down to teach on heavenly things. Jesus is saying no man left earth to go to heaven to gain this knowledge and come back down to teach it. Jesus Himself came from heaven, hence there's no one but him who has descended to the earth.
Jesus is NOT saying no one has even gone into heaven! Then that would be calling Christ a liar! God forbid such a thing!

That is EXACTLY the point. Imhotep is showing how ridiculous it is that the poster, picked one verse without looking at the bigger picture. If we were to do that to every verse in the Bible, we will definitely find contradiction. But we all know that if you read the whole, you will not find contradiction.

My dear Lady, THE WICKEDNESS OF A MAN IS BETTER THAN A WOMAN WHO DOES GOOD really makes sense to you abi? You'll always find a way to make sense to senseless statements abi.

@imhotep,

The other gospel(The apocrypha) you were refering to was nothing but fictions, fantasies or myths of the legends and fraudulent writings of heretics camouflaging as apostles.  These have been around since the dark ages when God did not speak to Israel for about 400 years and others cropted up in the 2nd and 3rd centuries  but know, that these are not inspired by God but  of the imaginations of men or demons 2Cor. 10:4-6.

Charles Wesley put it more succintly by saying that "the Bible must be the invention either of good men or angels, bad men or devil, or of God.  However, it was not written by good men, because good men would not tell lies by saying 'Thus saith the Lord', It was not written by bad men because they would not write about doing good duty, while condemning sin and themselves to hell; thus, it must be written by divine inspiration."    

The Bible is a collection of 66 books; 39 of the old testament and 27 of the new testament and is the only source of the knowledge of God to mankind.  It is the contact point between the infinite God and the finite man as God reveals His mind to us.  It is Jesus in the old testament concealed and in the new testament revealed.  Our Lord Jesus Christ approved of the Law and the prophets, which was the Torah that the Jews have today and these are the same as in the  Old Testament.  Note that Jesus never quoted from the apocrypha or the so called '7 deleted books'.   Jesus also commanded His disciples to spread the news of His teaching, preaching and healing ministry, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension to everyone.  That is the reason why all the eyewitnessess spoke as the Holy Spirit inspired them and Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit will further teach us many truths and interprete them to us who believe.  1Cor. 14:37; Jn. 14:-26; 1Jn. 1:2-3; 2Pet.1:16-18;1Thess.5:27; Col. 4:16; Rev.1:3.2Pet.3:15-16; The new testament was written by apostles or sanctioned by one such as Mark with Peter and Luke with Paul.

Any book outside the holy scriptures are not inspired by God, such as the apocrypha that contains accounts of people, fables or myths of the legends or any gnostic heretical writings, and thereby not included in the canon.  Our minds is the battle ground where the battle is fought and won, we are spirits that have souls and live in a body, that God shaped hole in our hearts can only be filled by the Word of God who is Jesus Christ and not with the words of man nor of  the words of the devil.  If you allow your spirit man become activated by the word of God you will be able to fulfil the purpose God created you for which is to worship Him in the spirit and in truth.  Your decision determines your destiny.  Choose what God has chosen for you, choose eternal life and this you will find in Jesus as you turn from your sin and turn towards God by faith and obey Him.  The inspired word of God has been revealed to us and the canon has been completed by the apostles of Christ,  Genuine believers would neither add nor subtract nor tamper with the holy inspired scriptures as some have done.  Rev.22:18,19; Deut.4:2;12:32; Prov.30:6.  All we need is to receive the author and finisher of our faith and He will interprete it to us correctly and shine His light on our paths.

My dear Lady, THE WICKEDNESS OF A MAN IS BETTER THAN A WOMAN WHO DOES GOOD really makes sense to you abi? You'll always find a way to make sense to senseless statements abi.

Since I am senseless, make sense from the one I posted na.

The man was formed and not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a sinner.

So na only woman dey sin?

~Lady~:


The poster came here to say that the books that were deleted from the Bible were contradictory. Well the other books that remain are considered contradictory to those who are not in the spirit (atheist muuslims) not so?

 I'm glad you used the word "considered" in your statement.
I challenge you to post ANY verses from the 66 books of the bible that contradict each other and let us iron them out.

Well since the poster posted Scripture, Imhotep decided to post scripture to refute or ridicule the thinking of the poster.
Then you all jump on to say that scripture doesn't contradict itself. Well that is Imhotep's point.

 No that is NOT imhotep's point. Did you not read the part he said about sola scriptura? was it not he who provided the link I posted that the Catholic church DOES NOT believe in the inerrancy of scripture? Does thou not know what your own church believes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_and_the_Bible.

The words in those seven books are no different from the rest of the Bible. It supports it.

 Wrong! they are VERY different!
your tobit teaches we should smoke fish intestines to drive away evil spirits.
 your sirach teaches the wickedness of a man is worse than a womans good. etc. . .

HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THIS NONSENSE NOT CONTRADICT THE BIBLE?

Basically after reading the posts, I notice that a lot of people who have posted, have posted out of hatred (as in they see a thread that will give them a chance to bash and they join the bandwagon without looking into the issue) or they are not in the spirit.

It was only a matter of time before you mentioned "hatred"

@JeSoul

Have you read the books you condemn? Muuslims condemn the Bible without reading it. Even if they read it they don't understand it. Well, you claim to be in the spirit. My dear, read the books and tell me it contradicts the Bible as a whole.

 I have posted your verses above,
 Now you show me anywhere in the 66 books of the bible that contradict each other.
 The only contradictions (as wacky and crazy as they are) are in your catholic canon.

People the Bible doesn't contradict itself. Go and read the books. Imhotep is not trying to show that the Bible contradicts itself, but that it is taken out of context.

 oh really? how in the world can this be taken out of context?
Tobit 6:5-8: If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.

That is EXACTLY the point. Imhotep is showing how ridiculous it is that the poster, picked one verse without looking at the bigger picture.

 Then please Lady in all your wondrous wisdom, and view of the big picture, explain what this verse means:
Tobit 6:5-8: If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.

one more thing:
scripture cannot and does not contradict other scripture.

It's just that was the catholic church calls scripture is different from what is true scripture. Ola has pointed that out beautifully. Just wanted to point that out.

my dear Imhotep,
this is why it is so difficult and frustrating discussing with you. You've regressed to mentioning Martin Luther and sola this and that when ALL you had to do was respond to the points I raised.

You posted 2 Kings 2:11 and John 3:13 I used a different translation of the SAME scripture to show you what you were saying was wrong and you call that "extra-biblical arguments"?

You are simply impossible! I might as well be banging my head against a rock here.

Below are some fairy tales purported to be true, found in the 7 deleted books.
The story of Bel and the Dragon says that the pagan priest of Bel tried to deceive Daniel by using a trap door to consume food left for the idol Bel. This pagan priest was seeking to convince Daniel that Bel was a real god who ate and drank everyday.
Another fanciful tale relates that Daniel was miraculously fed by the prophet Habakkuk, who was caught up by an angel in Judea, and taken to help Daniel in the lion's den in Babylon. Daniel lived hundreds of years before this spurious book titled "Bel and the Dragon" was written.
In Tobit, the blind father who lives in Nineveh, sends his son Tobias on a journey to collect a debt. On a journey for Tobias is led by an angel in disguise named Raphael. The angel leads him to the house of a virgin who had been married seven times, but whose husbands were all slain by a demon on their wedding night. Tobias marries the girl and drives away the demon by burning the heart of a certain fish in the bedroom, and with the help of Raphael. He returns home with the money and his bride, and then heals his father's eyes with the fish's gall.

Some more profound teaching from 'the word of God'?

Judith 9:10,13, says that God, assisted Judith in the telling of lies.

Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom teach that morality is based expedience. In other words it is right to sin in some situations.

Wisdom 11:17 teaches that God made the universe out of pre-existing matter instead of "ex nihilo" (out of nothing) as Genesis 1:1-2, John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 11:3 plainly state.

OLAADEGBU:

@imhotep,

The other gospel(The apocrypha) you were refering to was nothing but fictions, fantasies or myths of the legends and fraudulent writings of heretics camouflaging as apostles. These have been around since the dark ages when God did not speak to Israel for about 400 years and others cropted up in the 2nd and 3rd centuries but know, that these are not inspired by God but of the imaginations of men or demons 2Cor. 10:4-6.

We dont have to take your word for it. Give us a bible verse that says => the apocrypha is not part of the bible.

OLAADEGBU:

Charles Wesley put it more succintly by saying that "the Bible must be the invention either of good men or angels, bad men or devil, or of God. However, it was not written by good men, because good men would not tell lies by saying 'Thus saith the Lord', It was not written by bad men because they would not write about doing good duty, while condemning sin and themselves to hell; thus, it must be written by divine inspiration."

You are beginning to sound like the Catholic Dogmatic Theologians that you vehemently oppose.

OLAADEGBU:

The Bible is a collection of 66 books; 39 of the old testament and 27 of the new testament and is the only source of the knowledge of God to mankind.

Where is the biblical verse to support this? Or is it another dogmatic article of faith?

OLAADEGBU:

Any book outside the holy scriptures are not inspired by God, such as the apocrypha that contains accounts of people, fables or myths of the legends or any gnostic heretical writings, and thereby not included in the canon. Our minds is the battle ground where the battle is fought and won, we are spirits that have souls and live in a body, that God shaped hole in our hearts can only be filled by the Word of God who is Jesus Christ and not with the words of man nor of the words of the devil. If you allow your spirit man become activated by the word of God you will be able to fulfil the purpose God created you for which is to worship Him in the spirit and in truth. Your decision determines your destiny. Choose what God has chosen for you, choose eternal life and this you will find in Jesus as you turn from your sin and turn towards God by faith and obey Him. The inspired word of God has been revealed to us and the canon has been completed by the apostles of Christ,

Olaadegbu's dogma!

OLAADEGBU:

Genuine believers would neither add nor subtract nor tamper with the holy inspired scriptures as some have done. Rev.22:18,19; Deut.4:2;12:32; Prov.30:6. All we need is to receive the author and finisher of our faith and He will interprete it to us correctly and shine His light on our paths.

But Martin Luther deleted 7 books (after almost 1,300 years of the bible's existence), my brother. You don't seem to want to consider this.

And some more historical errors and anachronism. 

Tobit claimed that he was alive when the Assyrians conquered Israel in 722 B. C. and when Jeroboam revolted against Judah in 931 B. C. However it records his total life span as 158 years. These two events were actually 859 years apart.

More agreement between the NT and the so-called apocrypha

1.
a) Tobit 4:16 => See thou never do to another what thou wouldst hate to have done to thee by another.
b) Matthew 7:12 =>All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets


2.
a) Sirach 35:12 => For he is a God of justice, who knows no favorites.
b) Acts 10:34 => Then Peter proceeded to speak and said, "In truth, I see that God shows no partiality.

lafile:

And some more historical errors and anachronism.

Tobit claimed that he was alive when the Assyrians conquered Israel in 722 B. C. and when Jeroboam revolted against Judah in 931 B. C. However it records his total life span as 158 years. These two events were actually 859 years apart. Judith also mistakenly states that Nebuchadnezzar reigned in Nineveh instead of Babylon. There are many other gross historical errors as well.

First , you forgot to quote your sources. Secondly, this AD/BC dating system was developed much later - and also adjusted once or twice.

JeSoul:

my dear Imhotep,
this is why it is so difficult and frustrating discussing with you. You've regressed to mentioning Martin Luther and sola this and that when ALL you had to do was respond to the points I raised.

Martin Luther is the source of all this.

JeSoul:

You posted 2 Kings 2:11 and John 3:13 I used a different translation of the SAME scripture to show you what you were saying was wrong and you call that "extra-biblical arguments"?

I only said that you should not rejoice too early. There are many many many other passages. Take a look at bawomolo's thread for starters.

JeSoul:

You are simply impossible! I might as well be banging my head against a rock here.

Please don't, my dear sister. What and what do you find impossible?

Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good; and it is a woman who brings shame and disgrace." Sirach 42:14

Here are the actual words from Sirach 42:14

"Better a man's harshness than a woman's indulgence, and a frightened daughter than any disgrace"

People where does it say that the womand brings shame.

Here it is in the whole context.


Sirach 42: 9-14 "A Father's Care for His Daughter"

9 A daughter is a treasure that keeps her father wakeful,
 and worry over her drives away rest
Lest she pass her prime unmarried, or when she is married, lest she be disliked;

10 While unmarried, lest she be seduced, or as a wife, lest she prove unfaithful;
Lest she conceive in her father's home, or be sterile in that of her husband.

11 Keep a close watch on your daughter, lest she make you the sport of your enemies,
A byword in the city, a reproach among the people, an object of derision in public gathreings.
See that there is no lattice in her room, no place that overlooks the appraoches to the house.

12 Let her not parade her charms before men, or spend her time with married women;

13 For just as moths come from garments, so harm to women comes from women:

14 Better a man's harshness than a woman's indulgence, and a frightened daughter than any disgrace.

Tobit 6:5-8: If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.

FINE!!!!

Here is what it says:

2 When the boy left home, accompanied by the angel, the dog followed Tobiah out of the house and went with him. The travelers walked till nightfall, and made camp beside the Tigris River
3 Now when the boy went down to wash his feet in the river, a large fish suddenly leaped out of the water and tried to swallow his foot. He shouted in alarm
4 But the angel said to him, "Take hold of the fish and don't let it get away!" The boy seized the fish and hauled it up on the shore.
5 The angel then told him: "Cut the fish open and take out its gall, heart, and liver, and keep them with you; but throw away the entrails. Its gail, heart, and liver make useful medicines."
6 After the lad had cut the fish open, he put aside the gall, heart, and liver. Then he broiled and ate part of the fish; the rest he salted and kept for the journey.
7 Afterward they traveled on together till they were near Media. The boy asked the angel this question; "Brother Azariah, what medicinal value is there in the fish's heart, liver, and gall?"
8 He answered: "As regards the fish's heart and liver, if you burn them so that the smoke surrounds a man or woman who is afflicted by a demon or evil spirit, the affliction will leave him completely, and no demons will ever return to him again.

Judith 9:10,13, says that God, assisted Judith in the telling of lies

Why don't you stop telling lies.

This is what it says:

Judith 9: 10

With the guile of my lips, smite the slave together with the ruler, the ruler together with his servant; crush their pride by the hand of a woman

11 Your strength is not in number, nor does your power depend upon stalwart men; but you are the God of the lowly, the helper of the oppressed, the supporter of the weak, the protector of the forsaken, the saviour of those without hope

13 Let my guileful speech bring wound and wale on those who have planned dire things against your covenant, your holy temple, Mount Zion, and the homes your children have inherited


This is a prayer by Judith to God. Go and read the Book of Judith to know why it is she's praying.




Seriously people read the book before you condemn.

Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom teach that morality is based expedience. In other words it is right to sin in some situations

Wow goes to show you have not read the books.

Wisdom 11:17 teaches that God made the universe out of pre-existing matter instead of "ex nihilo" (out of nothing) as Genesis 1:1-2, John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 11:3 plainly state

This is what is says

Wisdom 11:17

For not without means was your almighty hand, that had fashioned the universe from

formless matter

, to send upon them a drove of bears or fierce lions.

formless matter is not pre-existence matter, it is matter not formed as in matter was not formed, as in God created from nothing.

More agreement between NT and apocrypha

1.
a) Tobit 12:15 => I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord."
b) Rev 1:4 => grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

2
a) Tobit 13:17 => The streets of Jerusalem shall be paved with rubies and stones of Ophir;
b) Rev 21:19 => The foundations of the city [the new Jerusalem] wall were decorated with every precious stone; the first course of stones was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald,

The Protestants attempt to defend their rejection of the apocrypha on the ground that the early Jews rejected them.

However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called “Jamnia” in 90 - 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testatment canon.

Thus, Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament.

brother imhotep how far? I could probably find hundreds of verses in the koran and even the book of mormon that agree with verses in the bible. It doesn't prove everything.

The Protestants attempt to defend their rejection of the apocrypha on the ground that the early Jews rejected them.

However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called “Jamnia” in 90 - 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testatment canon.

Thus, Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament

Pay them no mind.
They're blindly following a liar.

When I pointed out that it's because of pure hatred thay think I'm lying. Well now they know. If it wasn't pure hatred and jumping on the bandwagon, why didn't they look up the passages and read for themselve before they took the words of a liar to be scripture.

lafile:

brother imhotep how far? I could probably find hundreds of verses in the great book and even the book of mormon that agree with verses in the bible. It doesn't prove everything.

Only we are talking about the bible.

lafile:

Some more profound teaching from 'the word of God'?

Judith 9:10,13, says that God, assisted Judith in the telling of lies.

Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom teach that morality is based expedience. In other words it is right to sin in some situations.

Wisdom 11:17 teaches that God made the universe out of pre-existing matter instead of "ex nihilo" (out of nothing) as Genesis 1:1-2, John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 11:3 plainly state.

Think about this =>

1 Kings 18:40 => Then Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal. Let none of them escape!" They were seized, and Elijah had them brought down to the brook Kishon and there he slit their throats.

This is the same Elijah that appeared to Jesus at the Transfiguration.

you may call it being dogmatic or being lazy---i believe God and His word---my questions would be answered when i see Him in heaven.Heb 6:18 says-it is impossible fro God to lie!
Solomon in Ecclesiastes said too much learning makes one mad. we should be careful as to how we handle God affairs

Ehm-Won!:

you may call it being dogmatic or being lazy---i believe God and His word---my questions would be answered when i see Him in heaven.Heb 6:18 says-it is impossible fro God to lie!

Yes. But we still have plenty of issues to sort out here.

Ehm-Won!:

Solomon in Ecclesiastes said too much learning makes one mad. we should be careful as to how we handle God affairs

What of too little learning?