ijawkid:


You are turning round and round bro.....

If Jesus is GOD in flesh why can't mary whom the scriptures call the mother of Jesus be the mother of GOD??..........

The scriptures call mary the mother of Jesus from the fleshly point of view...for goodness sakes mary carried Jesus for 9 months and pushed him out..............mary called Jesus her firstborn son........

I can see you trying to run away from clear facts which would totally contradict your stance.......

And it is high time we discuss on micah 5:2 and romans 9:5......

Your understanding of micah 5:2 is so warped which would soon be corrected....

and so also for romans 9:5 which has been totally mistranslated to suit the trinity dogma but would at the end of the day contradict it............

Its all about you been ready to get down with the going....

benalvino:

Where is your proof that it was mistranslated? When you see clear fact you assume it was mistranslated. I can compare all bible and new world translation and ask you to decide which one is engineered to suit doctrines... I gave a comprehensive explaination I know your stance is final I can't convince you and that is not why am discussing am just doing it cause I like discussing things and also express what I believe. If U can explain Micah for me am will be glad... The question is did Jesus ever call Mary mother? If U call your mother woman how will she feel? Mary is not eternal she existed just yesterday how can she be a mother of a God who created her... Even if you understand my explanation you will most likely act like you dont. Bible teach The Father created everything it teach Jesus created everything it teach the holy spirit created everything... It teach Jesus raise him self up from dead teach the father did teach the holy spirit did. There cannot be 2 alpha and omega... Jesus is our eternal father ERTERNAL FATHER

Itsfacts:

Dude I have seen how you react to presented facts of citation to backup claims you just find and excuse question and ask. You know our discussion on my post and how you run away from it. Now they make Romans fit the trinity lol why didn't they put the word trinity in the bible then? As matter of fact it is the new world translation that tries to twist the bible to fit watchtower doctrine like benalvino earlier mentioned!!!

frosbel:

God did not rise from the dead, Jesus did. God cannot die, stop this madness.

We worship ONE GOD, so Jesus said :

"Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD." - Mark 12:29

frosbel: Daniel 7 : 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

v13 totally destroys any error regarding the Trinity, here Jesus the Son of MAN is brought into the presence of the Everlasting Father, Ancient of Days, the one and only true GOD who know MAN can see.

Debroslink:

The Lord God says "Look unto me and be saved oh Israel"... "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced..." Zechariah 12: 10

My question to you is, who is this PIERCED Lord GOD?

frosbel: Daniel 7 : 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

v13 totally destroys any error regarding the Trinity, here Jesus the Son of MAN is brought into the presence of the Everlasting Father, Ancient of Days, the one and only true GOD who know MAN can see.

[quote author=benalvino]

Now I know you really lacking.. Jesus was fully man do he died..

How did he walk on water? He did when the spirit of God is in him... He totaly relied on his father because he took the cause which the bible describe as flesh what he wanted is to remove the cause from us that is why he came down to earth..

The Jesus who created the heaven and earth

was eternal he can never die till he took the curse which is the flesh..

Rev 1:8 7Behold, he comes with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

frosbel: Daniel 7 : 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

v13 totally destroys any error regarding the Trinity, here Jesus the Son of MAN is brought into the presence of the Everlasting Father, Ancient of Days, the one and only true GOD who know MAN can see.

ijawkid:


Before I correct you with a better rendering of that verse let us intelligently analyze the rendition u quoted from......

Does it make an oita of sense if people are looking upon the pierced person ME,but mourning for someone else altogether,HIM??....

The later part of that verse says and they shall mourn as one mourns for a firstborn son...

Is Yahweh the firstborn son??.....does the scripture not say that Jesus instead is the firstborn son of Yahweh??........

Now why don't we see this verse from another rendition...



Zechariah 12:10
Good News Translation (GNT)
10 “I will fill the descendants of David and
the other people of Jerusalem with the spirit
of mercy and the spirit of prayer. They will
look at the one whom they stabbed to death,
and they will mourn for him like those who
mourn for an only child. They will mourn
bitterly, like those who have lost their first-
born son.


Can you see consistency in this rendition??.......

nlMediator:

I thought you argued here only recently that Jesus did not exist until he appeared in the Gospels? That aside, so when Jesus existed in Daniels, He existed as a man? Pray, who gave birth to this man or can one exist as a man without human parents? And where did He live as a man in the Old Testament days- Israel, Babylon, Heaven? Straight answers would be appreciated.

Debroslink:

The Lord God says "Look unto me and be saved oh Israel"... "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced..." Zechariah 12: 10

My question to you is, who is this PIERCED Lord GOD?

ijawkid:

Lol......let's look at romans 9:5 from fellow trinitarian versions so that you can rest a bit.....and take a look at the punctuations so that you can know and see that wayo was played by trinitarians to assume that Jesus was the God over all that was mentioned.....



"Theirs the patriarchs, and from them,
according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who
is over all be blessed forever. Amen." (NAB)


"to them belong the patriarchs, and of their
race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God
who is over all be blessed for ever.
Amen." (RSV).


Romans 9:5
Good News Translation (GNT)
5 they are descended from the famous
Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human
being, belongs to their race. May God, who
rules over all, be praised forever! [a] Amen.


Benalvino please kindly take a look at romans 9:5 from the goodnews translation....that is not the new world translation bro...and for the sake of this discuss I would never touch the NWT...we would do it here with other renditions by trinitarians......

The truth is even fellow trinitarians know that romans 9:5 has been rendered incorrectly and also the use of punctuations has been bastardized...

Can you reconcile these words of paul found in other parts of the scriptures to the romans 9:5 you're hanging on??....

"Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed
One." (Mark 14:61).

"Blessed be the Lord, the God of
Israel." (Luke 1:68).

"They changed the truth of God into a lie and
worshiped and served the creature rather
than the Creator who is blessed to the
ages. Amen." (Romans 1:25).

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:3).

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ." (Ephesians 1:3).

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:3).


Paul would have to be a confused person to had penned down romans 9:5 to bless Jesus as GOd over all when in the rest of his letters he had always consistently blessed Yahweh the GOD and Father of the same Jesus we are discussing about.....

You can't bring out a twisted verse that contradicts the bulk of scriptures to prove a point.......

And may I inform you that the scriptures say it was through Jesus things created....Jesus himself had a beginning..Jesus' living is dependent of that of the Father who is the source of life...he was begotten...he is the image of GOD(which ofcourse would be contradictory if he is GOD)...

Debroslink:
But Daniel 7:22 says "Until the Ancient of days came..." This means that an Ancient of days came to meet another Ancient of days sitting on the throne. Afterall, the Son of man came to the Ancient of days Daniel 7:13.

frosbel:

Prophecy about Jesus Christ.


What do you guys not understand about Prophecy ?

Debroslink:


I base my quotation on the King James Version, not all these 20th century Bible versions. The scriptures simply said "they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced". My question still remains... who is this PIERCED Lord God?
If God is Yahweh, and Jesus is God, then Jesus is Yahweh.

frosbel:

You are running deeper and deeper into confusion.

So there are now 2 ancient of days , You must be catholic , Babylon and confusion etc.

A Clear distinction has been made between the ancient of days and the Son of MAN, stop twisting scripture to mean what you want it to say.

ijawkid:


Before I correct you with a better rendering of that verse let us intelligently analyze the rendition u quoted from......

Does it make an oita of sense if people are looking upon the pierced person ME,but mourning for someone else altogether,HIM??....

The later part of that verse says and they shall mourn as one mourns for a firstborn son...

Is Yahweh the firstborn son??.....does the scripture not say that Jesus instead is the firstborn son of Yahweh??........

Now why don't we see this verse from another rendition...


Zechariah 12:10
Good News Translation (GNT)
10 “I will fill the descendants of David and
the other people of Jerusalem with the spirit
of mercy and the spirit of prayer. They will
look at the one whom they stabbed to death,
and they will mourn for him like those who
mourn for an only child. They will mourn
bitterly, like those who have lost their first-
born son.


Can you see consistency in this rendition??.......

benalvino: I know you never understood that verse ok let me make another explanation for you.

although the Bible documents that Mary became the mother of Jesus and clearly teaches that Jesus is God, it never states, or even implies, that Mary was (or is) the “Mother of God.” For a theological syllogism to explain correctly the relationship between Mary and God, it must be based on biblical truth. We can propose correctly that Jesus is God (1) God became flesh (John 1:1,14); (2) therefore, Mary is the mother of Jesus according to the flesh (Romans 9:5), i.e., Jesus’ physical body. Jesus as a man fully depend on his father and he had the holy spirit behind him... Also he has the curse which is the flesh so yes he was a man.

Itsfacts:

So what you are saying is Jesus is their first born? Or it is a description of how they show mourn• I don't understand how you guys understand stuff. If I say he she talks like a man doesn't mean she is a man am describing simple.

ijawkid:

Ok then let us read the apostles john quoting zechariah 12:10 so that you can abandon this zechariah 12:10 you are holding so dearly....

John 19:37




English Standard Version
(©2001)
And again another Scripture says,
“They will look on him whom they
have pierced.”


New American Standard Bible
(©1995)
And again another Scripture says,
"THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM
WHOM THEY PIERCED."

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
And again another scripture saith,
They shall look on him whom they
pierced.


The KJV rendered it well this time...if you noticed when John was quoting from zechariah he did not quote it as ""they shall look upon me whom they have pierced" rather it he quotes and says ""they shall look on HIM whom they have pierced.....

So my bro hope you can see that the scriptures cannot contradict itself.........

Yahweh is not Jesus and Jesus is not Yahweh.....stop this blasphemy.........

Yahweh is the Father and God of Jesus.......

Debroslink:

Actually there are three Ancient of days because they were not created, and you know them. Don't u?

Itsfacts: @frosbel you sounding ignorant sometimes. You quote alvino as blasphemy he presented a verse and you didn't say anything. The koko is Jesus was even prayed to. That glory God said he will never share with anyone! Jesus had it.

frosbel:

LOL.

benalvino:

In other words Jesus is not the eternal father... He didn't create the person who born him in your understanding. Jesus did not exist before Mary. That is for you to worry I can't explain more because you will still close your eyes to the fact I presented

ijawkid:

And firstborn mentioned in that scripture does not strike a cord in your brain that it all links to Jesus??...........

Or you want to argue that Jesus isn't Gods first born??......

My brother you have no argument......

Kindly read john 19:37.....

Debroslink:

I believe you know English very well. John was simply reporting what he read in the Scriptures. Do u expect him to use "ME" instead of "HIM" that is Jesus.
God said "they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced.
Pls, stop quoting all these 20th century versions. They are contaminated. Any bible versions that can't quote 1John 5:7 in full, is from the pit of hell.

Debroslink:

If u believe Jesus was created, then I doubt your Christianity. Why then do u worship Jesus? Why are all powers, angels and principalities worshipping Him. I thought God is the Only one we should worship, and He said He won't share His glory. Why is Jesus sharing His glory if He was created. The fact is... Jesus is God.

Debroslink:

If u believe Jesus was created, then I doubt your Christianity. Why then do u worship Jesus? Why are all powers, angels and principalities worshipping Him. I thought God is the Only one we should worship, and He said He won't share His glory. Why is Jesus sharing His glory if He was created. [b]The fact is... Jesus is God.[/b]

frosbel:


Show me where Jesus was prayed to, even Jesus told SATAN that we should worship GOD only and him only should we server.

"replied, "The Scriptures say, 'You must worship the LORD your God and serve only him.'" - Luke 4:8

This is further buttressed by Revelation 1v1 which goes :

"1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." - Revelation 1v1.