@OP, the overall ans can only be discerned or balanced in spiritual realm, n only those in that same realm will completely comprehend the subtotal of that.

what if there are no religious books? can anyone of you 'believers', still be believers, naturally without story books and or any laws you think are guiding you, now?

@op; its your thread. take a good swing at it. so can other believers.

@judas2013, I don't understand if you're trying to be sarcastic or making an extra effort to be seen as more intelligent. Anyway, I'll take your comment as sarcasm. @uyi, good that you took your time to look through. I haven't posed any argument here. I'm still trying to see reasons with the concept of God. Anyway, looks like you've gone through Lawrence Krauss. Lool. You are sounding like the first 5 pages of the book when trying to define "nothing". We've been here before. I'm just observing. I'll pose more questions if I find the ground favorable enough for an intelligent discourse. This is on the front page and it will attract all sorts of fundamentalists and bigots. I'll pass for now

Lord Babs: BASED ON INVALIDITY!

It isn't. I might as well trash it out here and so sharpen my thoughts on this. I hold it to be valid given the following axioms:

* Space is nothing or nothingness being immaterial.

* Space is infinite and so can't be said to have shape or limits.

* Space is eternal and can't be said to start or end.

I think the stance by prominent scientists and philosophers that space began with the Big B@ng inane, moreso when I note that the BB would require space to start in. Space expansion is inane given the fact of expansion is generally known wrt physical objects, the fact that expansion requires space to expand in, the futility of presuming distance increases without motion given the favt that the only means of doing such outside of motion is by systematically or randomly increasing distance values. That said from the axioms proposed above the next axiom follows.

* Space is omnipresent.

* Space is whole and indivisible.

* Space is uncaused.

That said we see space has certain features ascribed over time to God, which is, depending on how seen, problematic. The tying of space to consciousness is easily done when I note this: consciousness is not material, it is immaterial. In life, we know consciousness to have a material substrate, the brain BUT the brain, despite affecting consciousness can't be said to cause it but rather begs how it has it given the following: matter lacks consciousness. I think it even more fitting now, because it puts God at a closer, and in a strange way still farther, to me. The only reason why you disagree is because consciousness is empirically associated with a material base which I said begs and doesn't explain consciousness.

@ OP---Believe and grow your faith by doing what the word says. Your questions can only be discerned, interpreted and balanced in spiritual real m with spiritual interpretations of which the subtotal can only be comprehend when the same realm.

only mysteries solve mysteries!

A vast majority of christians practice christianity only because they were born into it. To our Christain and Muslim brothers, try and reason out of the box at times! If you had been born and raised in a prison you would find the walls very normal and the bars very common place, the guards very typical. You would never imagine there to be something other than captivity. You would probably fight vehemently against anybody proposing a modicum of freedom that departs from your day to day experiences. I think our religious brothers and sisters should think about that, and then ponder what their religion has imposed on them since the day they were born. Think!

Hemical: @judas2013, I don't understand if you're trying to be sarcastic or making an extra effort to be seen as more intelligent. Anyway, I'll take your comment as sarcasm. @uyi, good that you took your time to look through. I haven't posed any argument here. I'm still trying to see reasons with the concept of God. Anyway, looks like you've gone through Lawrence Krauss. Lool. You are sounding like the first 5 pages of the book when trying to define "nothing". We've been here before. I'm just observing. I'll pose more questions if I find the ground favorable enough for an intelligent discourse. This is on the front page and it will attract all sorts of fundamentalists and bigots. I'll pass for now

I've only previewed his book and watched his talk on it on YouTube. I ain't got a VISA or MasterCard, if not I would have bought 'A Universe From Nothing'. I can only see sense in his stance if he adds God to it, he doesn't and so I think his stance nonsense for a well-known reason: from nothing nothing comes. Bigots aren't as much here so feel free.

Uyi Iredia:

I've only previewed his book and watched his talk on it on YouTube. I ain't got a VISA or MasterCard, if not I would have bought 'A Universe From Nothing'. I can only see sense in his stance if he adds God to it, he doesn't and so I think his stance nonsense for a well-known reason: from nothing nothing comes. Bigots aren't as much here so feel free.

I can send it to you via mail if you want. Maybe try sending a PM on here and I'll send the book to you. Would really love you go through it. We'll have a common ground to discuss space and nothingness

Uyi Iredia:

It isn't. I might as well trash it out here and so sharpen my thoughts on this. I hold it to be valid given the following axioms:

* Space is nothing or nothingness being immaterial.

* Space is infinite and so can't be said to have shape or limits.

* Space is eternal and can't be said to start or end.

I think the stance by prominent scientists and philosophers that space began with the Big B@ng inane, moreso when I note that the BB would require space to start in. Space expansion is inane given the fact of expansion is generally known wrt physical objects, the fact that expansion requires space to expand in, the futility of presuming distance increases without motion given the favt that the only means of doing such outside of motion is by systematically or randomly increasing distance values. That said from the axioms proposed above the next axiom follows.

* Space is omnipresent.

* Space is whole and indivisible.

* Space is uncaused.

That said we see space has certain features ascribed over time to God, which is, depending on how seen, problematic. The tying of space to consciousness is easily done when I note this: consciousness is not material, it is immaterial. In life, we know consciousness to have a material substrate, the brain BUT the brain, despite affecting consciousness can't be said to cause it but rather begs how it has it given the following: matter lacks consciousness. I think it even more fitting now, because it puts God at a closer, and in a strange way still farther, to me. The only reason why you disagree is because consciousness is empirically associated with a material base which I said begs and doesn't explain consciousness.

yawns ....Bottom line= The space is not conscious of its consciousness; it is logically unfeasible! Thus begs the question: why call the space God? Because of its non-causality-understandable, otherwise, critically unlawful!

Jarus: 1, My natural, default inclination.

2, This world is too perfect for someone to tell me there is nobody behind it. From time immemorial, day follows night; human beings are born, grow, later die; These patterns are too perfect for one supernatural being not behind them. I use my computer system - it works, follows a pattern, if I switch it on, it comes on, if I click one button, something happens etc. This could not have been if nobody made the computer system. I don't believe this could happen by chance.

OK, let me get something from your post or logic.

computers work because someone intelligent created it. you believe someone intelligent could not have existed uneslse someone created him right?

now, my question is, WHO CREATED THE CREATOR?
who created God? he couldn't have popped out of the thin air and create intelligent man right?

I believed in God because of what I was taught from childhood, but now that am a grown up - I've tested and I've seen that there is God Almighty... He is the only supreme God... I can bet with my life that He sits in the heavens and makes the earth His footstool... it's by faith that I believe in His existence (faith based on the facts that He has shown about Himself in the BIble)...

Hemical: I can send it to you via mail if you want. Maybe try sending a PM on here and I'll send the book to you. Would really love you go through it. We'll have a common ground to discuss space and nothingness

Okay.

Who created God? Man created God for their dysfunctional behavior. They invented God to forgive them
for doing it.

Lord Babs: yawns ....Bottom line= The space is not conscious of its consciousness; it is logically unfeasible! Thus begs the question: why call the space God? Because of its non-causality-understandable, otherwise, critically unlawful!

As I said, 'twould be futile.

Hemical. Try ****u@gmail.com

9jadelta: OK, let me get something from your post or logic.

computers work because someone intelligent created it. you believe someone intelligent could not have existed uneslse someone created him right?

now, my question is, WHO CREATED THE CREATOR?
who created God? he couldn't have popped out of the thin air and create intelligent man right?

OMG. How many times myst you be told that the Cteator is uncaused. Only to hear he must have a cause.

9jadelta: OK, let me get something from your post or logic.

computers work because someone intelligent created it. you believe someone intelligent could not have existed uneslse someone created him right?

now, my question is, WHO CREATED THE CREATOR?
who created God? he couldn't have popped out of the thin air and create intelligent man right?

OMG. How many times must you be told that the Creator is uncaused ? Only to hear he must have a cause.

plaetton:

If god exists, why does anyone need to BELIEVE in him? Why wouldn't he just be self-evident?
A personal relationship with god simply means accommodating god in my head.
My question is why does he need to live only in my head?
Do I need to form a personal relationship with the sun, or gravity, or Oxygen, for example?

The fact that we even have an expectation to believe in god is proof that we have deep innate doubts about his existence.

smh. I'm sorry, but God has certain characteristics and he's not going to change because of one mans stubborness

Edit: btw, a personal relationship with anyone doesnt mean accomodating the person in your qead. I suppose youre married and have friends. Do your friends exist only in your head. Choi! You don fall your own hand plaeton. What you would say just to prove your invalid point?! Nothing person no go hear for nairaland.

We have a relationship with God through Jesus. He lives. He has direct influence in our lives. We know him. We are filled with Joy.

The answers here are mostly given by Christians. Would be nice to have other religions: Buddhists, pagans, Muslims, Hindus etc. Too bad we don't have dattaswami.

He answers my prayers. Thank You Jesus.

torhuke: Because I was born a christian

sorry, but you cannot be BORN a christian. It's a concious and serious decision

Have you guys ignited this endless debate again, two things are involve, either you believe or not, one thing is certain, It's like saying you don't believe in your parent that gave birth to you_how silly can one be? and if you want to know God, simply seek Him and stop arguing blindly..now before i ride on, i will say this once and only once,


But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1.. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

existence of GodThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

2.Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

3.The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

existence of GodAll instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

existence of God Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.


so with these, i rest my case, if you like believe in God Almighty, if you like don't, God said we should stop bothering ourselves if we a person refuses to heed to believe in him, My God can't and won't ever force anybody to believe in Him, it's you r shot, take it or leave it

@9jadelta; Creator cant be created. if anything is created, that is not the Creator. even the thin air, the Creator created it. so when you get to the end of the line and you can not go further, after that, your have the Absolute Creator Who is One and in English language the generic identity; God in Islam, True Name Allah.

Uyi Iredia:

OMG. How many times myst you be told that the Cteator is uncaused. Only to hear he must have a cause.

have I asked you that question before?

by the way, why would only god be uncaused but the person that created intelligent computer z not uncaused?

gradeA:

my bro may God bless you a million times for this gospel truth.

you see, no one would ever believe fully in the existence of our Lord Jesus christ except with the help of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit makes Jesus christ so real cos His ministry is actually to bear witness of christ to our soul.

Chibuebem my testimony is just identical and similar to yours. I have always had the consciousness that there was a God, simply because I was born into a strong christian family, but then that personal relationship was missing. I simply couldn't feel God's presence. Infact, i did worse things than those who outrightly didnt believe in any God. I remember this occassion back den in d university that i was smoking weed, but I kept telling my friends that God would arrest my soul and save me. I never knew how this would happen, cos i had tried everything possible to be closer to him, but the more i tried, the farther apart i drifted. The life of Holiness just seemed impossible.

But just like your experience, it was in a particular meeting that God decided to hv mercy on me. He stretched forth His hands and saved me. He found me. Those sins that seemed so impossible for me to stop, just left me by the power of the Holy Spirit.

My advice is rather than try to analyse the rationality of God's existence with our human wisdom, we should just pray that God reveals himself to us. Trust me He would. An encounter is all we just need to change our thinking pattern.

yes mbrother, I stand with you. I bear witness to this message.

9jadelta: have I asked you that question before?

by the way, why would only god be uncaused but the person that created intelligent computer z not uncaused?

You don't have to ask me.

The person we know exists within a chain of causality. We must determine where it ends: either the universe itself or a God behind it.

RoyPCain: @9jadelta; Creator cant be created. if anything is created, that is not the Creator. even the thin air, the Creator created it. so when you get to the end of the line and you can not go further, after that, your have the Absolute Creator Who is One and in English language the generic identity; God in Islam, True Name Allah.

Why do you say Allah is God's true name as opposed to other names in other languages ?

First, I believe in God by simply
F-forsaking
A-all
I-I
T-trust
H-him.

Second, I believe in God because of the knowledge I have of Him. What he has done and what he can do. Also, I have seen practical examples of what he can do.

He gave me his
B-basic
I-instruction
B-before
L-leaving
E-earth.
He explained how he formed me, how sin deformed me, how my parents through training try to reform me and what he has done to transform me - the sacrifice of his Son.

Personally, I see evidence of God's existence in the things around me; the animals, plants, the orderliness of the universe, the earth itself, and as the op mentioned, the human body especially the human brain. These and many more proves the fact the a supreme being exists; one whose intelligence and wisdom is beyond what any man can fully comprehend.

I think some people doubt the existence of God because of other reasons such as: why does he allow this world to continue like this with some much suffering and inequality, the very bad example of those who claim to know God also make some doubt his existence, and many more.

Uyi Iredia:

Thinking like this are distasteful and are part why Christianity is more likely untenable for me. Ummm, what about the many people over time who believed in God without recourse to a Holy Spirit. Truth be told, belief in God IS NOT the sole excluse of a line of thinking, deism inclusive.

he speaks of true belief. Knowledge of God inclusive. Knowing God. No one can truly know God and understand his ways without Jesus.

Uyi Iredia:

You don't have to ask me.

The person we know exists within a chain of causality. We must determine where it ends: either the universe itself or a God behind it.

then why did u attack the initial post as if we have had a debate on it before?


so, how could the chain must end with god when no one can really prove he exists?

Kay 17: 1. An intelligent computer can not create itself nor its intelligence.

2. An intelligent man can't create iself

Thus intelligent beings are incapable of self creation.

.
Flawed deduction. For then, the Creator, an intelligent being, needs to be created. Don't U think so?