JMAN05:
Spirit is the spirit of God. how? his active force or what?

Depend on how you interpret it.

to understand you. are you saying that Jesus is a literal word of God?
Do you also mean that it was on earth that Jesus became a person?
please answer differently. i want to fully understand your position.

Jesus is the "Word of God" being literal or in action.
In 1Peter 1:23 which I've stated earlier Jesus was called the literal Word of God 1Peter 1:23 " AMP:You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.

ESV:since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

KJV:Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

NIV:For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.[/b]
NB: where "the Word of God" appeared in that text you can put Jesus and it will perfectly fit.
Jesus became human on earth but anytime the Father want to put His own word into action He always gives It life.

I know that Jesus was the one who knew the father so well and he disclosed whom the father is to them. these knowledge is what some in the yearned for. however, contextually Jesus words here is in a different context with the one said at john14. Part of what the disciples saw which others yearned for was the powerful work they performed when they went for preaching, to the extent that demons were made subject to them.

I didn't say they did not see what happen but what lead to Jesus' statement is what I've cleared above.

again, when Jesus made that statement at john 14 he wasn't implying equality with the Father. They truly had no need for the Father cos Jesus said what the father could have said had He been with them.

How did you know it wasn't implied equality?
remember they didn't say Jesus should tell them what they need to hear from the Father but they said [size=14pt]"Show us the Father and it is sufficient for us."[/size] That's the statement which is very clear!

I know you saw those highted part of my reply above. let md repeat:
I shall not speak much
with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the
world is coming. And he has no hold
on me, 31 but, in order for the world
to know that I love the Father, even
as the Father has given me
commandment [to do], so I am
doing . Get up, let us go from here.
with this commandment which Jesus never went against, seeing Jesus is like seeing the Father. He was a perfect representative of the Father.

How this different from my point.....did I say God Himself present here on earth? Only that I don't like the word REPRESENTATIVE.

Another comment I made above is:
28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am
going away and I am coming [back] to
YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would
rejoice that I am going my way to
the Father, because the Father is
greater than I am.
From that verse, can we say that Jesus claimed to be equal to the Father?

Going by the word of Athanasian with this last statement "......yet they are not three Gods but one God, and these three are [size=13pt]distinct[/size] from one another" what do you understand by the word "DISTINCT", I don't know how many time I'm going to repeat this statement.

I have also told you how Trinitarian confuses themselves by thinking <<<<God leave heaven and came down to earth HIMSELF>>>> which is totally false/misunderstanding of the word TRINITY....God only put His own Word into action by made It to became flesh which He sent into the word and put all His uniqueness on Him....Isa 9:6 "for unto us a child was born, unto us a child is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called---Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty GOD, The everlasting Father, The prince of Peace"
Remember God said "my glory will I share with anybody" including Angels.
The government shall be upon his shoulder is when God has putting EVERYTHING under the Kingdom of His son in other to reconciled them to Himself.

Shalom!

Emusan:
Depend on how you interpret it.

please answer the question, and be specific.

Jesus is the "Word of God" being literal or in action.
In 1Peter 1:23 which I've stated earlier Jesus was called the literal Word of God 1Peter 1:23 " AMP:You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.

ESV:since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

KJV:Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

NIV:For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.[/b]
NB: where "the Word of God" appeared in that text you can put Jesus and it will perfectly fit.
Jesus became human on earth but anytime the Father want to put His own word into action He always gives It life.

the bolded has made your reply unspecific ie your adding 'in action'. I repeat, was Jesus the literal word of God? the implication is that God cannot speak again 'cos His word has been made human. His word can only pass through the person His word materialized into. Please give direct Yes or No answer. I dont need more sermon.

secondly, my second question was not attended to. I repeat: Was it on only earth that Jesus became a person?

I didn't say they did not see what happen but what lead to Jesus' statement is what I've cleared above.

How did you know it wasn't implied equality?
remember they didn't say Jesus should tell them what they need to hear from the Father but they said [size=14pt]"Show us the Father and it is sufficient for us."[/size] That's the statement which is very clear!

So Jesus showed them the Father, ie himself?

How this different from my point.....did I say God Himself present here on earth? Only that I don't like the word REPRESENTATIVE.

noted.

Going by the word of Athanasian with this last statement "......yet they are not three Gods but one God, and these three are [size=13pt]distinct[/size] from one another" what do you understand by the word "DISTINCT", I don't know how many time I'm going to repeat this statement.

I have also told you how Trinitarian confuses themselves by thinking <<<<God leave heaven and came down to earth HIMSELF>>>> which is totally false/misunderstanding of the word TRINITY....God only put His own Word into action by made It to became flesh which He sent into the word and put all His uniqueness on Him....Isa 9:6 "for unto us a child was born, unto us a child is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called---Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty GOD, The everlasting Father, The prince of Peace"
Remember God said "my glory will I share with anybody" including Angels.
The government shall be upon his shoulder is when God has putting EVERYTHING under the Kingdom of His son in other to reconciled them to Himself.

Shalom!

Going by the word of Athanasian
with this last statement "......yet
they are not three Gods but one
God, and these three are distinct
from one another" what do you
understand by the word
"DISTINCT", I don't know how
many time I'm going to repeat this
statement.
I have also told you how Trinitarian
confuses themselves by thinking
<<<<God leave heaven and came
down to earth HIMSELF>>>> which
is totally false/misunderstanding of
the word TRINITY....God only put
His own Word into action by made
It to became flesh which He sent
into the word and put all His
uniqueness on Him....Isa 9:6
"for unto us a child was born,
unto us a child is given: and the
government shall be upon his
shoulder: and his name shall be
called---Wonderful, Counselor,
The mighty GOD, The everlasting
Father, The prince of Peace"
Remember God said "my glory will I
share with anybody" including
Angels.
The government shall be upon his
shoulder is when God has putting
EVERYTHING under the Kingdom of
His son in other to reconciled them
to Himself.

ok. but i understood your reply, but being specific and direct is essential. even if you want to give further prove, you should first give direct reply to the question. i quote:

Another comment I made above is:
28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I
am
going away and I am coming [back]
to
YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would
rejoice that I am going my way to
the Father, because the Father is
greater than I am.
[size=16pt]From that verse, can we say that
Jesus claimed to be equal to the
Father?[/size]

Yes or no before further point.

JMAN05:

please answer the question, and be specific.

Your answer to this question determine my response, who is Holyspirit to you.

the bolded has made your reply unspecific ie your adding 'in action'. I repeat, was Jesus the literal word of God? the implication is that God cannot speak again 'cos His word has been made human. His word can only pass through the person His word materialized into. Please give direct Yes or No answer. I dont need more sermon.

No at all but your failure to understand my posts makes it looked so.
The "word in action with life" was only given a name after It has been made to be like his brethren.....human not as Angel.
So if you have power to turn your word into an object that means you can't speak again? SMH
My question was Jesus refers to as a literal word of God or not?

secondly, my second question was not attended to. I repeat: Was it on only earth that Jesus became a person?

I believe the question you wantend to ask here is, did Jesus exist as a person before He came down to earth? If I get you right then, He always exist in any form God wants to use Him...Apostle Paul made it clear that the rock which Moses struck in the wilderness was Christ.
Most Prophet in the OT received message this way "The word of God came to me, saying" here it's in two ways is either they hear it from heaven or the word in form of a person stand beside them and talk.

Reason well and stop make me preach again.

So Jesus showed them the Father, ie himself?

Any how you understand it.

-

JMAN05:

ok. but i understood your reply, but being specific and direct is essential. even if you want to give further prove, you should first give direct reply to the question. i quote:

Another comment I made above is:
28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I
am
going away and I am coming [back]
to
YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would
rejoice that I am going my way to
the Father, because the Father is
greater than I am.
[size=16pt]From that verse, can we say that
Jesus claimed to be equal to the
Father?[/size]

Yes or no before further point.

Stop being behaving like a kid, I asked you question you couldn't answer yet you keep repeating the same thing. This is my question, what do you understand by the word DISTINCT?
I never ask you this but let me ask now, whose word became flesh in John 1:14?

By the way, are you among those who claimed that God created Jesus as an Angel and used Him to created the universe?

hehehe, the guilty are afraid even when no one is chasing him. Hehehe.

Emusan:
Your answer to this question determine my response, who is Holyspirit to you.

You ve not answered mine. another chance.

No at all but your failure to understand my posts makes it looked so.
The "word in action with life" was only given a name after It has been made to be like his brethren.....human not as Angel.

"word in action with life" didnt appear in the previous comment. you are still dodging the question. is he a literal word of God? yes or no.

So if you have power to turn your word into an object that means you can't speak again? SMH
My question was Jesus refers to as a literal word of God or not?

1. maybe you should start by checking the meaning of literal.

2. Still dodging.

I believe the question you wantend to ask here is, did Jesus exist as a person before He came down to earth? If I get you right then, He always exist in any form God wants to use Him...Apostle Paul made it clear that the rock which Moses struck in the wilderness was Christ.
Most Prophet in the OT received message this way "The word of God came to me, saying" here it's in two ways is either they hear it from heaven or the word in form of a person stand beside them and talk.

Reason well and stop make me preach again.

In other words, if the word of God is made human, it cannot be used as a thing at the same time?

Any how you understand it.

that is not an answer.

Stop being behaving like a kid, I asked you question you couldn't answer yet you keep repeating the same thing. This is my question, what do you understand by the word DISTINCT?

different. by the way who is acting as a kid here? how does the question i asked relate to their being different persons?

I repeat:

Another comment I made above is:
28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I
am
going away and I am coming [back]
to
YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would
rejoice that I am going my way to
the Father, because the Father is
greater than I am.
[size=16pt]From that verse, can we say that
Jesus claimed to be equal to the
Father?[/size]

Please dont dodge the question again. abeg.

I never ask you this but let me ask now, whose word became flesh in John 1:14?

By the way, are you among those who claimed that God created Jesus as an Angel and used Him to created the universe?

1. God's, so does it mean that he is a literal word of God? yes or no man.

2. When you are through in defending yours, we face mine.

I am just giving you an opportunity to clearify yourself. I will take the ones you ve given to arrive at a conclusion, if you continue this dodging campaign of yours.

Emusan :

Jesus is the "Word of God" being literal or in action.
In 1Peter 1:23 which I've stated earlier Jesus was called the literal Word of God 1Peter 1:23 " AMP:You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.

ESV:since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

KJV:Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

NIV:For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.[/b]
NB: where "the Word of God" appeared in that text you can put Jesus and it will perfectly fit.
Jesus became human on earth but anytime the Father want to put His own word into action He always gives It life.

Smoke and mirrors. You say where " the word of God" appeared "Jesus" would fit perfectly, but it amounts to a blatant and very common manipulation, the verse reads fine exactly as it and is probably what the writer intended until the Trinitarian crew came along working backwards trying to prove the pre-existence of Jesus.

The book of John opens with the famous declaration, "in the beginning was the word......."
The Greek term translated "word" is Logos. It signifies the outward form of inward thought or reason, or the spoken word illustrative of thought, wisdom and doctrine.

John is teaching that in the very beginning, God's purpose, wisdom or revelation had been in evidence. It was "with God" in that it came from him; it "was God" in that it represented him to mankind [a similar expression is used by Jesus in Matthew 26:28: "This is my blood" i.e this represents my blood. This Word, Wisdom or Doctrine found its reality, its substance, its confirmation in the person of Jesus.

The person did not exist before the birth of the child Jesus, but the promise and wisdom of God always existed.


In John 1:4 it is fully acknowledged that "word" is personified as Jesus, but "personification" is a common early Jewish writing mechanism and occurs severally throughout the bible. The pre-existence of Jesus, like the trinity has no legs to stand on.

Sarassin:

Smoke and mirrors. You say where " the word of God" appeared "Jesus" would fit perfectly, but it amounts to a blatant and very common manipulation, the verse reads fine exactly as it and is probably what the writer intended until the Trinitarian crew came along working backwards trying to prove the pre-existence of Jesus.

Oh my God...I said substitude Jesus in the verse I quoted above now you've linked it with the whole Bible.....I said put Jesus in a place of the Word of God whether it means the literal word of God or not....

The book of John opens with the famous declaration, "in the beginning was the word......."
The Greek term translated "word" is Logos. It signifies the outward form of inward thought or reason, or the spoken word illustrative of thought, wisdom and doctrine.

Ok

John is teaching that in the very beginning, God's purpose, wisdom or revelation had been in evidence. It was "with God" in that it came from him; it "was God" in that it represented him to mankind [a similar expression is used by Jesus in Matthew 26:28: "This is my blood" i.e this represents my blood. This Word, Wisdom or Doctrine found its reality, its substance, its confirmation in the person of Jesus.

We are still trying to disprove each other.....

The person did not exist before the birth of the child Jesus, but the promise and wisdom of God always existed.

How come Jesus said He has glory with the Father before the World begins?

In John 1:4 it is fully acknowledged that "word" is personified as Jesus, but "personification" is a common early Jewish writing mechanism and occurs severally throughout the bible. The pre-existence of Jesus, like the trinity has no legs to stand on.

If you read that John 1:1-14 you will get yourself right better.....

Emusan :

How come Jesus said He has glory with the Father before the World begins?

You are referring to John 17:5, Again, context is necessary, lets see;

Paul states; " God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him" (Ephesians 1:4) Therefore by your reasoning, if John 17:5 refers to the pre-existence of Jesus then (Eph 1:4) must by implication mean the pre-existence of the followers of Jesus, do you agree ??

The same language occurs again, here The Lord is referring to the prophet Jeremiah;

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5)

Do you also agree that Jeremiah Pre-existed his birth ? If you don’t agree in both cases what makes you think that the passage in John 17:5 refers to the pre-existence of Jesus, afterall, the language is the same ?

Sarassin:

You are referring to John 17:5, Again, context is necessary, lets see;

Paul states; " God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him" (Ephesians 1:4) Therefore by your reasoning, if John 17:5 refers to the pre-existence of Jesus then (Eph 1:4) must by implication mean the pre-existence of the followers of Jesus, do you agree ??

The same language occurs again, here The Lord is referring to the prophet Jeremiah;

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5)

Do you also agree that Jeremiah Pre-existed his birth ? If you don’t agree in both cases what makes you think that the passage in John 17:5 refers to the pre-existence of Jesus, afterall, the language is the same ?

I wonder how some people treated ordinary basic English this days.....
"God chooses us before the world begins" does it relate with the statement of Jesus "I HAVE glory WITH you"/As a person did you know when God chose you? and again God is telling Jeremiah "before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee"......was it God who is speaking or Jeremiah/did Jeremiah aware of his existence when God is about to form him? In case of Jesus He was fully aware of His existence before He came to earth....see what Jesus told people......John 6:62 "AMP What then[will be your reaction] if you should see the Son of Man [size=14pt]ascending[/size] to [the place] where He was before?
ESV: Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
KJV: What and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before?

In this verse you can surely see that Jesus fully knows where He came from and where He's going.
This verse alone clearified any argument about pre-existence of Yehshua!

Shalom!

Emusan:

I wonder how some people treated ordinary basic English this days.....
"God chooses us before the world begins" does it relate with the statement of Jesus "I HAVE glory WITH you"/As a person did you know when God chose you? and again God is telling Jeremiah "before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee"......was it God who is speaking or Jeremiah/did Jeremiah aware of his existence when God is about to form him? In case of Jesus He was fully aware of His existence before He came to earth....see what Jesus told people......John 6:62 "AMP What then[will be your reaction] if you should see the Son of Man [size=14pt]ascending[/size] to [the place] where He was before?
ESV: Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
KJV: What and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before?

In this verse you can surely see that Jesus fully knows where He came from and where He's going.
This verse alone clearified any argument about pre-existence of Yehshua!

Shalom!

You should worry about your own basic English.
John 6:62 clarifies nothing ! As you well know this verse was so utterly ridiculous that even his disciples walked away from him. (verse 66) Clearly early Jews knew nothing about a pre-existence.

In the time honoured manner of many a Christian before you and doubtless, many after you, you simply wilfully ignore the obvious. The context of the two verses I quoted earlier from Ephesians and Jeremiah are exactly the same i.e a "placement of pre-existence". If Paul says "God chose us in him....." then the same absurd argument can also be made that he was aware of a pre-existence since he was chosen "before the foundation of the world", the same goes for Jeremiah, it does not matter one iota who is speaking, but in the context of Jeremiah it is indeed God speaking to him. The awareness of pre-existence is not the issue here, but the fact of pre-existence

Sarassin:

You should worry about your own basic English.
John 6:62 clarifies nothing ! As you well know this verse was so [size=14pt]utterly ridiculous[/size] that even his disciples walked away from him. (verse 66) Clearly early Jews knew nothing about a pre-existence.

SMH......did you mean Jesus' statement in that verse that make people to walked away from Him?
You have answer to your post already but I was only trying to show you the light of the scriptures.
Now to your misunderstanding of that CH. 6 the statement begins in verse 24 when Jesus begins to talk about "manner from heaven and then relate it to His mission" which the people failed to conceived with their spiritual mind, Jesus now says "whosoever eateth his flesh & drinketh his blood it's he that hath life in him" which made people say "this is hard saying who can hear it-verse60" immediately Jesus knew within Himself that the people were murmuring vr61...He then asked them are you people offended because of that....what then if you shall see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? vr62 Can you see what lead to that statement? And vr66 says from that time many of His disciples walked with him know more save the twelve. Read the whole chapter yourself from beginning.

In the time honoured manner of many a Christian before you and doubtless, many after you, you simply wilfully ignore the obvious. The context of the two verses I quoted earlier from Ephesians and Jeremiah are exactly the same i.e a "placement of pre-existence". If Paul says "God chose us in him....." then the same absurd argument can also be made that he was aware of a pre-existence since he was chosen "before the foundation of the world", the same goes for Jeremiah, it does not matter one iota who is speaking, but in the context of Jeremiah it is indeed God speaking to him. The awareness of pre-existence is not the issue here, but the fact of pre-existence

I've clarified my point. With the statement of that Ephesians I will like to ask you this question, did God know those who will make heaven or not?
Both the Ephessians and Jeremiah never claim pre-existence it only shows the ability of All-knowing God, it will be better you add vr 3&5 to that Eph to fully understand Paul's statement and for Jeremiah no doubt about that.
See John the Baptist's statement about Jesus' preexistence John 1:15 "NASB:John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’”
John was born before Jesus how come John said Jesus existed before Him?

Though you have drifted away from the initial point of this thread I mean Trinity but both Trinity & Yehshua preexistence are well supported by scriptures but to you I'm quoting them out of context of which you never provided an actual meaning to those verses.

Emusan :

He then asked them are you people offended because of that....what then if you shall see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? vr62

There is an entire theology surrounding the "ascension" but it has nothing to do with pre-existence, it has more to do with the form and substance of the Holy Spirit.

Both the Ephessians and Jeremiah never claim pre-existence it only shows the ability of All-knowing God, it will be better you add vr 3&5 to that Eph to fully understand Paul's statement and for Jeremiah no doubt about that.

You can at least see the absurdity in trying to make a case for the pre-existence of Paul and his followers as well as the Prophet Jeremiah, but it is the same criteria used to establish the pre-existence of Jesus in John 17:5.

You asked me whether; "God chooses us before the world begins" does it relate with the statement of Jesus "I HAVE glory WITH you"/As a person did you know when God chose you?

The statements clearly relate because both are used to demonstrate prior knowledge pre-birth by the writer, therefore if pre-existence is not claimed by Paul Or Jeremiah then by using the same criteria it cannot be used to claim the same for Jesus.

See John the Baptist's statement about Jesus' preexistence John 1:15 "NASB:John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’”
John was born before Jesus how come John said Jesus existed before Him?

John the Baptist said no such thing. I would advise you read the KJV;

“John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.”

Here is a translation from earlier Greek versions;

"This was of whom I said; he coming after me, before me has become; for compared to me, his position ranks foremost."

In its earliest forms, the verse has nothing to do with pre-existence and more to do with the pre-eminence of Jesus above John the Baptist.

Read the words of Peter in 1Peter 1:20, “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” [/i]I am sure you can pick out the keyword.

Read the apocalypse of John in Revelations 13:8[i] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Was Jesus crucified before the ‘’foundation of the world” ? Literally NO.

We are told, Jesus was the descendant of David, David was himself told ;"When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, WHICH SHALL PROCEED OUT OF THY BOWELS, and I will establish his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he [b]shall [/b]be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men"(2 Sam. 7:12-14).

I have highlighted the keywords for you, particularly the future tense "shall be my son"

It should be obvious now God, who knows the end from the beginning, foresaw the glory of Jesus and proclaimed it through the prophets. We can say that the ultimate glory of Jesus was in the mind and purpose of God from the very beginning. Pre-existence of Jesus and therefore the trinity are false teachings and are clearly not scripturally supported unless you wish to pervert the bible. I am also happy to provide precise meanings for the verses I have argued with you, perhaps we'd need another thread, hopefully we can get back to discussing the false teaching of the trinity.

sarassin: There is an entire theology surrounding the "ascension" but it has nothing to do with pre-exisence, it has more to do with the form and substance of the Holy Spirwit.

You haven't gotten my point on this issue!
Lemme come again.......Pay attention closely to these phrases as there're being used in those verses....

Eph 1:3-5 3 "..who hath blessed us with spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:"
4 "According as [size=14pt]he(God) hath chosen us in him...(Christ)[/size]
5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ...."
That's why I asked you to read it from vr3-5. Notice the word "PREDESTINATED"!

Now on Jeremiah....[size=14pt]"Before I(God) formed thee(Jeremiah) in the belly I(God) knew thee....."[/size] the message here is as clear as crystal. God knew us before we were formed in the belly NOT WHEN WE ARE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM notice these two words "formed" & "in the belly".

Now see the statement of Jesus here because I can see you ignored the key point in that verse and hold on to "ascension".
John 6:62 "what and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up [size=16pt]where he(Jesus) was before?[/size]
AMP: inserted [to the place] after ascend up....my point on this verse is "where he was before" that's why I said earlier that Jesus fully knew where He came from and where is going. Both Eph & Jeremiah have nothing to do with pre-existence only if you decided to give them your own meaning.

About Jesus being a descendant of David it's something beyond this forum because I'm tired of typing & repetition.

That John 1:15 you also missed that same point I mean this phrase [size=14pt]"...for he(Jesus) was before me(John the Baptist)[/size] and remember John was BORN before Jesus....how come?


Shalom!

Sarassin:


I think it is rather difficult for many Christians to make a presentation of the trinity without being contradictory.

Curiously, we see the first ever use of the term trinity by the famous mathematician, philosopher and mystic of the Orphean tradition, Pythagoras.(6BCE) He leaves us his teachings. For Pythagoras, the God-creator represented number 1,which he called a Monad and it existed in a form of Two opposites +1 and -1, a pair called he called a Diad thus combined to constitute a divine Triad.

It is this pagan Hellenic tradition that forms the basis for the evolution of the early Christian concept of the Holy Trinity.

Been reading your posts for sometime now
What religion do you practice
I'd have more questions as time goes on..

jupiterx:

Been reading your posts for sometime now
What religion do you practice
I'd have more questions as time goes on..

Thanks for reading. I do not practice any religion.

Sarassin:


Thanks for reading. I do not practice any religion.

My questions will probably be elementary cause I know little
Can I email you?

jupiterx:

My questions will probably be elementary cause I know little
Can I email you?

You can indeed. You can also ask your questions here, if I can answer I will do my best.

Sarassin:


You can indeed. You can also ask your questions here, if I can answer I will do my best.

Have sent a mail requesting to be able to send a mail