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Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` - Religion - Nairaland

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Questions Concerning Tithes Offering. / An Expose On Pastor Chris Okotie / Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles (2) (3) (4)

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Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` by noblefada: 12:26pm On Oct 16, 2013
First of all let me state clearly that this is not my teaching or write-up, it is from a great man of God from Nigeria, one of the greatest bible teachers of our time! Thought sharing it will clear a lot of issues on the topic. Pls be patient to read.
Concerning tithes, giving etc
this post seems long but
kindly sit back and read
through.
The issue of tithes, offerings
and always generates
unusual attention when
raised.
The two major schools
usually are within these
divides Tithing is for today, though
its under the law, it precedes
the law in the giving of same
to Melchizedek by Abram.
And Tithing is not a practice of
the New Testament as its an
old covenant mode of
giving, the new covenant
teaches giving as u are led
or u want.
By practice, I don't join
schools of thought. If any
school at all I am a stickler
to the epistles, with
particular emphasis in the
Pauline revelation by precept
and practice. I believe peter
endeavored this too.
2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
[15] And account that the
longsuffering of our Lord is
salvation; even as our
beloved brother Paul also
according to the wisdom
given unto him hath written
unto you;
[16] As also in all his
epistles, speaking in them of
these things; in which are
some things hard to be
understood, which they that
are unlearned and unstable
wrest, as they do also the
other scriptures, unto their
own destruction.
Because of the handicap of
this media,I will recommend
a series to any one who
intend to hear my study on
the subject of tithing:
Must a christian tithe.
Bible truth on tithe and
offerings.
New Testament giving.
Concerning giving and
reviving.
Just give.

U could order for them by
visiting www.saintscommunity.net or www.livingwordmedia.org
Hence I will address some
very pivotal issues
Tithe is a word in
scripture, it needs not a
party for or against.
Abram gave tithes
Genesis 14:20 KJV
[20] And blessed be the most
high God, which hath
delivered thine enemies into
thy hand. And he gave him
tithes of all.
Jacob gave tithes(or promised to)
Genesis 28:22 KJV
[22] And this stone, which I
have set for a pillar, shall be
God's house: and of all that
thou shalt give me I will
surely give the tenth unto
thee.
Take note of the two
instances.
Abram gave tithes of spoils
of war (I doubt whether it
referred to animal produce
or plants as some want to
adduce). Also notice its only
recorded once.
Take further notice, it was
because he was blessed. Not
to be blessed.
The Epistles emphatically
state Abraham (abram in this
case ) was blessed by Gods
promise
Romans 4:2-3 KJV
[2] For if Abraham were
justified by works, he hath
whereof to glory; but not
before God.
[3] For what saith the
scripture? Abraham believed
God, and it was counted
unto him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:18 KJV
[18] For if the inheritance be
of the law, it is no more of
promise: but God gave it to
Abraham by promise.
So,abram was blessed in
Chapter 12,gave tithes in
Chapter 14.
He gave tithes because IT
WAS NOT TIGHT FOR HIM
In Jacobs case, He only
vowed to tithe upon
receiving Gods blessings.
I will exempt the cases under
the law(I dealt with that a bit
extensively in the series
mentioned above)
However, I suggest it's either
naive or deceptive to ask
anyone to tithe because both
of these bible characters
gave tithes. We are NEVER
instructed in the Epistles to
model after ANY Old
Testament saints.
Hebrews 12:1-2 KJV
[1] Wherefore seeing we also
are compassed about with so
great a cloud of witnesses,
let us lay aside every weight,
and the sin which doth so
easily beset us , and let us
run with patience the race
that is set before us,
[2] Looking unto Jesus the
author and finisher of our
faith; who for the joy that
was set before him endured
the cross, despising the
shame, and is set down at
the right hand of the throne
of God.
This scripture says to look
Unto Jesus.
This refers to His finished
work.
The reasons were very
clear.These men were not
perfected by the blood as we
are today.
Hebrews 11:39-40 KJV
[39] And these all, having
obtained a good report
through faith, received not
the promise:
[40] God having provided
some better thing for us,
that they without us should
not be made perfect.
Notice it says they without
Us are not made
perfected. NOT us without
them. They needed us to be
perfect and not vice versa.
If we are to practice things
they did,they are a lot more
than tithing.
Abram gave his son
Isaac, had a second wife,
Jacob had 3 wives,both
regularly offered burnt
offerings.
These were equally
mentioned in the epistles .
So, quoting Hebrews 7 text
for tithing is very dishonest.
Melchizedek was a type of
Christ priesthood. He was
made like unto (figure of
speech) the Son (referring to
his historical records). You
can equally or der for our
study "Our priesthood in
Christ" we had some study
on priesthood.
Hebrews 7 was Only stating
the obvious as written in
Genesis 14 and wasn't giving
any instruction.
Some speak of tithing by
faith.
Thats rather difficult sell.
You sure wont offer animals
by faith either .Christ has
been given .
You can't place a "faith" tag
on you fancy or likes, It what
is written and instructed in
scriptures that is acted upon
and referred to as Faith.
Tithing was a well known
practice to the Jews.
Jesus mentioned it.
Matthew 23:23 KJV
[23] Woe unto you, scribes
and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye pay tithe of mint and
anise and cummin, and have
omitted the weightier
matters of the law,
judgment, mercy, and faith:
these ought ye to have done,
and not to leave the other
undone.
If u claim he was teaching
tithe here, then you must be
very dishonest ,having
discontent for the integrity
of Gods word.
He wasn't .
He was rebuking those who
tithe,yet ignore weightier
matters of The LAW.
Faith here is better
translated faithfulness
(loyalty). As the Law is not of
Faith
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
[11] But that no man is
justified by the law in the
sight of God, it is evident:
for, The just shall live by
faith.
[12] And the law is not of
faith: but, The man that
doeth them shall live in
them.
Romans 3:28 KJV
[28] Therefore we conclude
that a man is justified by
faith without the deeds of
the law.
Its on record that tithing was
NEVER mentioned by
Paul, Peter,James,John,Jude
or even in the book of
revelation.
The ONLY reference was
Hebrews 7 ,I suppose we can
rightly divide that without
qualms .
To be cont'd.
Re: Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` by noblefada: 12:29pm On Oct 16, 2013
I once heard a preacher
teach that Ananias and
Saphira died because they
lied on tithing.
God killed them because
they held back the tithe.
Such a man is a deceptive
preacher and according to
scriptures should be avoided.
1 Timothy 6:5 KJV
[5] Perverse disputings of
men of corrupt minds, and
destitute of the truth,
supposing that gain is
godliness: from such
withdraw thyself.
A much more perverse
doctrine stated that Adam
and Eve ate tithe, hence put
the Whole human race in
sin. It further states that
Abel offered tithe (first fruit)
and was justified.
Such men are dangerous. As
a culture I avoid their
teachings.
Even when it's do clear Abel
was justified by faith.
Hebrews 11:4 KJV
[4] By faith Abel offered unto
God a more excellent
sacrifice than Cain, by which
he obtained witness that he
was righteous, God testifying
of his gifts: and by it he
being dead yet speaketh.
His gift was the blood of an
animal. A Type of Jesus
offering of blood.
Abel had the substance of
Jesus blood hoped for,the
evidence of His sacrifice for
sins not seen(Hebrews 11:1)
Jesus authored in the Old
covenant By His Word
(hebrews11:3) and perfected
such faith In His death and
ascension in the New
covenant (Hebrews12:2).
Hence we look unto
Jesus, our perfect offering.
His blood is better (lasting
and eternal) than Abel's
offering
Hebrews 12:24 KJV
[24] And to Jesus the
mediator of the new
covenant, and to the blood
of sprinkling, that speaketh
better things than that of
Abel.
Is giving money a condition
for material blessing in the
New Covenant?
Before I delve into this I will
love again to clarify some
scriptures .
Simple rules of scriptures
interpretation is to stick to
context.
Read the preceding verse(s)
and the proceeding verse(s).
2 Corinthians 8:9 KJV
[9] For ye know the grace of
our Lord Jesus Christ, that,
though he was rich, yet for
your sakes he became poor,
that ye through his poverty
might be rich.
We are not physically rich
because Jesus was physically
poor.
It's very naive or deceptive
reading.
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV
[21] For he hath made him to
be sin for us, who knew no
sin; that we might be made
the righteousness of God in
him.
This verse explains it.
Jesus death, gave us
life. Righteousness.
Further more, He wasn't
giving a prosperity scripture.
He was teaching
sacrifice. Giving to meet
other people's needs.
You becoming poor to make
others rich.
What is this grace?
2 Corinthians 8:1-8 KJV
[1] Moreover, brethren, we
do you to wit of the grace of
God bestowed on the
churches of Macedonia
; [2] How that in a great trial
of affliction the abundance
of their joy and their deep
poverty abounded unto the
riches of their liberality.
[3] For to their power, I bear
record, yea, and beyond
their power they were willing
of themselves; [4] Praying us
with much intreaty that we
would receive the gift, and
take upon us the fellowship
of the ministering to the
saints.
[5] And this they did , not as
we hoped, but first gave
their own selves to the Lord,
and unto us by the will of
God.
[6] Insomuch that we desired
Titus, that as he had begun,
so he would also finish in
you the same grace also.
[7] Therefore, as ye abound
in every thing, in faith, and
utterance, and knowledge,
and in all diligence, and in
your love to us, see that ye
abound in this grace also.
[8] I speak not by
commandment, but by
occasion of the forwardness
of others, and to prove the
sincerity of your love.
The grace of liberality .Not
Grace to become rich.Rather
to make others full by
becoming empty.
New Testament giving is
giving to meet others needs
and not yours .
Lets view some examples
Acts 2:44-45 KJV
[44] And all that believed
were together, and had all
things common;
[45] And sold their
possessions and goods, and
parted them to all men , as
every man had need.
Acts 4:34-35 KJV
[34] Neither was there any
among them that lacked: for
as many as were possessors
of lands or houses sold
them, and brought the prices
of the things that were sold,
[35] And laid them down at
the apostles' feet: and
distribution was made unto
every man according as he
had need.
When the economy in
Jerusalem was known by the
Spirit ahead of time to go
bad.
They didn't organize
prosperity conventions .or
"how to sow your way out of
this recession " seminar or
asked to sow $419 for all 419
blessings of scriptures for
prosperity
Acts 11:28-30 KJV
[28] And there stood up one
of them named Agabus, and
signified by the Spirit that
there should be great dearth
throughout all the world:
which came to pass in the
days of Claudius Caesar.
29] Then the disciples, every
man according to his ability,
determined to send relief
unto the brethren which
dwelt in Judaea:
[30] Which also they did, and
sent it to the elders by the
hands of Barnabas and Saul.
Believers who were better off
simply gave!
Even paul.
Acts 20:33-35 KJV
[33] I have coveted no man's
silver, or gold, or apparel.
[34] Yea, ye yourselves know,
that these hands have
ministered unto my
necessities, and to them that
were with me.
[35] I have shewed you all
things, how that so labouring
ye ought to support the
weak, and to remember the
words of the Lord Jesus, how
he said, It is more blessed to
give than to receive.
I guess he hasn't learnt the
laws of sowing up to go
up,where only members give
to pastors.
He gave to his fellow
ministers who had need!
Romans 12:13 KJV
[13] Distributing to the
necessity of saints; given to
hospitality.(needs of the
saints)
Ephesians 4:28 KJV
[28] Let him that stole steal
no more: but rather let him
labour, working with his
hands the thing which is
good, that he may have to
give to him that needeth.
Very apt .
Galatians 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And let us not be weary in
well doing: for in due season
we shall reap, if we faint not.
[10] As we have therefore
opportunity, let us do good
unto all men , especially
unto them who are of the
household of faith
1 Corinthians 16:1,3 KJV
[1] Now concerning the
collection for the saints, as I
have given order to the
churches of Galatia, even so
do ye.
[3] And when I come,
whomsoever ye shall
approve by your letters,
them will I send to bring
your liberality unto
Jerusalem.
To be cont'd
Re: Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` by noblefada: 12:31pm On Oct 16, 2013
Take notice that emphasis is
for saints.
Distributing free food on the
streets and engaging in
corporate social
responsibility whilst saints
are in need is simply lack of
focus .
The emphasis is on believers.
It appears we might be doing
charity work for media
attention.
Some misquote Matthew 25.
Matthew 25:40 KJV
[40] And the King shall
answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of
these my brethren, ye have
done it unto me.
He referred to brethren. He
won't use this for the
unsaved.
Back to giving.
Philippians 4:16 KJV
[16] For even in Thessalonica
ye sent once and again unto
my necessity.
They gave to Paul's needs.
1 Timothy 6:18 KJV
[18] That they do good, that
they be rich in good works,
ready to distribute, willing to
communicate;
No time where we told to
give so God will meet our
needs.
We even misquote
2 corinthians 9
Kindly read with me.
2 Corinthians 9:5-8,11 KJV
[5] Therefore I thought it
necessary to exhort the
brethren, that they would go
before unto you, and make
up beforehand your bounty,
whereof ye had notice
before, that the same might
be ready, as a matter of
bounty, and not as of
covetousness.
[6] But this I say, He which
soweth sparingly shall reap
also sparingly; and he which
soweth bountifully shall reap
also bountifully.
[7] Every man according as
he purposeth in his heart, so
let him give ; not grudgingly,
or of necessity: for God
loveth a cheerful giver.
[8] And God is able to make
all grace abound toward you;
that ye, always having all
sufficiency in all things , may
abound to every good work:
[11] Being enriched in every
thing to all bountifulness,
which causeth through us
thanksgiving to God.
Is he teaching give to reap
bountifully I.E have more?
That's again either a
function of laziness or
deception.
Verse 8 says God is the giver
who enables you to abound
unto every good work.
Grace means to give without
conditions.
He explains this
2 Corinthians 9:9-15 KJV
[9] (As it is written, He hath
dispersed abroad; he hath
given to the poor: his
righteousness remaineth for
ever.
He is teaching giving to the
needy
[10] Now he that ministereth
seed to the sower both
minister bread for your food,
and multiply your seed sown,
and increase the fruits of
your righteousnesswink
Here God gives you what to
give.seed to sow and bread
for your food too.He
multiplies what you have
given. How?
[11] Being enriched in every
thing to all bountifulness,
which causeth through us
thanksgiving to God.
[12] For the administration
of this service not only
supplieth the want of the
saints, but is abundant also
by many thanksgivings unto
God;
[13] Whiles by the
experiment of this
ministration they glorify God
for your professed
subjection unto the gospel
of Christ, and for your
liberal distribution unto
them, and unto all men;
[14] And by their prayer for
you, which long after you for
the exceeding grace of God
in you. [15] Thanks be unto
God for his unspeakable gift.
We assume we are sowing
into our lives.or sowing into
another's life and the fruit
comes through ours!
haba,Thats illogic.
Verse 12-we supply the
wants of the saints. Its
comes back with MANY
thanksgivings unto God.
And verse 14,we keep
excelling (exceeding) in this
grace of giving from what we
receive from God.
The harvest of our sowing is
in the lives of the saints we
blessed.
Same as Jesus sowed into
our lives,and our Lives bear
the harvest.
Is it only the needs of
saints?
No.
Galatians 6:6 KJV
[6] Let him that is taught in
the word communicate unto
him that teacheth in all good
things.
Philippians 4:18 KJV
[18] But I have all, and
abound: I am full, having
received of Epaphroditus the
things which were sent from
you, an odour of a sweet
smell, a sacrifice acceptable,
wellpleasing to God.
Paul was blessed by saints
he taught the word.
1 Corinthians 9:11 KJV
[11] If we have sown unto
you spiritual things, is it a
great thing if we shall reap
your carnal things?
Those who minister spiritual
things to us.
Romans 15:27 KJV
[27] It hath pleased them
verily; and their debtors they
are. For if the Gentiles have
been made partakers of their
spiritual things, their duty is
also to minister unto them in
carnal things.
(Though contextually he
refers again here to needs of
saints in Jerusalem )
We need to realize the needs
of our spiritual leaders in
particular pastors are our
obligations.
Paul's calls his muzzling
when we either refuse this
obligation or treat such with
levity.
1 Corinthians 9:9 KJV
[9] For it is written in the law
of Moses, Thou shalt not
muzzle the mouth of the ox
that treadeth out the corn.
Doth God take care for oxen?
He repeats it.
1 Timothy 5:18 KJV
[18] For the scripture saith,
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox
that treadeth out the corn.
And, The labourer is worthy
of his reward.
It's his right.Due,salary .Our
obligation.
How much do I give or what
measure do I give?
As I am led?
Yes. Led by the written word.
Scriptures, actually tell us
what and how to give.
2 Corinthians 8:2-3 KJV
[2] How that in a great trial
of affliction the abundance
of their joy and their deep
poverty abounded unto the
riches of their liberality. [3] For to their power, I bear
record, yea, and beyond
their power they were willing
of themselves;
They gave beyond their
convenience. sacruficially even in need they
gave.
This is the grace of Jesus.
2 Corinthians 9:6-7 KJV
[6] But this I say, He which
soweth sparingly shall reap
also sparingly; and he which
soweth bountifully shall reap
also bountifully.
[7] Every man according as
he purposeth in his heart, so
let him give; not grudgingly,
or of necessity: for God
loveth a cheerful giver.
Bountifully means
bountifully!
Give well.
Cheerfully (it means laughing
while u do it).
Purpose to give cheerfully
and bountifully. Theres no
freedom to be
loose, lazy, lackadaisical
about giving because u feel u
are not under the law!
Men in the new covenant
gave beyond
percentages. they have
according to their ability.
What was paramount was to
do enough within your
means to meet needs.
They sold houses and lands
(today that might be termed
manipulation )
You are to give more when
you have more.
Just like paul, I tell folks on
our churches who blessed
materially more, they must
give more.
I lead by example.
1 Corinthians 16:2 KJV
[2] Upon the first day of the
week let every one of you lay
by him in store, as God hath
prospered him, that there be
no gatherings when I come.
As u prosper u give more!
1 Timothy 6:17-18 KJV
[17] Charge them that are
rich in this world, that they
be not highminded, nor trust
in uncertain riches, but in
the living God, who giveth us
richly all things to enjoy;
[18] That they do good, that
they be rich in good works,
ready to distribute, willing to
communicate;
The rich were given special
instruction. You must give.
This shows they didn't
become rich by giving.
Rather, they must give
because they are rich.
You church (saints in need
and spiritual leaders must be
blessed because God has
blessed u).
He instruct what to give to
Pastors.
1 Timothy 5:17 KJV
[17] Let the elders that rule
well be counted worthy of
double honour, especially
they who labour in the word
and doctrine.
Double means Double.
It's a measure, percentage.Whatever u give to
others You double to your
Pastors.
As an example, I don't
receive salary from church. I
work for a living.
I ensure I give double to the
church of what everyone
gives.
The New Testament giving
isn't percentage giving of
10%
It's sacrificial, cheerful,bountiful and
honorable giving.
Being stingy isn't a fruit of
the spirit. Neither is
greed, asking God to
multiply money like a
casino.
Philippians 4:19 KJV
[19] But my God shall supply
all your need according to
his riches in glory by Christ
Jesus.
He supplies are need not
according to our seed but
His freely given blessings in
Christ!
And we walk in the new
covenant when we
demonstrate His life and
Nature by giving!
Blessed? say..I am a product
of the New Covenant, I give
unconditionally, sacrificially,
cheerfully because God
meets by needs!
Jesus is Lord, we win! (End).

1 Like

Re: Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` by Candour(m): 2:51pm On Oct 16, 2013
@noblefada.

Thanks for this write up. Pls if its not too much to ask, who is the pastor who wrote this and where is the church he pastor's? If you prefer I send you a mail, pls let me know.

Thanks in anticipation and God bless you plenty
Re: Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` by PastorKun(m): 5:26pm On Oct 16, 2013
smiley
Re: Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` by noblefada: 5:48pm On Oct 16, 2013
Candour: @noblefada.

Thanks for this write up. Pls if its not too much to ask, who is the pastor who wrote this and where is the church he pastor's? If you prefer I send you a mail, pls let me know.

Thanks in anticipation and God bless you plenty
Pls follow the first link in op to get all d Info u require
Re: Concerning Tithes, Giving Etc. An Expose` by Swiftboy(m): 2:53pm On Oct 20, 2013
@op this is a sound teaching! We must give but not cos we're compelled to.we must give with understanding not cos someone quoted scripture.I doubt if pastors can preach this even if they know the truth.however,I learnt here that we're to give even more to the body of Christ,which's better than tithing.

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