Why the Christian God is Impossible
by Chad Docterman

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Source: http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/imposs.htm

Introduction

Christians consider the existence of their God to be an obvious truth that no sane man could deny. I strongly disagree with this assumption not only because evidence for the existence of this presumably ubiquitous yet invisible God is lacking, but because the very nature Christians attribute to this God is self-contradictory.


Proving a universal negative

It is taken for granted by Christians, as well as many atheists, that a universal negative cannot be proven. In this case, that universal negative is the statement that the Christian God does not exist. One would have to have omniscience, they say, in order to prove that anything does not exist. I disagree with this position, however, because omniscience is not needed in order to prove that a thing whose nature is a self-contradiction cannot, and therefore does not exist.

I do not need a complete knowledge of the universe to prove to you that cubic spheres do not exist. Such objects have mutually-exclusive attributes which would render their existence impossible. For example, a cube, by definition, has 8 corners, while a sphere has none. These properties are completely incompatible: they cannot be held simultaneously by the same object. It is my intent to show that the supposed properties of the Christian God Yahweh, like those of a cubic sphere, are incompatible, and by so doing, to show Yahweh's existence to be an impossibility.


Defining YHWH

Before we can discuss the existence of a thing, we must define it. Christians have endowed their God with all of the following attributes: He is eternal, all-powerful, and created everything. He created all the laws of nature and can change anything by an act of will. He is all-good, all-loving, and perfectly just. He is a personal God who experiences all of the emotions a human does. He is all-knowing. He sees everything past and future.

God's creation was originally perfect, but humans, by disobeying him, brought imperfection into the world. Humans are evil and sinful, and must suffer in this world because of their sinfulness. God gives humans the opportunity to accept forgiveness for their sin, and all who do will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven, but while they are on earth, they must suffer for his sake. All humans who choose not to accept this forgiveness must go to hell and be tormented for eternity.

These attributes of God are related by the Bible, which Christians believe to be the perfect and true Word of God.

One verse which Christians are fond of quoting says that atheists are fools. I intend to show that the above concepts of God are completely incompatible and so reveal the impossibility of all of them being true. Who is the fool? The fool is the one who believes impossible things and calls them divine mysteries.


Perfection seeks even more perfection

What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.


Perfection begets imperfection

But, for the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God.

What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.


The Freewill Argument

The Christians' objection to this argument involves freewill. They say that a being must have freewill to be happy. The omnibenevolent God did not wish to create robots, so he gave humans freewill to enable them to experience love and happiness. But the humans used this freewill to choose evil, and introduced imperfection into God's originally perfect universe. God had no control over this decision, so the blame for our imperfect universe is on the humans, not God.

Here is why the argument is weak. First, if God is omnipotent, then the assumption that freewill is necessary for happiness is false. If God could make it a rule that only beings with freewill may experience happiness, then he could just as easily have made it a rule that only robots may experience happiness. The latter option is clearly superior, since perfect robots will never make decisions which could render them or their creator unhappy, whereas beings with freewill could. A perfect and omnipotent God who creates beings capable of ruining their own happiness is impossible.

Second, even if we were to allow the necessity of freewill for happiness, God could have created humans with freewill who did not have the ability to choose evil, but to choose between several good options.

Third, God supposedly has freewill, and yet he does not make imperfect decisions. If humans are miniature images of God, our decisions should likewise be perfect. Also, the occupants of heaven, who presumably must have freewill to be happy, will never use that freewill to make imperfect decisions. Why would the originally perfect humans do differently?

The point remains: the presence of imperfections in the universe disproves the supposed perfection of its creator.


All-good God knowingly creates future suffering

God is omniscient. When he created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born (in fact, the Bible says this very thing), and surely this all-compassionate deity would have foregone the creation of a universe destined to imperfection in which many of the humans were doomed to eternal suffering. A perfectly compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible.


Infinite punishment for finite sins

God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely more unjust than this punishment. The absurd injustice of this infinite punishment is even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of human imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible.


Belief more important than action

Consider all of the people who live in the remote regions of the world who have never even heard the "gospel" of Jesus Christ. Consider the people who have naturally adhered to the religion of their parents and nation as they had been taught to do since birth. If we are to believe the Christians, all of these people will perish in the eternal fire for not believing in Jesus. It does not matter how just, kind, and generous they have been with their fellow humans during their lifetime: if they do not accept the gospel of Jesus, they are condemned. No just God would ever judge a man by his beliefs rather than his actions.


Perfection's imperfect revelation

The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means of overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books which is the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man. No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean, since much of it is either self- contradictory, or obscured by enigmatic symbols. And yet the perfect God expects us imperfect humans to understand this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man.


Contradictory justice

One need look to no source other than the Bible to discover its imperfections, for it contradicts itself and thus exposes its own imperfection. It contradicts itself on matters of justice, for the same just God who assures his people that sons shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers turns around and destroys an entire household for the sin of one man (he had stolen some of Yahweh's war loot). It was this same Yahweh who afflicted thousands of his innocent people with plague and death to punish their evil king David for taking a census (?!). It was this same Yahweh who allowed the humans to slaughter his son because the perfect Yahweh had botched his own creation. Consider how many have been stoned, burned, slaughtered, raped, and enslaved because of Yahweh's skewed sense of justice. The blood of innocent babies is on the perfect, just, compassionate hands of Yahweh.


Contradictory history

The Bible contradicts itself on matters of history. A person who reads and compares the contents of the Bible will be confused about exactly who Esau's wives were, whether Timnah was a concubine or a son, and whether Jesus' earthly lineage is through Solomon or his brother Nathan. These are but a few of hundreds of documented historical contradictions. If the Bible cannot confirm itself in mundane earthly matters, how are we to trust it on moral and spiritual matters?


Unfulfilled prophecy

The Bible misinterprets its own prophecies. Read Isaiah 7 and compare it to Matthew 1 to find but one of many misinterpreted prophecies of which Christians are either passively or willfully ignorant. The fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible is cited as proof of its divine inspiration, and yet here is but one major example of a prophecy whose intended meaning has been and continues to be twisted to support subsequent absurd and false doctrines. There are no ends to which the credulous will not go to support their feeble beliefs in the face of compelling evidence against them.

The Bible is imperfect. It only takes one imperfection to destroy the supposed perfection of this alleged Word of God. Many have been found. A perfect God who reveals his perfect will in an imperfect book is impossible.


The Omniscient changes the future

A God who knows the future is powerless to change it. An omniscient God who is all-powerful and freewilled is impossible.


The Omniscient is surprised

A God who knows everything cannot have emotions. The Bible says that God experiences all of the emotions of humans, including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react.

We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.


The conclusion of the matter

I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non- existence, of the Christian God Yahweh. No reasonable and freethinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is so contradictory as that of Yahweh, the "perfect" creator of our imperfect universe. The existence of Yahweh is as impossible as the existence of cubic spheres or invisible pink unicorns.

Should any Christian who reads this persist in defending these impossibilities through means of "divine transcendence" and "faith," and should any Christian continue to call me an atheist fool, I will be forced to invoke the wrath of the Invisible Pink Unicorn:

"You are a fool for denying the existence of the IPU. You have rejected true faith and have relied on your feeble powers of human reason and thus arrogantly denied the existence of Her Divine Transcendence, and so are you condemned."

If such arguments are good enough for Yahweh, they are good enough for Her Invisible Pinkness.

As for me and my house, we shall choose reality.

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The Atheist Soapbox, Chad Docterman, docterm1@marshall.edu

You would have made a strong point. But the fact is we cannot question a God we cannot fully understand, remember ", His ways are not our ways" Whether you take it or leave it many have gone to hell before i got halfway thru this reply many will after I do and so will you and I if we do not repent of our sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ!

I will love to see Your face on Judgment Day. Priceless.

John 3:12-21 (King James Version)

12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

1 Corinthians 2 (King James Version)

1 Corinthians 2
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Some pple will definitely burn beyond recognition.  eg nairaland atheists who failed to repent in their last days

SeanT21:

I will love to see Your face on Judgment Day. Priceless.

Matthew 23:13 (King James Version)

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

SeanT21:

I will love to see Your face on Judgment Day. Priceless.

It will be a sorry sight. . .I just pray d op realises dat and have a rethink

MCLOVIN:

You would have made a strong point. But the fact is we cannot question a God we cannot fully understand, remember ", His ways are not our ways" Whether you take it or leave it many have gone to hell before i got halfway thru this reply many will after I do and so will you and I if we do not repent of our sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ!

God bless u 4 dat. . .repentance is d only remedy

The problem with Renunciation =>

"When atheists [/b]come to me, they cannot stop talking about [b]God." [Indian Guru]


LESSON: What we renounce  enthralls us. We are forever ATTACHED [/b]to whatever we [b]renounce . . .


@Huxley
Welcome, hope u are doing great?

You do not believe in God. But you spend a lot of time THINKING/TALKING/WRITING about God [whom you do not believe in] . . . LOL

Lol, usual responses, threats of hell and bible quotations. No intelligence whatsoever!!!

@ toba, so when I die and maybe get cremated, will my body still burn in hell ? Lmao

Martian:

Lol, usual responses, threats of hell and bible quotations. No intelligence whatsoever!!!

@ toba, so when I die and maybe get cremated, will my body still burn in hell ? Lmao

It is better to EXPERIENCE GOD than to write treatises about Him.

S/he that has an EXPERIENCE Of GOD is NEVER at the MERCY of s/he that has an ARGUMENT about God . . .

imhotep:

It is better to EXPERIENCE GOD than to write treatises about Him.

S/he that has an EXPERIENCE Of GOD is NEVER at the MERCY of s/he that has an ARGUMENT about God . . .

Yea

Atheists make more sense than any religionist can ever dream to. The guy doesn't believe in God and some of you are quoting him scripture. Rich. It would have amused me if it didn't reek of knee jerk syndromes.

I believe in God. But I think I have a right to ask the questions asked in that article. About 70percent of them are sensible and I've wondered about myself. God will not strike you dead for openly admitting that He befuddles you. Once you think it, you might as well say it.

Trouble is atheists are beginning to get more preachy and whiny. They put more effort into atheism than the sun into shining. A true honest to God atheist wouldn't care what believers believe in. Applying some of the articles logic, a true atheist almost doesn't exist.

vescucci:

Atheists make more sense than any religionist can ever dream to. The guy doesn't believe in God and some of you are quoting him scripture. Rich. It would have amused me if it didn't reek of knee jerk syndromes.

I believe in God. But I think I have a right to ask the questions asked in that article. About 70percent of them are sensible and I've wondered about myself. God will not strike you dead for openly admitting that He befuddles you. Once you think it, you might as well say it.

Trouble is atheists are beginning to get more preachy and whiny. They put more effort into atheism than the sun into shining. A true honest to God atheist wouldn't care what believers believe in. Applying some of the articles logic, a true atheist almost doesn't exist.

That statement,discredits all u've written.Wether u admit it or not,u r an atheist

Does it? Does it really? My belief is that EVERYBODY is within the bounderies of pure undiluted atheism and absolute faith. No one is an absolute believer or disbeliever in God. We are just on varying depths of the rabbit hole. Thanks for not telling me I'll burn in hell for eternity though

vescucci:

Does it? Does it really? My belief is that EVERYBODY is within the bounderies of pure undiluted atheism and absolute faith. No one is an absolute believer or disbeliever in God. We are just on varying depths of the rabbit hole. Thanks for not telling me I'll burn in hell for eternity though

I do not want 2 argue anything with u or be roped in2 ur so-called "intellectual thinking",I just wanted 2 highlight ur contradictory statement.where u said this

Atheists make more sense than any religionist can ever dream to.

and then in dat same statement,u said this

I believe in God.

Dats all I wanted 2 point out 2 u

Has anyone actually got anything to say about any of the points that Huxley raised? Please I'd love to hear that. How, or why, is he wrong?

@Phillip. Lol. I'm even less eager to argue provided there was something to argue about. As for my statements. They do not contradict for two reasons.

First, I may humble enough to admit that believing in God (which I do) makes no sense and this is assuming I agree that belief in God makes me a religionist which I don't.

Second, the very nature of the word belief connotes a position informed on very little evidence for it or sometimes, even evidence to the contrary. If it made sense to believe in God, we'd go around saying we KNOW God exists and not use the apologetic word, BELIEVE.

@Pastor. The stuff Huxley posted cannot truly be disproven. Anyone that attempts to will only employ endless histrionics and frankly B.S. I may only speak about the list by adding to the list. Some of the arguments are flawed and are based on wrong assumptions but they aren't many.

Pastor AIO:

Has anyone actually got anything to say about any of the points that Huxley raised? 

YES

"I WILL DESTROY [/b]THE [b]WISDOM [/b]OF THE [b]WISE, AND THE CLEVERNESS [/b]OF THE [b]CLEVER [/b]I WILL   [b] SET ASIDE." Isaiah29:14

wisdom can never be a bad thing. It con never be a black eye for anyone and God will never hold it against anyone that he was wise. Cleverness on the other hand, like war prowess, depends on whose side you're on

vescucci:

Atheists make more sense than any religionist can ever dream to.

Trouble is atheists are beginning to get more preachy and whiny. They put more effort into atheism than the sun into shining. A true honest to God atheist wouldn't care what believers believe in. Applying some of the articles logic, a true atheist almost doesn't exist.

The eye [b]sees [/b]only what the [b]mind [/b]is [b]prepared [/b]to comprehend. -- Henri L. Bergson

vescucci:

wisdom can never be a bad thing. It con never be a black eye for anyone and God will never hold it against anyone that he was wise. Cleverness on the other hand, like war prowess, depends on whose side you're on

Matthew 11:25 >>

. . . Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for hiding [/b]these things from [b]wise [/b]and [b]intelligent [/b]people and[b] revealing them to little children.

Context, mon ami. The bible was not originally English. I'd bet my sixth toe that 'wise' there meant full of guile i.e. Guilty. Little children mean innocent. You're definitely not a child, why then do you translate wise literally? Besides, do you suggest God withholds enlightenment from those with grey matter but reveals Himself to people with botched lobotomies?

vescucci:

Context, mon ami. The bible was not originally English. I'd bet my sixth toe that 'wise' there meant full of guile i.e. Guilty. Little children mean innocent. You're definitely not a child, why then do you translate wise literally? Besides, do you suggest God withholds enlightenment from those with grey matter but reveals Himself to people with botched lobotomies?

Wisdom and intelligence are wonderful and desirable qualities to possess.

But wise and intelligent people should be careful when approaching God. Their great temptation would be to reduce God to a CONCEPT or an ARGUMENT. . .

God is DARKNESS to human wisdom and intelligence. . . this is why the [brilliant] atheists will keep going on and on and on and on about the God whose existence they CANNOT DISPROVE. . .

OR YOU PROVE

I get your point anyway though I think wisdom and intelligence are not the same thing. Many times they are mutually exclusive. Peace bro. You're alright

good post my friend

L laugh tire I wan die. . . . . . The ontology of the Christian God has been COMPLETELY destroyed with very logical and rational points and analysis, yet the indoctrinated and deluded Christians are are busy quoting bible verses that do not make any sense to they themselves. . . . .Funny people. . . .

imhotep:

The problem with Renunciation =>

"When atheists [/b]come to me, they cannot stop talking about God." [Indian Guru]

LESSON: What we renounce  enthralls us. We are forever ATTACHED to whatever we renounce . . .


@Huxley
Welcome, hope u are doing great?

[b]You do not believe in God. But you spend a lot of time THINKING/TALKING/WRITING about God [whom you do not believe in] . . . LOL

Well that makes sense if you consider it this way
Religious folks (mostly Christians) can be compared to traumatized, abused housewives.
1. The women believe anything bad that happens to them is a result of her own missteps (God allowed the devil to punish them be because of their sins or God himself punished them).
2. They fear for their lives and the lives of their children (They dont want to go to hell, so they strive for 'perfection' and try to force their children to do the same), This one suggests a whole lot. First off, the fact that you want to force your child to 'believe'(mostly by threatening them with hell) won't make them make heaven since you have to TRULY love God to make it. Quick question for christians; If you're in heaven, and your acquaintance (maybe your life partner) is in hell, would you be happy? Now doesn't that automatically renders the promise of God to "wipe away all sorrow, tears and mourning from your eyes in heaven"?
3. The women usually believe that the abuser/husband omnipresent and omniscient (In the case of Xtians, this makes them develop an absolute phobia for anything, either right or wrong, that might be offensive to their God), Another question for christians If God is omniscient and knows "the end from the beginning", doesn't that mean he already knows who'll make heaven and who wouldn't??
A common trend among Nigerian christians for example is that whenever they hear some devastating news about Nigeria, their immediate response (after they b*t@# for an hour about how really messed up nigeria is) is "Only God can help us o", only God can help us? has he been asleep since our independence? was that God telling all those past (and present) politicians to embezzle every "green" in sight? was that God watching and smiling while Christians and Muslims died in jaw-dropping numbers over the years?

So in a sense, atheists are justified in "preaching" about the impossibility of the existence of God since they would only be trying to free the religious from their trauma and delusion -- to help them see the worth in themselves

timmy2409:

So in a sense, atheists are justified in "preaching" about the impossibility of the existence of God since they would only be trying to free the religious from their trauma and delusion -- to help them see the worth in themselves

Atheists vigorously preach about the non-existence of God. . . and some have become very fanatical about it. Denial of God does not lead to[b] inner peace[/b], rather it frequently leads great[b] inner turmoil.[/b] .  . The Lord is great and worthy to be praised . . .

---------------------------------------------
A NOTE FOR OUR FANATICAL ATHEISTS >>

No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow.

They know [/b]it’s going to rise tomorrow.

When people are [b]fanatically dedicated to political ideologies, religious faiths, atheistic preaching or any other kinds

of dogmas or goals, it’s always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.

^^^. . . . are in doubt or the people who are being preached to are hopelessly deluded. It was once public opinion that the earth was flat or that it was the centre of the universe/solar system. I'm not an atheist but that doesn't mean I won't concede the fact that their case is stronger. Religion brings a lotta woe to the world. I daresay it is the singular worst thing to ever happen to humanity.

vescucci:

^^^. . . . are in doubt or the people who are being preached to are hopelessly deluded. It was once public opinion that the earth was flat or that it was the centre of the universe/solar system. I'm not an atheist but that doesn't mean I won't concede the fact that their case is stronger. Religion brings a lotta woe to the world. I daresay it is the singular worst thing to ever happen to humanity.

Below is the statistics of the "Great Purge" orchestrated by Joseph Stalin in Atheistic, Communist Russia between 1936 and 1938:

* At least 1,710,000 people were arrested
* At least 1,440,000 people were sentenced
* At least 724,000 were executed. Among them:
o At least 436,000 people were sentenced to death by NKVD troikas as part of the Kulak operation
o At least 247,000 people were sentenced to death by NKVD Dvoikas'
o At least 41,000 people were sentenced to death by Military Courts
* Among other cases in October 1936-November 1938:
o At least 400,000 were sentenced to labor camps by Police Troikas as Socially Harmful Elements
o At least 200,000 were exiled or deported by Administrative procedures
o At least 2 million were sentenced by courts for common crimes; among them 800,000 were sentenced to Gulag camps.

SO MUCH FOR [b]GOOD/SOUND [/b]REASONING IN THE ATHEISTIC WORLD. . . .
--------------

Which is a lesser evil: to argue about the shape of the universe? Or to go on replicating the statistics above in today's world? Choose for yourself . . .

Normally the above wouldn't merit a response but I sense an earnestness in you that is not a bad one.

Let me grant you a head start and accept that the sole crime of these people is that they believe in God. Your statistics are not faceless as they ought to be for they appeal to sympathy. So 2million people died under Stalin. Do you suppose he was evil because he didn't believe in God? Over 3million people died in Vietnam. Cambodia and other places contributed an additional almost 2million if I remember. Hiroshima and Nagasaki if I remember meant a million people directly murdered. More evidence is on Hitler's being a 'Christian' than his being atheist. He killed a third of all the Jews in the world. Or is it two-thirds? Suicide bombings seem to happen everyday since as long as I can remember. The History of the Catholic Church must have escaped your notice. George Bush (both of the sumbitches), Saddam Hussein, Abacha, are not atheists.

Some of my points are stupid but I'm only following your analogy. If atheism made Stalin evil, religion made all the people I mentioned evil too.

I'm not against believing in God but I cannot escape the facts. I can't deny what's before me.