Ajibam:

that doesn't change the fact that they are confused, spiritually dead and a "fool"

Is this the christian love?

The good samaritan was not a christian
Does Bill Gates sound like a fool to you?

Logicboy03:



An agnostic is an atheist.....we battle with the labels......the African/pagan/spiritualists among us just use atheism to sound cool- they arent atheists since they believe in local gods.

As for the atheist churches- those are not churches....it would be ridiculous to have a muslim or pagan church......these are just atheists that want to meet like minded atheists....calling it a church is just a result of their organistaion being a a country with a christian background

people with like minds meet all the time- chess clubs, AA, etc

I don't buy that. Nothing compels them to use the word church. They do so willingly. People of like minds gather together all the time but they don't call it church.

The reason they purposefully call it a church is because they preach atheistic ideology. They even sing songs too. Why I wonder?

The whole thing is interesting.

NativeBoy:

I don't buy that. Nothing compels them to use the word church. They do so willingly. People of like minds gather together all the time but they don't call it church.

The reason they purposefully call it a church is because they preach atheistic ideology. They even sing songs too. Why I wonder?

The whole thing is interesting.

At best, the atheist church is a parody religion.

Logicboy03:



Is this the christian love?

The good samaritan was not a christian
Does Bill Gates sound like a fool to you?

Bill Gates isn't a fool and it is a great thing he and his wife are doing. But, salvation doesn't come by good works. Jesus is the door through which all go to the father.

Logicboy03:



Is this the christian love?

The good samaritan was not a christian
Does Bill Gates sound like a fool to you?

work without faith is just like a body without breathe

Logicboy03:



That should be a recent change. Still, the priests will never state anything positive or sensitive about disbelief in Mass.

Maybe you forget that I was a catholic and almost became a priest......

"Almost became a priest"?! Now I'm sure you're gonna end up like Paul.

Mr Troll: I say doubt everything. stick only with the evidence and facts. distrust hearsay...

But then while doubting everything how do you know how to tell what is evidence and what is fact? And how far exactly do you want us to distrust hearsay?

Logicboy03:



Many atheists here were christians before. Some of us regret the information passed to us from pastors when we were christians. We would have been better off not listening to some of their messages

But you think for some reason that theists would be better off listening to atheists, @bolded. How does that make sense?

Pastors are not free to preach just like that to masses of people. Pastors and priests are given certain kinds of respect that comes with responsibility.

So when a pastor preaches about abortion, creationism, religion with government etc and he gives only one side of it as the utmost truth, he is destroying people's minds because of that respect that he as an instrument of God cant be lying on the pulpit. People go to church to listen to the word of God.....


note that the issues that I put up are multifaceted. Pastors and imamas give only one dimension of these issues as "truth". The congregation then are discouraged to see the other side when they already have the divine truth.

This is proven by research- religious people are less likely to know things about other religions. Atheists generally rank higher in religious tests

Note the two statements I highlighted. You are declaring without mincing words that pastors and imams give only one side of the truth and deliberately blind their congregation from the whole truth. What is this side of the truth you mean? And what is the whole truth?

NativeBoy:

Bill Gates isn't a fool and it is a great thing he and his wife are doing. But, salvation doesn't come by good works. Jesus is the door through which all go to the father.

Think

Do u really believe that a man who does good all his life would die and go to hell(not dat it exist) because he wasn't a Christian?

Do u really believe a man like osama who killed, bombed and trained terrorist would go to heaven because he was a Christian for the last 3secs of his life

Ajibam:

work without faith is just like a body without breathe

So only Christians have breathe?

Why are some Africans so dumb? And you would claim to be intelligent and educated

macof:

So only Christians have breathe?

Why are some Africans so dumb? And you would claim to be intelligent and educated

Intelligent, educated?

He he he.

You owe those words an apology.

NativeBoy:

Bill Gates isn't a fool and it is a great thing he and his wife are doing. But, salvation doesn't come by good works. Jesus is the door through which all go to the father.

I guess this must explain why there is soooooooo much wickedness in our land.

All a Nigerian slowpoke needs to do is suffuse his mind and arm himself with the wildly ridiculous fables of stone age middle-easterners, and Viola!, he has a ticket to heaven, the fool's heaven.

With brain's like this, our land is in deep trouble.

macof:

Think

Do u really believe that a man who does good all his life would die and go to hell(not dat it exist) because he wasn't a Christian?

Do u really believe a man like osama who killed, bombed and trained terrorist would go to heaven because he was a Christian for the last 3secs of his life

Yes. If he was sincerely repentant, Osama himself would be saved.

macof:

Think

Do u really believe that a man who does good all his life would die and go to hell(not dat it exist) because he wasn't a Christian?

Do u really believe a man like osama who killed, bombed and trained terrorist would go to heaven because he was a Christian for the last 3secs of his life

The real question is: who's definition are we using in defining good? God or man's. In God's definition, no one is good for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

macof:

Think

Do u really believe that a man who does good all his life would die and go to hell(not dat it exist) because he wasn't a Christian?

Do u really believe a man like osama who killed, bombed and trained terrorist would go to heaven because he was a Christian for the last 3secs of his life

That's the beauty of grace.

NativeBoy:

The real question is: who's definition are we using in defining good? God or man's. In God's definition, no one is good for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Since human definition of good might be incorrect, why dont we go to the animal kingdom and borrow?
And also, why dont you submit yourself to Boko haram's definition of justice, since , as humans, we cannot , at this stage of our intellectual development, agree as to what constitutes good and what does not.

Ihedinobi:
But you think for some reason that theists would be better off listening to atheists, @bolded. How does that make sense?


Note the two statements I highlighted. You are declaring without mincing words that pastors and imams give only one side of the truth and deliberately blind their congregation from the whole truth. What is this side of the truth you mean? And what is the whole truth?

He is trying to say, before u believe something or someone that says others who are not part of u are evil and doomed, u should hear from the accused people first and compare the two sides

Many Christians are guilty of this.
How many of u know about Islam? Well I don't even care about Islam but it's still important to hear their story before u condemn them(I have, and I see no sense in it)

Many Christians don't know about the spirituality of their own ancestors.


I first got interested in Yoruba spirituality from newspaper, then I started checking the internet for wat I could find- I found it very interesting and wanted to know even more(just because it's my ancestral spirituality), I went to ancient Towns and villages to gather info, from interest and curiosity, I found out that christianity has been lying against paganism all this while, I found out how meek and morally pure pagans are(not the blood sucking people they talk about in church) but highly spiritually enlightened people who forgive all the wrongs done towards them by these foreign religions.
I found out that the Orisha/gods are not demons or mere idols but somethings important to our lives.
My revert(not conversion) to Yoruba paganism was because I found out for myself that lies make up christianity.
I found that paganism made more sense and was very logical(at least far more logical than Islam and Christianity which I have learned)

No one would preach for u to convert to paganism
No threats, No compulsion but all pagans ask is to learn wat they are about for urself before condemning.

May Orunmila guide us to truth

plaetton:

Since human definition of good might be incorrect, why dont we go to the animal kingdom and borrow?
And also, why dont you submit yourself to Boko haram's definition of justice, since , as humans, we cannot , at this stage of our intellectual development, agree as to what constitutes good and what does not.

Good can depend on culture can it not? But I do believe most everyone will agree that was bill gates and his wife are doing is good. But what about his sins? Unless you would like to argue that bill gates is perfect. Since no one is perfect they cannot dwell with God. All must go through Jesus for by his stripes, we are healed.

NativeBoy:

Yes. If he was sincerely repentant, Osama himself would be saved.

You see where christianity fails

If u like ask God to forgive you he won't, give ur life to Jesus and become a priest or become an hermit, the law of karma would surely catch up wit such people.
For every negative energy that comes from a man, Such level of negativity shall befall him. You pay according to the measures of ur sin.

If u like kill and steal then ask Jesus to wash way sin, you would surely suffer upon the worthless giving of ur life to Christ

Even death is not the end for the sins of osama, his soul shall reincarnate and face terror on earth, Esu doesn't let such people go free

NativeBoy:

The real question is: who's definition are we using in defining good? God or man's. In God's definition, no one is good for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

God has no say in human lives, it's our conscience that guides us, Ur supposed God's definition is still man's definition

All have sinned? No I don't agree

Some people don't go against their conscience or the laws of the society they live in

NativeBoy:

Bill Gates isn't a fool and it is a great thing he and his wife are doing. But, salvation doesn't come by good works. Jesus is the door through which all go to the father.

Then what was the point of the good samaritan? The good samaritan goes to hell because he had works but not faith? Christianity is a joke

Ihedinobi:
But you think for some reason that theists would be better off listening to atheists, @bolded. How does that make sense?

I am so used to your method of arguing with straw men. I never made the argument that you are accusing me of (that theists would be bettr off listening to atheists). Surely, if you had properly read my comments, I clearly said that both sides should be listened to for a balance.


And as for you asking how what I said makes sense......willful ignorance again!!

Ihedinobi:
Note the two statements I highlighted. You are declaring without mincing words that pastors and imams give only one side of the truth and deliberately blind their congregation from the whole truth. What is this side of the truth you mean? And what is the whole truth?

Take abortion for instance....a multifaceted issue surrounding health, politics and religion. A priest is is no way justified or qualified to give lectures on abortion based on the bible only (just one dimension). The same bible that doesnt even directly mention the word "abortion". Healthcare professsionals and public statisticians are also very important for the abortion issue.

Logicboy03:


Then what was the point of the good samaritan? The good samaritan goes to hell because he had works but not faith? Christianity is a joke

If a person doesn't believe in God, then they probably don't believe in heaven right? If they rejected God in this life, why would they want to live with him in heaven?

NativeBoy:

If a person doesn't believe in God, then they probably don't believe in heaven right? If they rejected God in this life, why would they want to live with him in heaven?

Eternal sleep? A neutrall option? The most realistic option?

macof:

God has no say in human lives, it's our conscience that guides us, Ur supposed God's definition is still man's definition

All have sinned? No I don't agree

Some people don't go against their conscience or the laws of the society they live in

So good is determined by what I think or what society thinks? Is that what you're arguing? Then was Nazi germany good?

Logicboy03:

At best, the atheist church is a parody religion.

I disagree. I would argue that there is a deeply entrenched yearning to have a religious experience but without God. It's almost like they want to feel bold because they are rebelling against God, but they want the reassurance to affirm their action.

The whole thing is really interesting.

NativeBoy:

I disagree. I would argue that there is a deeply entrenched yearning to have a religious experience but without God. It's almost like they want to feel bold because they are rebelling against God, but they want the reassurance to affirm their action.

The whole thing is really interesting.

Would have taken you seriously if you were an atheist yourself....

Logicboy03:

Eternal sleep? A neutrall option? The most realistic option?

You suggest a third option? You stated earlier that there was no third option in matters of faith. You said that agnostics were atheists. So it is the same. It is either one accepts Jesus as savior or one does not.

NativeBoy:

You suggest a third option? You stated earlier that there was no third option in matters of faith. You said that agnostics were atheists. So it is the same. It is either one accepts Jesus as savior or one does not.

Your argument doesnt follow.

I am not talking about faith. From a scientific point of view, there is no consciousness without the brain.....it is more likely that oner goes into an eternal sleep when dead

Logicboy03:

Eternal sleep? A neutrall option? The most realistic option?

You suggest a third option? You stated earlier that there was no third option in matters of faith. You said that agnostics were atheists. So it is the same. It is either one comes to accept Jesus as savior or one does not.

Logicboy03:


Would have taken you seriously if you were an atheist yourself....

It's simply a theory. I'll have to ask an atheist why they would attend church and give offerings and sing songs.