We're now in a world where saying you're a virgin attracts mockery&most people say it's lack of opportunity.No girl would want to marry an 'inexperienced' guy and most guys won't marry a girl who doesn't know how to do it.
Sin is bad,but is it ok to involve in fornication just to get the neccessary experience needed or just wait till marriage before doing it?Everyone I've spoken with said YES,so I wanna throw it out to you guys.
PS:Mods today is my birthday,making it a frontpage material would really make my day&fellow nairalanders,a like to wish me a happy birthday would be nice.I love Y'all.

^^^^there u r! FP!


happy bufday dude!!!!!


Hope u had a swell one btw??

LadyH: happy bufday dude!!!!!

Thanks Sweetz!

nutty_hnic: Well but the good lord has spoken against it. God is always right.

See it this way, if your daughter is the one who gets fu..cked passionately by people that she ain't legally married to, wouldn't it be sweet?

*straight face*
It always sounds bad to d parents,buh they can't deny d fact d chick is bleepin sm1.#FACT

Define sin, I beg of you.


#not from the biblical point of view please

Eminado01: Define sin, I beg of you.


#not from the biblical point of view please

Anything contrary to laid down rules or guidelines....I think

nutty_hnic: Well but the good lord has spoken against it. God is always right.

See it this way, if your daughter is the one who gets fu..cked passionately by people that she ain't legally married to, wouldn't it be sweet?

wouldnt it be sweet if you are the one fuc.king other people daughters you aint legally married to passionately..don't you think your parents would be proud?!


Guy! You just posted a very d.dumb analogy..
Isn't it spose to be two ways? Na only girl get crime for fornication?

C.Ovo:

Anything contrary to laid down rules or guidelines....I think

No one laid any rule down!
Feel free to do whatever you please with your babe, with mutual consent of course, no bible have any right over your intimacy

#society does it, so should you

Eminado01:
No one laid any rule down!
Go out to the street, if you see a lady with big behind, turn back and admire the yansh and walk away, no one will imprison you
Feel free to do whatever you please with your babe, with mutual consent of course, no bible have any right over your intimacy

#society does it, so should you

Are you a christian?

Fornication isnt a necessary sin. It can be done away with.

nutty_hnic:


No fu...cking idi...ot. My parents will not be proud.

You come across as a one who humps on top anything that has a dick.

i got all this insults coz I corrected your analogy?!

Chai! Your parents must have trained you well..

@bolded,,Hmm yeah!! Your father is next

Btw,its either "as one" or "as some one"... not as a one!!

quivah:
i got all this insults coz I corrected your analogy?!

Chai! Your parents must have trained you well..

@bolded,,Hmm yeah!! Your father is next

lmao

Nahum777: Use the bible to define the word fornication. You think fornication is premarital sex? Smh.

If it's not pre-marital sex,then what is fornication?

This is the problem with all we want definition for everything, and anything that dont fit or fit into the concept our little mind created is taken or discarded as the case maybe.

Do not be deceived God cant be mocked, for whatever a man sows that he shall reap. If you sow to the flesh, u shall of the flesh reap corruption, and if you sow to the spirit u shall of the spirit reap life everlasting!

The fact that society doesn't make it right. I perceive you are a Christian, but be careful not to justify what most people tagged as normal. These are evil days when most people have sold there conscience to the devil for fleshy gratification. Read Galatians 5:19-26 and get back to me. As a young man, your concern should centered on pleasing God rather than finding out about sexual experiences. There is much honour being a virgin than losing it. Those who don't have it will wave it aside but deep within, they crave for it. Sex is for married folks and not something to experiment with.

The fact that society does it, doesn't make it right. I perceived that you are a Christian, but be careful not to justify what most people tagged as normal. These are evil days when most people have sold there conscience to the devil for fleshy gratification. Read Galatians 5:19-26 and get back to me. As a young man, your concern should centered on pleasing God rather than finding out about sexual experiences. There is much honour being a virgin than losing one. Those who had lost it, will give little meaning to it. Sex is for married folks and not to be experiment with.

Pastor Olu T: This is the problem with all we want definition for everything, and anything that dont fit or fit into the concept our little mind created is taken or discarded as the case maybe.

Do not be deceived God cant be mocked, for whatever a man sows that he shall reap. If you sow to the flesh, u shall of the flesh reap corruption, and if you sow to the spirit u shall of the spirit reap life everlasting!

common go and sit down, u put emotions on everything, how does that verse say premarital sex is a sin? tell me where the bible says premarital sex is a sin?. define fornication with the bible and not your own opinion.

exodus 22 vs 17 16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins..

fornication isn't premarital sex. fornication is when you dont marry who you sleep with.

Nahum777: common go and sit down, u put emotions on everything, how does that verse say premarital sex is a sin? tell me where the bible says premarital sex is a sin?. define fornication with the bible and not your own opinion.

exodus 22 vs 17 16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins..

fornication isn't premarital sex. fornication is when you dont marry who you sleep with.

You read from the book of Exodus,then christianity wasn't in existence.If you're holding on to that bible passage then you're also saying having more than 1 wife isn't a sin. Read Gal 5:19 before you come and say rubbish

C.Ovo:


You read from the book of Exodus,then christianity wasn't in existence.If you're holding on to that bible passage then you're also saying having more than 1 wife isn't a sin. Read Gal 5:19 before you come and say rubbish

So you mean the book of Exodus doesnt count?, you follow only one part of the bible huh? stop fooling around bro The God that i serve doesnt change, or you havnt heard? So the old testament is a waste? Why did God bother writing it?

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (Malachi 3:6).
where in the bible does it say marrying two wives is a sin? And i repeat, marrying two wives isnt a sin. Nowhere did the bible call it a sin.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness," (Galatians 5:19). and how does this verse support your claim? The thing is that you dont understand the bible, you follow the world, you dont read the bible on your own. Where did the bible define fornication as premarital sex? That is where you are getting it wrong, you dont know the meaning of fornication in the bible.

@ Pastor Olu T,

Fornication has a wide range of meanings but never does it mean pre-marital se.x; it is religion that taught such thing. You can always study to show yourself approved unto God, proof all things and hold unto that which is good, using bible concordance. Using a bible concordance for word meanings in context, you will come to a whole new meaning to the religious interpretations.

quivah:
i got all this insults coz I corrected your analogy?!

Chai! Your parents must have trained you well..

@bolded,,Hmm yeah!! Your father is next

Lol

Nahum777: So you mean the book of Exodus doesnt count?, you follow only one part of the bible huh? stop fooling around bro The God that i serve doesnt change, or you havnt heard? So the old testament is a waste? Why did God bother writing it?

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (Malachi 3:6).
where in the bible does it say marrying two wives is a sin? And i repeat, marrying two wives isnt a sin. Nowhere did the bible call it a sin.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness," (Galatians 5:19). and how does this verse support your claim? The thing is that you dont understand the bible, you follow the world, you dont read the bible on your own. Where did the bible define fornication as premarital sex? That is where you are getting it wrong, you dont know the meaning of fornication in the bible.

Hm, an obadiah acolyte... Yeah, you are justifying carnal lusts and lack of self control by turning the scripture upside down

Goshen360: @ Pastor Olu T,

Fornication has a wide range of meanings but never does it mean pre-marital se.x; it is religion that taught such thing. You can always study to show yourself approved unto God, proof all things and hold unto that which is good, using bible concordance. Using a bible concordance for word meanings in context, you will come to a whole new meaning to the religious interpretations.

^^^

Goshen360: @ Pastor Olu T,

Fornication has a wide range of meanings but never does it mean pre-marital se.x; it is religion that taught such thing. You can always study to show yourself approved unto God, proof all things and hold unto that which is good, using bible concordance. Using a bible concordance for word meanings in context, you will come to a whole new meaning to the religious interpretations.

I dont get what u are trying to say, so I admonish u to explain further. Did u read my post? I did nt even say anything about fornication bt people trying to justify by their actions with their perceived definition of what is right or wrong.

Now coming to the issue of fornication this is my stance, it is not just pre-marital se.x (bt obviously included) and that also is a sin. So what's the point brother Goshen?

C.Ovo:

We're now in a world where saying you're a virgin attracts mockery&most people say it's lack of opportunity.No girl would want to marry an 'inexperienced' guy and most guys won't marry a girl who doesn't know how to do it.
Sin is bad,but is it ok to involve in fornication just to get the neccessary experience needed or just wait till marriage before doing it?Everyone I've spoken with said YES,so I wanna throw it out to you guys.

The question you should ask yourself is what does God say about it? You will know this through His word and the Spirit in you that will tell you if you are a Christian.
The answer is obvious however. It is your CHOICE to go in line with it or against it.

Goshen360: @ Pastor Olu T,

Fornication has a wide range of meanings but never does it mean pre-marital se.x; it is religion that taught such thing. You can always study to show yourself approved unto God, proof all things and hold unto that which is good, using bible concordance. Using a bible concordance for word meanings in context, you will come to a whole new meaning to the religious interpretations.

Well said! We should not forget that translations can tend to cause a loss of perspective if one is not careful.

Here's my 2 cents, say we pardon the length.

First, a caveat: there is a pattern in the Bible that tells us about what God really dislikes about sin, and this can help Christians understand it better rather than imagine that God is just trying to kill their fun. These patterns can help understand what the real issue is, here.

The patterns I refer to indicate that sin is generally anything which has the potential to damage your relationship with God. Your relationship with God can be damaged by such things as
(A) a poisoning of your faith, tending to lose your trust in God
(B) a distraction of your focus on spiritual matters, or
(C) being unjust by harming others (that are also loved by God, are they not?)

Now to the matter. He hit the nail on the head, yet I don't fully agree with Goshen360 that "never does it mean pre-marital se.x".
If harlo'try / prosti'tution / ince'st or another form of illegitimate sex is involved in that instance of pre-marital sex, then it is still a fornication. Harlo'try / prosti'tution is a form of illicit i.e. illegitimate sex.

In papyri and other ancient manuscripts, fornication is synonymously used with "disease" or "any active excess of evil", while in the Bible there are 3 definitions of fornication: 2 Hebrew and one Greek.

Biblical definitions of fornication using Strong's Greek and Hebrew Concordances

- (Hebrew 2181) zanah:
to commit adultery (usually on the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment);
fig. To commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of [Yahweh])…
The Complete Word Study of the Old Testament gives more context to the Hebrew zanah in its Lexical Aid as follows: "To fornicate, commit fornication, be a har'lot, play the har'lot, commit adulte'ry; to apostatize, have inte'rcourse with false g-ds or foreigners; to seduce. The main idea is to commit illicit se'xual intercourse, particularly with women. However, this strong image is used in a figurative sense to describe illegal contact between Israel and other nations and their g-ds…"
Summarily, zanah means playing a harlot, illicit sex, marital illicit sex, and idolatry (worship of a person/thing besides God).

- (Hebrew 8457) taznuth:
a type of idolatry
Summarily, forni'cation translated as taznuth is used only once to mean idolatry (Ezekiel 16:29) and there is no other context to compare it to.

- (Greek 4202) por'neia:
from 4203; harl'otry (incl. Adulte'ry and ince'st);
fig. Idolatry: - forni'cation.
Summarily, por'neia often refers to various forms of illicit sex, physically and metaphorically. In 1 Cor 5, Paul asked the Christians to disallow a sin in their assembly. Someone was sleeping with his father's wife, and this was called a fornication. Modern Christians would have called this an adult'ery or inces't but fornication was good enough for Paul to convey his meaning i.e. illicit sex.

In a number of other Biblical instances, fornication refers to engaging with Baal temple prosti'tutes (which is a combination of both physical harlo'try and spiritual harlo'try). In some ancient pagan practices, sex was an integral part of worship activities.

Let's bring it all together.

Fornication broadly has a physical connotation and a metaphorical connotation:
- Physically it refers to various forms of illicit / illegitimate sex. Pedophi'lia, bestia'lity, harlo'try, ra'pe and other Biblical sexu'al restrictions are all included in this definition. As the papyri sources also said, a disease or any active excess of evil.
Generally, this kind of sex is harmful because it is the type of sex that takes advantage and avoids any kind of commitment. It is a sin because of patterns B and C above.
- Metaphorically, fornication refers to harlotry of the soul. This is an illicit connection / coupling with an idol. It's interesting to note that this is the more prevalent fornication that Christians should be worried about, and not the above. That "must see" TV show, that sport that makes you lose yourself, that breathless chase after the newest gadgets in the market, even your child or your job can be an idol that you are forn'icating after, illictly i.e. at the expense of your spiritual development. This one is a sin because of patterns A and B above.

Now, this final point is most certainly controversial. The real question is, when do people get married in God's sight? Is it when they swear in court, or when the bride and groom wear their traditional gear to receive family blessings, or when the pastor "joins them together"? No, those are for the society and for family and for the church, respectively. God knows, either before or AFTER these events, when he chooses to honor their union. People can get married in court, a traditional event or even by a pastor and in God's sight they are not even joined together. Meanwhile others can be unmarried and God accepts them as one. In this case then, having sex with someone that you genuinely love and have positive intentions for (but for some valid reasons are not yet court/traditional/church married to) will not be a sin.

Caveats to the above:
- Personally I do not subscribe to people engaging in no-strings-attached random sex because I believe the act is too intimate to be taken in a noncommital fashion (even your body does not take it with levity e.g. emotional imbalances due to the release of oxytocin in women after sex). Eventually at least one person always gets hurt physically or emotionally, even if it does not manifest for years.
- I also do not subscribe to the type of sex in many modern dating / relationship scenes because it is often as well noncommital. A rule of thumb here is for them to ask themselves, if, say the lady gets pregnant would the man be willing to set aside everything in his life and attend to her, the way he would have done if she was his wife? Or say if either of them had a life-threatening condition or was involved in a terrible accident, would the other do ALL they possibly can to help, the way one would do for a spouse? If the answer is no, then what they have is not yet pure and the sex is noncommital and in my opinion should be considered a sin.
- Also, we have people who set their eyes on someone and desire to have sex with him / her then they scheme their way into the person's heart / life until they end up having that anticipated sex. This will also most likely be noncommital because the person had an aim and now it has been fulfilled, the only way forward is to get more or find another victim. This is definitely illicit then.

I don't know of any verse in the Bible that condemns non-illicit pre-marital sex (the type that does not take advantage and does not avoid commitments), but I feel pastors just discredit pre-marital sex entirely because many people do not have the patience, maturity or understanding to process the various ramifications involved in the act of sex. It's thus easier for Christians just wait until they are in the defined confines of a marriage, to do their thing. As 1 Corinthians 7:9 put it, "...it is better to marry than to burn".

I finally re-iterate, sin is generally anything which has the potential to damage your relationship with God, and your relationship with God can be damaged by such things as
(A) a poisoning of your faith, tending to lose your trust in God
(B) a distraction of your focus on spiritual matters, or
(C) being unjust by harming others (that are also loved by God, are they not?)

Lordlexyy: The fact that society does it, doesn't make it right. I perceived that you are a Christian, but be careful not to justify what most people tagged as normal. These are evil days when most people have sold there conscience to the devil for fleshy gratification. Read Galatians 5:19-26 and get back to me. As a young man, your concern should centered on pleasing God rather than finding out about sexual experiences. There is much honour being a virgin than losing one. Those who had lost it, will give little meaning to it. Sex is for married folks and not to be experiment with.

Thank you. No matter how anyone tries to justify it, the bible is clear. God will not force anyone to obey Him that is why we all have a choice.

Leviticus 21:14
A widow, or a divorced woman, or a woman who has been defiled, or a prostitute, these he shall not marry. But he shall take as his wife a virgin of his own people,
Applicable to both men and women though but any woman (man) falls either into:

Widow/widower - Spouse is dead
Divorcee - Been put away
Defiled or raped - forceful
Prostitute - consenting due to lust for money or pleasure or any gain
Wife/Husband - Noone can fault this
Virgin - Kept


I Corinthians 7:8-9
8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am.
9 But if they cannot exercise SELF-CONTROL, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion

1 Corinthians 7:36
If anyone thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry—it is no sin.

Self-Control is a fruit of the spirit. Even bethrothals (people set to marry) are told to marry so they do not give in to their passions before time. What more proof is required that the marriage bed should not be defiled for God will judge those who go against His will.
What is the key thing in a wedding...the GIVING AWAY, LEAVING to CLEAVE.

Ishilove:
Hm, an obadiah acolyte... Yeah, you are justifying carnal lusts and lack of self control by turning the scripture upside down

Actually he is right. The Bible does not define premarital sex as fornication. And premarital sex does not always include carnal lusts, neither does it always mean a lack of self-control.

"Wherever there is liberty, there is also opportunity for abuse." - InesQor

Thin, fine lines. That's usually the problem in religious beliefs.

Then it is easier to just ban / outlaw things than to get people to understand the nuances.