1) Laws against abortion do not stop abortion- they only make abortions unsafe
Death from unsafe abortions is actually higher in countries that ban abortion

"Banning abortion does not reduce the numbers of women who attempt it, say the authors of the report. The abortion rate is higher in regions where it is illegal and therefore usually unsafe"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/19/unsafe-abortions-rising-world-africa

The issue here is that unplanned and unwanted pregnancies will happen. Banning abortion does not solve the problem. It is just reducing one solution for the women.



2) Preaching Abstinence does not work
Many christians and muslims like to preach about abstinence. They want people not to have s.ex before marriage. However, that is a lie- people will have sex before marriage even if they are believers. In fact, the bible belt states in the USA has more teen pregnancies than other states! A study actually found a relationship between teen pregnancy and religion!
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/04/teen-birthrates-are-way-down-still-high-these-states/1735/

Furthemore, research has found out that contraceptives and a general se.x education go a long way in reducing teen pregnancies.
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/15/abstinence_isnt_working/

Here in Nigeria, we preach abstinence while we know that older men are having their way with very young girls- even as low as secondary school girls. We preach abstinence while frowning on the use of condoms and contraceptives. Very sad.



3) Contraceptives and se.x education work better than abstinence only classes in reducing pregnancies/abortion
While this point has been hinted at in number 2, it is important just to reinforce it.

It is better for the youths to know the various issues surrounding se.x if they fall into temptation. Telling them not to have s.ex is not enough. They should be given advice on how to take precaution and actions if the find themselves in certain intimate situations.




4) Abortion is a women's rights issue and many developed countries have recognized this
Yes, a woman has the right over her body. What really gives a man the right to tell a woman what to do or what not to do with a fertilized egg in her body? Of course, there are caveats to abortion, just like every other right. No one is asking for women just to abort babies whenever they feel like instead, the pro-abortion women's rights movement is making an ethical argument for a rational discussion on abortion. Pregnancy affects women in various ways and they should at least have some say in a situation that would definitely change their lives
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/mother/for_1.shtml



5) Pro-abortion or pro-choice campaigners realise that abortion is not the only solution for unwanted pregnancies

a) Before the pregnancy/precautions
-youths should be educated on se.x, contraception and pregnancy
-abstinence should be preached but with the se.x education
-youths should have some access to contraception, especially condoms

b) After an unwanted pregnancy (other solutions)
*first step is to meet a health counselor for proper advice
-giving the child to the parents of the mother/father to raise
-giving the child to an orphanage or foster care instituion
-giving the child to willing relatives
-keeping the child with an adjustment in lifestyle of the mother (after an assessment of mental, physical and financial stability)


If all the options in (b) are not viable, then abortion is the way forward

Food for thought

Patdedon: Food for thought

of course

Is abortion bad?

Who says we frown on using contraceptives and condoms in nigeria?

And should we encourage abortions and the killing of hundreds of millions of innocent babies or should we discourage it so women will be less prone to do it?

Women should not engage in pre-marital sex, but if they do and get pregnant, they should not even think of an abortion.

Abortion is a woman's right because the child cannot yet speak for itself abi? Do we value human life?

This is terrible, human's have given themselves rights to kill babies in the safest place on earth; the womb. Humans have given themselves rights to do as they like with their passions and desires, from abortion to homosexuality to sex before marriage to walking around completely naked. Me feeling tempted to do something does not justify the act itself.

ismokeweed: Is abortion bad?

yes.

THOU SHALL NOT KILL

Joshthefirst: yes.

THOU SHALL NOT KILL

I have done 3. my sperm is like messi and I like nyashing wit raw abunna. wat will I do?

ismokeweed:
I have done 3. my sperm is like messi and I like nyashing wit raw abunna. wat will I do?

go and kill no more.

Don't be a slave to your lust.
God can help you. He saves you know.

Joshthefirst: go and kill no more.

Don't be a slave to your lust.
God can help you. He saves you know.

OK. Do you mean u don't nyash or u pour the akamu outside? also try and help me
www.nairaland.com/1570524/please-need

I thought ismokeweed was a lady?

Joshthefirst: Who says we frown on using contraceptives and condoms in nigeria?

And should we encourage abortions and the killing of hundreds of millions of innocent babies or should we discourage it so women will be less prone to do it?

Women should not engage in pre-marital sex, but if they do and get pregnant, they should not even think of an abortion.

Abortion is a woman's right because the child cannot yet speak for itself abi? Do we value human life?

This is terrible, human's have given themselves rights to kill babies in the safest place on earth; the womb. Humans have given themselves rights to do as they like with their passions and desires, from abortion to homosexuality to sex before marriage to walking around completely naked. Me feeling tempted to do something does not justify the act itself.

as usual, you ignore the salient points raised and just la la all over the place.

Mr Troll: I thought ismokeweed was a lady?



as usual, you ignore the salient points raised and just la la all over the place.

sorry.

I dont know why I hate condom......well am save because I am faithful to her. Say No To CONDOM. It gives her vargina pains and likely you wont fill the man you are.

FOLYKAZE: I dont know why I hate condom......well am save because I am faithful to her. Say No To CONDOM. It gives her vargina pains and likely you wont fill the man you are.

Your manhood is too much for a condom? lol. Horseman

Joshthefirst: Who says we frown on using contraceptives and condoms in nigeria?

Apparently, you havent been informed of catholic teachings in Nigeria
Also, you haven't bought condom from the average chemist/.supermarket in Nigeria (and seen the disparaging looks given to the condom buyer)
Also, you havent listened in on the teachings of some churches in Nigeria

Joshthefirst:
And should we encourage abortions and the killing of hundreds of millions of innocent babies or should we discourage it so women will be less prone to do it?

Typical. You just repeat your fundamentalist christian talking points without addressing the facts. There are solutions other than abortion. Abortion is a solution when a mother can not have the child due to mental, physical or other social constraints. No one is just saying that we should kill babies. Most abortions are done in the first month when the feotus looks nothing like a human.

Joshthefirst:
Women should not engage in pre-marital sex, but if they do and get pregnant, they should not even think of an abortion.

They shouldnt consider abortion because of the opinion of a man like you that would never get pregnant? lol

Joshthefirst:
Abortion is a woman's right because the child cannot yet speak for itself abi? Do we value human life?

What kind of tortured logic is this? Abortion is a woman's right because it is her body.......and not because of your silly idea that the child cant speak for itself

Joshthefirst:
This is terrible, human's have given themselves rights to kill babies in the safest place on earth; the womb. Humans have given themselves rights to do as they like with their passions and desires, from abortion to homosexuality to sex before marriage to walking around completely naked. Me feeling tempted to do something does not justify the act itself.

Shut up. The silliness in this post is too much. I dont even know where to start

Logicboy03:
1) Laws against abortion do not stop abortion- they only make abortions unsafe
Death from unsafe abortions is actually higher in countries that ban abortion

The issue here is that unplanned and unwanted pregnancies will happen. Banning abortion does not solve the problem. It is just reducing one solution for the women.

I’ve given my view on this in another thread. You agreed with some of what I said, but chided me for not going far enough.

Logicboy03:
2) Preaching Abstinence does not work

I agree preaching abstinence ALONE does not work.

Logicboy03:
Many christians and muslims like to preach about abstinence. They want people not to have s.ex before marriage. However, that is a lie- people will have sex before marriage even if they are believers. In fact, the bible belt states in the USA has more teen pregnancies than other states! A study actually found a relationship between teen pregnancy and religion!
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/04/teen-birthrates-are-way-down-still-high-these-states/1735/

The bolded is true. I live in a city in Texas that has been ranked as having the highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation, not just the state. I will look, but I’m sure there is also a study that shows a relationship between waiting for marriage and religion also. I checked the study you speak of. What it really shows is a direct correlation between lack of sex education, and teen pregnancy, not necessarily religion. I do not believe abstinence should be the only component in sex education. I do however think it should be taught as the ONLY 100% preventative for unwanted pregnancy, and STDs. When I say sex education, I mean ALL sex education should be taught. My city also has the highest rate of herpes, syphilis, hepatitis B, gonorrhea, and HPV transmitted through mouth contact. There are actually some kids who think that fil.latio is not sex, and that it is safe. (It ain’t called MouthAction for nothin’.) The school district here advocates abstinence only. Smh

Logicboy03:
Furthemore, research has found out that contraceptives and a general se.x education go a long way in reducing teen pregnancies.
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/15/abstinence_isnt_working/

Here in Nigeria, we preach abstinence while we know that older men are having their way with very young girls- even as low as secondary school girls. We preach abstinence while frowning on the use of condoms and contraceptives. Very sad.

As I said…ALL sex ed. topics should be taught. I strongly feel these topics should also be taught in the home. Sex should be a subject our kids feel comfortable asking us about. Would you rather they ask their friends? I think ignorance, embarrassment and fear of talking about sex is a culprit in this battle too. It is also the reason so many woman fear, or are disgusted by sex. They have not been taught, and properly prepared in the home. (but that is a topic for another thread)

Logicboy03:

3) Contraceptives and sex education work better than abstinence only classes in reducing pregnancies/abortion
While this point has been hinted at in number 2, it is important just to reinforce it.

It is better for the youths to know the various issues surrounding sex if they fall into temptation. Telling them not to have sex is not enough. They should be given advice on how to take precaution and actions if the find themselves in certain intimate situations.

Agree 100%
[quote author=Logicboy03]
4) Abortion is a women's rights issue and many developed countries have recognized this.
Yes, a woman has the right over her body. What really gives a man the right to tell a woman what to do or what not to do with a fertilized egg in her body? Of course, there are caveats to abortion, just like every other right. No one is asking for women just to abort babies whenever they feel like instead, the pro-abortion women's rights movement is making an ethical argument for a rational discussion on abortion. Pregnancy affects women in various ways and they should at least have some say in a situation that would definitely change their lives
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/mother/for_1.shtml

This issue needs its own thread. Too much to say on this matter.

Logicboy03:

5) Pro-abortion or pro-choice campaigners realise that abortion is not the only solution for unwanted pregnancies.

a) Before the pregnancy/precautions
-youths should be educated on se.x, contraception and pregnancy
-abstinence should be preached but with the se.x education
-youths should have some access to contraception, especially condoms

b) After an unwanted pregnancy (other solutions)
*first step is to meet a health counselor for proper advice
-giving the child to the parents of the mother/father to raise
-giving the child to an orphanage or foster care institution
-giving the child to willing relatives
-keeping the child with an adjustment in lifestyle of the mother (after an assessment of mental, physical and financial stability)


If all the options in (b) are not viable, then abortion is the way forward

Unfortunately, in America, abortion clinics had to be legislated into doing the above steps before the final option of abortion. Before legislation demanded they give other options, many clinics throughout the US did not promote anything but abortion.

I’m not sure if you intended the bolded to include adoption. Orphanages and foster care do not guarantee this. Going through an agency that promotes and facilitates adoption is a viable option too. Most even provide prenatal care. I’m not sure you have this option in Nigeria. You tell me.

texanomaly:

I’ve given my view on this in another thread. You agreed with some of what I said, but chided me for not going far enough.



I agree preaching abstinence ALONE does not work.



The bolded is true. I live in a city in Texas that has been ranked as having the highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation, not just the state. I will look, but I’m sure there is also a study that shows a relationship between waiting for marriage and religion also. I checked the study you speak of. What it really shows is a direct correlation between lack of s.ex education, and teen pregnancy, not necessarily religion. I do not believe abstinence should be the only component in s.ex education. I do however think it should be taught as the ONLY 100% preventative for unwanted pregnancy, and STDs. When I say s.ex education, I mean ALL s.ex education. My city also has the highest rate of herpes, syphilis, hepatitis B, gonorrhea, and HPV transmitted through mouth contact. There are actually some kids who think that fil.latio is not sex, and that it is safe. (It ain’t called oral s.ex for nothin’.) The school district here advocates abstinence only. Smh



As I said…ALL s.ex ed. topics should be taught. I strongly feel these topics should also be taught in the home. S.ex should be a subject our kids feel comfortable asking us about. Would you rather they ask their friends? I think ignorance, embarrassment and fear of talking about s.ex is a culprit in this battle too. It IS also the reason so many woman fear, or are disgusted by s.ex. They have not been taught, and properly prepared in the home. (but that is a topic for another thread)

Well said, Texanomaly! I cant believe that for once I agree with you 100% on what you have said....no question at all!


However, I want to answer some of your questions
-Adoption, foster care and orphanages in Nigeria are barely existent. Too few. They arent options at all to most people. I doubt its viability in Nigeria
-Unfortunately, Nigerian churches prefer the "abstinence only" education

Logicboy03:


Well said, Texanomaly! I cant believe that for once I agree with you 100% on what you have said....no question at all!


However, I want to answer some of your questions
-Adoption, foster care and orphanages in Nigeria are barely existent. Too few. They arent options at all to most people. I doubt its viability in Nigeria
-Unfortunately, Nigerian churches prefer the "abstinence only" education

It's a shame. Woman and children are the losers in this case.

I predict this is going to be another fruitless discourse on abortion but will state my views as I have done before for two reasons:

1) I am one of 4 members who do not condone abortion in any case. The other 3 would be Anony, Italo and Olaadegbu.

2) We have some newbies to the section who may be unaware of the prior debate on the subject.

Two topics you raised: Abortion and Contraceptives. I am sure you know that I do not support either but I will only focus on the former topic. A discourse on contraceptives here will only shroud the wrong inherent in abortion.

Logicboy03: 1) Laws against abortion do not stop abortion- they only make abortions unsafe
Death from unsafe abortions is actually higher in countries that ban abortion


The issue here is that unplanned and unwanted pregnancies will happen. Banning abortion does not solve the problem. It is just reducing one solution for the women.

Laws can be either preventive or detective. It is arguable that the best laws are created with the aim to prevent any future occurrence of an act that is considered against 'public morals' as defined by the constitution.

Despite its goal of preventing any future act of illegality, the law in itself is limited to a large extent in fulfilling this objective because it cannot force people to bend their will to it. People still have to choose to work within the confines of the law.

Laws against abortion CANNOT stop abortion...it is impractical!!! NO law can STOP the object for which it is created. Take murder and non-negligent manslaughter as an example. Despite the various laws against these evils, they are still not enough to prevent people from committing these distasteful acts.

To expect laws against abortion to STOP abortion is really stretching it; and to say that the laws against abortion only makes it unsafe is quite amusing. Similar to saying that laws against murder only makes murder unsafe. Abortion is a crime against the innocent and every Government would do well to provide 'stern measures' to guard against this evil.

Logicboy03:
2) Preaching Abstinence does not work
Many christians and muslims like to preach about abstinence. They want people not to have s.ex before marriage. However, that is a lie- people will have sex before marriage even if they are believers. In fact, the bible belt states in the USA has more teen pregnancies than other states! A study actually found a relationship between teen pregnancy and religion!
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/04/teen-birthrates-are-way-down-still-high-these-states/1735/

Furthemore, research has found out that contraceptives and a general se.x education go a long way in reducing teen pregnancies.
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/15/abstinence_isnt_working/

Here in Nigeria, we preach abstinence while we know that older men are having their way with very young girls- even as low as secondary school girls. We preach abstinence while frowning on the use of condoms and contraceptives. Very sad.

Of course 'preaching' abstinence will not work for everyone. There are folks it works for while there are those it won't work for. Just like 'preaching' against murder does not work for everyone. Since this is same for murder, do we now go ahead to make murder legal for it to be safe for murderers?

Logicboy03:
4) Abortion is a women's rights issue and many developed countries have recognized this
Yes, a woman has the right over her body. What really gives a man the right to tell a woman what to do or what not to do with a fertilized egg in her body? Of course, there are caveats to abortion, just like every other right. No one is asking for women just to abort babies whenever they feel like instead, the pro-abortion women's rights movement is making an ethical argument for a rational discussion on abortion. Pregnancy affects women in various ways and they should at least have some say in a situation that would definitely change their lives
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/mother/for_1.shtml

Women like men have rights which are inalienable. The rights of one person ends at that point where it encroaches on the rights of another. This principle is not different for women. Abortion infringes on the right to life of a human being and as such no woman has any right to encroach on that right, no matter what.

Logicboy03:
[size=15pt] Most abortions are done in the first month when the feotus looks nothing like a human.[/size]

Probably the argument put forth by the Slavers back then. Of course blacks look nothing like humans as their colour is akin to monkeys, hence the rationality for slavery. If it doesn't look like us then it is definitely not human. Just saying...

striktlymi:

Probably the argument put forth by the Slavers back then. Of course blacks look nothing like humans as their colour is akin to monkeys, hence the rationality for slavery. If it doesn't look like us then it is definitely not human. Just saying...

First...Why does everything come back to slavery?

Second...Do you think a 10-12 year old girl, who is impregnated by her father or brother, should carry and deliver the child?

texanomaly:

First...Why does everything come back to slavery?

I fail to understand what you mean by the bold.

texanomaly:
Second...Do you think a 10-12 year old girl, who is impregnated by her father or brother, should carry and deliver the child?

My direct answer is: YES!!!

That case is a very sad one and something that the dad should be punished for. This is one case that would make some persons to continue being angry at God (though misguided).

An innocent child was impregnated by one who is supposed to be her guardian without God coming to her rescue or preventing conception from taking place Conception took place which is the beginning of a new life. The life is sacred to both God and man; and NO one has any right to cut short that life.

Now my question to you: Do you think there is any excuse for murder?

Life begins at conception'
Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.
Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the
mothers'.
Week 3: By the end of third week the child's backbone spinal column and nervous system are
forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape. A neural groove, which is the
foundation for the brain structure is formed
Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.
Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.
Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.
Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to
form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.
Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and
frown. The baby can hiccup.
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate. Week 11 the baby can
grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal
structure, nerves, and circulation.
Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal
cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.
Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.
Week 15: The baby has an adult's taste buds.
Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a
day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a
pound.
Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.
Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes
they can be saved even younger.
Week 20: At 20 weeks the baby recognizes its' mothers voice.
Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing
lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an
increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby.
Months 7 through 9: Eyeteeth are present. The baby opens and closes his eyes. The baby is
using four of the five senses (vision, hearing, taste, and touch.) He knows the difference
between waking and sleeping, and can relate to the moods of the mother. The baby's skin
begins to thicken, and a layer of fat is produced and stored beneath the skin. Antibodies are
built up, and the baby's heart begins to pump 300 gallons of blood per day.
No one is born is complete, as part of our bodies continue to grow and develop after birth
Some countries only legalize abortion of pregnancy that does not cross 24 weeks. But murder
is murder, it does not make a difference if you kill a day old baby or a 75 year old man

---

Abortion is the highest kind of murder because of the number of lives it has claimed. No other
kind of murder, like genocide,terror attacks, holocaust can be compared with abortion.
Let's use USA as an example because we lack statistics in Nigeria, Since the legalization of
abortion in 1973 in USA there have been approximately 50 million abortions performed in the
United States. that's an average of 1.4 million babies per year from 1973-2008 compare that
to 3,497 people who died as a result of 2001 sept 11 attacks. Worldwide statistics is around
41-42 million a year

striktlymi:

I fail to understand what you mean by the bold.



My direct answer is: YES!!!

That case is a very sad one and something that the dad should be punished for. This is one case that would make some persons to continue being angry at God (though misguided).

An innocent child was impregnated by one who is supposed to be her guardian without God coming to her rescue or preventing conception from taking place Conception took place which is the beginning of a new life. The life is sacred to both God and man; and NO one has any right to cut short that life.

Now my question to you: Do you think there is any excuse for murder?

To the bolded...YES



I gave my stance on abortion here:

texanomaly:
Personally...I would not consider it in the case of rap.e. Im not certain I would not put the child up for adoption after the birth though. He/she would have a better chance at a good life away from people who know.

In the case of danger to my own life, I still may not consider it.

Now in the case of inces.t, I would consider abortion.

As for killing a child simply because it is not convenient at this time, I would say; it is wrong. I am for abstinence till marriage, but I know my view is not the popular one.

If you get pregnant you should take responsibility for your actions. Have the child. Give the baby up for adoption if you don't want it.

This is my opinion only. In the case of rap.e, inces.t and danger to the mother, I think there should be a choice. It may not be the choice I would make, but it should be a choice.

texanomaly:

To the bolded...YES

What exactly is your excuse for murder that will make it right?

striktlymi:

What exactly is your excuse for murder that will make it right?

Self defense * fighting for your country * protecting your family

texanomaly:

Self defense * fighting for your country * protecting your family

Killing in Self defense is not murder.

One can commit murder while fighting for his/her country but strictly speaking, fighting for one's country aint the same as murder.

Protecting one's family can be linked to self defense. That too aint murder strictly speaking.

striktlymi: I predict this is going to be another fruitless discourse on abortion but will state my views as I have done before for two reasons:

1) I am one of 4 members who do not condone abortion in any case. The other 3 would be Anony, Italo and Olaadegbu.

2) We have some newbies to the section who may be unaware of the prior debate on the subject.

Why are you commenting if it is going to be fruitless? What is wrong with you? It is not fruitless because the thread is based on facts

striktlymi:
Two topics you raised: Abortion and Contraceptives. I am sure you know that I do not support either but I will only focus on the former topic. A discourse on contraceptives here will only shroud the wrong inherent in abortion.

Nonsense position but I digress...

striktlymi:
Laws can be either preventive or detective. It is arguable that the best laws are created with the aim to prevent any future occurrence of an act that is considered against 'public morals' as defined by the constitution.

Despite its goal of preventing any future act of illegality, the law in itself is limited to a large extent in fulfilling this objective because it cannot force people to bend their will to it. People still have to choose to work within the confines of the law.

Laws against abortion CANNOT stop abortion...it is impractical!!! NO law can STOP the object for which it is created. Take murder and non-negligent manslaughter as an example. Despite the various laws against these evils, they are still not enough to prevent people from committing these distasteful acts.

To expect laws against abortion to STOP abortion is really stretching it; and to say that the laws against abortion only makes it unsafe is quite amusing. Similar to saying that laws against murder only makes murder unsafe. Abortion is a crime against the innocent and every Government would do well to provide 'stern measures' to guard against this evil.

Any sensible person would understand that "stop" here would mean "reduce".

Murder laws do actually reduce murder.
Importation laws (bans) reduce importation

Banning abortion does nothing to reduce abortion. It has never worked. Infact, unsafe abortions usually rise in places where abortions are banned.


please, stop arguing dubiously against facts

striktlymi:
Of course 'preaching' abstinence will not work for everyone. There are folks it works for while there are those it won't work for. Just like 'preaching' against murder does not work for everyone. Since this is same for murder, do we now go ahead to make murder legal for it to be safe for murderers?

Again, "stop" means "reduce" in this instance.

Now abstinence only preaching does not reduce teen pregnancies

However, proper sex education and contraceptives reduce teen pregnancy

The best and most effective solution against teen pregnancy is contraceptives. FACT!

No one takes the catholic church and catholics seriously on abortion when they argue against facts

striktlymi:
Women like men have rights which are inalienable. The rights of one person ends at that point where it encroaches on the rights of another. This principle is not different for women. Abortion infringes on the right to life of a human being and as such no woman has any right to encroach on that right, no matter what.

Again, you are the one just making claims without logical argument or evidence. This is why the debate is fruitless.


You do realise that you would have no response to a pregnant woman in many cases of abortion

Striklymi (Striky) VS Pregnant rap.ed woman (preggo)

Striky; You have no right to abort that 2 week pregnancy

Preggo; Who the hell are you to tell me what to do with my body

Striky; You are murdering the baby and it is bad by God's standards and the society

Preggo; First, it is not murder, a 2 week baby looks nothing human. One can only "murder" a human according to the law
Secondly, you are not carrying the baby
Thirdly, you wont financially support me and the baby if I decide to keep it
Fourthly, you wont want to pay higher taxes for govt to fund orphanages and foster care institutions (if I give the baby away)
Fifth, unless you have raised a bast.ard child, dont tell me to raise one.

Everybody else; Damn striky, you got owned!!

Logicboy03:


Why are you commenting if it is going to be fruitless? What is wrong with you? It is not fruitless because the thread is based on facts




Nonsense position but I digress...

My prediction is coming to pass...

Logicboy03:
Any sensible person would understand that "stop" here would mean "reduce".

Murder laws do actually reduce murder.
Importation laws (bans) reduce importation

Banning abortion does nothing to reduce abortion. It has never worked. Infact, unsafe abortions usually rise in places where abortions are banned.


please, stop arguing dubiously against facts




Again, "stop" means "reduce" in this instance.

Check what it means to 'shift the goal post'.

Logicboy03:
Now abstinence only preaching does not reduce teen pregnancies

However, proper sex education and contraceptives reduce teen pregnancy

The best and most effective solution against teen pregnancy is contraceptives. FACT!

No one takes the catholic church and catholics seriously on abortion when they argue against facts

Find someone else to talk to about contraceptives.

Logicboy03:
Again, you are the one just making claims without logical argument or evidence. This is why the debate is fruitless.

Logicboy03:
You do realise that you would have no response to a pregnant woman in many cases of abortion

Striklymi (Striky) VS Pregnant rap.ed woman (preggo)

Striky; You have no right to abort that 2 week pregnancy

Preggo; Who the hell are you to tell me what to do with my body

Striky; You are murdering the baby and it is bad by God's standards and the society

Preggo; First, it is not murder, a 2 week baby looks nothing human. One can only "murder" a human according to the law
Secondly, you are not carrying the baby
Thirdly, you wont financially support me and the baby if I decide to keep it
Fourthly, you wont want to pay higher taxes for govt to fund orphanages and foster care institutions (if I give the baby away)
Fifth, unless you have raised a bast.ard child, dont tell me to raise one.

Everybody else; Damn striky, you got owned!!

Guy shift!!!!

I will stick around a bit to see if there is anyone who can present the case for abortion better; otherwise, my time here is sooooo up.

What do you mean banning abortion does nothing to reduce abortion? So the number of abortions that occur in banned states is the same with the ones that occur in other states that legalize it?

Say no to abortion

striktlymi:

My prediction is coming to pass...






Check what it means to 'shift the goal post'.





Find someone else to talk to about contraceptives.












Guy shift!!!!

I will stick around a bit to see if there is anyone who can present the case for abortion better; otherwise, my time here is sooooo up.

You have already messed up. You either have nothing to say or your arguments are inferior

The facts are in the op. Yet, you claimed a fruitless debate- I dont know how it is a fruitless debate when it the OP is based on FACTS....



Furthermore, even the studies use the word "stop". So please, stop the semantics and dubious arguments

Joshthefirst: What do you mean banning abortion does nothing to reduce abortion? So the number of abortions that occur in banned states is the same with the ones that occur in other states that legalize it?

Here is the reasoning


Countries that allow abortion usually also have an educated youth on the use of contraceptives and se.x education.They have less children....Japan. UK

Countries that dont allow abortion usually have silly attitudes towards contraceptives and preach unattainable abstinence. The women in these countries get pregnant anyhow and then go to quack/native/black market doctors for abortion.