macof:

I read the first ogiso was from ijawland

You know that the Benin in the house will take that as sacrilege. The writer was not on ground when it happened and was he (the author) of Benin ancestry? If yes, did the Oba appoint him for this and accept his position? If no, is there anything in it for him as a non Benin to see Benin in this light, like his biases?

I personally have seen what I am saying happen in the court of the king of Apomu. Until the king came out, all his subjects who were as informed as he is refused to speak up. Even there was a case of a simple proverb about the place that a chief wanted to chip in, he ask me to ask the king, "your highness, please what does Ete daye, asha dapomu mean?" I did.

Then Apomu story has to get us asking question as to what we were told at Ikoyi Ile. You know, people present a story to favour their side, but in the core of it the truth can be easily decipher.The point is, everyone have their way of seeing things.

Did Benin came from Ijaw?

The main people that introduce us to the lexicon Ogiso are Benin, not Ijaw. And they told us that the Ogiso are king(s) from the sky. Now as to Oduduwa, the first people that introduce this lexicon to the world are the Yoruba, and they told us it is a name from the heaven. it is not from Benin that Yoruba picked the word Oduduwa, but now, the Benin says ekalediran(?) is Oduduwa. Why is it so tough and so recent?

Oduduwa should have been "aka" Ekalediran, and a variant of the story should have been going on from the days of yore, not a sudden evolution. The thing is, the new school of Afrocentric historian on this Benin curve for Yoruba were adopting the "East" as if Yoruba were particular about East in their story of origin. afterall, Orun simply connote heaven, five, neck, destroyers or annihilators.

The Eastern Origin

This Eastern curve is exactly what RandomAA was trying to do somewhere in his "east west south north" thread. The East was product of Samuel Johnson's assertion that Mecca is the East and the East is Mecca in the History of The Yorubas. Johnson emphasis East, not because he was aware of possible Benin curve, but to make some noise as to Mecca being the place in the East and not Jew or Egypt or Mesopotamia.

However, all the people are one big mix. But the joker is not always who come from who. Why not claim Igbo or Hausa for Benin? No 'lexical bridge' exist in classic times to burrow the link, such as you have it in Oba between Yoruba and Edo. The Igbos have Obi, had it been its Oba, they would be more involve in the equation now.

The Yoruba have Obi, it is not developed, just as the Igbo has not developed her version to tangible institution till recent time. The saying Ijesha Oshere, Onile Obi is not just a fancy talk, its talking about Onile (land owning) Obi (matriarch). this is patrilineal Africanus, so matrilineal is not going to survive. But thats where we may have started before the "Princedom" stole it from the "Queendom"

The Yoruba/Benin "Oba" competition?


So, the term Oba is the problem. Without it, Yoruba historians wont border include Benin in their historiography, I guess. Who has the lexicon? Is it Benin that was calling her kings Oba before the Yoruba or they switch from Ogiso to Oba at some point? What has the Yoruba being calling their king? Oduduwa? Ogiso? What?

This is how to find out: how many variants of the world occur in a language in current usage at Benin and at Yoruba? we have benins to ask for this, but in Yoruba, a man on the street is familiar with Oba as loba, i.e meet him. Oba is when bird also perches, eye ti ba le okun, then it is found in Obakan, same father siblings. Other variant is Obi and Iba, from Ibadan axis.

Oba is the variant of Iye. So it is said Obakan or Iyekan. The Yoruba are people enough to come up with their historical identity and lexicons. It is Benin that should come later to claim Yoruba emanated from them, that's backlash for the long century of Yoruba doing the same.

As to ete daye, ashaa dapomu, the king told us that during the Yoruba civil war, the 'pax britanica' English banned gunpowder. The Apomites have to con things up after smuggling the stuff to the town. So they no longer call it 'etu~ibon', (Yoruba for gunpowder) but 'ashaa' a black, powdery tobacco stimulant. So the buyer would ask for 'stimulant' when asking for gunpowder in the real sense. This 'deception' is what is call 'ete' at Apomu, who depend on the gunpowder for self preservation in spite of coming under british protectorate.

I can't even remember who the writer is and I never saved the page.

One thing I remember is dat the 'ogiso' is an ijaw name as well as the name 'igodo'.

some geologist have described This region- that is South South Nigeria as a very old habitation dating several Years on BC(the figures I can't remember).

Two set of inhabitants is known
1. Ancient People from the sky known as Oru (possibly a variant of Horus- Egyptian God of the sky)
2. migrants from The North who settled in Ile-Ife and claimed descent from Oduduwa and Osara- must be Okanbi's followers or unrecorded children

The ijo seem to know a lot about Oduduwa even better than some Yoruba people(that is if their records are accurate)
They know his wife Osara and some claim descent from her.

Oduduwa according to ijo came from Nubia.
That could explain why Oduduwa was very friendly to Ogboroganda who also came from Nubian territories

ladionline: The Eastern Origin

This Eastern curve is exactly what RandomAA was trying to do somewhere in his "east west south north" thread. The East was product of Samuel Johnson's assertion that Mecca is the East and the East is Mecca in the History of The Yorubas. Johnson emphasis East, not because he was aware of possible Benin curve, but to make some noise as to Mecca being the place in the East and not Jew or Egypt or Mesopotamia.

Truth be told Samuel Johnson was not a true historian, He just kept spreading rubbish information.

It's impossible for His assertions to be accurate
1. Nimrod Was Mesopotamian and not Arab
2. Nimrod lived Thousands of years into the BC period.

So it's impossible for Nimrod to be Oduduwa's father

Another thing is Samuel Johnson had bias in favor of his home town- Oyo

However, all the people are one big mix. But the joker is not always who come from who. Why not claim Igbo or Hausa for Benin? No 'lexical bridge' exist in classic times to burrow the link, such as you have it in Oba between Yoruba and Edo. The Igbos have Obi, had it been its Oba, they would be more involve in the equation now.

The Yoruba have Obi, it is not developed, just as the Igbo has not developed her version to tangible institution till recent time. The saying Ijesha Oshere, Onile Obi is not just a fancy talk, its talking about Onile (land owning) Obi (matriarch). this is patrilineal Africanus, so matrilineal is not going to survive. But thats where we may have started before the "Princedom" stole it from the "Queendom"

The Yoruba/Benin "Oba" competition?


So, the term Oba is the problem. Without it, Yoruba historians wont border include Benin in their historiography, I guess. Who has the lexicon? Is it Benin that was calling her kings Oba before the Yoruba or they switch from Ogiso to Oba at some point? What has the Yoruba being calling their king? Oduduwa? Ogiso? What?

'Oba' is a Yoruba word that first came to Edo through Oranmiyan's sojourn in the land.

The first Oba of bini is Oranmiyan's son, so it's not just the word 'oba' but another who knows the history of ile-Oodua would know the link between Bini and various Yoruba Towns.

[/quote]

Macof, where have you been hidden this lovely refinement all this while? You were cheating all of us and your audience for a long while, thank God we now have a very fair macof. That's a blessing for all of us, not that we need to agree, but we have to turn out as a very prudent and comprehensive scholars, irrespective of our philosophical inclinations. Our unique vision and future depend on it. We can be angry couple of times and be honest and move on. Welcome dear brother, I've lost you a long while ago. Kaabiesio!

macof: I can't even remember who the writer is and I never saved the page.

One thing I remember is dat the 'ogiso' is an ijaw name as well as the name 'igodo'.

some geologist have described This region- that is South South Nigeria as a very old habitation dating several Years on BC(the figures I can't remember).

Two set of inhabitants is known
1. Ancient People from the sky known as Oru (possibly a variant of Horus- Egyptian God of the sky)
2. migrants from The North who settled in Ile-Ife and claimed descent from Oduduwa and Osara- must be Okanbi's followers or unrecorded children

The ijo seem to know a lot about Oduduwa even better than some Yoruba people(that is if their records are accurate)
They know his wife Osara and some claim descent from her.

Oduduwa according to ijo came from Nubia.
That could explain why Oduduwa was very friendly to Ogboroganda who also came from Nubian territories

This is beautiful, as for me, Ijaw are of the old Yoruba league.

Touching the work of Revd. Samuel Johnson, it is one of the 100 must influential book of the 19th century, according to CSS Bookshop. It is a breathtaking research open to critical review. Most of terms you use and stories we share are shaped because Johnson gave impetus to it. You can be right, he can be wrong somewhere, but you do not condemn an irreplaceable work when there is no way of verifying his or your claims on decisive points. My vote, for Johnson as we progress.

Shame on all you all.
You are all so inferior-feeling to be analyzing and concluding that these Yoruba deities 'Odudua' etc come from Nubia, Mecca, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Babylonia etc - names of places stated nowhere within the ultimate literal corpus of ancient Yorubas; IFA: The authority of the Yoruba origin and every human race. When in fact it's the other way round. Ifa states in some verses that all human being originates from the ethereal Otu-Ife and not Ile-Ife the physical location in Osun State which many have been led to believe.

ladionline: This is beautiful, as for me, Ijaw are of the old Yoruba league.

Every civilization from The Ewe people of Cote d'ivoire to Igbos and Efik are of the Yoruba league. Tho I prefer to use the word 'Oodua'

The problem is that so many of us don't care about our history.

ghostofsparta: Shame on all you all.
You are all so inferior to be analysing and concluding that these Yoruba deities 'Odudua' etc come from Nubia, Mecca, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Babylonia etc. Names of places unknown to Ifa-the ultimate authority of Yoruba origin'. When in fact it's the other way round. Ifa states in some verses that all human being originates from Otu-Ife.

lol chill ghost we need to examine every possible assertion tho many people have been so dumb in this issue. And Nothing can tell Yoruba history and the history of this region than Ifa.

I never resolve on a conclusion until I've examined all accounts

macof:

Every civilization from The Ewe people of Cote d'ivoire to Igbos and Efik are of the Yoruba league. Tho I prefer to use the word 'Oodua'

The problem is that so many of us don't care about our history.

Perfect. Well people do in their own ways, they were just more confused by the dynamics of our history than we do. At least no matter how small or childlike, we often have intricate ideas to talk about. We do not have a luxury of a powerful authority somewhere to put us through. Yet here we are with bit and piece that each person has. Together we are doing some ground work for the future where people will value their history. Each person's opinion here is closer to the user than the conclutions of a prof. So we are involve in the big picture of the future. We are already casting and crafting our history for the next generation. These threads are library. This is how far scholarship has evolved, from classroom to chatroom, sort of.

macof:

lol chill ghost we need to examine every possible assertion tho many people have been so dumb in this issue. And Nothing can tell Yoruba history and the history of this region than Ifa.

I never resolve on a conclusion until I've examined all accounts

Gbam! All we have to be is flexible and keen. Time is the revealer of all secrets. With time and patient, good materials will force their way out of the closet. @sparta, Its good to be able to stretch and accomodate variant views. Don't conclude yet until you supply the Ifa tradition, if not you will only complain and your peers would be doing things you don't like with our common heritage.

who cares. i dont see yoruba trying to claim to be the source of anybody. it is always the other way around. I think this inherent inferiority complex is an answer in itself.

macof:
I can't even remember who the writer is and I never saved the page.

One thing I remember is dat the 'ogiso' is an ijaw name as well as the name 'igodo'.

some geologist have described This region- that is South South Nigeria as a very old habitation dating several Years on BC(the figures I can't remember).

Two set of inhabitants is known
1. Ancient People from the sky known as Oru (possibly a variant of Horus- Egyptian God of the sky)
2. migrants from The North who settled in Ile-Ife and claimed descent from Oduduwa and Osara- must be Okanbi's followers or unrecorded children

The ijo seem to know a lot about Oduduwa even better than some Yoruba people(that is if their records are accurate)
They know his wife Osara and some claim descent from her.

Oduduwa according to ijo came from Nubia.
That could explain why Oduduwa was very friendly to Ogboroganda who also came from Nubian territories

Lol