[quote author=emperortony]
My problem with non-tithers is not the fact that they don't tithe, because its their choice. But the fact that they don't want others, who believe in tithing to continue in their faith. I mean how does it affects you if the next man decides to tithe? If they choose to be gullible as you've termed it, maybe it their choice and you should respect that.

It affects me because the Tithe is preached with the threat of Hell or Punishment and hence many if not most of its adherents obey this teaching not out of love but for fear of loss , be it loss of health , finances or even life itself. They think they can appease God with money , its almost a bribe. God blesses us out of love not because of our money.

Furthermore, they also pay the tithe at a great great peril to their own needs , that of their family and relatives . In some cases they cannot meet the obligation they owe to their creditors.

The Tithe as it is preached is a LIE and must be eradicated for the weed that it is.

Much has been made about tithing here on NL. It is definitely true that many pastors have used the concept of tithing to intimidate their congregation into giving. That notwithstanding does not mean that Christians shouldn't tithe.

1) Tithing (Abraham) actually predates the giving of the Mosaic Laws and therefore cannot be said to have been done away with the advent of Christ. Jesus did actually say that the Pharisees ought to be paying tithes along with fulfilling the weightier matters of the law.

2) Tithing should be out of a free and willing heart. A heart that recognizes that God is worthy of the "first fruits" of one's labor. While Christians are not explicitly commanded to tithe, it is a biblical principle dating back to Cain and Abel, and one that those who claim to love and revere God should practice.

3) Why should we pay tithes? God makes it clear that it is for the purpose of those ministering in the temple, or nowadays in the church. A labourer is worthy of his hire and the church needs funds to cover its costs. Also, it is only with regards to the tithe that God says people have robbed Him and that man should test Him. Now, to the Jews, they were in breach of a commandment, but we see how big of a deal it is to God. So how much more will God bless Christians who tithe not out of commandment, but out of a willing and cheerful heart. Unless we don't believe that God will live up to his word.

Now regardless of how one feels about the tithe, there is a powerful biblical principle that runs straight through the Bible, from OT to NT. And that is that to gain, you must lose; to receive, you must give; to be blessed, you must bless. Many Christians complain about not being blessed but they are tight-fisted with what they have and even when the give, they give grudgingly. May God teach us all.

I pay my tithes at church because the church needs it to do the work of the ministry. Our leadership doesn't even get paid. Payment of tithe has nothing to do with salvation but I must wonder at the Christian who claims to appreciate God and who believes that the work of the ministry is important, yet makes a fuss about giving 10% to God.

EMILO2STAY: my brother lets not argue over this...its a well known fact that catholics dont pay tithe neither do their priest preach tithe from malachi 3.8, i was born and baptized into the catholic church so u are not talking to a novice,i am aware in recent times some fraudulent priest in nigeria intruduced tithe to the catholic church but that is not a catholic doctrine . The zakat in islam is simply voluntary alms giving for charity purpose and not compulsory 10% of their income.

so some Catholic priests now introduce their own doctrines into the Catholic Church, i thought the Catholic Church is a universal church
well, thanks for opening our eyes to these FRAUDULENT PRIESTS in the Catholic Church

EMILO2STAY: my brother lets not argue over this... The zakat in islam is simply voluntary alms giving for charity purpose and not compulsory 10% of their income.

This is a BIG LIE.The zakat as one of the fundamental 3rd pillars of islam is OBLIGATORY in nature and COMPULSORY for all muslims.

Pls do make your research properly before posting falsehoods on a world wide web.Thanks.

EMILO2STAY:
my brother lets not argue over this...its a well known fact that catholics dont pay tithe neither do their priest preach tithe from malachi 3.8,
i was born and baptized into the catholic church so u are not talking to a novice,
i am aware in recent times some fraudulent priest in nigeria intruduced tithe to the catholic church but that is not a catholic doctrine .

The zakat in islam is simply voluntary alms giving for charity purpose and not compulsory 10% of their income.

Bidam:

This is a BIG LIE. The zakat as one of the fundamental 3rd pillars of islam is OBLIGATORY in nature and COMPULSORY for all muslims.

Pls do make your research properly before posting falsehoods on a world wide web.Thanks.

^^^
EMILO2STAY is right on this one.

Zakat is compulsory, just like charitable giving to Christians is compulsory
Zakat unlike tithing is not fixed (i.e. Koran does not specify the percentages to be given)

Each Muslim calculates individually how much his or her own zakah will be
just as each Christian calculates individually how his or her own charitable giving will be

Zakat (Arabic: زكاة‎ [zæˈkæːt] or alms-giving
is the practice of charitable giving by Muslims based on accumulated wealth,
and is obligatory for all who are able to do so

Zakat is similar to the 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 charitable giving (i.e. not tithe) advised for Christians based on accumulated wealth
which too is only obligatory for all who are able to do so

Zakat is alms-giving and does not necessarily involve money (i.e. doesn't have to be money or 10% of money)
and is similar or just like the charitable giving advised in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7

NativeBoy:
I pay my tithes at church because the church needs it to do the work of the ministry. Our leadership doesn't even get paid. Payment of tithe has nothing to do with salvation but I must wonder at the Christian who claims to appreciate God and who believes that the work of the ministry is important, yet makes a fuss about giving 10% to God.

I think you pay your tithe for 2 reasons :

1. Avoid punishment.
2. Reap a million fold in $$$

BabaGnoni:



^^^
EMILO2STAY is right on this one.

Zakat is compulsory, just like charitable giving to Christians is compulsory
‎‏

The guy said voluntary..Use your dico to find the difference between voluntary and compulsory. Read posts properly before commenting.

Bidam:

The guy said voluntary..
Use your dico to find the difference between voluntary and compulsory.
Read posts properly before commenting.

I did all the above properly before commenting Bidam

The voluntary there, is a paradox (i.e. the voluntary seems to contradict the obligatory part of the exercise)
because just as mentioned in my previous post
Zakat is similar to the 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 charitable giving (i.e. not tithe) advised for Christians which too is voluntary
but is only compulsory/obligatory for all who are able to do so

BabaGnoni:

I did all the above properly before commenting Bidam

The voluntary there, is a paradox (i.e. the voluntary seems to contradict the obligatory part of the exercise)

The guy never called it a paradox. It was your IDEA to defend his lie. Why not wait for him to comment on it.

because just as mentioned in my previous post
Zakat is similar to the 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 charitable giving (i.e. not tithe) advised for Christians which too is voluntary
but is only obligatory for all who are able to do so

This also is a lie.Zakat by the muslims is done after the completion of the ramadam fast as an obligatory RITUAL for those who received their wealth from Allah for the poor and this is ONCE a year and is different from the normal offerings you are comparing in 2 cor 9:6-7 whenever Christians gather.

Bidam:
The guy never called it a paradox. It was your IDEA to defend his lie. Why not wait for him to comment on it.

This also is a lie. Zakat by the muslims is done after the completion of the ramadam fast as an obligatory RITUAL for those who received their wealth from Allah for the poor and this is ONCE a year and is different from the normal offerings you are comparing in 2 cor 9:6-7 whenever Christians gather.

^^^
I agree
... america the muslims will know, if it is compulsory to pay when paying a zakat would cause genuine hardship to self or family
... america the muslims will know, also whether or not the Koran Quran stipulates or gives a hint of a fixed rate (e.g. similar to tithes 10%)

NativeBoy: Much has been made about tithing here on NL. It is definitely true that many pastors have used the concept of tithing to intimidate their congregation into giving. That notwithstanding does not mean that Christians shouldn't tithe.

... ... ... ... ....

Also, we see how big of a deal it is to God. So how tithe, there is a powerful biblical principle that runs straight through the Bible, from OT to NT.

1. Was circumcision a 'big deal' to God? Did he make it a 'big deal' for the church?
2. Can you show where this 'powerful biblical principle' was prescribed for THE CHURCH?
3. IF tithing is still applicable, how does God's Word say it should be done?

@frosbel

I sent you a PM

DrummaBoy: @frosbel

I sent you a PM

sure, I will check, just a little busy right now, maybe later in the evening I will respond.

Thank You.

emperortony:
My problem with non-tithers is not the fact that they don't tithe, because its their choice. But the fact that they don't want others, who believe in tithing to continue in their faith. I mean how does it affects you if the next man decides to tithe? If they choose to be gullible as you've termed it, maybe it their choice and you should respect that. After all I have found it on several pages of the bible "irrespective if it is old or new" where we are asked to tithe. But I am yet to read a single portion of the bible that bluntly says we shouldn't tithe, so maybe until that portion come up, let those who believe in tithe, and the other non-tithing believer continue in their practices, without trying to claim rights. Matt.23:13 reads..“How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are trying to enter! Go in" my purpose of employing this scripture is to make you see reasons why you should let them be. And as for who gets the tithe its not of my business, "I speak for my self here" cause when I drop the money in the altar I assume I have given it to God. And am too busy to look back on how it is been spent, shall a man rob God by using God's money for his personal use, and you think God will not make the thief pay with his life? Are you now the right person to fight for God? Or did he set you in his committee to look in to the matter?

my concern over the year.... why is it their headache since i want to be gullible by paying tithes?

Bidam: This is a BIG LIE.The zakat as one of the fundamental 3rd pillars of islam is OBLIGATORY in nature and COMPULSORY for all muslims.

Pls do make your research properly before posting falsehoods on a world wide web.Thanks.

spot on bro

Gombs:

my concern over the year.... why is it their headache since i want to be gullible by paying tithes?

This is the reason for my own headache with the tithe doctrine and the reason why everyone should have such a headache also. I quote from the text of the proposed tithe tract:

DrummaBoy:

Tithing and the Gospel

Ideally the subject of whether Christians should tithe or not should not occupy a central space to warrant publication on a tract, if not for the fact that the practice of tithing is threatening the Christian gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ is shown clearly in the New Testament to be a free gospel (Romans 8:32; 2Peter 1:3). The idea that salvation can be purchased is strongly repudiated in the bible (Acts 8:20). Unfortunately, this is the impression that modern day practice of tithing is giving the world. There are many Christian churches today that make tithing compulsory. They go to the extent of saying that people cannot be members of churches except they are “faithful” tithers. Apart from the fact that such a position is foreign to scripture, it also betrays the central truth of the bible that our salvation is no longer fully paid; rather, it gives the impression that there are things we must add to it. In the days of the bible some thought to add good works to their salvation; in our days pastors are asking us to add tithing to our salvation.

Apart from the above, the impression that the world is getting about the church is not good at all. Many people have discarded the gospel message because modern gospel preaching does not only require for them to submit their lives to Christ, it also demands for them to submit their bank account to church. So that the tithe which members give to the church is the minimum people bring to church. Outside the tithe, there is also the mandatory yearly Firstfruit that members must pay as they give their whole salaries to churches in January. There are building pledges to be redeemed. There is the mission offering to be given. There are gifts that must be bought for the pastors at key occasions in their lives. At the end of the day, the ministers are the ones smiling to the bank, while church members are groaning. The lie is continually sold to church people that God blesses giving. Even though he does, these preachers should be reminded that giving is not the central subject of the bible. The implication is diverse but one of them is the proliferation of churches all around and the fact that many young people, who should be using their youthful years to be productive and make clean wealth, branch out to ministry for quick gain.

Gombs:

my concern over the year.... why is it their headache since i want to be gullible by paying tithes?

Yes, that was why I quoted this scripture Matt.23:13 reads..“How
terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees!
You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom
of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves
don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are
trying to enter! Go in" another annoying statement they make I quote " so if I am now receiving 10m my tithe will now me 1m" imagine they've not even started receiving the said money they are now looking @ the tithe with contempt. I imagine God on his throne saying, this one I will never allow to earn 10m cause he is already stingy with his thoughts. Is it not better to receive 10m and you pay a tithe of 1m, than to receive, 1m and not pay a tithe at all? If that is termed gullible, then chai--- I want to be gullible for the rest of my unexplainable but undeniable blessed life.

emperortony:
Yes, that was why I quoted this scripture Matt.23:13 reads..“How
terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees!
You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom
of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves
don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are
trying to enter! Go in" another annoying statement they make I quote " so if I am now receiving 10m my tithe will now me 1m" imagine they've not even started receiving the said money they are now looking @ the tithe with contempt. I imagine God on his throne saying, this one I will never allow to earn 10m cause he is already stingy with his thoughts. Is it not better to receive 10m and you pay a tithe of 1m, than to receive, 1m and not pay a tithe at all? If that is termed gullible, then chai--- I want to be gullible for the rest of my unexplainable but undeniable blessed life.

^^^
What you've quoted is before Calvary,
and so neither here or there
Jesus paid for the law and tithes on the Cross

emperortony:

Yes, that was why I quoted this scripture Matt.23:13 reads..“How
terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees!
You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom
of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves
don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are
trying to enter! Go in"

Normally I would ignore posts like this but since you have brought it twice now, one had better shed some light on the matter before you begin to think you have said something worthwhile.

First of all, I request you look up the snippet I provided Gombs in his "headache" post and tell me what you disagree about that post.

Secondly, Matthew 23 indicted all religious people, including those of you who make a big deal out of tithe. You insinuate from that verse that those who do not tithe will not go to heaven; a position that is similarly shared by some Judaizers in Paul's days who believe except you are circumcised you cannot be saved. A position similar to the Pharisees Jesus was castigating here, who believed that the way of salvation was through Moses laws and the tradition of the elders.

Those who shut the door of heaven against people and don't go in themselves are those who find security in what they do: RELIGION and not what Christ has done.

Pls read the whole passage well and realise that the Pharisees and Sadducees in those text can be conveniently replace with "men of God" of today and the meaning of the text will still be unchanged.

DrummaBoy:

Normally I would ignore posts like this but since you have brought it twice now, one had better shed some light on the matter before you begin to think you have said something worthwhile.

First of all, I request you look up the snippet I provided Gombs in his "headache" post and tell me what you disagree about that post.

Secondly, Matthew 23 indicted all religious people, including those of you who make a big deal out of tithe. You insinuate from that verse that those who do not tithe will not go to heaven; a position that is similarly shared by some Judaizers in Paul's days who believe except you are circumcised you cannot be saved. A position similar to the Pharisees Jesus was castigating here, who believed that the way of salvation was through Moses laws and the tradition of the elders.

Those who shut the door of heaven against people and don't go in themselves are those who find security in what they do: RELIGION and not what Christ has done.

Pls read the whole passage well and realise that the Pharisees and Sadducees in those text can be conveniently replace with "men of God" of today and the meaning of the text will still be unchanged.

I haven't read the said post you referred me to, will do that later. And yes you are right the sadducees and pharisees are like "men of God" or more like keepers of the law. Like I said during my first independent post I figuratively employed that scripture, so as to make the non-tithers let us pay our tithes and not try to make us become like them. "If they won't pay, they shouldn't try to stop those who are ready to pay" this is the point I wanted to make with that scripture and not the original "heaven's meaning as denoted in the passage".

I personally don't believe the consequences of not paying tithe is hell. I hardly make post as well cause most of the time it result to e-fighting and derogatory remark. So try to get my point let the tithers pay their tithe and the non-tither abstain from it, A man has the right to make up his mind. So creating a tract to discourage a man from tithing, I feel its an infringement and that was the major reason why I left my "sit down look" stance to drop a comment. It may not be worthwhile like you tags my 1st post, but at least I tried.

emperortony:
I haven't read the said post you referred me to, will do that later. And yes you are right the sadducees and pharisees are like "men of God" or more like keepers of the law. Like I said during my first independent post I figuratively employed that scripture, so as to make the non-tithers let us pay our tithes and not try to make us become like them. "If they won't pay, they shouldn't try to stop those who are ready to pay" this is the point I wanted to make with that scripture and not the original "heaven's meaning as denoted in the passage".
I personally don't believe the consequences of not paying tithe is hell. I hardly make post as well cause most of the time it result to e-fighting and derogatory remark. So try to get my point let the tithers pay their tithe and the non-tither abstain from it, A man has the right to make up his mind. So creating a tract to discourage a man from tithing, I feel its an infringement and that was the major reason why I left my "sit down look" stance to drop a comment. It may not be worthwhile like you tags my 1st post, but at least I tried.

People want to pay tithes, no one has an issue with that, fair enough
This is why no one is stopping or preventing such from continuing paying tithes

What most are saying is, such do not have to continue paying tithes (i.e. be bound by the law)
this is because Jesus had already settled the law and tithe at Golgotha,
unless tithe payers want to claim otherwise, that Jesus did not do such on the Cross for tithe.

One is now free of the law and of course tithe
and now liberated to exercise this freedom of willing and cheerful giving (i.e. no more to be done under compulsion)
No more mechanical giving, no enforcement/reminder, no intimidation with hell or otherwise if not tithing etc etc

Tithing is flesh, ego-centric, planned, rigid and self-gratifying
whereas free giving is spirit, spontaneous, impromptu, unplanned and uninhibited

One actually offers more, giving freely than tithing

emperortony:

I haven't read the said post you referred me to, will do that later. And yes you are right the sadducees and pharisees are like "men of God" or more like keepers of the law. Like I said during my first independent post I figuratively employed that scripture, so as to make the non-tithers let us pay our tithes and not try to make us become like them. "If they won't pay, they shouldn't try to stop those who are ready to pay" this is the point I wanted to make with that scripture and not the original "heaven's meaning as denoted in the passage".

I personally don't believe the consequences of not paying tithe is hell. I hardly make post as well cause most of the time it result to e-fighting and derogatory remark. So try to get my point let the tithers pay their tithe and the non-tither abstain from it, A man has the right to make up his mind. So creating a tract to discourage a man from tithing, I feel its an infringement and that was the major reason why I left my "sit down look" stance to drop a comment. It may not be worthwhile like you tags my 1st post, but at least I tried.

Thank you for understanding my position. I also get your position. In fact I also believe in the "live and let's live" attitude. While studying on tithes, I believe God opened my heart to understand Romans 4 one night. Since then I push the idea: "he that tithed to the Lord he does so... he that doesn't to God he does so", God has not rejected him either bc tithing is a small issue in God's kingdom.

This is actually the position I advocated on the tract too. But...

I needed you to read my response to Gombs to comprehend why this tract must be made. In brief, tithing is actually threatening the gospel. Its the reason Paul contended the Circumcisions in his days.

If there's anyone who advocates liberty in the use of finances it is anti tithers. if there's any group that advocate compulsion, it is tithers. This is from my experience and its the overwhelming testimony of most people on this thread. And our plea with tithers and their pastors is to allow people to use their money for whatever they wish and stop these lies called compulsory monetary tithes.

DrummaBoy:
Thank you for understanding my position. I also get your position. In fact I also believe in "live and let's live" attitude. While studying on tithes, I believe God opened my heart to understand Romans 4 one night. Since then I push the idea: "he that tithed to the Lord he does so... he that doesn't to God he does so", God has not rejected him either bc tithing is a small issue in God's kingdom.

This is actually the position I advocated on the advocated on the tract too. But...

I needed you to read my response to Gombs to comprehend why this tract must be made. In brief, tithing is actually threatening the gospel. Its the reason Paul contended the Circumcisions in his days.

If there anyone who advocates liberty in the use of finances it is anti tithers. if there any group that advocate compulsion, it is tithers. This is from my experience and its the overwhelming testimony of most people on this thread. And our plea with tithers and their pastors is to allow people to use their money for whatever they wish and stop these lies called compulsory monetary tithes.

^^^

DrummaBoy:

Thank you for understanding my position. I also get your position. In fact I also believe in "live and let's live" attitude. While studying on tithes, I believe God opened my heart to understand Romans 4 one night. Since then I push the idea: "he that tithed to the Lord he does so... he that doesn't to God he does so", God has not rejected him either bc tithing is a small issue in God's kingdom.

This is actually the position I advocated on the advocated on the tract too. But...

I needed you to read my response to Gombs to comprehend why this tract must be made. In brief, tithing is actually threatening the gospel. Its the reason Paul contended the Circumcisions in his days.

If there anyone who advocates liberty in the use of finances it is anti tithers. if there any group that advocate compulsion, it is tithers. This is from my experience and its the overwhelming testimony of most people on this thread. And our plea with tithers and their pastors is to allow people to use their money for whatever they wish and stop these lies called compulsory monetary tithes.

Now i understand your reason.

kuss:
so some Catholic priests now introduce their own doctrines into the Catholic Church, i thought the Catholic Church is a universal church
well, thanks for opening our eyes to these FRAUDULENT PRIESTS in the Catholic Church

yes if you doubt me go find out urself.

Bidam: This is a BIG LIE.The zakat as one of the fundamental 3rd pillars of islam is OBLIGATORY in nature and COMPULSORY for all muslims.

Pls do make your research properly before posting falsehoods on a world wide web.Thanks.

Collection: Today, in most Muslim countries,
zakat is collected through a decentralized and VOLUNTARY system where ELIGIBLE Muslims are expected
to pay the zakat based on worship and love of God.-wikipedia.
dont use this to defend tithe, the zakat is not compulsory for every muslim it is paid by those who can afford it and it is paid only once yearly strictly for the purpose of charity unlike the tithe which is imposed by pastors to all christians both rich and poor for an oblivious purpose, the zakat can also be paid in many forms which include agricultural, livestock and precious metals. There is no way you can draw a parallel between the zakat and tithe.

EMILO2STAY: Collection: Today, in most Muslim countries,
zakat is collected through a decentralized and VOLUNTARY system where ELIGIBLE Muslims are expected
to pay the zakat based on worship and love of God.-wikipedia.

Is this cut and join from wiki that is your route of escape? Why not swallow your pride and admit you lied against islam? Anyway i have made my point clear..no need prolonging banters with you, you brought the issue of zakat up and made an erroneous claim it is voluntary not me.

dont use this to defend tithe, the zakat is not compulsory for every muslim it is paid by those who can afford it and it is paid only once yearly strictly for the purpose of charity unlike the tithe which is imposed by pastors to all christians both rich and poor for an oblivious purpose, the zakat can also be paid in many forms which include agricultural, livestock and precious metals. There is no way you can draw a parallel between the zakat and tithe.

Who is drawing a parallel here? You must be consfused.Did you see me trade banters with you and your ilks concerning tithes on this thread I just pointed out your lie on zakat which is COMPULSORY for all muslim income earners.dats all.

frosbel:

I think you pay your tithe for 2 reasons :

1. Avoid punishment.
2. Reap a million fold in $$$

You are free to think what you wish. For me, I don't think that the God who gave everything to redeem me will turn around and punish me because I didn't pay tithes. Tithing has nothing to do with salvation. I do believe that I will definitely be blessed (and I have been) as I tithe. And not all blessing is monetary. I pay tithes because I believe God is the owner of the first fruits of my labor and that the church he has built needs to be well resourced.

trustman:
1. Was circumcision a 'big deal' to God? Did he make it a 'big deal' for the church?
2. Can you show where this 'powerful biblical principle' was prescribed for THE CHURCH?
3. IF tithing is still applicable, how does God's Word say it should be done?

Yes circumcision was a big deal to God. It signified his covenant with Abraham and the children of Israel. No, God didn't make it compulsory for the church but you are actually proving my point. The tithe and circumcision predate the giving of the law. Was Abraham under the law when he tithed? Or was he under duress? No. He did it out if a free heart to honor God and because he knew that God would bless Him in turn. The same thing for today's Christian: Tithing is not about whether there is or isn't a law.

Will a Christian be in danger of losing salvation because of not paying tithes? No, but there are blessings associated with the tithe. The Christian will simply not receive those blessings. Just like circumcision. Christians don't have to circumcise themselves. It has nothing to do with salvation. Yet, there are tremendous health benefits to circumcision. If you do it, you receive it. If you don't do it, you don't receive it.

Bidam: Is this cut and join from wiki that is your route of escape? Why not swallow your pride and admit you lied against islam? Anyway i have made my point clear..no need prolonging banters with you, you brought the issue of zakat up and made an erroneous claim it is voluntary not me.
Who is drawing a parallel here? You must be consfused.Did you see me trade banters with you and your ilks concerning tithes on this thread I just pointed out your lie on zakat which is COMPULSORY for all muslim income earners.dats all.

if am confused then you are hyper confused. The guy who made the zakat statement compared it with tithe... truth is the truth whether cut and join or not, ur ranting because u simply cant refute that fact the zakat is not for every muslims.

EMILO2STAY: if am confused then you are hyper confused. The guy who made the zakat statement compared it with tithe... truth is the truth whether cut and join or not, ur ranting because u simply cant refute that fact the zakat is not for every muslims.

Ask frosbel to give you the 50 pounds for d lies u called truth. You said zakat is voluntary, you never said it's not for every muslim another lie to save face.

NativeBoy:

You are free to think what you wish. For me, I don't think that the God who gave everything to redeem me will turn around and punish me because I didn't pay tithes. Tithing has nothing to do with salvation. I do believe that I will definitely be blessed (and I have been) as I tithe. And not all blessing is monetary. I pay tithes because I believe God is the owner of the first fruits of my labor and that the church he has built needs to be well resourced.

Apparently, you are also free to think what you wish. Gospel living should be based on sound biblical inferences and not sentiments, thoughts or needs.

As much as I wish to overlook this statement of yours since it is not directed at me, I find my mind returning to it over and over. So let's deal with it.

My grouse with your statement is your inability to see the link btw tithing and circumcision, as directed by trustman.

You say circumcision had health benefits, so we should do it, abi?

Why does Paul and the other apostles disagree with you?

Like tithing today, circumcision was viewed as a path to salvation and the apostles discouraged this: Acts15.

Like tithing today, circumcision was a Jewish practice that had the potential of blurring the significance of the New Testament covenant in the mind of those who practised it: Phillipians 3:3.

Like tithing today, the apostle Paul would have had the strongest rebuke for those who tithed like he had for those who practiced curcumcision: Galatians 5:4

Like tithing today, Paul saw no benefit in curcumcision save that it brought men into bondage.

I was born to a Muslim father who circumcised me. I circumcised my son. We both did based on accepted health and cultural norms, and not based on faith.

So we return to a salient point and that is the motive behind our actions. Paul who discouraged circumcision, circumcised Timothy for a reason: motive.

As long as your tithing is faith based, anchored on Jewish doctrines and practices, it is wrong. Or better stll, the motive is wrong. If, however, your tithing is a commitment to giving, as much as you could also give any other percentage of your income, then it is right. And that also justifies those who do not tithe but give bc their giving is also a proprtion of what they have. Rendering your motive for doing it right.

The motive for tithing is what most anti tither question. As long as tithing is for

1. Blessings

2. Based on the Jewish doctrine and practice

3. To be in right standing with God

4. To make heaven

5. To ward off devourer, etc,

You are tithing with wrong motives.

Only one motive makes tithing right: a commitment to giving with no strings attached.