I just watched a video where a christian claimed that it is only a belief in God that can truly cement that belief that all men are equal. The christian claimed that men have their differences in size, intelligence, strength and contributions to society.The only solution to these differences is to believe that God created all men equal.


This same argument was propounded by Anony, who then went forward to assert that atheism or atheists can not hold that all men are equal due to a lack of belief in God.


However, I want to rebut this argument. Logic alone can show us that all men are equal-

First of all, science tells us that all humans have the same basic make up, the same basic body parts and we are the same species. The differences in men mostly come from the effects of the environment. Furthermore, all humans come from the same mother- the mitrochondrial Eve.

All men have equal potential. The problem is that our environment, our experiences and upbringing are thing the things that make us unique. We were all foolish from the womb as babies. I am yet to see any human being that was intelligent as a baby. The inequality starts with the environment; breastfeeding as a baby, your teachings as a child, the prosperity of your society, the wealth of your parents, guardian etc.

In theory we are all equal as men and women. Unfortunately our environment makes it for some men to be more equal than others.




God is not necessary for a belief in equality. In fact, if we were to be honest, the Abrahamic God of Jews, Christians and Muslims advocates the inequality of man. For instance, Yaweh puts isreal as his chosen people- Isrealites are more important than other humans. Allah is best understood in Arabic and focuses mostly on the Middle Eastern men.

thank you
you using your mind well+you are a great thinker
vast majority of peeps are surprisingly incapable of independent reasoning! they rely on other sources

Of course not! Every one knows the Jews are god's chosen people and are more advanced.

Aggrippa: thank you
you using your mind well+you are a great thinker
vast majority of peeps are surprisingly incapable of independent reasoning! they rely on other sources

Thanks.

Apatheist: Of course not! Every one knows the Jews are god's chosen people and are more advanced.

That's a racist God for you

TheBigUrban2:


That's a racist God for you

Do not question god!

in the old testament, God chose Israel to spread his righteous message across the word. even at that when Israel sined against God he brought plagues upon them, he even gave them as captives to their enemies
then in the new testament God sent Jesus to redeem us to God out of every race, tribe, nation and people.
Revelation 5:9 and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

we are all equal before God, anybody that does his will is acceptable to him and he is the Israel of God .Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

the following verses testify to the fact that God is not a respecter of persons

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Ephesians 6:9 knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

kuss: in the old testament, God chose Israel to spread his righteous message across the word. even at that when Israel sined against God he brought plagues upon them, he even gave them as captives to their enemies
then in the new testament God sent Jesus to redeem us to God out of every race, tribe, nation and people.
Revelation 5:9 and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

we are all equal before God, anybody that does his will is acceptable to him and he is the Israel of God .Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

the following verses testify to the fact that God is not a respecter of persons

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Ephesians 6:9 knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

We are not all equal before Yaweh.

This is a God who chose to flood the whole world and leave a drunkard (Noah) and his family. What was special about Noah? Out of the 100's of people, was he the only righteous man? Seriously?

Why didnt God speak to the Africans? The first people in the world were from Africa....yet, he chose to speak to the isrealites.

The isrealites dealt in slavery. The isrealites had slaves from other tribes. However, God was only pained when the Egyptians enslaved isrealites

While I do disagree with the idea that a God is needed for us to hold a belief in the equality of all men, I would also have to disagree with your rebuttals.

First of all, all men [and women] are NOT born equal. It is frankly an absurd position to hold that the only differences that exist between humans only "come from the effects of the environment." On the contrary, genetics accounts for trillions of differences between the human species, each one affecting our eventual capabilities relative to the rest of the population. For example, where the ability to play basketball in the NBA is considered, a male measuring 5 foot and 3 inches is unequal to Shaquille O'Neal. A baby born without limbs is at a significant disadvantage relative to the rest of the world's babies, and this is before the environment even has a chance to "shape" them.

HOWEVER, consider Article 1 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights,

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

This idea is forged through philosophical reflection, and the notion that equality is one of the ideals that we as humans should aspire to. According to philosophers like Immanuel Kant, what makes human beings different from mere things is that people have dignity based on their ability to choose freely what they will do with their lives, and they have a fundamental moral right to have these choices respected. As with Thomas Jefferson's quote on the same issue in the Declaration of Independence, our equality lies in the rights held, in that everyone should be able to have life, liberty and to pursue their own happiness (among other things, unstated).

@ TheBigUrban2: You failed when you started mentioning logic. You see, logic requires that you have a conscious mind and atheists (naively following neuroscientists like Sam Harris) ignore the fact that the mind of man is immaterial. They believe your mind is simply chemicals in your brain at work. Since when do mere chemicals have logic?

timmy2409: While I do disagree with the idea that a God is needed for us to hold a belief in the equality of all men, I would also have to disagree with your rebuttals.

First of all, all men [and women] are NOT born equal. It is frankly an absurd position to hold that the [size=14pt]only differences[/size] that exist between humans only "come from the effects of the environment." On the contrary, genetics accounts for trillions of differences between the human species, each one affecting our eventual capabilities relative to the rest of the population. Where the ability to play basketball in the NBA is considered, a male measuring 5 foot and 3 inches is unequal to Shaquille O'Neal. A baby born without limbs is at a significant disadvantage relative to the rest of the world's babies, and this is before the environment even has a chance to "shape" them.

Take note of my op;

TheBigUrban2:
First of all, science tells us that all humans have the same basic make up, the same basic body parts and we are the same species. The differences in men [size=14pt]mostly come from[/size] the effects of the environment. Furthermore, all humans come from the same mother- the mitrochondrial Eve.

UyiIredia: @ TheBigUrban2: You failed when you started mentioning logic. You see, logic requires that you have a conscious mind and atheists (naively following neuroscientists like Sam Harris) ignore the fact that the mind of man is immaterial. They believe your mind is simply chemicals in your brain at work. Since when do mere chemicals have logic?

The mind is the brain and the brain is very physical.

Sharrap

timmy2409:

First of all, all men [and women] are NOT born equal. It is frankly an absurd position to hold that the only differences that exist between humans only "come from the effects of the environment." On the contrary, genetics accounts for trillions of differences between the human species, each one affecting our eventual capabilities relative to the rest of the population. Foe example, where the ability to play basketball in the NBA is considered, a male measuring 5 foot and 3 inches is unequal to Shaquille O'Neal. A baby born without limbs is at a significant disadvantage relative to the rest of the world's babies, and this is before the environment even has a chance to "shape" them.

Genetics abi? You do realise that our genes are result of the environment? Evolution?

You do realise that in theory, if we could tweak our dna we could make every human have specific characteristics that we want.

We all came from the same DNA....the problem is that for thousands of years, we humans moved and lived in different environment and so, there have been minor differences due to adaptation.

For instance, Africans have stronger bones because they live in hotter climates. Winter isnt good for bones

UyiIredia: @ TheBigUrban2: You failed when you started mentioning logic. You see, logic requires that you have a conscious mind and atheists (naively following neuroscientists like Sam Harris) ignore the fact that the mind of man is immaterial. They believe your mind is simply chemicals in your brain at work. Since when do mere chemicals have logic?

And the mumbo jumbo begins.

Here's how your reasoning goes:
Mind has logic capabilities, mind is immaterial therefore mind is spiritual and spiritual ultimate is your religion's god.

How about computer software can perform complex mathematical calculations, computer software is immaterial, therefore computer software is spiritual, and the ultimate spiritual is the Almighty Computer Deity.

Human mind is NOT just chemicals. Just like a computer system is NOT just chemicals.

It's like asking since when when does chemicals perform complex mathematical calculations, when referring to computers.

cyrexx:

And the mumbo jumbo begins.

Here's how your reasoning goes:
Mind has logic capabilities, mind is immaterial therefore mind is spiritual and spiritual ultimate is your religion's god.

How about computer software can perform complex mathematical calculations, computer software is immaterial, therefore computer software is spiritual, and the ultimate spiritual is the Almighty Computer Deity.

Ode! Na the processor dey do the math calculations and not the software. Computers have no sense of logic and are unconscious of what they do, that's why with them you have GIGO. This isn't the same for humans especially you. I try to nack logic into your coconut head and all that comes out is crap.

UyiIredia: Ode! Na the processor dey do the math calculations and not the software. Computers have no sense of logic and are unconscious of what they do, that's why with them you have GIGO. This isn't the same for humans especially you. I try to nack logic into your coconut head and all that comes out is crap.

I'm trying to dumb it down to your level. I never said computers have consciousness. I said they perform complex mathematical calculations. Read properly before you respond.

cyrexx: Human mind is NOT just chemicals. Just like a computer system is NOT just chemicals.

It's like asking since when when does chemicals perform complex mathematical calculations, when referring to computers.

Both the brain and computer system are made of specifically arranged chemicals. The human mind-computer analogy has many shortcomings starting from the fact that computers are unconscious things. I can break a system into pieces and lose money but try that to a human and \I get jail if not a death sentence.

UyiIredia: Ode! Na the processor dey do the math calculations and not the software. Computers have no sense of logic and are unconscious of what they do, that's why with them you have GIGO. This isn't the same for humans especially you. I try to nack logic into your coconut head and all that comes out is crap.

LMFAO.
Your analogy sucks.
Do you know anything about computer programming?

UyiIredia: Both the brain and computer system are made of specifically arranged chemicals. The human mind-computer analogy has many shortcomings starting from the fact that computers are unconscious things. I can break a system into pieces and lose money but try that to a human and \I get jail if not a death sentence.

My comparison is in their immaterial characteristics. Both are immaterial. Referring to softwares, not the physical computer, and referring to the mind, not just the brain.

UyiIredia: Both the brain and computer system are made of specifically arranged chemicals. The human mind-computer analogy has many shortcomings starting from the fact that computers are unconscious things. I can break a system into pieces and lose money but try that to a human and \I get jail if not a death sentence.

Chemicals in computer system?

TheBigUrban2:



Genetics abi? You do realise that our genes are result of the environment? Evolution?

You do realise that in theory, if we could tweak our dna we could make every human have specific characteristics that we want.

We all came from the same DNA....the problem is that for thousands of years, we humans moved and lived in different environment and so, there have been minor differences due to adaptation.

For instance, Africans have stronger bones because they live in hotter climates. Winter isnt good for bones

Before we get on with the whole nature vs nurture argument, allow me to point out that this is not the sense of which you spoke in the OP regarding the effects of the environment. You spoke more about interpersonal relationships, education and the affluence of a person's society. You also implied that inequalities are not present at birth. See below.

TheBigUrban2:
First of all, science tells us that all humans have the same basic make up, the same basic body parts and we are the same species. The differences in men mostly come from the effects of the environment.
....
The problem is that our environment, our experiences and upbringing are thing the things that make us unique. We were all foolish from the womb as babies. I am yet to see any human being that was intelligent as a baby. The inequality starts with the environment; breastfeeding as a baby, your teachings as a child, the prosperity of your society, the wealth of your parents, guardian etc.

This is all irrelevant in the end though. Nature or nuture, I suppose we can all be glad we weren't Moabites or Amalekites back when God was on his period.

cyrexx:

My comparison is in their immaterial characteristics. Both are immaterial. Referring to softwares, not the physical computer, and referring to the mind, not just the brain.

Softwares in the computer are material. They are stored in the drives of a computer as you should know.

Apatheist:
Chemicals in computer system?

SMH. Even a baby knows this. Please read up on how processors are made. Its mostly chemistry.

Apatheist:
LMFAO.
Your analogy sucks.
Do you know anything about computer programming?

Yes. Apparently, your IQ's dropped a notch. The analogy is clear. Humans are conscious and computers arent and can never be.

UyiIredia: SMH. Even a baby knows this. Please read up on how processors are made. Its mostly chemistry.

Okay.

UyiIredia: Yes. Apparently, your IQ's dropped a notch. The analogy is clear. Humans are conscious and computers arent and can never be.

People like you said that man would never fly, that man would never go to the moon, you have been proved wrong. Given time enough man can achieve.

following

MrAnony1: following

ANONY, where'd you go?

You know how religious section get so boooooring without quality posters like you.

cyrexx:

ANONY, where'd you go?

You know how religious section get so boooooring without quality posters like you.

Quality posters?


He is good...no great at sophistry.

UyiIredia: Softwares in the computer are material. They are stored in the drives of a computer as you should know.

No, you're wrong. Softwares are NOT materials that can be stored in the hard drives. They are a set of informations, instructions given to the computer processor and algorithms that do define certain activities and outcomes. They are immaterial and intangible.

Apatheist:
People like you said that man would never fly, that man would never go to the moon, you have been proved wrong. Given time enough man can achieve.

Nah. People like me are simply smart enough to know the limits of technology within natural law. Scientists dreams of time travel, resurrecting dead humans etc are hogwash. However, some (like turning lead into gold) can be achieved.