I don't believe in God, as a result i acknowledge I'm a result of a cosmic accident, and by implication I accept my life and the life of an animal are equal, neither is more precious than the other. The declaration of independence which it states "every man is created equal under God to have the liberty to pursue happiness" well i don't believe in God but i like the created equal part, but created equal by what/who? if there's no God, the rights that i hold dear are all delusions, because my life has no worth than even the tiniest organism on the planet or even the universe. I have come to a realization that if their's no mind prior to the human mind, then I determine what is moral and what's not and so do others. but sadly the world is not set up that way, I can't kill, cheat, abuse someone and get away with it. And also I can't look in the face of a killer that takes the life of someone so dear to me and say from my pov what you did is wrong but i understand that from your own pov it is right, so you're free to go. Maybe there's more to this universe then i can think to bear.

fairari022: Military personnel are covered by the U.S. Constitution, but not in exactly the same way as civilians are. While military personnel are not excluded from the rights set forth in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution grants Congress the power to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces.

As a practical matter, most civilian Constitutional rights are afforded to military personnel - although with some differences to fit the military situation. In some areas, such as right to counsel and rights (Miranda) warnings, military personnel have broader protections than those contained in the Constitution. In other areas such as search and seizure, they have reduced expectations of privacy and fewer protections.

Military appellate courts tend to interpret military law as being consistent with Constitutional protections so far as is possible.




unintelligent folks are always aggressive in their argument.

In short, you have argued that the military is still under the constitution. Imbeci.le

Again, point out where the military or airforce can circumvent the constitution

Even in this case, while the constitution grants power to the congress, it also limits that power by stating

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,...


Meaning that the congress in which you are trying to claim can circumvent the constitution to mandate a religious oath/test can not do it. The constitution forbids the congress from such


imbe.cile

fairari022: sir, with due respect, the US constitution does not in all ways apply to those under the uniform code. when you swear the oath of allegiance, in the end you must say "help me God" . i have done this before and it has no restriction to anybody. athought, after then you can choose whether or not to practice any religion.

Read the article.

In the past, an airman could opt for an alternative phrase and omit the words "so help me God," but the US Air Force changed its policy in October 2013.

www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/html USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap31-sec502.htm

to give you an example. you see the recent negotiation with the US and the Taliban with regards to sergeant bowe bergdahl release from captivity. on a normal ground the US does not negotiate with the terrorist, but the "6th line of the soldier creed" says "I'll never leave a fallen comrade". if it were to be a regular citizen like james foley and Steven sotloff who were beheaded, the US govt would have shut all doors of negotiations.

Sigh

The law requires the defense secretary to notify relevant congressional committees at least 30 days before making any transfers of prisoners, to explain the reason and to provide assurances that those released would not be in a position to reengage in activities that could threaten the United States or its interests.
Before the current law was enacted at the end of last year, the conditions were even more stringent. However, the administration and some Democrats had pressed for them to be loosened, in part to give them more flexibility to negotiate for Bergdahl’s release.

From the US constitution:

Section. 3.
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Article 3; Section 3 www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell

another example,

the regular citizen can join in a peacful protest, but it's forbidden under the uniform code of the US military.

This is not a protest, it was unconstitutional.

It's not just all about the constitution, sir.

Yes, it is.

logicboy01:


I tried to bring you out of your sheer ignorance but it seems that you enjoy your filth

You've got nothing that I can imbibe or points to substantiate your claims so who is ignorant. Your mode of approach to a debate or argument are simply embellished with insults and arrogance. So you are not a matter to reckon with or look up to for knowledge.

swezenberg:

You've got nothing that I can imbibe or points to substantiate your claims so who is ignorant. Your mode of approach to a debate or argument are simply embellished with insults and arrogance. So you are not a matter to reckon with or look up to for knowledge.

The insults are meant to jar you.

Religious nutjobs like you cant be reasoned with and so you need some emotional/psychological pain first

donpeey22: My dear! I wish the religious bigots can listen to people like you. In fact, that I go to church today is not because I believe in the existence of any god, but because I understand the socioeconomic implication of not identifying with any of the two major religious groups in Nigeria. Call it hypocrisy or whatever, no problem. Until that time when Nigerians would begin to relate with people based on their personalities and not based on their religious adherence, I choose to remain a hypocrite.

Then you're using your time uselessly. I'd not been to church since Feb...and yet I'm a christian, a follower of Christ. No one forces you to go to church... Millions don't go in Nigeria...so why being hyproticical. Wether you follow God or not, that wouldn't reduce the glory of my king.. Have a lovely week aheaf

swezenberg:
You've got nothing that I can imbibe or points to substantiate your claims so who is ignorant. Your mode of approach to a debate or argument are simply embellished with insults and arrogance. So you are not a matter to reckon with or look up to for knowledge.

logicboy01:


The insults are meant to jar you.

Religious nutjobs like you cant be reasoned with and so you need some emotional/psychological pain first

I've also watched your pattern of posts... And I agreed with the man you quoted above., they're too childish. Learn how to argue without creating enmity

Samakinr:

I've also watched your pattern of posts... And I agreed with the man you quoted above., they're too childish. Learn how to argue without creating enmity

lol.....ironically, if I didnt insult his idiocy, you wouldnt have been entertained and kept on watching my pattern.


All join.

The original pledge actually didn't include the "under God" portion, which was added in 1954. It used to read: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Now it's: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The issue here is that citizens should be free to exercise the religious beliefs or non-belief as they see fit, and the government shouldn't be advocating for or against supernatural agents. You can believe what you want regarding religion, but you don't get to co-opt the power of the state, or our shared civic institutions to gain an advantage in pushing religious based views on the rest of society, especially children who are more easily indoctrinated as a captive audience. I bring children into this because children as young as kindergarten age are taught to face the US flag and pledge their allegiance using the above words. They're essentially being told to make a pledge of allegiance to a government before even understanding what it means offer allegiance.

As for the US military, trust me they have plenty of Atheists. They simply utter the words "under God" without meaning.

EnlightenedSoul: The original pledge actually didn't include the "under God" portion, which was added in 1954. It used to read: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Now it's: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The issue here is that citizens should be free to exercise the religious beliefs or non-belief as they see fit, and the government shouldn't be advocating for or against supernatural agents. You can believe what you want regarding religion, but you don't get to co-opt the power of the state, or our shared civic institutions to gain an advantage in pushing religious based views on the rest of society, especially children who are more easily indoctrinated as a captive audience. I bring children into this because children as young as kindergarten age are taught to face the US flag and pledge their allegiance using the above words. They're essentially being told to make a pledge of allegiance to a government before even understanding what it means offer allegiance.

As for the US military, trust me they have plenty of Atheists. They simply utter the words "under God" without meaning.

It is not an issue of religious belief, but a standard procedure.

If the word GOD is in the pledge, then every American soldier must say it.

emmatok:


It is not an issue of religious belief, but a standard procedure.

If the word GOD is in the pledge, then every American soldier must say it.

It is.

They don't.

MissMeiya:

It is.

They don't.

I don't get you?

emmatok:


It is not an issue of religious belief, but a standard procedure.

How is it not an issue of religious belief?

If the word GOD is in the pledge, then every American soldier must say it.

Why must they?

EnlightenedSoul: The original pledge actually didn't include the "under God" portion, which was added in 1954. It used to read: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Now it's: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The issue here is that citizens should be free to exercise the religious beliefs or non-belief as they see fit, and the government shouldn't be advocating for or against supernatural agents. You can believe what you want regarding religion, but you don't get to co-opt the power of the state, or our shared civic institutions to gain an advantage in pushing religious based views on the rest of society, especially children who are more easily indoctrinated as a captive audience. I bring children into this because children as young as kindergarten age are taught to face the US flag and pledge their allegiance using the above words. They're essentially being told to make a pledge of allegiance to a government before even understanding what it means offer allegiance.

As for the US military, trust me they have plenty of Atheists. They simply utter the words "under God" without meaning.

I agree with all you have said. All these are contained in the link I provided previously. My argument is this, if you vote people to power in a democratic setting, then it is by the voice of the majority which is binding on all citizens. So for the government to have included this it must have passed through their legal system. And it must have been approved by all arms of Government. Therefore it is binding on the citizen. The minority can not change it. As for whether some citizen should be excempted, I think USAF must have read this in and out before asking the personnel to withdraw from the military.

TrollMan:


God Bless America...

In God we trust...

This is just an outcrop to remind you that America is a religious state and as such your argument is void.. AKA Baseless.

You have no point to prove your point.

I prefer to lavish my time in researching about why birds fly or why the grass is green to this..

yes i agree with you,the founding fathers of America(george washington and the likes)all believed in the existence of God.Therefore America was built on this basis.Its just that Nigeians dont read,hence the presence of ignorant comments!!!

I think I heard Obama's speech on fighting ISIS or what are they called and at the end, he said God bless the United States of America. I think the atheists should have taken him up on this on several occasions being the president of America. Or maybe I'm not getting something right. I am not arguing for "So help me God" anyway. Also when did America begin to use "In God we trust" in their currency and why? If anyone here says America is not a religious country, then you are a joker and being sentimental. Everybody knows America tends more to Christianity. Its not something to really argue. Or what do you think is the grudge Islamic militants have with America?
I do not know but if it has been the usual practice embedded in a law that when you are enlisting in the American Airforce, you must say " So help me God" then I dont think anybody should have a problem with it. Rather, don't join...Simple!

yinkabillion: yes i agree with you,the founding fathers of America(george washington and the likes)all believed in the existence of God.Therefore America was built on this basis.Its just that Nigeians dont read,hence the presence of ignorant comments!!!

Misinformation. Quite a few founding father's were Christian, yes, but this country was founded as a Secular Republic, and not as a Christian nation.

For instance, while president in 1802, Jefferson wrote:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church and State ... "

Fast forward 1954, "under God" is placed in the pledge of allegiance. A few years later in 1957, a law is passed that would make printing "In God We Trust" mandatory on US currency.

swezenberg:

I agree with all you have said. All these are contained in the link I provided previously. My argument is this, if you vote people to power in a democratic setting, then it is by the voice of the majority which is binding on all citizens. So for the government to have included this it must have passed through their legal system. And it must have been approved by all arms of Government. Therefore it is binding on the citizen. The minority can not change it. As for whether some citizen should be excempted, I think USAF must have read this in and out before asking the personnel to withdraw from the military.

You're not wrong. It may be difficult to overturn at this point, but it's not supposed to be there in the first place. Not everyone believes in the Christian God (or in this case, any God at all).

They should return to the old format and allow the airman to omit as is his right.

RayMcBlue:


-You were at a train station and the train was running late.
-A very attractive woman was sitting beside you reading a religious magazine.
-You struck up a conversation with her.
-But somehow, she cleverly maneuvered the conversation into a sermon.
-You tried to tell her that you don't believe in God, but she persisted.
-You know her sermons to you were efforts in futility, so you humoured her and pretended to listen, maybe in the interest of peace, or maybe you were just being polite.
-The train finally arrived,
-Here's your chance! You swiftly disappeared through it's doors without so much as a "Goodbye." The end.

That's a fine analogy on how to handle a delicate situation without relegating to a bìtchy persona.

@the bold, a lot of people don't know this, but American version of Democracy has a religious past. America’s Founding Fathers believed that Liberty, freedom and religion were inseparable. True story.

Majority of atheist like myself know and accept this, since - apart from a few public religious recitations here and there, many of which are getting amended as we speak - secularism promotes liberty and freedom.

Quit playing the victim cards already. Atheists are not victims and can never be. I'm an atheist living in a secular community and I don't feel threatened. If I don't feel threatened, then why should you?

...Unless, you live in Iraq.

what are you smoking my good clown. where do you see me playing the victim? perhaps you think my concern relates only to atheists, in which case I have to point out that's rather foolish for a variety of reasons. err, even thinking xtians would be worried sef, considering denominations. pls , slowly in case its much for you, think on why I mention islam.

and even if my concern was atheists only....

I've seen a lot of sillyness on these boards, and I must say this is one of the finest displays on show. your analogy was really, really....well.... nothing whatsoever at all like the situation on ground. you for instance ignore that the woman is in a position of power, and amongst many other things, could prevent you from reaching your destination simply because you don't share her delusions.. I now expect you to tell me about your boat trip to the moon.

and do you speak of the founding fathers, those that broke a limb in order to explicitly separate church and state? who well acknowledged, who well know that theirs is a society built argely by people fleeing religious persecution?? featuring people like Jefferson, who despite living in that age, with all the superstition and ignorance that entails, well went out of his way to print a version of the bible that did not feature anything supernatural?

which majority atheists do you speak of sef? what is wrong with you?

nah, never mind.. my bahdt

Orikinla: America is God's own country.
And not an atheists country.
The atheist should accept God or look for an atheists air force to join.

same way the north is a Muslim territory and all Christians there should find somewhere else to live??..... how are you different from bokoharam?

logicboy01:


lol.....ironically, if I didnt insult his idiocy, you wouldnt have been entertained and kept on watching my pattern.


All join.

Alright then, if that's how far your sense of reasoning can go

MissMeiya: Watching Nigerians insist on points of American history is... strange.

They teach us US history from the time we enter primary school. I even took Advanced Placement US Government & Politics and AP US History in high school, but I am learning new things on this thread. *popcorn*

Disclaimer: the last part was sarcasm.

[quote author=wiegraf]

what are you smoking my good clown. where do you see me playing the victim? perhaps you think my concern relates only to atheists, in which case I have to point out that's rather foolish for a variety of reasons. err, even thinking xtians would be worried sef, considering denominations. pls , slowly in case its much for you, think on why I mention islam.

and even if my concern was atheists only....

I've seen a lot of sillyness on these boards, and I must say this is one of the finest displays on show. [qouote]
I can summarize this your post saying all other opinion are 'silly' except your very own. Attack the other person's fact not the person self

EnlightenedSoul:

Misinformation. Quite a few founding father's were Christian, yes, but this country was founded as a Secular Republic, and not as a Christian nation.

For instance, while president in 1802, Jefferson wrote:

Fast forward 1954, "under God" is placed in the pledge of allegiance. A few years later in 1957, a law is passed that would make printing "In God We Trust" mandatory on US currency.

....Bro ur thinking is shallow!!when we say God,do we necessarily refer to christians alone?It basically means belief in a supreme being.Moslems,freemasons,budhists etc all believe in 'God'.You need to understand that the word God here is metaphorical,meaning a supreme or pre existing force and not relating to any religion,so to speak.Now,is Nigeria not a secular republic too?but 'o God of creation is written in the first line of the 2nd version of our National anthem.Now if i am a military man and we are on parade and that national anthem is being played as we see very often,am i permitted not to recite the National Anthem of a country i swore my loyalty too?Think bro......and think objectively...Read the lost symbol by Dan Brown for better clarification of the word 'GOD' and stop looking @ life from the religious angle alone cos this only brings about sectionalism and chaos in a world that is very complex yet simple.Is Nigeria a christian nation?How come God is written in our anthem?Nigerians really need to get knowledge an for those who have,they need to start applying it

thank you very much!!!!

kayjegs: I think I heard Obama's speech on fighting ISIS or what are they called and at the end, he said God bless the United States of America. I think the atheists should have taken him up on this on several occasions being the president of America. Or maybe I'm not getting something right. I am not arguing for "So help me God" anyway. Also when did America begin to use "In God we trust" in their currency and why? If anyone here says America is not a religious country, then you are a joker and being sentimental. Everybody knows America tends more to Christianity. Its not something to really argue. Or what do you think is the grudge Islamic militants have with America?
I do not know but if it has been the usual practice embedded in a law that when you are enlisting in the American Airforce, you must say " So help me God" then I dont think anybody should have a problem with it. Rather, don't join...Simple!

Everyone trust that there is God and if you see there is no one atheist practically because in either way he trust the God and that's why he tries not to trust him.

musKeeto:

gay troll alert!!

If you werent such a stalker, you would have known that the post you quoted was edited from the original.

MizMyColi: The worst set of "Christians" to encounter are the fundamentalist kind.

Why force a person to do something when you know that if roles were reversed, you'd rather die than do it.

Same goes for the Atheist boss who forbids employees from identifying with their God(s)

Whatever happened to CHOICE?!

Why won't we just give everyone grace, no matter where they're at in this journey of life.

I APPLAUD YOUR LEVEL OF RATIONALITY, BUT DON'T YOU THINK THEY CAN BE HELPED TO SEE REASONS?

EnlightenedSoul:

How is it not an issue of religious belief?



Why must they?

Are you saying a national pledge is not binding on her citizens due to his/her religious believe?

The ARMED FORCES are supposed to be the most patriotic people in any Nation, and if they start disobeying the country's rule its Treason.

The best thing to do is push the politician to amend the laws by removing the word GOD, and not disobeying law due to personal sentiments.

Remember we use to have O GOD CREATIONS but now the have ARISE O COMPATRIOTS.

yinkabillion: ....Bro ur thinking is shallow!!when we say God,do we necessarily refer to christians alone?It basically means belief in a supreme being.Moslems,freemasons,budhists etc all believe in 'God'.You need to understand that the word God here is metaphorical,meaning a supreme or pre existing force and not relating to any religion,so to speak.Now,is Nigeria not a secular republic too?but 'o God of creation is written in the first line of the 2nd version of our National anthem.Now if i am a military man and we are on parade and that national anthem is being played as we see very often,am i permitted not to recite the National Anthem of a country i swore my loyalty too?Think bro......and think objectively...Read the lost symbol by Dan Brown for better clarification of the word 'GOD' and stop looking @ life from the religious angle alone cos this only brings about sectionalism and chaos in a world that is very complex yet simple.Is Nigeria a christian nation?How come God is written in our anthem?Nigerians really need to get knowledge an for those who have,they need to start applying it

So if it read "under Allah", you wouldn't have a different opinion? Or "under Buddha"?

I assume you believe in God. Why are you so insistent on God being forcibly, and therefore falsely, invoked by people who do not believe in him?

emmatok:

Are you saying a national pledge is not binding on her citizens due to his/her religious believe?

The ARMED FORCES are supposed to be the most patriotic people in any Nation, and if they start disobeying the country's rule its Treason.

The best thing to do is push the politician to amend the laws by removing the word GOD, and not disobeying law due to personal sentiments.

Remember we use to have O GOD CREATIONS but now the have ARISE O COMPATRIOTS.

Those "personal sentiments" are valid. They infringe on his rights. This is a man who has served happily under the old pledge. His patriotism isn't in question here.

Let's agree to disagree..