DieeDiee:


Correct. When a person dies the body organs do not die at the same time. There are many people known to have woken up from "death" in the morgue in the fridge.

am not talking about the body that is dead... am talking about the supposedly spirit that leaves the body bro...

Pr0ton:


Please explain the one in bold

Dude you have me on the floor -- LOL!

johnydon22:

am not talking about the body that is dead... am talking about the supposedly spirit that leaves the body bro...

How do you know the spirit left? Anyway, the point is although the person "died" they never really died which is why they "come back".

DieeDiee:


How do you know the spirit left? Anyway, the point is although the person "died" they never really died which is why they "come back".

thats exactly what am implying.... their is nothing like spirits..

Pr0ton:


Seriouly What is death bro?

Too lazy to go into detail but once read a medical article which explained death process and offered it as an explanation for NDE. Basically in a hospital you are pronounced death when your heart stops beating but just because the heart stopped does not mean the brain has and it is the brain that controls the body. The heart pumps oxygen to the brain, oxygen helps the brain function. Some people have been known to give birth after death or found in the fridge in positions that looked like they were eating themselves (it is assumed they were hungry) or were trying to get out.

DieeDiee:


Too lazy to go into detail but once read a medical article which explained death process and offered it as an explanation for NDE. Basically in a hospital you are pronounced death when your heart stops beating but just because the heart stopped does not mean the brain has and it is the brain that controls the body. The heart pumps oxygen to the brain, oxygen helps the brain function. Some people have been known to give birth after death or found in the fridge in positions that looked like they were eating themselves (it is assumed they were hungry) or were trying to get out.

Hey bro. Death is simply the termination of life. If they can still be active after "death" then they aint really dead, just as the name implies Near Death Experience

Pr0ton:


Hey bro. Death is simply the termination of life. If they can still be active after "death" then they aint really dead, just as the name implies Near Death Experience

There is no one big death. When a person dies they go through a series of small deaths. Everything has to die.

This is not the article but this will explain to you and give you an idea of how a person dies www.medicaldaily.com/what-forensic-scientist-doesnt-tell-you-7-postmortem-responses-dead-body-314404

DieeDiee:


There is no one big death. When a person dies they go through a series of small deaths. Everything has to die.

A series of small deaths? Everything has to die "although the person "died" they never really "died" which is why they came back to life"


Do you even understand yourself?

Pr0ton:


Chai.. You are a disgrace to Christianity!

" The soul that sins shall die " Ezekiel 18:20

Sorry, you do not understand the verse you quoted and I didn't expect you to. If you were once a Christian, then the reason why you abandoned the faith is now apparent.

Unbias:

Sorry, you do not understand the verse you quoted and I didn't expect you to.

Oh. Help me twist that please. Maybe the type of soul spoken of there is different. It is actually written in small letters. No... It's Hebrew meaning is ambiguous. Well, maybe unbelievers' souls. Blah blah

If you were once a Christian, then the reason why you abandoned the faith is now apparent.

Yeah.. Apparent!

Pr0ton:


A series of small deaths? Everything has to die "although the person "died" they never really "died" which is why they came back to life"


Do you even understand yourself?

I'm so sorry but unfortunately I don't have patience for slow mentality. As you were...

johnydon22:

And what about animals, they have a soul too?..... And this people coming back to life after death, how sure are u that they were dead not just in a coma, how did they remember all they saw in the spirit world.. our brain is responsible for rememberng things and brain is a product of our flesh, so spirits have brains too? flesh? joysticks? nose? mouth? heart, lungs?

Southampton University scientists have found evidence that awareness can continue for at least several minutes after clinical death which was previously thought impossible

Death is a depressingly inevitable consequence of life, but now scientists believe they may have found some light at the end of the tunnel.

The largest ever medical study into near-death and out-of-body experiences has discovered that some awareness may continue even after the brain has shut down completely.

It is a controversial subject which has, until recently, been treated with widespread scepticism.

But scientists at the University of Southampton have spent four years examining more than 2,000 people who suffered cardiac arrests at 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria.

And they found that nearly 40 per cent of people who survived described some kind of ‘awareness’ during the time when they were clinically dead before their hearts were restarted.

One man even recalled leaving his body entirely and watching his resuscitation from the corner of the room.

Despite being unconscious and ‘dead’ for three minutes, the 57-year-old social worker from Southampton, recounted the actions of the nursing staff in detail and described the sound of the machines.

“We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating,” said Dr Sam Parnia, a former research fellow at Southampton University, now at the State University of New York, who led the study.

“But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes into the period when the heart wasn’t beating, even though the brain typically shuts down within 20-30 seconds after the heart has stopped.

“The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for.

“He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.”
...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11144442/First-hint-of-life-after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study.html

So how was the man able to describe everything that happened perfectly while his eyes were closed, his heart and brain has shut down and he was no longer conscious and in fact, confirmed dead for three minutes?

About 8 years ago in a northcentral state in Nigeria, a woman who had been confirmed dead for about 18 hours woke up and narrated her out-of-body experience. Many said she was either hallucinating or narrating illusions. I know you don't believe too.

The example above is just one out of thousands of such experience and you can research on this subject to put yourself straight.
Meanwhile I would like to recommend this book for you, 'The Search for God and Afterlife in the Age of Science' by Dr. Ken R. Vincent.

Pr0ton:


Oh. Help me twist that please. Maybe the type of soul spoken of there is different. It is actually written in small letters. No... It's Hebrew meaning is ambiguous. Well, maybe unbelievers' souls. Blah blah




Yeah.. Apparent!

No need to twist anything, and its none of your guesses. And yeah... the reason you left Christianity is Apparent/Obvious.

davien:
Really now?...so how do you reconcile the ADE of christians who saw "allah"?

That simply affirms my arguement- there is life after death. Physical death shuts down your entire body/system and not your soul/spirit.

Do they actually claim they saw allah? Pls share their ADE narations.

Unbias:

That simply affirms my arguement- there is life after death. Physical death shuts down your entire body/system and not your soul/spirit.

Do they actually claim they saw allah? Pls share their ADE narations.

I believe you have a device to go look for the narratives.....and is subjective opinion all you need to conclude on an issue?...or are you only concerned with the ones that support your belief?

davien:
I believe you have a device to go look for the narratives.....and is subjective opinion all you need to conclude on an issue?...or are you only concerned with the ones that support your belief?

The onus is on you to back your claim with proof of such ADE.

Unbias:

The onus is on you to back your claim with proof of such ADE.

Know the difference between an assertion and a citation...I cited ADE's of christians who claim to have experienced "allah"(hence I always use quotes and skeptical language), you on the otherhand believe in ADE's,so whom is to give proof here if not you,the believer of ADE's?
Here is a re-affirmation of your stance below

That simply affirms my arguement- there is life after death.

davien:
Know the difference between an assertion and a citation...I cited ADE's of christians who claim to have experienced "allah"(hence I always use quotes and skeptical language), you on the otherhand believe in ADE's,so whom is to give proof here if not you,the believer of ADE's?
Here is a re-affirmation of your stance below

That's funny you know. You cited an example that you are not sure of and expect anothet to prove it for you. Gentleman, its either you cite what you are sure of with reference/source or an example that has to do with your personal experience. You wouldn't dare make mere suppositions in academic research.


I have given an example as a proof of ADE with the source above. Read my response to johnydon22. There are other thousands of after death experiences but definitely not of those Christians who claim they saw Allah. So please prove your statement:

davien:
Really now?...so how do you reconcile the ADE of christians who saw "allah"?

Unbias:

That's funny you know. You cited an example that you are not sure of and expect anothet to prove it for you.

I asked a follow-up question which you want to meander around
1.You believe in ADE's
2.How do you reconcile others who "saw" different things?
I don't have to believe before asking questions...
An analogy is to ask a believer of santa how he gets into chimneys,i don't have to suddenly start believing in santa to ask follow-up questions to the person making the positive...

Gentleman, its either you cite what you are sure of with reference/source or an example that has to do with your personal experience. You wouldn't dare make mere suppositions in academic research.

look above, your meandering won't work here....so are you going to prove the positive you made or back out on your word(like the usual theist)

I have given an example as a proof of ADE with the source above. Read my response to johnydon22. There are other thousands of after death experiences but definitely not of those Christians who claim they saw Allah.

your "proof"of ADE is not substantial neither is it even confirmational of what you believe goes on after death....and you conglumerated several unknown sources to serve as your proof,like the one below

About 8 years ago in a northcentral state in Nigeria, a woman who
had been confirmed dead for about 18 hours woke up and narrated
her out-of-body experience. Many said she was either hallucinating
or narrating illusions. I know you don't believe too.

And estimations done of people who claim this phenomenon do not experience the all sensory inputs and appear to be residual brain activity....
And where I found the source for the conglumerated article was
http://www.medicalworldnigeria.com/2014/10/first-hint-of-lsquo-life-after-death-rsquo-in-biggest-study
Which explains why you did not source it...

So please prove your statement:

I have nothing to prove as I am only making a follow-up question, perhaps you aren't versed in epistemology...

onetrack:


Sounds like Yahweh is evil. All he has to do is show himself to me and I will believe.

sometimes ago a christian in america said when he died he saw allah.
do you bliv him?

First, you seem not to understand that your response

davien:
Really now?...so how do you reconcile the ADE of christians who saw "allah"?

was affirmative.
This is a clear indication that you've either heard or read ADE of christians who saw allah and most likely believed. Therefore giving the source of such an example shouldn't be a hard nut to crack for you.

I understand you perfectly and know what you are driving at to have asked such a question. Unfortunately that's not how to ask a follow up question and hence, your subsequent arguements in its defence is defeated. I might consider attempting your question if correctly rephrased.

davien:
I asked a follow-up question which you want to meander around
1.You believe in ADE's
2.How do you reconcile others who "saw" different things?
I don't have to believe before asking questions...
An analogy is to ask a believer of santa how he gets into chimneys,i don't have to suddenly start believing in santa to ask follow-up questions to the person making the positive...
look above, your meandering won't work here....so are you going to prove the positive you made or back out on your word(like the usual theist)
your "proof"of ADE is not substantial neither is it even confirmational of what you believe goes on after death....and you conglumerated several unknown sources to serve as your proof,like the one below
And estimations done of people who claim this phenomenon do not experience the all sensory inputs and appear to be residual brain activity....
And where I found the source for the conglumerated article was
http://www.medicalworldnigeria.com/2014/10/first-hint-of-lsquo-life-after-death-rsquo-in-biggest-study
Which explains why you did not source it...
I have nothing to prove as I am only making a follow-up question, perhaps you aren't versed in epistemology...

Epistemology... Dude, educate me on how it relates to our discussion on ADE so far.

Unbias:
First, you seem not to understand that your response was affirmative.

No it wasn't.... I never had said I believed like you did(quoted below)...

That simply affirms my arguement- there is life after death.

This is a clear indication that you've either heard or read ADE of christians who saw allah and most likely believed. -Therefore giving the source of such an example shouldn't be a hard nut to crack for you.

How does it escape you that I don't have to believe in a claim before proceeding to ask follow-up questions....
And there is no shortage of sources that cite the claim of this...I'll pick this citation

I understand you perfectly and know what you are driving at to have asked such a question.

Sadly you don't understand me but somehow think you do

Unfortunately that's not how to ask a follow up question and hence, your subsequent arguements in its defence is defeated. I might consider attempting your question if correctly rephrased.

This is an empty refutation because you have not pointed out any flaw that is supposedly in my question,but instead you just affirm it defeated...that's dishonest don't you think?
And it's no surprising you'd do that, seeing the fact that you're meandering away from proving you positive position.
You can see that in every refutation I've made your folly is always pointed out plainly..

Epistemology... Dude, educate me on how it relates to our discussion on ADE so far.

Your relaxed attitude toward your ignorance of the relevance of epistemology in this and any discussion.
Epistemology is relevant so as to know truth from falsehoods, or positions can also be discussed in light...
That was why when you falsely said I needed to "prove" my statement I told you, you have no knowledge of epistemology because I have made no positive claim...

Mavrick2012:
sometimes ago a christian in america said when he died he saw allah.
do you bliv him?

Not at all. There are many people who claim to be Jesus. I don't believe them either. They have mental problems.

davien:
No it wasn't.... I never had said I believed like you did(quoted below)...


How does it escape you that I don't have to believe in a claim before proceeding to ask follow-up questions....
And there is no shortage of sources that cite the claim of this...I'll pick this citation
Sadly you don't understand me but somehow think you do
This is an empty refutation because you have not pointed out any flaw that is supposedly in my question,but instead you just affirm it defeated...that's dishonest don't you think?
And it's no surprising you'd do that, seeing the fact that you're meandering away from proving you positive position.
You can see that in every refutation I've made your folly is always pointed out plainly..
Your relaxed attitude toward your ignorance of the relevance of epistemology in this and any discussion.
Epistemology is relevant so as to know truth from falsehoods, or positions can also be discussed in light...
That was why when you falsely said I needed to "prove" my statement I told you, you have no knowledge of epistemology because I have made no positive claim...

If by now you have not realized your statement was affirmative, then something is wrong. Pls learn to admit mistakes, no one knows it all. Let any great mind analyze your question then you would realize your folly.

My candid advice, learn to ask proper questions that will not put you in tight corner so you wouldn't have to twist facts.

Your comment on epistemology as it relates to our discussion on ADE is really shallow especially for someone thought to be versed in it. And yet you forced it into the discussion when its almost unecessary.

Unbias:

If by now you have not realized your statement was affirmative, then something is wrong. Pls learn to admit mistakes, no one knows it all. Let any great mind analyze your question then you would realize your folly.

My candid advice, learn to ask proper questions that will not put you in tight corner so you wouldn't have to twist facts.

Your comment on epistemology as it relates to our discussion on ADE is really shallow especially for someone thought to be versed in it. And yet you forced it into the discussion when its almost unecessary.

This is quite pitiful and ironic....when a follow-up question cannot even be understood and one who claimed a positive is running away from proving the claim and lying at the same time....

I believe everyone who can follow-up on this discussion should know who's lying and trying to run away from proving the positive(your quote below)

there is life after death.

And again it's ironic that you had no knowledge why epistemology was relevant in your below quote

Epistemology... Dude, educate me on how it relates to our
discussion on ADE so far.

Then suddenly(when you saw your folly)you now claimed this..

And yet you forced it into the discussion when its almost
unecessary.

There is a big disconnect in all your discussions and you also fail to grasp elementary things..If anyone is to learn to admit mistakes it would be you and another advice would be to go and enlist in a school of thought so that you'd know who has a burden of proof in a discussion and what a positive statement is...

davien:
This is quite pitiful and ironic....when a follow-up question cannot even be understood and one who claimed a positive is running away from proving the claim and lying at the same time....

I believe everyone who can follow-up on this discussion should know who's lying and trying to run away from proving the positive(your quote below)

And again it's ironic that you had no knowledge why epistemology was relevant in your below quote



Then suddenly(when you saw your folly)you now claimed this..


There is a big disconnect in all your discussions and you also fail to grasp elementary things..If anyone is to learn to admit mistakes it would be you and another advice would be to go and enlist in a school of thought so that you'd know who has a burden of proof in a discussion and what a positive statement is...

I can see you are bent on claiming to have asked a follow up question when its unlikely that you have the slightest idea of the implication of framing questions in such manner.

Suprisingly after realizing you made an affirmative statement:

davien:
Really now?...so how do you reconcile the ADE of christians who saw "allah"?

, you no longer want me to reconcile the ADE of christians who saw allah but to prove there is life after death.

To believe in life after death presently, its either you experience it personally or believe the reports of many who have had the experience after they have been medically confirmed dead or based on religion or culture. I have referred you to an example cited as proof in a scientific study of near death and out-of-body experiences but I doubt you read it, or maybe comprehension is the challenge.

I'm not obliged to prove the reality of ADE to you because you asked for a different thing which you are now trying hard to turn around.

davien:
Really now?...so how do you reconcile the ADE of christians who saw "allah"?

Honestly when you first mentioned epistemology I thought you were a philosopher. But after your stranded comment on its relevance to our subject of discussion, I knew you are not even sound or competent enough to have invited 'epistemology' and that's the reason I said its almost unecessary.

Unbias:


I can see you are bent on claiming to have asked a follow up question when its unlikely that you have the slightest idea of the implication of framing questions in such manner.

Suprisingly after realizing you made an affirmative statement:, you no longer want me to reconcile the ADE of christians who saw allah but to prove there is life after death.

To believe in life after death presently, its either you experience it personally or believe the reports of many who have had the experience after they have been medically confirmed dead or based on religion or culture. I have referred you to an example cited as proof in a scientific study of near death and out-of-body experiences but I doubt you read it, or maybe comprehension is the challenge.

I'm not obliged to prove the reality of ADE to you because you asked for a different thing which you are now trying hard to turn around.

Honestly when you first mentioned epistemology I thought you were a philosopher. But after your stranded comment on its relevance to our subject of discussion, I knew you are not even sound or competent enough to have invited 'epistemology' and that's the reason I said its almost unecessary.

I'll leave it to everyone to judge who's been meandering from a burden of proof...and you are merely re-copying my questions and repeating them....

davien:
Then suddenly(when you saw your folly)you now claimed this..

you then copied it back to me

Unbias:
Suprisingly after realizing you made an affirmative statement:

For someone who has the username "Unbias" you are very dishonest and are reminiscent of a bloke who'd repeat back what he doesn't understand.. smh...a pity indeed

davien:
I'll leave it to everyone to judge who's been meandering from a burden of proof...and you are merely re-copying my questions and repeating them....



you then copied it back to me



For someone who has the username "Unbias" you are very dishonest and are reminiscent of a bloke who'd repeat back what he doesn't understand.. smh...a pity indeed

Your lenses are shut to your errors and you think you have the monopoly of approach to have accused me wrongly of repeating and copying you while I have only opened your ignorant eyes to behold the lapse of your 'follow up' question.

Your arguement lacks profundity and I wouldn't want us to start trading insults.

DieeDiee:


Correct. When a person dies the body organs do not die at the same time. There are many people known to have woken up from "death" in the morgue in the fridge.

do you blv an american that died and saw allah?

Mavrick2012:
do you blv an american that died and saw allah?

Haven't heard about that story and I don't believe there's a God/Allah/Yaweh etc.

Mavrick2012:
do you blv an american that died and saw allah?

Sorry but I haven't heard about that story and I don't believe there's a God/Allah/Yaweh etc.