pickabeau1:


Can i get the link to this thread

WinsomeX:

You can't o. It went with Seun Tsunami. But another one has been made that is much better coordinated: see
www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents

mbaemeka:


You still don't get it. 'Them all' referred to the Leaders I.e Silas and Barnabas as well as other Chief men from James. Period.

Image123:


Calling anyone obtuse or negro is not cool, just in case you don't know. You don't even need to be a christian to know this. Remove the log in your eyes instead of intensifying vain efforts trying to condemn others.

WinsomeX:


Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

WHO IS "THEM ALL"?

This should not be difficult to decipher from the scriptures above.

The contention is that "them all" are only leaders. But is this what that scripture says? That scripture enumerate a number of individuals, verses:

11: Peter, Paul

12: Peter, James, Jews from Jerusalem, Gentiles

13: Peter, Jews in Antioch, Barnabas

14: Paul, Peter, Jews, Gentiles

15: We: Peter and Paul, Jews and Gentiles.

Of all listed above only James was not present. It is therefore safe to say that "them all" will include

Peter, Jews in Antioch and Jews from Jerusalem, Barnabas, and Gentiles, apart from Paul doing the rebuking. All in Antioch.

There is no evidence here that Paul did it before elders alone.

The fact also that this incidence is "published" in an epistle to Galatia, a very large Roman region, shows that Paul never intended it to be a private rebuke.

Kenny4lyfe:


Can you please provice the version of your Galatians 2:11 please?

mbaemeka:


Paul wasn't publishing anyone's error to anybody let alone his church in Galatia. The Church in Galatia were having a similar issue which was in the same vein instigated by the same Brother James from Jerusalem (or his people). The body of Christ at the point revered James so much and many allude this to the fact that he was Jesus' brother. So when the Galatian church complained to Paul that a "Higher authority" said circumcision was required for Gentiles to truly be saved Paul had to refer them to a similar instance when he had to correct Peter (one whom Jews also revered). Merely gleaming through the Book of Galatians you would see Paul making statements like "those who seemed to be Pillars" and so on adding nothing to his message as he got his from Jesus himself.

So Paul correcting Peter was an example he sited in trying to show the Gentiles that he knew more about the Gentile salvation than the so called "pillars". How again does this compare with the idiocy that some of you employ? Especially when none of you 'Pastor' any church or lead any followership whatsoever and instead of taking cue from the lord himself you raise bible portions that you barely understand to support such folly.

WinsomeX:


King James Version. Will include it there now.

I remember this "them all" issue was put to rest in that WoF thread you were referring to back in the days when you were drummaboy.
So why digging it up now?

nannymcphee:


https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/

WinsomeX:

You can't o. It went with Seun Tsunami. But another one has been made that is much better coordinated: see
www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents

mbaemeka:


You still don't get it. 'Them all' referred to the Leaders I.e Silas and Barnabas as well as other Chief men from James. Period.

WinsomeX:


You can't o. It went with Seun Tsunami. But another one has been made that is much better coordinated: see

www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents

vooks:

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
mbaemeka, I charge you to think
1. From verse 14, the THEY THAT WALKED NOT UPRIGHTLY are the THEM ALL
2. Verse 13 tells you what they did; they WITHDREW and separated themselves from the Gentiles just like Peter. This means they were eating with the Gentiles and then they stopped
3. If the visiting Jews ate with the Gentiles and Peter ate with the Gentiles,then what freaked him?
Verse 12 is mighty clear; it is the visiting Jews that prompted Peter to withdraw

mbaemeka:


See how misplaced the strawman employed is. As though the import of my post was in addressing who gave what first. And again, I am not running away from anything. I just don't see the reason why all the 1000 threads on tithing didn't make you lot come to the conclusion that another man's liberty should not affect your own conscience. I don't for example, see how, me that gives my own tithe ended up being a thief and a liar to you. The same you that claimed Melchizedek needed tithes for his walk on earth, that Jesus didn't pay tithes while on earth and how that Isaac didn't pay tithes yet you can not explain how Jacob learned to do it if, GrandPa Abraham did it only once.

pickabeau1:

Can i get the link to this thread

nannymcphee:

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/

WinsomeX:

You can't o. It went with Seun Tsunami. But another one has been made that is much better coordinated: see

www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents

pickabeau1:

Thanks...I actually had been following the thread but not so much
Will take my time

vooks:
[b]
12 For before that certain came from James, he (i.e Peter) did eat with the Gentiles: but when they (i.e Jewish leaders from James) were come, he (Peter) withdrew and separated himself, fearing them (Jewish leaders from James) which were of the circumcision-crew

13 And the other Jews (that was with Peter) dissembled likewise with him (Peter); insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I (i.e Paul) saw that they (Peter and the Jewish circumcision clique) walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I (Paul) said unto Peter before them all (i.e all the Jewish circumcision leaders association chaired by James) , If thou, being a Jew (notice paul was specific here), livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?[/b]

Fixed
So what's the fuss all about again?

Seun:
By Seun's Tsunami you mean when hackers hacked my server and deleted our data. Why not call it Hacker's Tsunami instead of "Seun's"?

vooks:
If Paul telling Galatians that Peter erred and he corrected him publicly is not publishing it, then I don't know what is.

See after the epistle was read, they knew Peter succumbed to his fears of the Circumcision and behaved hypocritically. They knew the error,consequences, the erring apostle and the correcting apostle. I may also add that had he not described this incidence, they would not have known about it

christemmbassey:
was Abraham an Igboman?

Kenny4lyfe:


Fixed
So what's the fuss all about again?

mbaemeka:


Knowing about the incidence was not Paul's intention. Someone says to Paul "James said without circumcision we Gentiles are not truly saved". Paul says "thats wrong no matter who says that. In fact while I was in Antioch I had to correct Peter infront of the other leaders when he suggested the same thing. This is not what the Lord taught me". Paul is clearly telling them to disregard the circumcision debate. Period.

Please drop the shenanigans. Are you insinuating that AFTER the Jerusalem Council James still held onto circumcision?
Paul is saying Peter fell into the Torah Error and I did not spare him so please drop it.
The intentions is debate for another day/year/century, we are ANALYZING a public rebuke of an erring apostle

And also when you say 'publicly' it depends on what you mean. When James told Paul about forbidding meat sacrificed to idols, he said it in 'public' I.e to the hearing of all the other leaders in the meeting. But he didn't say it publicly to the hearing of 'floor members' of the new Christian faith.

There are just some things you don't say in front of babes.
One thing is certain, Paul did not have a 'private' session with Peter over the matter. I will leave you to your imagination as you try to conjure and analyze the spirituality of THEM ALL, just remember that THEM ALL fell into the same hypocrisy

The same attitude you demonstrate is why sexua.l abuse in Catholic church persist(ed) for decades

mbaemeka:


Was he a Jew?

mbaemeka:


What does this have to do with anything I have said? I don't know why you are overlooking the very obvious facts again.

1. In vs 12 Peter withdrew himself fearing THEM.
2. The THEM joined him and acted like hypocrites.
3. Barnabas joined THEM as well as few other Jews that hung around Paul (all leaders).
4. Paul corrected Peter infront of THEM ALL because Peter was like you said the 'Chief culprit'.

Do you get it now? The THEM referred to the CHIEF MEN that came from James as well as Barnabas and a few other Jews- all leaders.

Gombs:


Some folks obviously have comprehension and mathematical problems. You are a millionaire! Dear Lord Jesus!

You lot are hard to please. If I wear an expensive suit like 520k or so, you lot would complain, If I wear N250 shirt, una go complain, if I don't wear, you still will. Now, you are a millionaire, thank God. If I had said so, I'd have been boasting like your fellow band of misfits like to say.

If I had said "I got 9 clothing items for 800, 000k, your ilks would:

1. Call me a liar
2. Call me proud and boastful
3. Call me extravagant and that poor folks are everywhere
4. Etc

You would even say "Jesus was poor, he wore clothes Herod dashed him" "Paul bla bla bla" "Wofist are bla bla bla, they are not contended at all"
For eg a pastor bought a dog for$16, 000, alot of you guys came here and cried foul, as if you will tell him how to spend his money, of course the idea you lot has was that he uses church funds, if he has a dog of $2, you lot would still call him poor, and cheap. You just called yourself a millionaire, yet ... let me just be quiet.

I said I got clothing items worth 50k for 3k (miscellaneous expenses) . You folks said

1. Cheap
2. Okirika
3 etc

If I had said "I got 9 clothing items for 1000" you hypocrites would bellow. See you saying you wont wear a $2 cloth, if a pastor had said it, you'd run here open a thread and start typing rubbish.

vooks:
Simple questions
1. Did the visiting Jews eat with the Gentiles BEFORE the rebuke?

BabaGnoni:








EXCERPT
Please note that of course, there are loads of others, that had equally taught, received, allowed or taken part in this activity known as the "HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit" doctrine (e.g. Oral Roberts, Paul Crouch of TBN, Kenneth Copeland etc just to name a few)
the thread at this juncture is singling Hagin out with this doctrine because of the following:

1) First as a result of his prominent Father of WoF position.
2) Second, from the word go, this doctrine like every other doctrine in WoF, had started with Hagin (i.e. he had been in the forefront of the "HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit" doctrine) along with new-WoF-kid-on-the-block Howard Rodney-Brown who earlier had got into the action (i.e. as like they mostly do with every other WoF doctrine) brought the doctrine up another notch or level up to the point of ludicrous
(e.g. as like was done with name-it... claim it, financial posterity etc doctrines)
3) Lastly, he had prophesied that there will be waves of God's glory never witnessed before sweeping across the country and world at large

As regards #3, simple research on Hagin or if one had been following Hagin, one would have noticed that he had previously "prophesied" (i.e. this prophecy he made, is captured on video) about a new wave of anointing that will sweep and move across the country and the world at large.

This "Holy Ghost laughter and slain in the spirit" thing is what Hagin declared to be the first filling demonstration of the new spiritual anointing he said God had promised him.

Hagin usually starts with quoting scriptures also along the line, in other incidents, he usually gets his music director to sing the "laughing song" repeatedly over and over, to get attendees worked up for the frenzy (i.e. this can be seen done in other videos)

The lyrics in the songs are for example: "Laughing, laughing, laughing is so much fun..." etc. He also says, when the spirit moves, just jump in, as in, laugh along (i.e. fake the laugh, until to make or start to laugh)

You see, Hagin, been an Apostle that he claims he was, had prophesied (i.e. this is captured on video) that God promised Him that a new wave of special anointing will sweep across the country and beyond.
EXCERPT

HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit:
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#24937905

Hear "Baba" announcing prophesy is fulfilled and effectively declaring at the 2.13 minutes that:
"... this is the first time we've HAD the full manisfestation of that anointing..."

Image123:

Where's the so called uneasiness you claimed it caused?

BabaGnoni:

Hacker's Tsunami - hackers hacked the server and deleted the uneasiness data.

mbaemeka:


Knowing about the incidence was not Paul's intention. Someone says to Paul "James said without circumcision we Gentiles are not truly saved". Paul says "thats wrong no matter who says that. In fact while I was in Antioch I had to correct Peter infront of the other leaders when he suggested the same thing. This is not what the Lord taught me". Paul is clearly telling them to disregard the circumcision debate. Period.

And also when you say 'publicly' it depends on what you mean. When James told Paul about forbidding meat sacrificed to idols, he said it in 'public' I.e to the hearing of all the other leaders in the meeting. But he didn't say it publicly to the hearing of 'floor members' of the new Christian faith.

There are just some things you don't say in front of babes.

WinsomeX:

Lol.

Outside that, the mediator himself will rather have us discuss everything but that video - the unpleasant needle.

BabaGnoni:


Hacker's Tsunami - hackers hacked the server and deleted the uneasiness data.
but intrigued by what "Baba" meant by announcing prophesy is fulfilled and effectively declaring at the 2.13 minutes that:
"... this is the first time we've HAD the full manisfestation of that anointing..."