I have just replaced tithes with another pre-Mosaic practice, circumcision

Gombs:


Does what you wrote make sense at all? it doesnt to me

Gombs:

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Goshen360:


Go into scriptures, the NT...See how the early churches WAS ABLE TO DO EVERYTHING OR MOST THINGS WITHOUT RECORD OF ONE SINGLE TITHE COLLECTED. That's what we should stay with, NOT ADDING TO THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD.

list them out please.

vooks:
the Law also 'merely' regulated circumcision,sacrifices and offerings. Were circumcision,sacrifices and offerings BEFORE the Law by faith?
It is nonsense to claim that tithing BEFORE Moses was by 'faith' since there was no Law as if no Law automatically means faith

So, Abraham did not tithe by faith, by what exactly did he tithe?

Pre-Mosaic tithing is NOT by faith any more than pre-Mosaic animal sacrifices are.
I may as well offer animal sacrifices and claim that Christ redeemed me from Moses not from Abel/Jacob/Abraham sacrifices which are by 'faith'. So when am offering, am not following Moses but Abraham my Father in Faith!

Exactly what do you mean 'by faith'? This is an ambiguous and overused spiritual jargon to confuse the ignorant

WinsomeX:
Gombs, provide the whole text on tithe which Hagin taught and let's discuss. Though I cannot understand why you will believe us on tithes when you refuse to accept thst Hagin rejected firstfruit. Is it tithe, which he advocated, that you will now accept?

Point where he rejected firstfuits... if he did, he would have spelt it out clearly. He said preachers used to say they are the priests now, hence firstfruits are for them. that was what he spoke against. A critic of Hagin wrote thus

Teachers like Hagin from the word of faith taught the 10% and more. They teach give to get it back. I've heard others claim a "first fruits" giving which is a calculated 10% annual figure given as a one lump sum in January for the projected year. It's a lie and there is no arguing that.

http://mkayla./2009/11/18/the-dangerous-teaching-methods-of-kenneth-e-hagin-junker-jorge/

at least the critic is on your side, he has nothing to hide.

I am not here to convince you to tithe, just to discuss the book. Hagin knew tithing is great and should be done, and used the word "Absolutely", if he was against firstfruits in its entirety he would have written so in clear terms

i will put up the whole text

Dear 'tithers after Abraham' - why is a 'one-off' tithe not sufficient as an example after Abraham? Must it be monthly out of salary etc? Abi una dey fight wars monthly to get your salary (soldiers exempted of course)?

How many times must one tithe 'by faith' to have followed the example of Abraham? Once, twice? A hundred?

If we have inherited Abraham's blessings (i.e. the same that applies to those that paid tithe in his loins) why do we need to pay what has already been paid?

i am going out for follow up by 5pm.

see you all by 7pm

Matthew 23-23, Jesus was having ago at the Pharisees, the story is not just about tithing, but about not following the lords commandments. You need to read more then just' one verse at a time, but read above and below, every chapter has a story. Jesus had seen, and witnessed, what these so called priesthood tithers were doing, they weren't obeying the commandments. But receiving' not only the tithes, the old testament tithes were to feed the priesthood who couldn't own land, the lord said: bring your tithes into the storehouse, That their maybe food in my house. Not only the priesthood received the food, but it was for the poor, the needy, for strangers, the widows, and fatherless. The tithing is not like that now is it? Today tithing's are totally different, they take the tithes from all walks of life, such as the needy, poor, widows, strangers, and the fatherless. So who collects the tithes now? The Pharisees allowed business men to sell merchandise in the temple, so the Pharisees also will make a profit from them. it was Jesus who turned over the tables, and said: this is the lords house, a house of prayer. The Pharisees were visiting widows, who were loaded down with sins, making long prayers so everyone can hear, not caring for the needy, wouldn't eat with the poor, pray against even the tax collector, saying I thank you God I'm not one of these. Would sit in the best places. And shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for they don't go in themselves. For they would lay heavy burdens' hard to bear, laying them on men's shoulders. And it reads on, Yes they say that Christians and Judaism stood side by side, only because we both believe in the some God, but the different's between the Judaism' they didn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah, they believed the Messiah would come as a human king, as the son of David who were to build a kingdom here on earth. freeing them from the Romans rule. The Pharisees murdered Jesus as they did with their fathers who murdered the prophets. After you read this, you can see its pretty much like the churches today.. You can do this study below and believe, these half-truth messages about tithing, all maybe you can seek the lords kingdom, reading the word, asking the lord in prayer, for the truth to be reviled to you. Don't be fooled by these false prophets. We are already blessed, you don't need to buy your blessings with "MONEY" And for those who are teaching? REPENT. You can save yourselves and your house hold. The truth will set you free.

Gombs:
alright folks, i have been busier today, would upload tonight ... and a little change, our next topic is Chapter 4: THE PURPOSE OF PROSPERITY

it has wonderful topic such as;

God's People Must Prosper To Fulfill the Great Commission

Tithing—God's Plan for Financing The Church and Its Outreaches

Understand Why and How You Should Tithe

Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God

To Tithe or Not To Tithe

More Money Results in More Ministry

etc

from the above bold, let me put a little excerpt:

From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:


"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)


Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.

Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.

Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!


on second thought.. should i still put up chapter 4? Hagin explained Understand Why and How You Should Tithe ...it was a masterpiece.

Gombs, Hagin didn't need to spoon feed you by saying categorically that giving firstfruits is not necessary for the new testament Christian. Yet he meant it in very comprehensible terms; why else would he say he did not find any new testament scripture that supports giving first fruit offerings? He listed every reference to first fruits in the NT and none had anything to do with financial giving and he said that plainly.
Must he spoon feed you before you understand?

Was his or Isaac's or Jacob's sacrifice any different from the Leper's who was healed by Jesus?
Were any of these sacrifices 'by faith'?

Exactly what do you mean 'by faith'?

Gombs:


So, Abraham did not tithe by faith, by what exactly did he tithe?

You want him to put it down in Yoruba?

Do you believe or practice Firstfruits?
Is it in monetary terms?
Is there a remote reference to this practice in the NT?

page 137

Making a New Testament application of Old Testament technicalities violates every principle of Bible interpretation, especially when there isn't a single New Testament usage of the word "firstfruits" in the context in which it is being preached by some ministers.

The concept of firstfruits is not used in the New Testament in reference to financial giving. There is not even the vaguest hint of it by any New Testament writer in reference to money or the support of ministers.

Gombs:


Point where he rejected firstfuits... if he did, he would have spelt it out clearly. He said preachers used to say they are the priests now, hence firstfruits are for them. that was what he spoke against. A critic of Hagin wrote thus

[size=16pt]REFUTING HAGIN'S TITHE DOCTRINE[/size]

Hagin:
From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:

If there is very little mention of tithe in the New Testament, why is it the central gospel of many preachers especially of the Word of Faith extraction. One will think Christians will major on what scriptures commands us to major on and then minor on the same. Why is it that of all the text in the NT that called on Christians to give, not once is the tithe mentioned. However, let's consider where Jesus is said to have clearly affirmed a belief in tithe.

Hagin:

"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)


Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.

"Yes YOU should tuthe..."

Is Kenneth Hagin, Gombs, Image123 and all other folks intent on tithing Pharisees?

Many have commented on Matthew 23 so I will not ruse up old debate but using Matthew 23:23 as a justification to tithe is a perfect example of living by the letters of scriptures. Churches like Christ Embassy that will glory in Matth 23:23 for tithing, will justify 1 Cor 11 where scriptures command women to cover their hair or the Timothy epistles where commanded women not to preach in church. They flagrantly disobey these scriptures but hang unto Matt 23:23 for gain.

Jesus was speaking to men under the law and so he said, yes they should tithe. The church is not under Moses laws so we are not obligated to tithe.

Hagin also misses a detail here: if Jesus commanded tithes, he clearly mentioned what they were, agricultural products: mint, annise and cummin. In keeping with Lev 27:30-33, where the tithe was to be fruit of the tree, seed of ground or tenth of the herd.

The tithes Jesus referred to here was not money or salary.

Hagin:
Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.

Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.

I was hoping that Hagin will finally produce that scripture that said we should or someone tithed by faith in the bible. Alas, he didn't.

Nowhere does scripture say Abraham’s tithing was by faith.

Abraham’s tithing in Gen 14 was an act of Thanksgiving and in keeping with a custom of giving a tenth to kings or priests of those days of spoils.

Abraham’s tithing was recorded in Hebrew 7 to show the superiority of Christ's priesthood.

Hebrew 11 records the acts of faith of the patriarchs, including Abraham, tithing was not one of them.

Hagin:
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14

Incidentally, Hagin misses a vital aspect of scriptures, a verse in Nehemiah 10, where the laws of Moses were restored to the church of Israel. Tithing and firstfruits were mentioned in the same breadth! How Baba could annul firstfruit and retain the tithe is a wonder. See:

Nehemiah 10:36 Also the firstborn of our sons, and of our cattle, as it is written in the law, and the firstlings of our herds and of our flocks, to bring to the house of our God, unto the priests that minister in the house of our God: 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage. 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Hagin:
So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Again, there is no such thing as tithing by faith.

Hagin:
Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!

The Christian church is called to give: everyman must decide what he should give. It could be a tithe, a fifth, 100%, anything, as he purposes in his heart.

Tithing is a long cherished tradition that Hagin dared not challenge. What he however could not learn, it pleases God to teach his church today. The church is not Hagin's but Christ's. Thank God it was Christ who died.

Hagin started well by showing that tithing was rarely mentioned in the NT. That's were the truth lies. The message of the NT is grace, freedom and the blessing of a walk in the Spirit. All of which a legalistic adherence to tithing denies the saints of God.

Thank you Winsomex.

It is only fair to aks exactly what we mean by 'tithing by faith'

It is also fair to aks if pre-Mosaic practices can/should be freely practiced today seeing Christ ONLY nailed the Mosaic law to the cross

And finally, it makes sense to aks if there is any DIFFERENCE between a pre-Mosaic practice carried out before Moses and when incorporated into and carried out AFTER Moses

Gombs:


Ah! the only sensible post so far after my Tithe post from the book Hagin wrote.

Hagin highlighted the law MERELY regulated tithing, and we tithe by faith (a fact you attacked me and Joagbaje for) check the tithes and offering thread. Now, If churches are not to tithe, how then should they raise funds? Offerings and free willed donations alone? right? ok

from what Hagin wrote, you think he missed it? if so, kindly point them out

What is wrong with free willed donations alone dear Gombs? what is wrong with asking members to decide what they wish to contribute on a regular basis to their fellowship and encourage them to remain faithful to it? why use Mal 3 to threaten them when Mal 1:1 starts with "The burden of the word of the LORD to Isreal by Malachi'' clearly indicating it was wrtitten to Isreal under the law, not to Christians under Grace?

Why not just tell them to give as they purpose in their hearts. the exact same thing Paul told Christians like you and me residing in Corinth? Why tell them to tithe because Jesus said it ought to be done in Matt 23:23 when the same verse referenced the law of Moses which showed Jesus clearly had the regulated tithe of Moses law in mind and which we all know had no relationship to the way Abraham tithed?

If you notice, i have not touched the subject of tithes for a long time. After the 58 days of back and forth we had recently, i believed we've covered all there is to cover on that subject. Maybe i'll resume in future.

However, as long as you dont tell folks the following when preaching tithes, i will turn a blind eye to the issue

1. You will go to hell for not tithing because you're a robber (Hagin confirmed that scripture has nothing to do with a Christian like we've been telling you)

2. A devourer will attack your finances if you don't pay tithe

3. The devil will collect the tithe from you if you don't bring it to church

4. Pastors have replaced the priestly tribe of Levi

5. You cannot prosper if you don't pay tithes.

6. Telling them they must add 20% penalty to any default in tithe payment they have (i'm sure you saw that devotional by one of the biggest MOG in the country on this issue)

etc

I'm sure no participant on this thread has any excuse to still indulge in the lies enumerated above after what we've heard from Hagin.

For folks who chose to keep to the 10% mark like Nannymcphee (She knows it doesnt have to be brought to the pastor before it's deemed acceptable), i have no problems with their resolve and i'll even encourage them.

As long as we don't keep oiling the wheel of fraudsters who latch unto the name of Christ to fleece people (i didnt mention names o), we are all good


P/S: Does anyone think our Mega churches actually lack funds? i watched the video of the mog owning a $16,000 dog. Does that guy have any moral justification to request donations into his 'ministry'? I know plenty of them even in this country who indulge in worse waste of scarce funds. Do you in all good conscience believe such prodigals should be entrusted with the contributions of any hardworking child of God? This is just an aside for us to think about

Gombs:


So, Abraham did not tithe by faith, by what exactly did he tithe?

*Error alert*

Tithing was a culture and custom of the land that predates Abram.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!

What you write is not tru did you know how many followers of this new churches belong to the group of people who didnot have the money that they could pay for their health care.

Did you know that a middle class american pay more tax than the rich americans.

I read from a woman she live on help from the Goverment in America and that she could give her 10% tithing she has to make quilts andthat with an ages of 78 and the pastors of her church know this but takes this samal money and he drives a big car he should help this woman not take the small money from her.

The moste oft the people who belong to this movement belong to the group of americans with the lowest income.

@Gombs, the foundation school manual of Christ Embassy clearly states that 'Tithing is COMPULSORY for every Christian and member of the church'
'Tithing is not a choice'

Do you agree with this stance? If yes, does it not go against your current argument of 'tithing by faith'? if it is by faith then why the compulsion?

Candour:

P/S: Does anyone think our Mega churches actually lack funds? i watched the video of the mog owning a $16,000 dog.
Does that guy have any moral justification to request donations into his 'ministry'?
I know plenty of them even in this country who indulge in worse waste of scarce funds.
Do you in all good conscience believe such prodigals should be entrusted with the contributions of any hardworking child of God?
This is just an aside for us to think about

$16,000 dog to PROTECT his wife, he said, SMH
You can take a man out of the ghetto,
but on some occasions, you can't take the ghetto-mentality out of the man

vooks:
Thank you Winsomex.

It is only fair to aks exactly what we mean by 'tithing by faith'

It is also fair to aks if pre-Mosaic practices can/should be freely practiced today seeing Christ ONLY nailed the Mosaic law to the cross

And finally, it makes sense to aks if there is any DIFFERENCE between a pre-Mosaic practice carried out before Moses and when incorporated into and carried out AFTER Moses

It is an old debate here, this tithing by faith thing, so I will pre empt them. The tithers here will return to prove that everything the Christian does should be by faith: so therefore tithe by faith.

The trouble with this line of thought is that they forget that a whole lot of other things can also be done by faith to justify a bondage to legalism.

The Jews Paul contended could as well say they were calling for the gentiles to circumcise by faith.

The religious leaders of Jesus time could also be keeping the Sabbath by faith.

Adventists could say they they on Saturdays by faith.

Catholics could say they worship Mary and angels by faith.

In fact sinners could rebel against God by faith.

See?

Our actions that are done in faith are things we do in obedience to God's word. We must then ask where is the church commanded to tuthe in the NT?

Also, we may do things not strictly written in scripture, to honor God and in faith. This is where tithing comes in. But this sort of action is a personal act to honor. It becomes wrong, sinful and bondage to command what is personal to you on all.

We all understsnd that fasting is free will. A Christian will naturally fast in faith. Imagine someone, a pastor, now insist it is something all must do. That will be wrong.

Hagin can be correct to say folks can tithe by faith; just as any other thing we do in Christendom that is good is done in faith. But if no clear scripture in the old or new teaches tithing by faith, WoF will do well to not add to the bible what it didnt say, thus making tithing a legal requirement today.

BabaGnoni:


$16,000 dog to PROTECT his wife, he said, SMH
You can take a man out of the ghetto,
but on some occasions, you can't take the ghetto-mentality out of the man

That video was the perfect proof that common sense isn't common. Did you see the crowd of deluded folks cheering him on? Christ said narrow is the way and few will find it. That video also proved Christ didn't lie when he said that.

HAHAHAHA, now fellas are "refuting" Hagin? i thought this book of his was the bomb praised to high heavens? Confused lot.

Gombs:
alright folks, i have been busier today, would upload tonight ... and a little change, our next topic is Chapter 4: THE PURPOSE OF PROSPERITY

it has wonderful topic such as;

God's People Must Prosper To Fulfill the Great Commission

Tithing—God's Plan for Financing The Church and Its Outreaches

Understand Why and How You Should Tithe

Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God

To Tithe or Not To Tithe

More Money Results in More Ministry

etc

from the above bold, let me put a little excerpt:

From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:


"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)


Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.

Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.

Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!


on second thought.. should i still put up chapter 4? Hagin explained Understand Why and How You Should Tithe ...it was a masterpiece.

With regards to Abraham's tithing in Gen 14, if a little research is done, one will find out that it was the custom of the near-eastern people during Abraham's era to honour their rulers with certain percentages from the spoils of war or any bounty. It was like a form of legal taxation levied for the continous establishment of the kingdoms.

So Abraham coming from the Ur of Chaldeans in present day Iraq understands the custom of paying tithes or should we say a percentage of his bounty to Melchisedec.

Fast forward to the Israelities under the law, Almighty God being the Supreme ruler sets up a tithing system to be coordinated by the Priestic tribe of Levities, who are God's theocratic representatives on earth. All other tribes who are landed owners in the Promised Land are expected to contribute/pay their tithes from the bountiful harvests recorded both crops & animals.

Now there are no more Levities because we have a better covenant with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Hence Paul wrote many words to the Gentile Christians about their adoption into the Commonwealth of Israel.

Lobeez:
@Gombs, the foundation school manual of Christ Embassy clearly states that 'Tithing is COMPULSORY for every Christian and member of the church'
'Tithing is not a choice'

Do you agree with this stance? If yes, does it not go against your current argument of 'tithing by faith'? if it is by faith then why the compulsion?

Of course they have to call it compulsory and we know the scripture that helps them say this, Mal 3 which their much loved and talked about Hagin has admitted wasn't talking to a Christian.

No wonder "The Midas Touch'' is so unavailable in mega churche's bookshops. Who will want one old man close to the grave to come pour sand for them garri

Image123:
HAHAHAHA, now fellas are "refuting" Hagin? i thought this book of his was the bomb praised to high heavens? Confused lot.

Since, I am the only one who has refuted Hagin here, I know this comment is for me. Now provide one statement of mine on this thread or on the one that led to this one, were I "praised" the book to high heaven. If you cannot, you are apparently the confused one.

While I do not deny that some of my friends here believe there is something to learn from Midas Touch, my position on it is that it is a hypocritical work that was never designed to birth any lasting reforms among WoF adherents and that is why its message has been largely ignored by them.

WinsomeX:


Since, I am the only one who has refuted Hagin here, I know this comment is for me. Now provide one statement of mine on this thread or on the one that led to this one, were I "praised" the book to high heaven. If you cannot, you are apparently the confused one.

While I do not deny that some of my friends here believe there is something to learn from Midas Touch, my position on it is that it is a hypocritical work that was never designed to birth any lasting reforms among WoF adherents and that is why its message has been largely ignored by them.

Don't worry. Me i go manage am.

Let them stop the deceit, lies and fraud he had the courage to point out first. Maybe Oyedepo, Adeboye, Oyaks etc will do the others before they exit the stage too. If they forget to remember the books, we'll dig it out for them the way God used one curious lady to bring this one out to public scrutiny.

God works in mysterious ways you know

WinsomeX:


Since, I am the only one who has refuted Hagin here, I know this comment is for me. Now provide one statement of mine on this thread or on the one that led to this one, were I "praised" the book to high heaven. If you cannot, you are apparently the confused one.

While I do not deny that some of my friends here believe there is something to learn from Midas Touch, my position on it is that it is a hypocritical work that was never designed to birth any lasting reforms among WoF adherents and that is why its message has been largely ignored by them.

i referred to many people (fellas and LOT) in my post. Your comprehension let you down yet again, or you decided to claim it by faith personally. Your statement here seems to be different from this your earlier one sha. i'm not like your fellows that excel in false accusations. i've not accused you.

https://www.nairaland.com/1939255/bankruptcy-prosperity-gospel-exercise-biblical/6#27263211

Image123:


i referred to many people (fellas and LOT) in my post. Your comprehension let you down yet again, or you decided to claim it by faith personally. Your statement here seems to be different from this your earlier one sha. i'm not like your fellows that excel in false accusations. i've not accused you.

https://www.nairaland.com/1939255/bankruptcy-prosperity-gospel-exercise-biblical/6#27263211

This is my statement from the link you provided

WinsomeX:
Bankruptcy of the prosperity gospel... Looking at the quotes from Midas Touch, I am convinced that if Hagin had lived longer, he would have totally renounced the prosperity gospel he helped enact in the church.

Nevertheless, God is so kind to ensure that Hagin's limitations were further taken care of by the Spirit of God teaching individual believers and delivering God's people from a truly bankrupt gospel.

This is my statement here:

WinsomeX:

While I do not deny that some of my friends here believe there is something to learn from Midas Touch, my position on it is that it is a hypocritical work that was never designed to birth any lasting reforms among WoF adherents and that is why its message has been largely ignored by them.

How do the two of them amount to praising Hagin to high heavens. See your confusion?

You said fellas are refuting Hagin; who else has done so here? I am only advising you to stop making blanket statements, calling everyone who opposes your views confused. Be bold enough to talk directly to the one refuting and the ones praising. To lump them both up as confused is confusion indeed, or is it a challenge of comprehending written English?

vooks:
Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
2:12 For before that certain came from James , he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all , If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Who is 'THEM'?

1. Certain came from James.
2. When they came he [Peter] withdrew and separated himself from the gentiles fearing THEM [certain that came from James]
3. Other Jews like Barnabas too were carried away by the dissimulation.
4. Paul rebuked Peter before THEM [certain that came from James] all [including the other Jews around Paul like Barnabas]

Who were these certain men? Where they 'floor members' or 'Excos'? Why did James (leader of the Jerusalem church) send them?

Those who have eyes to see will see while the incorrigibly positioned hooligans will keep trolling by making moot points here and there.

[size=20pt]Understand Why and How You Should Tithe[/size]

About fifty years ago, I was pastoring a church in the oil fields of east Texas. One of the deacons of the church had a good job working for Humble Oil Company. And he was always faithful in his support of the church.
One day he said to me, "Brother Hagin, can you explain something to me? I 've been a Christian for thirteen years, and
I 've been faithful in paying my tithes and giving offerings."

I knew that was true. He was a regular tither whose support really blessed the church. "What is it you want to know?" I
asked.

He said, "Well, I don't know why I'm doing it. I've never heard any teaching or preaching about tithing. When I got saved, they told me I was supposed to do it, so I did. But I don't know of anything that's ever come of it in thirteen years. If I've ever gotten any blessing out of it, I don't know it."

I was amazed. Here was a good man who had been tithing strictly from the standpoint of slavish duty, and it hadn't worked for him. So I took a few minutes and told him a little bit of what I'm sharing with you in this chapter.

Then I said to him, "The next time you get your tithe envelope out, say, 'Lord, I'm doing this by faith. I'm giving for the purpose of keeping this local church going, which is benefiting the Body of Christ by helping people. I'm helping spread the Gospel so that people can be saved. Thank You, God, for making it possible for me to be part of Your work. I am giving in faith and expectancy to be blessed according to Your Word.'"

"I'll sure give that a try," he said. And he did.

About thirty days later, he came back to me with a big grin on his face. "I've been doing what you said, Brother Hagin. Every week I've been praying when I get ready to pay my tithes. And boy," he declared, "it's really working. I can definitely tell a difference in my finances!"

Another time, in another east Texas church, a man came to me and said, "Brother Hagin, my wife and I have been paying tithes ever since we got saved, nearly twenty-five years. But we've never heard any teaching from the Bible about it. Many of our friends in the church are farmers. They borrow money to buy seed to plant, and when the cotton is ready, they hire people to pick it. How do they pay tithes?

"I talked to one or two of the deacons," he said. "And they don't know much about it, either. They said they had thought about asking you to preach about it, but they didn't want you to think they were trying to tell you what to preach. So I wanted to see if you thought you would be talking about it anytime soon?"

I said to the man, "Brother Williams, I'm glad you brought this up. God has been dealing with me about this before you ever said anything. So I'm going to do it right away."

In those days, the biggest crowd we had at our church was on Sunday night. The building was usually full, and if the weather was good, sometimes there would be people standing outside. Because I wanted the most people possible to hear what the Bible says about tithing and giving, I took a Sunday night and spent about an hour on the subject, going into great detail.

I had always tried to preach a balanced message to the church. I had preached about salvation, the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and the gifts of the Spirit. I had preached about healing, faith, and living a life of love and service to others. So the people knew I wasn't trying to cram something down their throats when I preached about finances; it was something they needed and wanted to know.

After the service, many of the folks told me how glad they were that I had preached about tithing and giving—that I had helped them understand what the Bible said and the purpose for giving to God. I could tell they had taken it to heart.

[size=20pt]Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God[/size]

Well, immediately the income of the church tripled! Without any special emphasis or pull, there was a generous response when we passed the offering plate. Even sinners started paying their tithes. There were two ladies in the church who were married to unsaved men. These two men would come to church with their families on Sunday night.

The very next day after I preached on tithing, one of these men stopped by the parsonage. "Brother Hagin," he said. "My wife and I talked about your sermon on the way home last night. We believe that God will bless us if we obey His Word. I just got off my first bales of cotton so I wanted to stop by and pay out tithes."

Well, those unsaved fellows kept on paying their tithes. And it wasn't long until both of them got saved and filled with the Spirit. Their families were blessed too. Later, one of the wives was called to preach, and the family went out on the field to minister. The last account I had of them, they were traveling about and evangelizing.

In my more than sixty-five years of ministry, I've heard thousands of testimonies from people who have practiced God's biblical plan of returning a tenth of their income to Him through the local church. A great many of them, in the beginning, weren't sure how they could get by on the remaining ninety percent of their income when they had been barely making it beforehand. But somehow they did. Oh, it wasn't always easy. It required patience, determination, faith, and some time.

But if they persisted, the promised blessings came. Sometimes they noticed that God had "rebuked the devourer" in their lives—the car or the appliances didn't break down as often or the kids weren't sick as much, resulting in fewer medical bills.
If they worked in construction or as farmers, bad weather didn't keep them off the job. Then many times, extra income would come from totally unexpected sources. Perhaps they would get a raise, some overtime hours, or maybe even a bonus! Others reported that they got an insurance settlement, collected on an old debt, or received an inheritance. ***Some folks will think Hagin is lying or it was God just being fair

The bottom line was that when they paid their tithes, they had more financially and did better. And most people were also blessed spiritually with a closet walk with God, physically with better health, and mentally and emotionally with a greater sense of joy and well-being. The Bible says, "The blessing of the Lord, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it" (Prov. 10:22).


*** the blessing aren't necessarily monetary, for me, i get less expenses in ALL things and crazy gifts, including cash . Oya, food don done, where are shedemidemi and Goshen and others ? Lobeez, vooks are somewhat lost. Come give you theories

mbaemeka:


1. Certain came from James.
2. When they came he [Peter] withdrew and separated himself from the gentiles fearing THEM [certain that came from James]
3. Other Jews like Barnabas too were carried away by the dissimulation.
4. Paul rebuked Peter before THEM [certain that came from James] all [including the other Jews around Paul like Barnabas]

Who were these certain men? Where they 'floor members' or 'Excos'? Why did James (leader of the Jerusalem church) send them?

Those who have eyes to see will see while the incorrigibly positioned hooligans will keep trolling by making moot points here and there.

my man forget these guys... leave them in their ignorance. Imagine Paul in the midst of thousands of brethren rebuking Peter.

Those "thobad gan" boys took prosperity gospel to another level, racked it up a few more notches and started living the dream for "Baba"
They raced the block and turned the corner, leaving "Baba" behind
Jim Bakker's book then hit home and got at "Baba", leaving him grumpy and sulking...
Ah-ah, in a short time, all of them acquired jets, ALL of them (i.e. Copeland, Jesse, Leroy, Benny, Creflo, Jerry etc) fiam, easily, just like that LOL
as per maga don pay.

Meeting ko, meeting ni, abeggy, "Baba" park jor and park well well
- "Who will want one old man close to the grave to come pour sand for them garri" - © Candour
Na oil I dey carry! Sand sand man no come spoil my own!!
hence the Midas Touch given wide berth

Okay Gombs so answer me: Is tithing compulsory?