Radoillo:


Why do you think in many Arab countries, 'abd' (slave) is still used derogatorily to refer to black Africans? You think that doesn't stem from a historical reality?


Are you familiar with ibn Battuta (a North African Berber) and his eyewitness written accounts on African societies (including trade with Arabs in slaves)? No, I'm sure you are not.


Are you familiar with other Arab historians of that period such as al-Masudi and al-Maqrizi who also recorded the traffic in African slaves to Arab-speaking lands?


Are you familiar with the history of the Arab conquest of the Nubian Kingdoms in what is now Sudan and the enslavement of its people, recorded by Arab writers of the day, including al-Balhaduri (writer of "Fotouh al-Buldan", Ibn Khaldun (writer of "Muqaddimah" among several others? No?

I won't be surprised if you manage to find a way to dismiss their accounts. I won't be surprised if you also find a way to dismiss the modern-day narrations of black South Sudanese who were formerly held as slave by Northern Sudanese Arabs.

South Sudanese men like Ker Deng:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_7UdFYF9HU

Simon Deng:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMXE7EKLVA

You'll probably dismiss the experiences of the two Dengs (and the experiences of countless other South Sudanese like them) as Euro-American propaganda.






BTW, why have you refused to answer this simple question: "Are you a Muslim?"

Good one bro.
If only his sleepy medulla will comprehend.

GenBuhari:
The fact that your enemy has destroyed your own record of history is no justification to allow your enemy to write your history for you. In fact it is nothing short of foolhardy. This is akin to the jews allowing the Nazis to write their history during the halocaust, and trusting the Nazis to write a truthful account.
Or a criminal court of law only hearing and accepting the evidence of of the criminal (the defence) as the truth, without hearing from the prosecution.

I honestly don't know what other way I can educate you on this. All I can say is, Europeans simply did not have the military might during the 15th-19th centuries to take Africans by force. Both Western historians and local traditions state that Western slave catcher got ripped a new one by the local village navies when they attempted to acquire slaves by force. This is why they only conquered Africa at the turn of the 20th century. They needed 400 years to develop the technology to do so.

GenBuhari:
I am not sure how the picture you posted of some sort of animal or beast holding a gun and a machete proves your case that Africans accepted guns in exchange for live enslaved Africans.

So from what I'm getting from this, you don't believe Africans possessed firearms? But its on the wall. I was using wall art as evidence similarly to how archaeologists use ancient Egyptian wall art to learn about Egyptian society. Its right there for you to see, why are you denying. Heres more:



Why would they depict themselves using firearms if they didn't actually have them? Where did they get these firearms shown in their artwork from?

GenBuhari:
So you are privy to European reasoning and policies. Yet you failed to address why people who claimed that they came to trade peacefully would bring so many guns ?(instruments of war) and also be trading in the bounties of war (allegedly enslaved prisoners of war).This is just not credible.

Answer the question then. Where did they acquire the guns they are using in the reliefs above?

GenBuhari:
That is purely your interpretation and is no basis for making such leaps in logic as to claim that Africans sold themselves as slaves to Europeans.
All you have said are mainly leaps in logic to jump to a conclusion that supports history as written by the caucasian historians. There is no independently verifiable evidence to support the white man's version of history so we cannot accept it as factual.

There are well documented sources from both sides of the fence stating that Europeans HAD to trade because they could not steal them by force. You seem to be under the impression (I'm guessing from self-haters that deface these kingdoms purely from their participation in the slave trade) that the selling of slaves is entirely from greed. I suggest you look up the slave trade in the Kongo and how that went down for the local merchants. I assure you the Kongolese elite received no benefits from it and were effectively forced by the Portuguese to supply workers to them. No greed on the elites part, but fear. Based on this example, I personally believe a similar thing occurred in West Africa where the elites were forced to trade slaves by threat of Europeans invasion, they were likely spooked by the advanced weapons carried by the European traders, and needed to arm their military with said superior weaponry to defend themselves from potential conquest.

Hear Ghadaffi confirming that Arabs never occupied Africa got straight to 4:10 of the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVLvC09kthQ&list=UUMQOLBMYxeVLCX3cUWfmbOQ

My God! Gaddafi's words are written there in plain English. Yet you could not understand it. Where did he say Arabs never occupied Africa? What he said was that since "Arabs" were expelled from Andalusia (Spain and Portugal) they had not occupied any more territory.

When did Gaddafi become an authority in history, anyway?

This is not evidence that proves that Arabs ever conquered and / or enslaved Africa.

That Arab countries call black "abd" does not mean Arabs enslaved African you have taken several huge leaps in logic to arrive at that conclusion.


Many Arab names begin with "Abd" as you said it is a derogatory insult used by ignorant Arabs who have equally bought into the lies of white historians.

I have also looked into Ibn Battuta and nothing I read supported the view that Africa was ever conquered or enslaved y Arabs. Also how do we be certain that the people that translated his writings to European languages were not the same lying Europeans or sponsored by Europeans.

The same questions should apply to the translations for the writings of al-Balhaduri , Ibn Khaldun, al-Masudi and al-Maqrizi (who I have not yet read up on).


The videos of South Sudanese people claiming to have been slaves seems very staged and unconvincing. The adult so called former slaves is so educated he speaks english like a university professor.

The younger Deng who is a blind boy was pretending to require a translator, but was quick to correct the translator when she translated one word wrongly.

The fact that the hearing is occuring in America makes it hard not to e dismissed as propaganda to support the white man's lies about slavery in ancient Africa.

Radoillo:


Why do you think in many Arab countries, 'abd' (slave) is still used derogatorily to refer to black Africans? You think that doesn't stem from a historical reality?


Are you familiar with ibn Battuta (a North African Berber) and his eyewitness written accounts on African societies (including trade with Arabs in slaves)? No, I'm sure you are not.


Are you familiar with other Arab writers of that period such as al-Masudi and al-Maqrizi who also recorded the traffic in African slaves to Arab-speaking lands?


Are you familiar with the history of the Arab conquest of the Nubian Kingdoms in what is now Sudan and the enslavement of its people, recorded by Arab writers of the day, including al-Balhaduri (writer of "Fotouh al-Buldan", Ibn Khaldun (writer of "Muqaddimah" among several others? No?

I won't be surprised if you manage to find a way to dismiss their accounts. I won't be surprised if you also find a way to dismiss the modern-day narrations of black South Sudanese who were formerly held as slave by Northern Sudanese Arabs.

South Sudanese men like Ker Deng:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_7UdFYF9HU

Simon Deng:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMXE7EKLVA

You'll probably dismiss the experiences of the two Dengs (and the experiences of countless other South Sudanese like them) as Euro-American propaganda.






BTW, why have you refused to answer this simple question: "Are you a Muslim?"

GenBuhari:
This is not evidence that proves that Arabs ever conquered and / or enslaved Africa.

That Arab countries call black "abd" does not mean Arabs enslaved African you have taken several huge leaps in logic to arrive at that conclusion.


Many Arab names begin with "Abd" as you said it is a derogatory insult used by ignorant Arabs who have equally bought into the lies of white historians.

I have also looked into Ibn Battuta and nothing I read supported the view that Africa was ever conquered or enslaved y Arabs. Also how do we be certain that the people that translated his writings to European languages were not the same lying Europeans or sponsored by Europeans.

The same questions should apply to the translations for the writings of al-Balhaduri , Ibn Khaldun, al-Masudi and al-Maqrizi (who I have not yet read up on).


The videos of South Sudanese people claiming to have been slaves seems very staged and unconvincing. The adult so called former slaves is so educated he speaks english like a university professor.

The younger Deng who is a blind boy was pretending to require a translator, but was quick to correct the translator when she translated one word wrongly.

The fact that the hearing is occuring in America makes it hard not to e dismissed as propaganda to support the white man's lies about slavery in ancient Africa.

You f**king Arab slave!

You quickly dismiss all reasonable evidence, including eyewitness accounts on grounds that make sense only to you. Then you swing around and offer the mis-construed words of a politician as your ultimate evidence. I don't even know why i bother.

GenBuhari:
This is not evidence that proves that Arabs ever conquered and / or enslaved Africa.

That Arab countries call black "abd" does not mean Arabs enslaved African you have taken several huge leaps in logic to arrive at that conclusion.


Many Arab names begin with "Abd" as you said it is a derogatory insult used by ignorant Arabs who have equally bought into the lies of white historians.

I have also looked into Ibn Battuta and nothing I read supported the view that Africa was ever conquered or enslaved y Arabs. Also how do we be certain that the people that translated his writings to European languages were not the same lying Europeans or sponsored by Europeans.

The same questions should apply to the translations for the writings of al-Balhaduri , Ibn Khaldun, al-Masudi and al-Maqrizi (who I have not yet read up on).


The videos of South Sudanese people claiming to have been slaves seems very staged and unconvincing. The adult so called former slaves is so educated he speaks english like a university professor.

The younger Deng who is a blind boy was pretending to require a translator, but was quick to correct the translator when she translated one word wrongly.

The fact that the hearing is occuring in America makes it hard not to e dismissed as propaganda to support the white man's lies about slavery in ancient Africa.

I am not necessarily going to disagree with you. Whilst I am steadfast in my view that African could ever have sold themselves as slaves to Europeans.

I think that with enough gun power relatively small army of Europeans could capture Africa territory especially if they operated stealthily and attacked one small region or village at a time. Especially if they use their well know tactic of divide and rule.

kingston277:

I honestly don't know what other way I can educate you on this. All I can say is, Europeans simply did not have the military might during the 15th-19th centuries to take Africans by force. Both Western historians and local traditions state that Western slave catcher got ripped a new one by the local village navies when they attempted to acquire slaves by force. This is why they only conquered Africa at the turn of the 20th century. They needed 400 years to develop the technology to do so.

That ancient Africa art depicted Africans carrying guns does not in anyway prove that Africans acquired them by selling themselves as slaves.
The guns were most likely to have been captured during battles with Europeans.

kingston277:

So from what I'm getting from this, you don't believe Africans possessed firearms? But its on the wall. I was using wall art as evidence similarly to how archaeologists use ancient Egyptian wall art to learn about Egyptian society. Its right there for you to see, why are you denying. Heres more:



Why would they depict themselves using firearms if they didn't actually have them? Where did they get these firearms shown in their artwork from?


Answer the question then. Where did they acquire the guns they are using in the reliefs above?

Africans trading slaves on the orders of the European does not count as it was not done y their own free will.

kingston277:


There are well documented sources from both sides of the fence stating that Europeans HAD to trade because they could not steal them by force. You seem to be under the impression (I'm guessing from self-haters that deface these kingdoms purely from their participation in the slave trade) that the selling of slaves is entirely from greed. I suggest you look up the slave trade in the Kongo and how that went down for the local merchants. I assure you the Kongolese elite received no benefits from it and were effectively forced by the Portuguese to supply workers to them. No greed on the elites part, but fear. Based on this example, I personally believe a similar thing occurred in West Africa where the elites were forced to trade slaves by threat of Europeans invasion, they were likely spooked by the advanced weapons carried by the European traders, and needed to arm their military with said superior weaponry to defend themselves from potential conquest.

1 If you check fela kuti in Encarta encyclopedia dictionary,, it was written there that Fela's role model is Idi Amin Dada of Uganda.. Which is false.
2 Hagen said the history of Africans starts with slave trade in Africa nd that Africa have no history.
3 Mungo Park discovered River Niger? My great forefathers were there fishing before Mungo Park. Mungo Park met them there.
4 1998, the first time my cousin visited Nigeria, he was asking for our lion, our tiger and anxious to see Gorillas on the street. He said their Geography teacher told them everywhere in Africa is forest and we rear lion as pet.
5 As for slave trade, Our forefathers need to be blame. They were not economically rational. The Kings and chiefs also were to blame. Selling able bodies for mirrors and faded clothes. Benin pple have been producing gun bfr these oyinbo came, why didn't they fight back? To me the continent "Africa" is cursed. Today, if these whites appear again to start d old system of slave trade,, I will voluntarily follow them

1. Fela is a great African and so was Idi Amin, so it won't surprise if Idi Amin is Fela's hero. Idi Amin was one of the greatest African leaders, never mind imperialist propaganda about him which they are continuing to do till this very day.

5. You clearly have not taken time to read the thread before posting, what you just said about the slave thread (bolded) is white man's lies and propaganda. At the very best he can say that it is unproven hence it should never be taken as the truth especially knowing what we know of the white man's propensity for evil , lying and cheating.

emperorgoke:
1 If you check fela kuti in Encarta encyclopedia dictionary,, it was written there that Fela's role model is Idi Amin Dada of Uganda.. Which is false.
2 Hagen said the history of Africans starts with slave trade in Africa nd that Africa have no history.
3 Mungo Park discovered River Niger? My great forefathers were there fishing before Mungo Park. Mungo Park met them there.
4 1998, the first time my cousin visited Nigeria, he was asking for our lion, our tiger and anxious to see Gorillas on the street. He said their Geography teacher told them everywhere in Africa is forest and we rear lion as pet.
5 As for slave trade, Our forefathers need to be blame. They were not economically rational. The Kings and chiefs also were to blame. Selling able bodies for mirrors and faded clothes. Benin pple have been producing gun bfr these oyinbo came, why didn't they fight back? To me the continent "Africa" is cursed. Today, if these whites appear again to start d old system of slave trade,, I will voluntarily follow them

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