The Senate Leader, Victor Ndoma-
Egba, who is representing Cross
River Central Senatorial District in
this interview with SUNDAY
ABORISADE defends criticism
against the Nigerian senate and the
recent police invasion of the
National Assembly
Some Nigerians believe that the
executive has been taking the
federal parliament for a ride
because of the passive nature of the
Senate. They cite last Thursday’s
invasion of the National Assembly
by the police as a case in point.
What is your comment on this?
Let me say that the show of force in
the National Assembly by the
security agencies last Thursday was
quite unfortunate and totally
unnecessary because the precincts
of any parliament are supposed to
be sacrosanct and their action was
a violation of that. I will not be able
to go into the substantive issues on
why it happened or did not happen
because I have been told that there
are several court matters on those
issues and being a lawyer, I will not
be making any comment.
But clearly, there is a problem with
our democracy today because the
franchise is being exercised on
behalf of the people. It is as if the
people no longer matter in our
democracy. That is why the
classical definition of democracy is
government of the people by the
people for the people. That does not
appear to be happening right now.
Power has been hijacked, processes
have been hijacked, so the people
count for little or nothing. I think
this must begin to be a serious
concern to the political class. There
is need for the people to reconnect
with democracy and exercise their
franchise directly, otherwise, we will
run into a major crisis.
But is it not shameful that
lawmakers now scale fences?
The precincts of every parliament of
the world are supposed to be sacred
and I am not aware of any law that
prevents you from scaling the fence
to your own place. So, as long as
you are not trespassing, it’s in
order.
Nigerians have given up on the
senate, believing that the upper
chamber has become a rubber
stamp body for the executive. How
do you feel about this?
I don’t understand you. Can you cite
instances?
For instance, Nigerians are worried
that the senate had yet to speak out
on the billions of naira allegedly
ferried to South Africa through the
backdoor.
Well, first of all, we must have some
historical perspective to the senate
worldwide. From history, the senate
is supposed to be most sedate and
that is why even constitutionally,
the entry requirements are higher for
senators. The senate is supposed to
be a mature institution; it is
designed to stabilise the polity in
times of crisis. It is not to be part of
the problem of the polity. If you look
at the historical role of the Nigerian
senate, we have consistently played
that role of stabilising the polity. We
should not descend into the arena.
Nigerians believe that the recent
showdown the senate had with the
presidency was for selfish reasons.
What is your reaction to this?
I don’t agree with you on that.
Some people say most senators
have lost touch with their
constituencies and that’s why they
are demanding for automatic
tickets?
It is not a question of whether a
senator is popular or not. I have
talked about the people not being
able to make choices in our
democracy, but that certain
powerful people are exercising their
franchise on their behalf. So, the
negotiations the senators had with
the Presidency/Peoples Democratic
Party leadership was aimed at
cutting out those powerful people. It
is a fact that quite a number of
senators are still very popular with
their people but some forces are
saying that they don’t want them
again.
Are you saying that negotiating
automatic tickets would solve the
problem?
Yes, and if you stay connected to
your people. The decision of who
runs on a party’s ticket is the
decision of the party. So, the party
can decide through whatever means
they want to present as their
candidates.
Is it true that you are desperate to
continue in the senate and because
of that you have been all over the
place?
Let me put the issue in perspective.
What constitutes the institutional
memory in the senate is the
aggregate memory of each member.
If you have a high turnover rate of
members returning, it means you
also have a high turnover of loss of
memory. So, it is not in anybody’s
interest in every election, seeing
many senators going out of
parliament.
But this argument of loss of
institutional memory has been
faulted by some people who claim
that activities of the senate and that
of each senator are well
documented for reference for the
incoming ones.
Let me take mine for instance. How
do you document my network? You
can only see the records of the bills.
Do you know how I got those bills?
So the National Assembly all over
the world is a peculiar institution
and that is why in most presidential
constitutions, there is no time limit
because they know that high
turnover has a negative impact on
the institution.
So you mean the issue of automatic
tickets is not a selfish agenda of the
senators?
The whole idea is to sustain the
memory of the institution. I am not
desperate. In case you have
forgotten, I had a life before Senate.
I am a Senior Advocate of Nigeria, I
am not desperate. I have choices.
The important thing is for the people
themselves to make a choice. That
is the critical point. Is it the
governors that should decide for the
people the person who will represent
them or the people themselves?
A report said you sponsored an
attack against a House of
Representatives member, John
Enoh, who is representing Etung/
Obubra Federal Constituency and
vying for a senatorial seat. Is that
the case?
I am a man of peace and I don’t
believe in violence. The report is not
true.
Wouldn’t your refusal to participate
in the rescheduled ward congress in
Cross River State affect your
chances in the next National
Assembly election next year?
Well, I opted out of the election on
my own. I am a lawyer and I have
been in the bar for 36 years and 10
years as a Senior Advocate. So,
going to submit to the congress
when I know for a fact that there
was a case in court would have
been prejudicial to the proceedings
and I must, at every time show
respect to the institution of the
judiciary. So I opted out but the
judgement has now been given so
the congresses can go on. It is just
that the activity that started before
the judgement is what I am worried
about but I thought that we should
have shown more respect to the
judiciary and our judicial process.
Are you thinking of appealing the
judgement or is it in your favour?
The court failed to assume
jurisdiction on the matter but I will
not be appealing. I accept the
judgement of the court.
Why has it been so difficult for tax
payers to know how much senators
earn?
Jesus Christ !! Has a minister told
you how much he or she earns? Has
a permanent secretary told you how
much he or she earns? Has a judge
told you how much he earns? Why
is it that it is the National Assembly
members that should make public
what they earn? Anyway, details of
what we earn are in the public
domain. Our salaries are fixed by the
federal institution in charge of
wages. It is the same body that fixes
salaries for everybody. It is known to
the public. But if you are asking me
about how much it costs me to run
my office, it is a totally different
issue. Have you ever asked a
minister, a permanent secretary or
judicial officer how much it costs
them to run their offices? What I can
tell you is that in the last five or six
years, the budget of the National
Assembly has remained at N150bn
annually. That amount covers our
capital; it covers recurrent, which
includes salaries and allowances of
the senators, members of the House
of Representatives, the bureaucracy
of the entire National Assembly
from the Clerk down to the cleaner.
It also covers the legislative aides of
members of the National Assembly.
It equally covers the National
Assembly Service Commission and
the National Assembly Institute for
Legislative Studies. N150bn is a
fraction of what the country spends
on fuel subsidy. It is a fraction of
what the nation spends on waivers
being granted to businessmen and
companies. N150bn is less than
three per cent of the national
budget. So, why are Nigerians
fixated on three per cent of the
budget and they are not looking at
the 97 per cent? It’s amazing that
three per cent is getting 97 per
cent’s attention. That is what it
means.
You are a SAN, which makes you an
upholder of the law, can you tell us
how much you earn as a senator?
This is my payment details
(presents a document that shows a
net payment of N619, 000 per
month). My salaries are fixed by the
Revenue Mobilisation, Wages and
Fiscal Commission. That is the
guideline for everybody.
How much is your constituency
allowance?
There is nothing like constituency
allowance. There is no such thing. It
exists only in the imagination of the
public.
Why has the senate been silent on
an international embarrassment
involving the Federal Government
laundering money to South Africa?
What is there to talk about? There is
nothing to talk about because it is a
security issue. We should not
discuss security issues just to
grandstand.
There are some loopholes in the
constitution which lawmakers have
not thought about amending, is it
because lawmakers want to be
exploiting them?
The process of amendment is still
on course.
For instance, the Economic and
Financial Crime Commission will
need the permission of the AGF to
prosecute a lawmaker and also
some lawyers have argued for and
against Aminu Tambuwal stepping
down after his defection.
The EFCC requires the consent of the
Attorney-General in every case. It is
not peculiar to the cases involving
the lawmakers alone.
What has happened to the report of
the National Conference?
The national conference was an
initiative of Mr. President. He set up
the conference and the report was
submitted to him. It is left for Mr.
President to determine what he
does with the report.
Do you think that the state of
emergency in Borno, Yobe and
Adamawa states has been justified?
Let me put it back to you as a
Nigerian. Are you satisfied with the
security situation in the North-East?
Then if you are not satisfied with the
security situation there, then
something has to be done. Let us
not play politics with security.
Some people say that you have
reduced the dividend of democracy
and constituency projects to giving
out generators, sewing machines
and the likes, do you think that is
the best that senators can do?
Constituency projects, to my
understanding, are projects that are
secured in the federal budget for
your constituency. People out there
erroneously think that legislators are
given money to go and execute
constituency projects. There is no
such thing. You as a lawmaker
lobby and get projects that would
benefit your constituents, put into
the budget. That is what is called
constituency projects. Any project
by the president from the ministry
would definitely be in somebody’s
constituency. They are called
constituency projects because the
initiative to get them into the budget
is from the legislator. We also have
social responsibility programmes.
For instance, I have a scholarship
scheme. I have a small and
medium scale business initiative
scheme, I have a computer training
programme. Those ones are paid for
from my pocket and I can determine
how I want to spend my money. I
can determine to buy hairdressing
items for people, it is my decision; it
is my money.
After initiating projects in the
budget, how do you ensure that they
are executed?
As lawmakers, we monitor the
projects from the moment they are
accommodated in the budget. The
procurement and execution now
shift to the executive arm. They will
award the contract, they would
supervise and execute. The
lawmaker’s role is just to monitor
and make sure that the project is
completed.
But we heard of cases whereby the
executive deliberately delayed
project execution till the last quarter
of the year only for them to
approach lawmakers for
negotiations on how the amount
voted for the project could be shared
without executing the project?
I am hearing this for the first time.
But if journalists have this evidence,
they will help the society by
publishing it.
Do you think it is justified for the
senate to approve the president’s
$1bn request as a defence budget?
If I think that it is not justified, I
wouldn’t have voted for it to be
approved.
Do you think that the money would
be effectively utilised for that
purpose?
It is for the relevant committees of
the National Assembly to ensure
that.
How have lawmakers imparted on
the people in carrying out their
oversight functions?
We are doing our best but it could
be better. Legislative work requires
experience, so the issue of high
turnover also impacts on oversight.
If you have experienced legislators,
they will oversight well because
they have done it again and again.
They know how to go about it. If he
is a brand new lawmaker, it will
take him years for him to get used
to it. So that is part of the
implication of high turnover.
Is the senate not bothered about the
economy, the fall in Naira and crash
in oil price?
That is purely economics. I don’t
know anything about it.
Is the senate not bothered that we
keep spending billions of naira
annually on subsidy when we can
have efficient refineries in the
country?
First of all, I don’t believe in
subsidy. That has always been my
position.
Is the senate likely to approve the
subsidy already put in the budget
for next year?
I don’t know. I can’t say. But my
position is that I don’t believe in it.
The senate has approved some
amount of money to maintain our
refineries but they are still not
producing up to capacity, do you
think such spending has been
justified?
The relevant committees of the
senate would have answers to that.
Why do some people say you’re
arrogant even though you’re a SAN
and a former Chairman of the
Senate Committee on Human
Rights?
That I am arrogant? Can you
mention one person who had ever
told you that? I won’t know. Why
should I be arrogant? I am not the
party type. I am not the type you
will find in a crowd. If you say I am
arrogant because you will not find
me in a night club or in a party, then
so be it. I once chaired the Media
and Public Affairs committee. So if
anybody should tell me whether I
am arrogant, it should be the media
because they worked with me. So
they should tell me.
There was a report that you once
slapped a security operative for
asking you to identify yourself, do
you think you acted in line with your
position as a SAN?
Jesus Christ !!! I don’t recall ever
slapping anybody since I was born.
Young man, I have my don’ts.

Jesus Christ! OP, and you wan make I read all these letters, you wicked oo.

Which law allowed the police to prevent house speaker from entering the house while the senate president wasn't prevented. Naija...... full of drama since 1960

This thing long o

Simply because they are bunch of touts. Apc, the EMPIRE of evil gathering.

If i read dat tin finish make my a** reduce

Where is APC liarr moh'd to defend the lawmaker fence jumping thugs ? And also recomend fence jumping classes for primary sch. Students