If you had been at Jesus trial, would you have called for his execution like the Jewish crowd? Would you have demanded the freedom of Barabbas instead of Jesus's?

huxley:

If you had been at Jesus trial, would you have called for his execution like the Jewish crowd? Would you have demanded the freedom of Barabbas instead of Jesus's?

What is this Huxley? what are you driving at?

bindex:

What is this Huxley? what are you driving at?

Hello bindex. Think about it for a minute. Which side do you think you might have taken. Then examine all the moral and philosophical implications of you decision in the light of Christian teachings and simple humanistic morality. Hope that helps

C'mon guys, take this one on.

I would have supported jesus because he was harmless, he said some wild and crazy stuff but he wasn't robbing people or killing them. barabas was just a crazy criminal

Yes, I would probably have gone with the crowd.

Big deal?

After all Jesus forgave them, for they knew no what they were doing.

Hows that in the light of Christian teachings and simple humanistic morality?

Dios:

I would have supported jesus because he was harmless, he said some wild and crazy stuff but he wasn't robbing people or killing them. barabas was just a crazy criminal

If you had supported Jesus, resulting in his exoneration, then you would have deprive him of the opportunity of dying to save mankind.

A_K_O:

Yes, I would probably have gone with the crowd.

Big deal?

After all Jesus forgave them, for they knew no what they were doing.

Hows that in the light of Christian teachings and simple humanistic morality?

Now, we can only go with what we are given in the gospels for there are no extra-biblical independent records of this trial.  The gospels present the Roman authorities, in consort with their Jewish subjects as responsible for the trial and crucifixion of Jesus.  Under Jewish law, Jesus would have committed the crime of blasphemy, but because the Romans would have had little interest in prosecuting a Jew for blasphemy, the Jewish authorities present the charge to the Romans as one of seditions and insurrection.  These are political charges and the Romans would have had no compunction putting JEsus on trial under these charges.  Followers of Jesus, however, see him as an innocent man being unfairly prosecuted and executed. Or if you were party to the messianic message, you would have seen Jesus's trial and execution as vital for the salvation of humankind.

Without the benefit of hindsight, this is all the information you would have had as a first century spectator or participant of the events surrounding the trial of Jesus. 

If you would have gone with the Jewish crowd, then you would have been guilty of knowingly bringing an unfair charge against an innocent man, in violation of one of the ten commandments (thou shalt not bear false witness). This also contravenes all forms of humanistic ethics.


You say Jesus forgave them.  Who did Jesus forgive?   All the Romans involved in this arrest, trial and execution?   All the Jews who pressed the charges in the first place?  If you were in the crowd, would you have known that Jesus was going to forgive you?

These forgiven people, are they all likely sitting of the right hand side of Jesus right now, singing his praises?


The history of Christiandom does not suggest that Jesus's message of forgiveness was taken seriously. For ever since the Christians became a strong political and military force, they have persecuted the Jews for having killed their god.  What a bizarre irony! 

They should have been thankful to the Jews for having instigated the killing of Jesus, for without this act their salvation would have been impossible.

The gospels present the Roman authorities, in consort with their Jewish subjects as responsible for the trial and crucifixion of Jesus.

Actually they don't. The gospels absolve the Romans of any responsibility for the death of Christ with the symbolism of Pilate "washing his hands". Although the execution was carried out by the Roman authorities, the Bible makes it clear that they were unwilling participants who were only following the demands of the Jewish Sanhedrin.
The blame was all placed upon the shoulders of the Jews. Hence the reason why they were persecuted for centuries as "Christ-killers".

The history of Christiandom does not suggest that Jesus's message of forgiveness was taken seriously. For ever since the Christians became a strong political and military force, they have persecuted the Jews for having killed their god. What a bizarre irony!

They should have been thankful to the Jews for having instigated the killing of Jesus, for without this act their salvation would have been impossible.

Lol, I never even thought of it like that.
Did it ever cross jesus' mind to appear to Pilate and the soldiers that killed him, I mean if you're going to go through the trouble of getting your a$$ crucified, you might as well make sure enough people saw your resurrected a$$. Then instead of just ascending, just save your followers all the headaches by going to all the other continents and doing the same stunt over and over again.
Then jesus and his father are some egomaniacs, who wants millions of people singing their praises all the time, NON-STOP!!!!!

Common sense tells us this story is

Bastage:

Actually they don't. The gospels absolve the Romans of any responsibility for the death of Christ with the symbolism of Pilate "washing his hands". Although the execution was carried out by the Roman authorities, the Bible makes it clear that they were unwilling participants who were only following the demands of the Jewish Sanhedrin.
The blame was all placed upon the shoulders of the Jews. Hence the reason why they were persecuted for centuries as "Christ-killers".

You should read the "washing of hands" narrative with a great deal of skepticism.  Most scholars of the NT think this is theological and political sleight of hand  (pun unintended).  If we assume that such a trial took place, then some of the details of the story appear implausible:

For a start, the inclusion in the narrative of the character called Barabbas and Pilates attempt to have him executed instead of Jesus.  There are simple no records of such clemency being granted for criminals on the day of passover.

Secondly, this narrative is not in keeping with the known character of Pilate.  Pilate was a particularly brutal governor of Palestine, known for brutally suppressing all forms of insurrections by killing and crucifying hundreds at a time.  To think that a relatively poor, unknown peasant from the hills of Palestine would prick his conscience to the extent described in the gospel is not in keeping with his character.  Note that Pilate was recalled to Rome for having killed thousands in a single act that the Jews complained to Rome.   I doubt he would have given two seconds of thought to Jesus.

Thirdly, the "washing of the hand" is a characteristically Jewish symbollic act.  I doubt a Roman governor would have engage in this.


Now, what motivated this sleight of hand by the christian writers?  You have to realise that the christians were keen to develop and maintain good relations with their Roman rulers.  As such, it was important that their doctrine absolves the Romans of the culpability of the death of their god.  So they wrote the story in such a way as to exonerate the Romans and incriminate the Jew instead.

Dios:

The history of Christiandom does not suggest that Jesus's message of forgiveness was taken seriously. For ever since the Christians became a strong political and military force, they have persecuted the Jews for having killed their god. What a bizarre irony!

They should have been thankful to the Jews for having instigated the killing of Jesus, for without this act their salvation would have been impossible.

Lol, I never even thought of it like that.
Did it ever cross jesus' mind to appear to Pilate and the soldiers that killed him, I mean if you're going to go through the trouble of getting your a$$ crucified, you might as well make sure enough people saw your resurrected a$$. Then instead of just ascending, just save your followers all the headaches by going to all the other continents and doing the same stunt over and over again.
Then jesus and his father are some egomaniacs, who wants millions of people singing their praises all the time, NON-STOP!!!!!

Common sense tells us this story is

Good point. There are in fact some Christian documents that depict Jesus appearing to Pilate. Admittedly, these documents were disregarded by the compilers of the NT, but the fact that Christians would go to such length to give the religion credibility reveals the depths of their depravity.

Yo Huxley, what's manchester like, I'm visiting England next spring/summer.

Dios:

Yo Huxley, what's manchester like, I'm visiting England next spring/summer.

Manchester is great. I have lived here for about 12 years and in other cities (Cambridge & Southamption) in the UK, but my favorite is Manchester. It has everything you want for a good life. Great social, intellectual, sporting scene.

Whereabouts are you based?

Dios:

The history of Christiandom does not suggest that Jesus's message of forgiveness was taken seriously. For ever since the Christians became a strong political and military force, they have persecuted the Jews for having killed their god. What a bizarre irony!

They should have been thankful to the Jews for having instigated the killing of Jesus, for without this act their salvation would have been impossible.

Lol, I never even thought of it like that.
Did it ever cross jesus' mind to appear to Pilate and the soldiers that killed him, I mean if you're going to go through the trouble of getting your a$$ crucified, you might as well make sure enough people saw your resurrected a$$. Then instead of just ascending, just save your followers all the headaches by going to all the other continents and doing the same stunt over and over again.
Then jesus and his father are some egomaniacs, who wants millions of people singing their praises all the time, NON-STOP!!!!!

Common sense tells us this story is

Interesting.

huxley:

Good point. There are in fact some Christian documents that depict Jesus appearing to Pilate. Admittedly, these documents were disregarded by the compilers of the NT, but the fact that Christians would go to such length to give the religion credibility reveals the depths of their depravity.

The point you made was talked about in a documentary I watched on the history channel sometime ago(can't remember the name).

Dios:

The history of Christiandom does not suggest that Jesus's message of forgiveness was taken seriously. For ever since the Christians became a strong political and military force, they have persecuted the Jews for having killed their god. What a bizarre irony!

They should have been thankful to the Jews for having instigated the killing of Jesus, for without this act their salvation would have been impossible.

Lol, I never even thought of it like that.
Did it ever cross jesus' mind to appear to Pilate and the soldiers that killed him, I mean if you're going to go through the trouble of getting your a$$ crucified, you might as well make sure enough people saw your resurrected a$$. Then instead of just ascending, just save your followers all the headaches by going to all the other continents and doing the same stunt over and over again.
Then jesus and his father are some egomaniacs, who wants millions of people singing their praises all the time, NON-STOP!!!!!

Common sense tells us this story is

after reading this - only one word come to mind. [size=18pt] TOSH[/size]
Seriously, what you wrote is utter tosh

Why would any sane person let Jesus die?
I thought he fed 5000 of them surely their voices would be heard too.

Coupled with the fact that he healed and performed exorcism on a lot of them.

huxley:

Manchester is great. I have lived here for about 12 years and in other cities (Cambridge & Southamption) in the UK, but my favorite is Manchester. It has everything you want for a good life. Great social, intellectual, sporting scene.

Whereabouts are you based?

Iraq , but I'm from texas.

Cayon:

after reading this - only one word come to mind. [size=18pt] TOSH[/size]
Seriously, what you wrote is utter tosh

TOSH!!!!!!, TOSH?
What I wrote is not utter tosh[size=8pt][/size][font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font][color=#990000][/color]

What the f*ck does TOSH mean anyway?

You should read the "washing of hands" narrative with a great deal of skepticism.  Most scholars of the NT think this is theological and political sleight of hand  (pun unintended).  If we assume that such a trial took place, then some of the details of the story appear implausible

Your question had to be taken in the context of the gospels and from that context one can only infer that the Romans were innocent.

Further statements using outside sources may give you the result that you've stated but in this instance, that is irrelevant. It's not possible to base one piece of speculation upon another and then state that this is what the gospels say.


For the record though, looking at historical evidence, I believe that if Jesus did exist and if he was crucified, the Romans were probably the sole guilty party and the Jews, at the very most, onlookers. As one of the biggest buyers of the new religion of Christianity was the Roman Empire, it's only logical that a "white-wash" would occur, even though evidence points to their culpability.
One cannot assert that the gospels "present" this theory though. It's only after studying other historical writings and placing them in conjunction with the gospels that one can come to a conclusion. Just as with your claim.

Alot of things have changed since that time. Now there is freedom of speech.I will tell them to free him and let him go on the condition that he never steps his foot ten miles near the temple again least to talk of calling it HIS FATHERS HOUSE.(we sabi im papa now. no be that carpentar?)

Dios:

TOSH!!!!!!, TOSH?
What I wrote is not utter tosh

What the f*ck does TOSH mean anyway]?

Foolish nonsense or silly talk or writing
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tosh

And stop using the "eF" word in the Religion section.  don't care if you use the eF word on me in another section - but respect the Religion section nuh.  what say you?

Peace

Cayon:

Foolish nonsense or silly talk or writing
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tosh

And stop using the "eF" word in the Religion section. don't care if you use the eF word on me in another section - but respect the Religion section nuh. what say you?

Peace

Thanks fortelling me what tosh means.
As for the other request about the "eF" word. F*ck it, I won't use it again.

If Jesus was really pre-ordained to be crucified, his death having been organised by himself, then his death was in effect suicide, or more specifically suicide-by-soldiers. What is the Christian position on suicide?

huxley:

If Jesus was really pre-ordained to be crucified, his death having been organised by himself, then his death was in effect suicide, or more specifically suicide-by-soldiers. What is the Christian position on suicide?

Huxley.