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Would You Worship Another Human Being? - Religion - Nairaland

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Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Riskie(f): 9:38pm On Jan 09, 2009
Christians asks many questions of Muslims like "Do you believe Allah is a real God?", "What has your Allah done for you?", "Why did your Prophet do this and that?". I think the Muslims have done a decent job trying to answer these questions but I have several questions for the Christ-worshippers.

1) Isn't Jesus a human being?
2) Can you explain the "Holy" Trinity in a way that it would make sense?
3) Do you believe idol worship ie praying to statues and figures is wrong? If so why do you do it?
4) Would you worship your fellow man? If not, why worship Jesus, isn't he human?
5) Why do you worship Mary, the human mother of Jesus?

These questions were never answered all the years I took religon class at various Catholic schools. I don't know everything about my own faith either but I do know I am worshipping one supreme being and I think that is the most important.

Thanks in advance. Hope I get some actual answers. smiley
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Graxie(f): 11:46am On Jan 11, 2009
ANSWERS
1. JESUS IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, HE IS GOD

2. IT MEANS IT HAS BEEN ANSWERED BEFORE, IT IS JUST THAT YOU WANT IT TO MAKE SENSE. YOU HAVE CONCLUDED(MADE UP MIND) BEFORE ASKING.

3. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS PRAY TO IDOLS OR STATUES AND IT IS WRONG TO PRAY TO IDOLS.

4.NO, YOU DIDN'T WAIT FOR THE ANSWER BEFORE CONCLUDING

5. I DON'T WORSHIP MARY, FROM YOUR QUESTION, IT MEANS YOU KNOW THAT JESUS HAVE A SPIRITUAL FATHER SINCE MARY IS HIS HUMAN MOTHER.
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by babs787(m): 8:10pm On Jan 11, 2009
@Graxie

Do you have facts to support his being your God?
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by babs787(m): 8:14pm On Jan 11, 2009
@Graxie

Do you have facts to support his being your God? Please furnish me with your trinity and we look at it in the bible together and you may still provide me where others before Jesus preached same as Jesus couldnt have brought message different from those before him. cool
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Magz(m): 8:31pm On Jan 11, 2009
Riskie:

Christians asks many questions of Muslims like "Do you believe Allah is a real God?", "What has your Allah done for you?", "Why did your Prophet do this and that?". I think the Muslims have done a decent job trying to answer these questions but I have several questions for the Christ-worshippers.

1) Isn't Jesus a human being?
2) Can you explain the "Holy" Trinity in a way that it would make sense?
3) Do you believe idol worship ie praying to statues and figures is wrong? If so why do you do it?
4) Would you worship your fellow man? If not, why worship Jesus, isn't he human?
5) Why do you worship Mary, the human mother of Jesus?

These questions were never answered all the years I took religon class at various Catholic schools. I don't know everything about my own faith either but I do know I am worshipping one supreme being and I think that is the most important.

Thanks in advance. Hope I get some actual answers. smiley

Excellent post. These are exactly the reasons that I've never allowed myself to be brainwashed into being a "Christian".
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Riskie(f): 8:31pm On Jan 11, 2009
Graxie:

ANSWERS
1. JESUS IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, HE IS GOD

2. IT MEANS IT HAS BEEN ANSWERED BEFORE, IT IS JUST THAT YOU WANT IT TO MAKE SENSE. YOU HAVE CONCLUDED(MADE UP MIND) BEFORE ASKING.

3. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS PRAY TO IDOLS OR STATUES AND IT IS WRONG TO PRAY TO IDOLS.

4.NO, YOU DIDN'T WAIT FOR THE ANSWER BEFORE CONCLUDING

5. I DON'T WORSHIP MARY, FROM YOUR QUESTION, IT MEANS YOU KNOW THAT JESUS HAVE A SPIRITUAL FATHER SINCE MARY IS HIS HUMAN MOTHER.


U have replied with the same BS I've been hearing all my life. No straight answers, just beating around the bush. TYPICAL. Your religion doesn't even make sense to you. Continue to worship your blond haired, blue eyed "lord and saviour". You people have no answers for anything yet u flood the Islam for Muslims section asking all kinds of retarded questions. Maybe you should question your own faith first.
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Magz(m): 8:47pm On Jan 11, 2009
Graxie:

ANSWERS
1. JESUS IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, HE IS GOD

2. IT MEANS IT HAS BEEN ANSWERED BEFORE, IT IS JUST THAT YOU WANT IT TO MAKE SENSE. YOU HAVE CONCLUDED(MADE UP MIND) BEFORE ASKING.

3. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS PRAY TO IDOLS OR STATUES AND IT IS WRONG TO PRAY TO IDOLS.

4.NO, YOU DIDN'T WAIT FOR THE ANSWER BEFORE CONCLUDING

5. I DON'T WORSHIP MARY, FROM YOUR QUESTION, IT MEANS YOU KNOW THAT JESUS HAVE A SPIRITUAL FATHER SINCE MARY IS HIS HUMAN MOTHER.


This is how people typically respond to these questions, but I have big problems with your answers:


First of all, in the Bible wasn't one of God's commandments: "Thou shall put no other god before me"? God is the creator of the universe and all within it. No man was capable of this.

How could Jesus be God, if the Universe was already in existence before Jesus ever came about? The world was already here. Humanity was already here. How then, could Jesus be the creator?

If Jesus is God, why was he not immortal. How were humans able to crucify him?

Christians teach that anyone who does not worship and praise Jesus Christ will be sentenced to eternal fire and damnation. However, this totally contradicts the loving nature and mericful tendencies of our Father. Why would the all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving God destroy his people and subject them to supreme enending torture because of ignorance or because of their upbringing? This makes no sense whatsoever.

You say that praying to an idol is wrong. I think that praying to Jesus is the same as praying to an idol. It is as if you are belittling the one and true God. The one true "Lord" of all "lords". God cannot be seen with the physical eye. We cannot put a face to him, or draw him, or explain him. We did not create God, he created us. So to pray to Christ, in my opinion is worshipping an idol;

Now I do know that Christ existed, and I do live Christ-like (the actual meaning of the word Christian anyways), But I will not ever pray to any man, rather it be Christ, Selassie or anyone else. To do so is a direct and odvious sin. It clearly says so right in the Bible!!
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by olabowale(m): 8:53pm On Jan 11, 2009
@Graxie: « #1 on: Today at 11:46:44 AM »  

ANSWERS
1. JESUS IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, HE IS GOD

I laughed hard, when I read the answer, above,

Graxie; when Jesus bled from the several cuts inflicted on him, was he bleeding blood because he was a human being or God? I wonder if anyone bleeds, it is not a sign of his humanness? I am wondering. **Osisi, help me analyse it. From Medical point of view.




2. IT MEANS IT HAS BEEN ANSWERED BEFORE, IT IS JUST THAT YOU WANT IT TO MAKE SENSE. YOU HAVE CONCLUDED(MADE UP MIND)  BEFORE ASKING.

3. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS PRAY TO IDOLS OR STATUES AND IT IS WRONG TO PRAY TO IDOLS.

Some pray to Idols, though. The Catholics, in particular in their reverence of Virgin Mary. Tell the wrongness statement to them.




4.NO, YOU DIDN'T WAIT FOR THE ANSWER BEFORE CONCLUDING

5. I DON'T WORSHIP MARY, FROM YOUR QUESTION, IT MEANS YOU KNOW THAT JESUS HAVE A SPIRITUAL FATHER SINCE MARY IS HIS HUMAN MOTHER

Her statement does not indicate that she agrees that Jesus has a spiritual father. rather she put the onous on you, the Christian to recognize that Jesus has a human mother, hence Jesus was a human being, a prophet and nothing more. That is contrary to your hypothetic belief. A person can not have a human mother and then, suddenly he must have a spiritual father, just because there is no human father! Is God not capable of creating human in any way He wishes, to show the sign of His Power?

This is the case of creating Jesus with a mother only, without a human male.
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Bobbyaf(m): 11:15pm On Jan 11, 2009
@ Riskie

Christians asks many questions of Muslims like "Do you believe Allah is a real God?", "What has your Allah done for you?", "Why did your Prophet do this and that?". I think the Muslims have done a decent job trying to answer these questions but I have several questions for the Christ-worshippers.

Well as a Christian I will try to answer your questions as best as I can.

1) Isn't Jesus a human being?

Yes he is human.

2) Can you explain the "Holy" Trinity in a way that it would make sense?

Firstly, not all Christians agree on the doctrine of the Trinity. Its a term coined by the Catholics to explain the unity of three persons making up the GodHead. It so happens that that is one doctrine I have come to understand more, and not because the Catholics taught it, but because the word of God supports it. John 3:16 says in summary that God loved the world and gave His Only Son to die in our place so that eternal life can be granted to those who believe.

3) Do you believe idol worship ie praying to statues and figures is wrong? If so why do you do it?

Not all Christians worship as Catholics.

4) Would you worship your fellow man? If not, why worship Jesus, isn't he human?

God has forbidden humans to worship other humans. We worship Jesus because He is both God and human. He is 100% God, and He is 100% human. I know it sounds a bit confusing, but before Jesus became human He and the Father shared the same glory. They both had the same title - GOD.

But God the SON couldn't die so He divested Himself of all that glory so that He could become one of us. That was the only way to identify with the fallen race. So in human form He was tempted, and had the limitations just like humans. His nature was the post-fall nature. He wasn't like Adam who hadn't a nature to sin. Christ was born with the propensity to sin like anyone of us, but He chose not to.

Adam was made perfect and never felt the rigors of temptation that those of us felt and still feel after the fall. Yet Adam chose to sin because he felt he couldn't do without Eve.

So the bible depicts Christ as the 2nd Adam who could have sinned if He wanted to. He too had a choice. If Christ couldn't sin then what kind of example would He be? He'd be a fake. In other words God His Father didn't grant His Son any special favors. Jesus like us had to learn to depend on His Father in all things, and that is why having passed the test that Adam failed, we can depend on Him to strengthen us. If we do as Jesus did we too can pass the test with flying colors.


5) Why do you worship Mary, the human mother of Jesus?


That is a Catholic problem.

These questions were never answered all the years I took religon class at various Catholic schools. I don't know everything about my own faith either but I do know I am worshipping one supreme being and I think that is the most important.

I understand your position Riskie. Catholic schools were never designed to teach holy scriptures because their traditions are not supported by the bible. So you cannot rely on them to be effective in presenting the bible.

Thanks in advance. Hope I get some actual answers. Smiley

I hope I helped.
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Magz(m): 3:49am On Jan 12, 2009
Bobbyaf:

God has forbidden humans to worship other humans. We worship Jesus because He is both God and human. He is 100% God, and He is 100% human. I know it sounds a bit confusing, but before Jesus became human He and the Father shared the same glory. They both had the same title - GOD.

But God the SON couldn't die so He divested Himself of all that glory so that He could become one of us. That was the only way to identify with the fallen race. So in human form He was tempted, and had the limitations just like humans. His nature was the post-fall nature. He wasn't like Adam who hadn't a nature to sin. Christ was born with the propensity to sin like anyone of us, but He chose not to.

Adam was made perfect and never felt the rigors of temptation that those of us felt and still feel after the fall. Yet Adam chose to sin because he felt he couldn't do without Eve.

So the bible depicts Christ as the 2nd Adam who could have sinned if He wanted to. He too had a choice. If Christ couldn't sin then what kind of example would He be? He'd be a fake. In other words God His Father didn't grant His Son any special favors. Jesus like us had to learn to depend on His Father in all things, and that is why having passed the test that Adam failed, we can depend on Him to strengthen us. If we do as Jesus did we too can pass the test with flying colors.

No offense, but this does not make any sense at all. I was raised as a Baptist Christian, and this contradictory stuff here is the exact reason that I no longer identify with the Christian faith. You say, in essence, that there are two Gods: One, the divine creator of Heaven, Earth and everything within, and the second a man who came directly from the Creator, is the Creator, but yet is not the creator. I know in my heart that this is not right.
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Bobbyaf(m): 7:48am On Jan 12, 2009
@ Magz

No offense, but this does not make any sense at all. I was raised as a Baptist Christian, and this contradictory stuff here is the exact reason that I no longer identify with the Christian faith.


I know it doesn't make sense, but it is true. To some the GodHead is quite a mystery. The bible says "great is the mystery of Godliness"

You say, in essence, that there are two Gods:

No I didn't say that. There is One God. The term God is a title.

One, the divine creator of Heaven, Earth and everything within, and the second a man who came directly from the Creator, is the Creator, but yet is not the creator. I know in my heart that this is not right.

They are the same person. It was Christ who created all things according to John 1, but John said in verse 14 that that Creator became human.

John 1:1-3 say "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Word was with God, and the Word is also God. This denotes two distinct persons.

2 "The same was in the beginning with God."

They both existed together.

3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

So Christ indeed made all things. He was the agent of creation.

Now verse 14 says, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Then as you know He took on flesh, or He became human. Please allow me to ask of you a few questions.

1. Did He lose His status/privilege as God to become human?

2. Was He still God while He was human, but was not allowed to use His powers?

What I am about to share with you is very deep theology. You can either agree or disagree, but I want you to see exactly what I am trying to say.

For anyone to understand the plan of salvation without the least of confusion it is important to fully understand why God had to send His ONLY-BEGOTTEN SON in the first place. Before I explain let me revisit some things we have taken for granted:

1. God is love

2. God is just and fair

3. God is omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.

4. God has no beginning, or end and is not restricted by time and space.

5. His righteous principles and truth are absolute.

Now why did Jesus had to come here in the first place? Because of sin, correct? Now who was the first sinner? Lucifer of course. One of God's smartest and brightest angels developed the folly to rebel, but he didn't rebel overnight. The feelings of pride and selfishness gradually grew in him.

Did God knew that Lucifer would eventually rebel? Of course He did since He is Omniscient, correct? Was God caught off guard? Absolutely not!

Could God have prevented sin, or put another way, could God have created Lucifer or any of His creatures in a way to prevent them from sinning? Well, since He is God he could have done anything He desired, correct?

Does God know something that we don't know about evil, and where did evil come from if God is so holy and good? I am yet to find a person who knows what is really going on. All I know is that God had a plan, and still does have a plan.

It seems that part of God's divine plan was to potentially allow evil to lurk behind the scenes. I believe that evil existed in a potential state, but could only have been activated by the wrong choice, at any point in time, by any of His intelligent created beings. I believe that God made all His creatures aware of the possibility of evil manifesting itself, and He protected them through His absolute laws that act as a guide. In other words if Lucifer had listened to God's voice and stay within the border of safety He would not have reached the point of rebellion.

Three prophets describe the scenario. two from the OT, and one from the NT.

Isaiah. 14:12-14 say, "12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Did you see what Lucifer's intention was? Have you seen how many times he said I? Here was an angelic creature trying to usurp God's throne, and government. Was he crazy?

Listen to another writer.

Ezekiel 28:13-15 say, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Wow! Lucifer was an anointed Cherub. He was in the immediate presence of God. He was specially created to provide exquisite music, and it is believed that he was a choir master. Why did such a beautiful angel rebel that had everything at his disposal? The bible calls it the mystery of iniquity. Was this a way to test the free will of His creatures?

Now Lucifer it seems had gotten himself some other angels to side with him, and that is when things took a turn for the worse. John in Revelation 12 puts the pieces together. He describes a war where Michael (Christ) and His angels fought Lucifer and his angels. Lucifer had gotten 1/3 of the angelic host to distrust God. It seems they had a problem with how God administered things. Lucifer felt that God was not being fair to him, and that he Lucifer deserved more power and attention.

The logical question is, why didn't God destroy Lucifer instantaneously? That is because Lucifer questioned God's character, and if God had zapped him and the other rebel angels out of existence, then what kinds of questions would linger in the remaining angels' minds? A lot of questions. Could Lucifer have been right in questioning God's right to rule? Do you see where I am heading with this? So God allowed Lucifer to live in order to prove his case. He was kicked out of heaven with his rebel angels to build a case against God.

Who would Lucifer take his case to? This is where a lot of people are going to call me crazy. Well, he had several worlds to visit. Each world was made by the same Creator, and each world had a leader who was placed in charge. Just before the rebellion it is believed that Lucifer was a witness to the creation of earth. It seems that earth opened a way for Lucifer to prove his case, because like Lucifer Adam and Eve disobeyed God's instructions. Although God had taught Adam and Eve the way they like Lucifer were not exempt from sinning. They were free moral agents and they too had a choice. They now became sinners like Lucifer. Adam sinned because he loved Eve. Eve sinned because she was deceived. Lucifer got Eve to distrust God's word by appealing to her desire to be wiser and more knowledgeable which God was denying her.

What would God do now? His righteous law was broken and it could only be satisfied by the death of the sinner. Lucifer knew he'd die one day, and he desired to bring others with him. He was bent on destroying humans at any opportunity.

The divine plan of redemption was that since God could not change His perfect law to accommodate sin, then the lawgiver would have to die in the sinner's place. That lawgiver was Christ Himself who had created Adam and Eve. It was He who laid out the plan to Adam, Eve, and even reminded Satan what his fate would be one day. Christ had promised Adam, and Eve that through their seed He would come as the Messiah in the flesh to teach the way of God and to restore righteousness, and ultimately destroy Satan, his angels, sin and sinners.

What most people fail to see is that Christ had to divest Himself of divinity fully, and clothe with humanity fully. His mission was to reveal who the Father truly was. His test was to truly represent His Father's way and truth, and prove to those cosmic witnesses, and including us on earth, that God's law and justice can be trusted. Christ became fully human and will forever remain a human even though He is fully God. He will never go back to what He truly was before He became one of us. Most Christians have not been taught the true mission of Christ because they fail to see that His life was just as important as His death on Calvary. If Christ had failed then Satan would have been proven right, and the Son of God would have been Himself lost. Sounds sacrilegious doesn't it?

Jesus now has a body that has been glorified. He is not a spirit. In the earth made new after sin is destroyed all of God's redeemed will be able to touch Christ, and commune with Him. We will be able to see and touch one another as well because we too will possess glorified flesh. Soon this will be a reality when our vile body will become like His according to Paul. We will be changed. This curruptible will put on incurruption, and as John says we shall see Him as He is.
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by sammyzacks(m): 5:40pm On Jan 12, 2009
1) Isn't Jesus a human being? He was God appearing in human form. While on earth he was 100% man. Now in heaven he is 100% God.

2) Can you explain the "Holy" Trinity in a way that it would make sense? Trinity is not a biblical word. But God created the heaven and the earth, He became flesh in the person of Jesus to save the world from sin, He fellowships with men today in the person of the Holy Spirit.

3) Do you believe idol worship i.e praying to statues and figures is wrong? If so why do you do it? Idol worship is sin.Catholics got it wrong there.

4) Would you worship your fellow man? If not, why worship Jesus, isn't he human? He is God! worship him while you have the opprtunity before its late.

5) Why do you worship Mary, the human mother of Jesus? Again, the Catholics got it wrong there.

Thank you.
Re: Would You Worship Another Human Being? by Nobody: 8:47pm On Jan 12, 2009
Riskie:

1) Isn't Jesus a human being?

Even your quran acknowledges that Christ was born of a virgin birth. Can you explain how a mere human being could be born by a virgin without the biological process of reproduction?

Riskie:

2) Can you explain the "Holy" Trinity in a way that it would make sense?

Very simple - the same God who revealed Himself as Jehovah the Father in the old testament, took on human flesh and was "born" as a man . . . the sacrifice for our sins and was called the Son". The same God now back in the spirit shed abroad in our hearts as the Holy Ghost.

Riskie:

3) Do you believe idol worship ie praying to statues and figures is wrong? If so why do you do it?

why then do you bow down to a qiblah?

Riskie:

4) Would you worship your fellow man? If not, why worship Jesus, isn't he human?

We don't worship man, we worship God who once was born in form of a man but now is risen and sits on His throne as God.

Riskie:

5) Why do you worship Mary, the human mother of Jesus?

We don't. such nonsense is not found anywhere in the bible.

Are these the "questions"? I was honestly looking for more challenging issues.

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