Before I start, I would like to clarify a few things.

I'm not a religious person, neither am I an atheist. I believe in the supernatural, atleast the possibility of some phenoma that can't be explain satisfactorily by science. Take for instance, just last year my cousin woke up from a nightmare with weird scratches on his face. How do you explain that, heh?

I also believe that people make their own luck, in the sense that you wake up each morning and your life will play out exactly as you wish. Some religious fanatics might disagree with this by quoting this age old adage; Commit to the lord whatever you seek and your plans will succeed. - translating to "God controls your destiny"

Really? How come the world richest people are overwhelmingly unreligious, heh? Their plans did succeed quite well on your own sweat, thank you very much. Shakespeare said something on that and believe me, it was quite inspirational and blew the previous quote out of the water; 'It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.

Need I say more? Okay, now I'm digressing...

The point I'm trying to make is that even though existence of God is inconclusive, and purely based on speculations, it doesn't eliminate the threat of the supernatural. Weird, inexplicable things happen everyday, and no matter how intelligent and reasonable you are, you wouldn't be able to explain how someone could wake up coughing up blood, after getting stabbed in the chest in a nightmare.

So I'm throwing the floor open on all people of all denominations. Where do you stand on the Supernatural?

Does believing in it make you religious or superstitious or simply realistic? Or it is just another figment of our imaginations? Let's hear your thoughts, people.

There is nothing superstitious about supernatural or spiritual beings. They are real! And real as it can be they do exist but are invisible to the naked eyes.
Op except you're not a Nigerian if u're still having any doubt about it.
Well wait for the opinion of others... Am outta Nl for nw

...just last year my cousin woke up from a nightmare with weird scratches on his face. How do you explain that, heh?

Wow! You must be a great philosopher. This is your basis for believing in the supernatural? That's so wonderful, You must be Mahatma Gandhi.

I also believe that people make their own luck, in the sense that you wake up each morning and your life will play out exactly as you wish. Some religious fanatics might disagree with this by quoting this age old adage; Commit to the lord whatever you seek and your plans will succeed. - translating to "God controls your destiny"

And you need to believe in the supernatural to know this? really? Honestly It is best you go back to being religious, it fits you better.

Idrismusty97:
Wow! You must be a great philosopher. This is your basis for believing in the supernatural? That's so wonderful, You must be Mahatma Gandhi.

And you need to believe in the supernatural to know this? really? Honestly It is best you go back to being religious, it fits you better.

I'm at a crossroads here, man. That's the whole point of creating this topic which being "where one stands on the issue of the supernatural". Let's try not to judge, okay? So where do you stand?

Dnarvaez:
There is nothing superstitious about supernatural or spiritual beings. They are real! And real is it can be they do exist but are invisible to the naked eyes.
Op except you're not a Nigerian if u're still having any doubt about it.
Well wait for the opinion of others... Am outta Nl for nw

If they are invisible to the naked eyes, then how did you so easily surmised that they exist at all. I mean, how can you tell?

koice:


I'm at a crossroads here, man. That's the whole point of creating this topic which being "where one stands on the issue of the supernatural". Let's try not to judge, okay? So where do you stand?

We all passed through this phase. I don't believe in the supernatural, we Africans attribute anything we can't explained to be supernatural. I believe discoveries can be made, so called "Extraordinary occurrence" can be checkmate and explained logically. Remember malaria was once supernatural occurrence, a curse by the gods?

Idrismusty97:
We all passed through this phase. I don't believe in the supernatural, we Africans attribute anything we can't explained to be supernatural. I believe discoveries can be made, so called "Extraordinary occurrence" can be checkmate and explained logically. Remember malaria was once supernatural occurrence, a curse by the gods?

True in theory, but let's not be too hasty here. There is something known as 'the placebo effect' whereby one can be cured by the power of his mind, simply by feeding him a little lie. Scientists are still baffled as to how this happens.

koice:


True in theory, but let's not be too hasty here. There is something known as 'the placebo effect' whereby one can be cured by the power of his mind, simply by feeding him a little lie. Scientists are still baffled as to how this happens.

I have always known a Positive mental attitude can conquer all...I don't know how the placebo effect correlates with the spiritual. Even lots of Success books presumably written by Atheists/Freethinkers recommend wearing a positive attitude in facing your problems. I don't know much about the placebo effect anyway, you have given me something to learn about.

koice:


If they are invisible to the naked eyes, then how did you so easily surmised that they exist at all. I mean, how can you tell?

Do u believe God and satan exists? If yes, then those beings whatsover also exist and they're of different forms and dimension. Even at times we hear people talk about ancestral spirits (their fore-fathers), becoz they believe somehow that the spirits of their long dead ancestors lingers on and they now reside in an imaginary world different from ours.

Dnarvaez:

Do u believe God and satan exists? If yes, then those beings whatsover also exist and they're of different forms and dimension. Even at times we hear people talk about ancestral spirits (their fore-fathers), becoz they believe somehow that the spirits of their long dead ancestors lingers on and they now reside in an imaginary world different from ours.

Beliefs can't tell the reality of things....
And placebo effects aren't a daunting problem for scientists...it has it's limits...I.e hiv/aids,limb regrowth, etc

If you look at the world today, the western world apply scrutinization and scientific method to explain occurrences and phenomenons they yet don't understand. unlike africans who are always very quick to term any event they dont understand to be supernatural whereas just a little bit of research and scrutinization can prove otherwise. But we are too lazy for that

If you watched this movie Thor Jane said "Magic may be science we yet dont understand"

Just like Idrismusty97 pointed out, malaria was once regarded as supernatural because humans didnt understand it then.

placebo effect is just a mental positive influence, the mind can be our greatest ally or our greatest foe. Take for instance when we were kids, we were scared of the supernatural and dreaded climbing the stairs in the dark because we thought one spirit might be there but that fear was just a thing of the mind which made us think something is there, but growing up we stopped being scared of that because we no longer think or believe in that crap.

This is exactly what faith healers use, they make it seem so sure that you are healed thereby instilling that sure mindset into you which can take effect. remember the mind is a product of the brain which is a part of the body that controls mostly all activities..


Op your sibling waking with a scratch on the face is a very normal occurrence that isn't hard to propose a hypothesis that suits it. e.g The scratch may be because he/she scratched her face during sleep (we all know this is an involuntary action that happens during sleep.)

Supernatural as claimed by so many religions and superstitious brouhaha are yet to be proved or even can be demonstrated.
Their isn't much to suggest the existence of supernatural, all we get is people attributing natural events they dont fully grasp as supernatural.

I am yet to see a substantiated claim of the supernatural or ghost ish, i see them just as superstitious yarns if not the James Randi million dollar paranormal challenge wouldn't have still be on stake for more than 50years now..

johnydon22:
If you look at the world today, the western world apply scrutinization and scientific to explain occurrences and phenomenons they yet don't understand. unlike africans who are always very quick to term any event they dont understand to be supernatural whereas just a little bit of research and scrutinization can prove otherwise. But we are too lazy for that

If you watched this movie Thor Jane said "Magic may be science we yet dont understand"

Just like Idrismusty97 pointed out, malaria was once regarded as supernatural because humans didnt understand it then.

placebo effect is just a mental positive influence, the mind can be our greatest ally or our greatest foe. Take for instance when we were kids, we were scared of the supernatural and dreaded climbing the stairs in the dark because we thought one spirit might be there but that fear was just a thing of the mind which made us think something is there, but growing up we stopped being scared of that because we no longer think or believe in that crap.

This is exactly what faith healers use, they make it seem so sure that you are healed thereby instilling that sure mindset into you which can take effect. remember the mind is a product of the brain which is a part of the body that controls mostly all activities..


Op your sibling waking with a scratch on the face is a very normal occurrence that isn't hard to propose a hypothesis that suits it. e.g The scratch may be because he/she scratched her face during sleep (we all know this is an involuntary action that happens during sleep.)

Supernatural as claimed by so many religions and superstitious brouhaha are yet to be proved or even can be demonstrated.
Their isn't much to suggest the existence of supernatural, all we get is people attributing natural events they dont fully grasp as supernatural.

I am yet to see a substantiated claim of the supernatural or ghost ish, i see them just as superstitious yarns if not the James Randi million dollar paranormal challenge wouldn't have still be on stake for more than 50years now..

try astral projection and your perspective of life will change

omat20:
try astral projection and your perspective of life will change

am curious, have you done it before?

koice:


True in theory, but let's not be too hasty here. There is something known as 'the placebo effect' whereby one can be cured by the power of his mind, simply by feeding him a little lie. Scientists are still baffled as to how this happens.

I'm surprised you attributed placebos to supernatural.

davien:
Beliefs can't tell the reality of things....
And placebo effects aren't a daunting problem for scientists...it has it's limits...I.e hiv/aids,limb regrowth, etc

Now don't get me wrong
matters relating to spirituality differs entirely from Science & technology,, both can never be on same ground. If so how then were the so called scientists not able to determine completely how the earth looks like. No! They couldn't
Their facts were plainly based on mere assumptions.
Even as humans we do believe in some kind of unexplainable spirituality.
people with no family roots/background, especially Non-Africans, are the ones who would banter and argue about beliefs.

Dnarvaez:

Now don't get me wrong
matters relating to spirituality differs entirely from Science & technology,, both can never be on same ground. If so how then were the so called scientists not able to determine completely how the earth looks like. No! They couldn't
Their facts were plainly based on mere assumptions.
Even as humans we do believe in some kind of unexplainable spirituality.
people with no family roots/background, especially Non-Africans, are the ones who would banter and argue about beliefs.

what

johnydon22:

what

what? Huh?

Dnarvaez:

what? Huh?

Dude am really hoping you are not serious? We now have pictures of nebulas, galaxies thousands of light years away, different extra-terrestrial planets orbiting their parent stars. Many satelites and the international space station orbiting the earth. and you really said this

scientists not able to determine completely how the earth looks like. No!
They couldn't
Their facts were plainly based on mere assumptions.

Woooow thats surprising...

johnydon22:


Dude am really hoping you are not serious? We now have pictures of nebulas, galaxies thousands of light years away, different extra-terrestrial planets orbiting their parent stars. Many satelites and the international space station orbiting the earth. and you really said this


Woooow thats surprising...

Yea it's suprising to you buh not me
Even with the facts you en-listed above, still i persist, spirituality and science can never be compared.
....umm i guess time to go to bed... Should i say gud a.m/p.m lol! C'you

Dnarvaez:

Yea it's suprising to you buh not me
Even with the facts you en-listed above, still i persist, spirituality and science can never be compared.
....umm i guess time to go to bed... Should i say gud a.m/p.m lol! C'you

Lol. This had nothing to do with your or his previous comment so let's assume you've corrected yourself.

Dnarvaez:

Yea it's suprising to you buh not me
Even with the facts you en-listed above, still i persist, spirituality and science can never be compared.
....umm i guess time to go to bed... Should i say gud a.m/p.m lol! C'you

First you need to change this ideology

scientists not able to determine completely how the earth looks like. No!
They couldn't
Their facts were plainly based on mere assumptions.

It depicts you to be ignorant of what exactly science is all about.

It was actually surprising to me seeing someone say such, I advice you study more..

Spirituality as you are implying is unproven and cannot be demonstrated, or do you think you can?

anyway its goodnight here..

Dnarvaez:

Now don't get me wrong
matters relating to spirituality differs entirely from Science & technology,, both can never be on same ground. If so how then were the so called scientists not able to determine completely how the earth looks like. No! They couldn't
Their facts were plainly based on mere assumptions.
Even as humans we do believe in some kind of unexplainable spirituality.
people with no family roots/background, especially Non-Africans, are the ones who would banter and argue about beliefs.

Sorry pal...."spirituality" is as vague as it gets...it has no standard definition....nor does it even has an argument in itself....

It's just about how many people you can rally in a common belief(that's why you were extending your reasons about humans believing in it)

Well I don't believe in it, does that make me "not human"?...

And the start of every view is based on an assumption....that doesn't automatically make the view wrong nor automatically discredited if evidence favors it....take for example the view that "every action has an opposite and/or equal reaction"....

That was once an assumption(a testable one or a.k.a an hypothesis) and time and time again it's been vindicated.

And it's best you know that non-belief I anything is not tied to foreigners.

davien:
Sorry pal...."spirituality" is as vague as it gets...it has no standard definition....nor does it even has an argument in itself....

It's just about how many people you can rally in a common belief(that's why you were extending your reasons about humans believing in it)

Well I don't believe in it, does that make me "not human"?...

And the start of every view is based on an assumption....that doesn't automatically make the view wrong nor automatically discredited if evidence favors it....take for example the view that "every action has an opposite and/or equal reaction"....

That was once an assumption(a testable one or a.k.a an hypothesis) and time and time again it's been vindicated.

And it's best you know that non-belief I anything is not tied to foreigners.

Pls are you a Nigerian?

The number one experience that fuc.ked up my belief in susperstition was my experience with sleep paralysis.

Told a few 'elders' and they were convinced I was under a spell or some demonic influence. Thanks to Wikipedia and the fact that I still enjoy reading.

These are also the set of people that believe weed is a spirit. Lol. Once you're consume weed, some people claim you're being controlled by some supernatural because you begin to see things from a difterent perspective. Dudes, its just simple chemistry. But how do you explain shii to some one who doesn't even know photosynthesis?

A very staunch moslem friend of mine (he has twins) and a polythecnic graduate argued vehemently with me that the sperm originates from the spine, all because their holy book made a reference to the back. Even untop verifiable evidence, he concluded it must be from the spine because, well, during orgasm he has those sensations in his spine. Now how the f am I supposed to TEACH a graduate that the spine is connected to the brain?

It's funny.

Growing up, I've had numerous stories about the supernatural, the occult and the rest. And the fact that the average elder belives in them begets the question of their validity. At least, there must be evidence that they are real for them to believe in it. But I have not experienced one. I've been frantically searching for those who know better, but once I meet them, and we have a 5 min conversation, they become uninterested to hypnotize me and stuff.

The yorubas attribute their numerous dieties to the supernatural. I grew up in the midst of all these supernatural brouhaha. Esu, the god that would make your enemy (or friend or anybody) die if you know their names, and you visit the shrine asking Esu to punish a certain person because he offered the wrong gifts (or sacrificial things). I've always heard this works all the time. I just wonder why, if so, hundreds of Abacha's yoruba (elders) enemies never thought of sending Esu an errand, as they used to say.

Sango - the god of thunder (funny enough, Igbos also have their own version, Amadioha. I'm igbo, so I know better. The Greeks have their own, the Romans, the Norse.)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thunder_gods

All these were created when humans had no idea how the world worked. They (we) used to think thunder was the roar of God (or god's angels)
But as we all know, the rest of the world has moved forward, citing each and every one as mythical fables.

There might be a possibility that the supernatural exists, but I do not have enough evidence to believe it. Maybe it also stems from the fact that I believe the devil was invented by man to blame someone or something for his transgressions.

We're human after all. And even if something unfamiliar happens in the science world, it is treated with utmost caution and scrutintly researched.

The average human will just attribute it to the supernatural. A god, any god.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

I do have a couple of ebooks to share, concerning religion, superstitions, esotericsim, supernatural, mystic hypnoticism and all that if anyone's interested. It's a bumpy ride, but there is always ja price to pay for everything. Even the truth.

johnydon22:

First you need to change this ideology It depicts you to be ignorant of what exactly science is all about.

It was actually surprising to me seeing someone say such, I advice you study more..

Spirituality as you are implying is unproven and cannot be demonstrated, or do you think you can?

anyway its goodnight here..

I still stand firmly on my point! Science and its innovations is all about practicality and theories, yet its facts are not perfect or faultless.
Yeah! We see and demonstrate science because it was invented by man and its works are also made possible by tools. But you see, spirituality is a thing of the mind, it is some sort of deep meditation.
Now my answer to ur last quote: Spirituality can undisputedly be proven or shown, though it's more of a thing of individuality. Human believing power varies. What i may strongly believe in might not be thesame to other persons' beliefs.
Now you might've come across this sayings: "you shall reap whatever you say," "Karma is a b!tch. ( the "karma" here refers to the sum of somebody's good and bad actions in one of their lives, believed to decide what will happen to them in the next life)," that is to say one that usually wallows in evil doings, will oneday without warning be caught up in his/her web.
...These beliefs i summed up can't be seen but can be felt and do occur in reality, and we do believe that there are some imaginary forces some what behind these notions.

Dnarvaez:

I still stand firmly on my point! Science and its innovations is all about practicality and theories, yet its facts are not perfect or faultless.
Yeah! We see and demonstrate science because it was invented by man and its works are also made possible by tools. But you see, spirituality is a thing of the mind, it is some sort of deep meditation.
Now my answer to ur last quote: Spirituality can undisputedly be proven or shown, though it's more of a thing of individuality. Human believing power varies. What i may strongly believe in might not be thesame to other persons' beliefs.
Now you might've come across this sayings: "you shall reap whatever you say," "Karma is a b!tch. ( the "karma" here refers to the sum of somebody's good and bad actions in one of their lives, believed to decide what will happen to them in the next life)," that is to say one that usually wallows in evil doings, will oneday without warning be caught up in his/her web.
...These beliefs i summed up can't be seen but can be felt and do occur in reality, and we do believe that there are some imaginary forces some what behind these notions.

Karma is the biggest rip-off of the human mind. Just like religion, it was created to cage, ensnare (and possibly make people do more good). But reality has taught otherwise.

We all know not everybody will be good, and not everybody will be bad.

I've seen horrible things happen to good people. And good things happen to despicable people.

World War 1 and 2, The Tuskegee Experiment, The Holocaust, The Jews Massacre, Jesus Christ's biblical history, Bernie Maddoff and the September 11, 2001 attacks are examples to prove that the Karma theory is just a farce.

Read, niggas. Read!

TheFilmmaker:


Karma is the biggest rip-off of the human mind. Just like religion, it was created to cage, ensnare (and possibly make people do more good). But reality has taught otherwise.

We all know not everybody will be good, and not everybody will be bad.

I've seen horrible things happen to good people. And good things happen to despicable people.

World War 1 and 2, The Tuskegee Experiment, The Holocaust, The Jews Massacre, Jesus Christ's biblical history, Bernie Maddoff and the September 11, 2001 attacks are examples to prove that the Karma theory is just a farce.

Read, niggas. Read!

I don't Quiet agree with you on that

Dnarvaez:

I still stand firmly on my point! Science and its innovations is all about ]practicality and theories, yet its facts are not perfect or faultless.

Good i take it that you have corrected yourself. science is just study and is not authoritative, any theory proposed by science is open for wild scrutinization and experimentation. So science don't claim perfection but only studies. . and scientific method is through experimentation, observation and scrutinization of available datas.

Dnarvaez:

Yeah! We see and demonstrate science because it was invented by man and its works are also made possible by tools. But you see, spirituality is a thing of the mind, it is some sort of deep meditation.

Very good, and that is where it stops.

Dnarvaez:

Now my answer to ur last quote: Spirituality can undisputedly be proven or shown, though it's more of a thing of individuality. Human believing power varies. What i may strongly believe in might not be thesame to other persons' beliefs.

Can you tell me what you mean by spirituality and how yours can be demonstrated.

Dnarvaez:

Now you might've come across this sayings: "you shall reap whatever you say," "Karma is a b!tch. ( the "karma" here refers to the sum of somebody's good and bad actions in one of their lives, believed to decide what will happen to them in the next life)," that is to say one that usually wallows in evil doings, will oneday without warning be caught up in his/her web.

I do good i feel good, i do bad i feel bad. . what you give is what you get.

Dnarvaez:

...These beliefs i summed up can't be seen but can be felt and do occur in reality, and we do believe that there are some imaginary forces some what behind these notions.

And this bolded just finished off ALL ur analogies..

Dnarvaez:

I don't Quiet agree with you on that

Why? You need more 'local' examples?

johnydon22:
Good Can you tell me what you mean by spirituality and how yours can be demonstrated.

What is spirituality? Spirituality is the praxis and process of personal transformation, either in accordance with traditional religious ideas, or, increasingly, oriented on subjective experience and pyschological growth independently of any specific religious context. In a more general sense, it may refer to almost any kind of meaningful activity or blissful experience.
Source : http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality
like i opined earlier, spirituality is a thing of the mind nd peoples' believing power or ability can't be compared. And the light of such belief is seen when that particular notion has come to pass.
For example, i could predict that Man. U will defeat Chelsea in a tournament, while ur own prediction can be in the opposite. Most times we do say "i believe in this, i believe that......... Can do it." so what's the secret in it? Nothing actually, it just depends on how the mind works.
Hope you get my point nw.

TheFilmmaker:


Why? You need more 'local' examples?

Yep

Dnarvaez:

What is spirituality? Spirituality is the praxis and process of personal transformation, either in accordance with traditional religious ideas, or, increasingly, oriented on subjective experience and pyschological growth independently of any specific religious context. In a more general sense, it may refer to almost any kind of meaningful activity or blissful experience.
Source : http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality
like i opined earlier, spirituality is a thing of the mind nd peoples' believing power or ability can't be compared. And the light of such belief is seen when that particular notion has come to pass.
For example, i could predict that Man. U will defeat Chelsea in a tournament, while ur own prediction can be in the opposite. Most times we do say "i believe in this, i believe that......... Can do it." so what's the secret in it? Nothing actually, it just depends on how the mind works.
Hope you get my point nw.

Spirituality a thing of the mind. Very good i like this definition ..