9jacrip:


You're not getting my point baba.

I have not stated being initiated has to do with having it as a career or for job, no.

Every Yoruba person in order to be guided along what ori itself expect of us is expected to tefa, bo ifa, wo igbo odu, learn and be able to inteprete these odus all of which would be to the use of the individual everytime he wakes up every morning to know what the ori requires for the day, things to be expected and things to be done.

Owning an Ifa will let you know if you're meant to be an Ode, what type of animals you should hunt, days you should go and things to do before going out to hunt.

Modernity is the reason many confuse Ifa to be a thing reserved for certain people.

Itefa is the first stage where one if given some seeds and ifa is invoked into them, you'll then bless these seeds daily with seamans or blood, depends on which you want and you can divine with the seeds - you recite a chant and attempt to pack these seeds at once for a number of times and whatever amount of seed remains between 1 or 2 will determine what odu you'll press on the board of iyerosun or sand which you'll then interprete from what the odu says and apply it to you. Itefa is just the first stage which lasts for just a year.

After which you'll then enter Igbo Odu (the initiation) if you wish, where the seeds will then be converted to opele or ikin for you and the spirit invoked to align with your ori and soul which you carry forever.

Either one you do, you do not have to become a babalawo (a member of an awo) but most people do in order to learn deeper Ifa odus, herbs, rituals etc.

I understand most of these things you write here.


I dont know how it at your side but here, those that 'ko Ifa kuro ninu epo' ie Itefa only pray to there own Ifa. They dont know how to divine with the ikin or understand Odu. They pray with Oti abuda and bless the day. When it comes to divination, they consult there awo.

FOLYKAZE:


Do you have the book Oju Odu merindinlogun?

I can only cite pages of the book as my reference. I cannot type the whole stuff here.

Which temple pls? There are lot of temple in Ife.

No, I do not.

Yes, there's Ela also known as Orunmila.

I was refering to the Ela relation to Jesus comment as most people often believe Ela Oluorogbo was Moremi's only son whom she sacrificed for Ife people.

Ela Oluorogbo's temple is at Ife, just tell a bikeman to lead you to or take you to Oluorogbo temple towards Oja Ife - Oke Ogbo road.

FOLYKAZE:


I understand most of these things you write here.


I dont know how it at your side but here, those that 'ko Ifa kuro ninu epo' ie Itefa only pray to there own Ifa. They dont know how to divine with the ikin or understand Odu. They pray with Oti abuda and bless the day. When it comes to divination, they consult there awo.

You can divine with it.

I explained if here:

...bless these seeds daily with seamans or blood, depends on which you want and you can divine with the seeds - you recite a chant and attempt to pack these seeds at once for a number of times and whatever amount of seed remains between 1 or 2 will determine what odu you'll press on the board of iyerosun or sand which you'll then interprete from what the odu says and apply it to you.

You are expected to divine with it daily and be able to either interprete the odu or have a babalawo interprete it for you.

Most babalawo would not tell you this or teach you the basic interpretations in order to leep you on the leash as most would not want to go to Igbo Odu to complete the process - the process which is very very key.

9jacrip:


No, I do not.

Yes, there's Ela also known as Orunmila.

I was refering to the Ela relation to Jesus comment as most people often believe Ela Oluorogbo was Moremi's only son whom she sacrificed for Ife people.

Ela Oluorogbo's temple is at Ife, just tell a bikeman to lead you to or take you to Oluorogbo temple towards Oja Ife - Oke Ogbo road.

Ela as Orunmila appears in this oriki:

Ti a ba ji, a we wo toni, a we se kasin owuro
Ti a ba ji, a tun wa fi aso toki bo'ra
Mo ni Orunmila, o ji ire loni
Ela, o ji're loni
Morohuntolu, Mosiakaraba, Omo erin nfon gun l'alo
Omi eekanna owo ko k'ekun ara abe
Omo abeto winniwinni b'eji ro p-imo akunnu
Omo Olobe to fi ori jo ade to mo odi umo jimo
Ifa mo pe,
Orunmila mi pe
Ela mo pe omo oyigi
Eteti ke gbure
aaya olupe, upe reire o X 3.



I am asking for the temple where Yoruba writing is.

I didnt say Ela son of Moremi is Jesus. What I said is that Jewesun could be Jesus. I am not really sure if he is. I really want to know who Jewesun, son of Eledumare is.

9jacrip:


You can divine with it.

I explained if here:

...bless these seeds daily with seamans or blood, depends on which you want and you can divine with the seeds - you recite a chant and attempt to pack these seeds at once for a number of times and whatever amount of seed remains between 1 or 2 will determine what odu you'll press on the board of iyerosun or sand which you'll then interprete from what the odu says and apply it to you.

You are expected to divine with it daily and be able to either interprete the odu or have a babalawo interprete it for you.

Most babalawo would not tell you this or teach you the basic interpretations in order to leep you on the leash as most would not want to go to Igbo Odu to complete the process - the process which is very very key.

I'm sure you're aware the itefa/ko ifa kuro ninu epo brings aje boom the first 2 years?

You are very correct with the bold. It is called Ela- (something). I dont know joor. I am not a bad student. . . .no one there to carry me along.

As par divining, my friend does not know how to divine. He only consult his awo when he have issue. And prays to his Ikin on daily basis.

When I say divine pls note that I do not mean casting ikin like old felas do with Obi when praying ans say Obi 'yan' that is prayer is accepted. I mean divining to know what the day have in pulse for that person.

I guess Itefa is samething as Pinodu?

FOLYKAZE:


I get most of info from books.

Wande Abimbola is a respected babalawo which you I believe you know very well.

I dont really want to argue this with you but I think it is seriously needed.

According to Wande Abimbola, Esu has all the Ase to which he gives Orisha. In page vi of Oju Odu, he wrote in the book that Orunmila does not have bone in his body. And Orunmila has to use Ase from Esu if he really wants to do anything. Abimbola narrate the story of Eleye when they were coming to Aye. The Eleye asked Orunmila that back to Aye to which Orunmila replied them that he has no bone. But after relentless plea, Orunmila too Ashe from Esu and he brought the Eleye to Aye. In page xxiii, it is noted there that all the ajoguns are Esu servant and Esu delivers sacrifice to them. Samething happens to Orishas. It is Esu duty to take sacrifice to them and he takes 5% for himself. So Esu is the mediator between Ajogun, Orisha and we humans. And it boldy written there that Esu ni alase fun gbogbo Orisa. I guess you are mixing Orisha-nla up with Oni-ashe.


On creation, in page xiii titled oro nipa ori, ese ati aya; it is stated there that Orisanla (Obatala) built the body (ara), Olodumare gave the lifeless body Emi whil Ogun moulded the bone. And in Ajala house we took our Ori from. According to the write-up, in Odu Ogbegunda, the story of how we choose our Ori is told there. Ajala is said to be drunkard and debtor who handle Ori carelessly when mudding it.

I want you to know that Orunmila is been refer to as 'odudu ti i duri emere, T'o tun ori eni sunwon se'. Does this make Orunmila maker of Ori?


In Asa ati Orisa, there is a song there that touched Obatala as been creator of body.

Eni s'oju s'emu
Orisa ni ma a sin
Adani b'o ti ri
Orisa ni ma a sin




as for asking my awo. I dont have a particular awo. I have a friend who is initiated. That is own Ifa which I do follow up when he want to consult his baba. The oldman will only give me chance to ask things from Ifa. Any other questions wont be answered. He will only turn me around with big proverb and songs that hold no meaning to me.

I know Awo Wande Abimbola very well sir .

Sir, if you can, ask the awo or have your friend ask him which of the Orisas have the divine authority or ase.

No doubt, Esu has ase which was given to him by Olodumare but Obatala is the one who holds the ultimate ase.

Please read this, though I hate to cite online sources for discussions such as this but I think this is from a reputable awo.

In Yorùbá, Orí literally translates to mean “head”, however the spiritual significance of the word is far deeper. Orí is human consciousness. It is our direct connection to Olódùmarè, the Supreme Force.
Conceptually, Orí is closely related to destiny or fate. Each and every person who is born on Earth, Aye, went through the process of choosing their Orí and their Destiny before from Heaven to Earth, Orun to Aye. Each human being has the personal task of selecting their very own Orí, their own particular human consciousness.
Obatala is the Oriṣa responsible for molding the human heads, and thus human consciousness. He molds them by hand from clay. Not all Orí are created equally. Some of the Orí’s turn out to be more “perfect” than others ones do, as Obatala makes each one by hand.

Orunmila only helps the head re-adjust.

On the other hand, one who chooses an imperfect Orí will experience many hardships in life. They will find that the good things in life are hard to achieve and that tough-times are common. It will take great change to better things for them. Potentially they can change through the implementation of ritual and sacrifice, vehicles for change and transformation, to repair their Orí’s and their realign destinies, thereby turning their lives around for the better.

Orunmila is the one who repairs such imperfect Orí. The following is anexcerpt from an ancient Oriki, prayer poem, for Orunmila:
Odudu ti ndu Orí emere
Atun Orí ti ko suhan se
A mo iku

http://oyekuofun.org/what-is-ori/

FOLYKAZE:


You are very correct with the bold. It is called Ela- (something). I dont know joor. I am not a bad student. . . .no one there to carry me along.

As par divining, my friend does not know how to divine. He only consult his awo when he have issue. And prays to his Ikin on daily basis.

When I say divine pls note that I do not mean casting ikin like old felas do with Obi when praying ans say Obi 'yan' that is prayer is accepted. I mean divining to know what the day have in pulse for that person.

I guess Itefa is samething as Pinodu?

Lol you can always befriend babalawos and show you're willing to initiate in the long run, they'll give you tidbits. The little I know about Ifa were/are taught to me by my fellow awos who also initiated into Ifa, I am yet to do mine.

I know what you meant by divine and yes you can divine with ikin. You recite a chant, pack the whole ikin at once, if it you have 2 balls left, you'll press one odu with your middle finger on the sand or opan ifa with iyerosun dust, if you have 1 ball left left you'll press press 2 with middle finger and second to the little finger. You repeat this process for times till an Odu surfaces.

Whatever Odu you get is what Ifa is trying to tell you about whateever it is you divine about - the day, job, money, family, business etc.

You'll take this Odu to an awo who will interprete recite the odu verse and interpret it to you and tell you what Ifa needs to do.

You can divine with Obi, Owo eyo, ikin and Opele but the latter is the most accurrate and solid for an awo.

This your friend should not restrict himself to one awo. He has taken the first step of itefa, he should be free to mingle and bond with babalawos wherever he meets them. I hope not in Lagos sha?

9jacrip:


I know Awo Wande Abimbola very well sir .

Sir, if you can, ask the awo or have your friend ask him which of the Orisas have the divine authority or ase.

No doubt, Esu has ase which was given to him by Olodumare but Obatala is the one who holds the ultimate ase.

Please read this, though I hate to cite online sources for discussions such as this but I think this is from a reputable awo.



Orunmila only helps the head re-adjust.




http://oyekuofun.org/what-is-ori/

I know Orunmila is Odudu ti n du ori emere. And eleri ipin. But the creation of Ori I know is that of Ajala. The story add that he fries Ori and store them in his house.

The Odu from which Abimbola cited Ajala moulding Ori is OGBEGUNDA. Here is the itan:

Ise meta ni omori odo nse
Ka fi ori re gun iyan
ka fi idi re gun elu
ka fi agbede-meji re ti ilekun dain-dan-in dan in
Awon ni won difa fun
Oriseku omo Ogun
Won ki fun Ori liemere Omo Ija
Won difa fun Afuwape
Omo bibi Inu agbonmiregun
Nijo ti won nlo ile Ajala-mopin
Lo ree yan Ori
Won ni ki won rubo
Afuwape nikan lo mbe leyin to mebe
Ori Afuwape wa sun won ja
Won ni awon ko mo ibi olori gbe yan Ori o
Awon ko ba lo yan ti awon
Afuwape da won lohun wipe:
Ibikan naa la ti gbe yan Ori o
Kadara ko papo ni.


In english

A pestle performs three functions:
It pounds yam
It pounds indigo
It is used as a bar lock behind the door.
Cast divination for Oriseku, Ori-ilemere, and
Afuwape
When they were going to choose their destinies
in Ajala Mopin's domain.
They were asked to perform rituals.
Only Afuwape performed the rituals.
He therefore became very successful.
The others lamented that had they known
where Afuwape chose his own Ori, they
would have gone there for their own too.
Afuwape responded that even though their
Ori were chosen in the same place, their
destinies differed.

Ajala Mopin means the moulder of Ipin.



I dont know how you mean when you said Obatala is the alase. But what I mean in my own case is that Esu is the keeper of all ase. And he gives it to Orisha when need be.

I will always try to make further enquiry on Obatala and ultimate Ashe.

9jacrip:


Lol you can always befriend babalawos and show you're willing to initiate in the long run, they'll give you tidbits. The little I know about Ifa were/are taught to me by my fellow awos who also initiated into Ifa, I am yet to do mine.

I know what you meant by divine and yes you can divine with ikin. You recite a chant, pack the whole ikin at once, if it you have 2 balls left, you'll press one odu with your middle finger on the sand or opan ifa with iyerosun dust, if you have 1 ball left left you'll press press 2 with middle finger and second to the little finger. You repeat this process for times till an Odu surfaces.

Whatever Odu you get is what Ifa is trying to tell you about whateever it is you divine about - the day, job, money, family, business etc.

You'll take this Odu to an awo who will interprete recite the odu verse and interpret it to you and tell you what Ifa needs to do.

You can divine with Obi, Owo eyo, ikin and Opele but the latter is the most accurrate and solid for an awo.

This your friend should not restrict himself to one awo. He has taken the first step of itefa, he should be free to mingle and bond with babalawos wherever he meets them. I hope not in Lagos sha?

He work in lagos.

I think Opele is the simplest form of divination among others. And I know two Odu when Ifa is cast. That is Eji Ogbe and Oyeku meji. The rest I don use am chop.



We have derailed enough. Can we pls talk about Jewesun? Do you think this character is Jesus as some claimed?

FOLYKAZE:


I know Orunmila is Odudu ti n du ori emere. And eleri ipin. But the creation of Ori I know is that of Ajala. The story add that he fries Ori and store them in his house.

The Odu from which Abimbola cited Ajala moulding Ori is OGBEGUNDA. Here is the itan:

Ise meta ni omori odo nse
Ka fi ori re gun iyan
ka fi idi re gun elu
ka fi agbede-meji re ti ilekun dain-dan-in dan in
Awon ni won difa fun
Oriseku omo Ogun
Won ki fun Ori liemere Omo Ija
Won difa fun Afuwape
Omo bibi Inu agbonmiregun
Nijo ti won nlo ile Ajala-mopin
Lo ree yan Ori
Won ni ki won rubo
Afuwape nikan lo mbe leyin to mebe
Ori Afuwape wa sun won ja
Won ni awon ko mo ibi olori gbe yan Ori o
Awon ko ba lo yan ti awon
Afuwape da won lohun wipe:
Ibikan naa la ti gbe yan Ori o
Kadara ko papo ni.


In english

A pestle performs three functions:
It pounds yam
It pounds indigo
It is used as a bar lock behind the door.
Cast divination for Oriseku, Ori-ilemere, and
Afuwape
When they were going to choose their destinies
in Ajala Mopin's domain.
They were asked to perform rituals.
Only Afuwape performed the rituals.
He therefore became very successful.
The others lamented that had they known
where Afuwape chose his own Ori, they
would have gone there for their own too.
Afuwape responded that even though their
Ori were chosen in the same place, their
destinies differed.

Ajala Mopin means the moulder of Ipin.

I do not know who Ajala is, never heard of him.

There is too much to learn anyways.

But I know for sure, Obatala moulds the head.

9jacrip:


I do not know who Ajala is, never heard of him.

There is too much to learn anyways.

But I know for sure, Obatala moulds the head.

Amomotan kan o si.

Download this for a good read. I believe it will help.

https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/91439/original/AjalatheChoiceofOri.pdf

FOLYKAZE:


He work in lagos.

I think Opele is the simplest form of divination among others. And I know two Odu when Ifa is cast. That is Eji Ogbe and Oyeku meji. The rest I don use am chop.



We have derailed enough. Can we pls talk about Jewesun? Do you think this character is Jesus as some claimed?

Oh, if he can, he should endeavour to mix up with awos in the hinterlands.

Baba, abeg learn more O.

The only character close to the role Jesus played was Moremi's son. He was sacrificed to save the people and it happened during Ogun or Oranmiyan's kingship periods.

I do not know the role Jewesun but ascribing it to Jesus comes to me as fraud.

9jacrip:


Oh, if he can, he should endeavour to mix up with awos in the hinterlands.

Baba, abeg learn more O.

The only character close to the role Jesus played was Moremi's son. He was sacrificed to save the people and it happened during Ogun or Oranmiyan's kingship periods.

I do not know the role Jewesun but ascribing it to Jesus comes to me as fraud.

I am knowing Moremi and her son story for the first time.

Can you pls provide link to where I can read more about this story or maybe share it with us here.

The Jewesun account appears like a fraud to me too.

FOLYKAZE:


Amomotan kan o si.

Download this for a good read. I believe it will help.

https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/91439/original/AjalatheChoiceofOri.pdf

Thank you.

I've read it.

I believe the ifa verse was just an allegory to tell a story of destiny.
Going by the glossary, I think Ajala was just a name not a deity present at Olodumare and Obatala's human creation period.

The short story should not be taken literaly as Ogun, Esu and Orunmila were not even said or known to have sons with such names.

Ajala in the story was just credited as a fictional character not an actually live figure.

FOLYKAZE:


I am knowing Moremi and her son story for the first time.

Can you pls provide link to where I can read more about this story or maybe share it with us here.

The Jewesun account appears like a fraud to me too.

From my BA research (cultural significance of Edi Festival in Ile-Ife:

Origin of the Festival

During Moremi’s era, Ile-Ife was subjected to foreign raids and attacks by a group known as the Ugbos9 who are also referred to as Igbos10, some people regard them to be the present day Ibos (Igbos) but research shows the Igbos and Ile-Ife didn’t have an inter-group relation of this sort during this period. This Ugbo attacked Ile-Ife and took Ife people as captives away into their own Ugbo land. They were able to do this through their god-like appearance which scared the people of Ife.

This continuous raids and attacks placed Ile-Ife under civil unrest. Due to the situation of things in Ile-Ife, Moremi felt the urge to find a way to put a stop to this ongoing problem and save the people of Ife from it. As a result she consulted the river goddess Esinmirin11, her plan was granted success in return for a sacrifice of whatever the river goddess requires of her on her return which she agreed to.

On the next raid, Moremi made herself available to be taken into captivity and she was carted away with several unlucky captives to the Ugboland. And as a result of her striking beauty, the king of the Igbos took her in as wife, so she was not enslaved nor killed. During Moremi’s stay she was able to extract details about the tactics and arrangements for these raids. She found that these Igbos were not gods but rather human beings who were clothed in Ekan grass and bamboo fire12 and could be defeated with flaming torches placed on the dried grass on their body.

Upon gathering the needed information, Moremi set forth back to Ile-Ife. On arrival she broke the news to the people of Ife and urged them to attack these raiders with flaming torches and would be defeated. Eventually, these raiders attacked Ile-Ife once again but this time they were attacked and some were taken as captives with an existing family house in Ile-Ife today known as ’Oluyare’.13 After this victory over this incessant raids and attacks, Moremi was required to offer the sacrifice she pledged to the river goddess Esinmirin. She was required of her only son, Ela or Oluorogbo and as a result she tried to offer several other items but they were rejected, so she finally had to give up her son, Ela or Oluorogbo to be offered to the river goddess.


Note: Ugbo are the present day Ugbo in Ondo state.

Also, the Oluorogbo people have disputed Oluorogbo being a son to Moremi. He is a deity who lived way before.

9jacrip:


From my BA research (cultural significance of Edi Festival in Ile-Ife:

Origin of the Festival

During Moremi’s era, Ile-Ife was subjected to foreign raids and attacks by a group known as the Ugbos9 who are also referred to as Igbos10, some people regard them to be the present day Ibos (Igbos) but research shows the Igbos and Ile-Ife didn’t have an inter-group relation of this sort during this period. This Ugbo attacked Ile-Ife and took Ife people as captives away into their own Ugbo land. They were able to do this through their god-like appearance which scared the people of Ife.

This continuous raids and attacks placed Ile-Ife under civil unrest. Due to the situation of things in Ile-Ife, Moremi felt the urge to find a way to put a stop to this ongoing problem and save the people of Ife from it. As a result she consulted the river goddess Esinmirin11, her plan was granted success in return for a sacrifice of whatever the river goddess requires of her on her return which she agreed to.

On the next raid, Moremi made herself available to be taken into captivity and she was carted away with several unlucky captives to the Ugboland. And as a result of her striking beauty, the king of the Igbos took her in as wife, so she was not enslaved nor killed. During Moremi’s stay she was able to extract details about the tactics and arrangements for these raids. She found that these Igbos were not gods but rather human beings who were clothed in Ekan grass and bamboo fire12 and could be defeated with flaming torches placed on the dried grass on their body.

Upon gathering the needed information, Moremi set forth back to Ile-Ife. On arrival she broke the news to the people of Ife and urged them to attack these raiders with flaming torches and would be defeated. Eventually, these raiders attacked Ile-Ife once again but this time they were attacked and some were taken as captives with an existing family house in Ile-Ife today known as ’Oluyare’.13 After this victory over this incessant raids and attacks, Moremi was required to offer the sacrifice she pledged to the river goddess Esinmirin. She was required of her only son, Ela or Oluorogbo and as a result she tried to offer several other items but they were rejected, so she finally had to give up her son, Ela or Oluorogbo to be offered to the river goddess.


Note: Ugbo are the present day Ugbo in Ondo state.

Also, the Oluorogbo people have disputed Oluorogbo being a son to Moremi. He is a deity who lived way before.

This is enlightening. The fact that she already made the sacrifice of being captured as a slave and lived with the enemy and subjected herself to danger of being found out, was that not a sacrifice enough? What was the rationale for her having to sacrifice her son? My second question. . .more a comment, really. Your note at the end about Ugbo people being in Ondo - that is very interesting. Also I recently met someone whose last name is Ugboo but they hailed from Benin. I thought it was interesting because you would think Ugbo sounds like a S.E. name, but instead are Bini or Ondo. Thank you.

Wonderful text Sir. I do for one believe the knowledge of the history and sciences of the ancient which is far superior to what this modern world has now should be revealled to every Black person (maybe I am wrong, for which I strongly apologize), regardless of tribe or religion, because the fact is we are so mixed up to the extent that we can't say for a fact which tribe we really belong to.
If you can Sir, do open a blog or on this forum to teach the Blackman to Love Himself divinely and to respect, guard, Love His Blackwoman in spirit and soul.
I do believe its time to ignite that flame in us. If the divine Love has circulated amongst all of us the Black (indiginous People, Imale , Asiatic or Hebrew) of the earth, We may then be able to extend love outside of Our Family.

isalegan2:


This is enlightening. The fact that she already made the sacrifice of being captured as a slave and lived with the enemy and subjected herself to danger of being found out, was that not a sacrifice enough? What was the rationale for her having to sacrifice her son? My second question. . .more a comment, really. Your note at the end about Ugbo people being in Ondo - that is very interesting. Also I recently met someone whose last name is Ugboo but they hailed from Benin. I thought it was interesting because you would think Ugbo sounds like a S.E. name, but instead are Bini or Ondo. Thank you.

Yes it was a sacrifice indeed to have rendered herself very vulnerable.

Before setting out on the 'adventure' she consulted with the spirit of the esinmirin river (the river still exists). The spirit gave her heads up on what to expect and guaranteed her success in exchange for her son which she had to give up after all of it.

Yes, you're not alone to think the name has roots in SE, the fact that it has now been corrupted to Igbo even makes it worse and confusing to any layman. The interesting part is that the pronunciation is very different - if you're familiar with Yoruba sounds then try following the accents - Ùgbó (as in dodo).

The captured Ugbo people during Moremi's period have a family compound in Ife till today and hold a chieftaincy title. They are said to stay in touch with the Ugbo group in Ondo also.

FOLYKAZE, there is no forcing of any myth into the ifa corpus... At a given point in time there is a contact with other "religions" and "beliefs". You should know that the ifa corpus is not static, it is on the move and by experiences, other things are added. Just like you mentioned the "imale", it was a transcultural contact with others, so if you see something like "jewesun", it is just the experience of the cults then with another belief which will later metamorphose into the ifa chants...

so, when you hear "ka wifun ni kaa gbo awo ile alara, kaa soro fun ni kaa gba awo ijero"...those are historical allusions to ancient cults situated in Ekiti whose attributes are shown in the Ifa chants...likewise,allusions to foreign contact and stories are not excluded too, just to serve its mystic purpose. Everything is hybridized, no culture is monolithic. I can't remember where I heard it but there is something like, "A dia fun Ela, ti n se omo bibi inu olodumare" (I heard that perhaps at age 17 or so)

9jacrip:



Ha LOL!

Obatala, alamorere tin mori omotuntun, jo wa bi wa tun ori wa se.

Bros, I cannot give you proofs since you're an Obatala initiate.

Esu does not own ase.

Obatala, Alabalase.

He is the one every other deities go to for ase.

Ogun did not make bones bros, his only role was that he paved way for Orisas when coming down to earth and he was war like.

You're mixing these things up.

I hate using online sources for discussions such as these as most writers are surface but google 'Alabalase' or ask your awo.

Ogun actually made bones

*daboool post*

macof:


Ogun actually made bones

This is new.

After years of Isese, I'm just hearing this.
I'll source for Ogun people in Ife for details on this.

9jacrip:


Yes it was a sacrifice indeed to have rendered herself very vulnerable.

Before setting out on the 'adventure' she consulted with the spirit of the esinmirin river (the river still exists). The spirit gave her heads up on what to expect and guaranteed her success in exchange for her son which she had to give up after all of it.

Yes, you're not alone to think the name has roots in SE, the fact that it has now been corrupted to Igbo even makes it worse and confusing to any layman. The interesting part is that the pronunciation is very different - if you're familiar with Yoruba sounds then try following the accents - Ùgbó (as in dodo).

The captured Ugbo people during Moremi's period have a family compound in Ife till today and hold a chieftaincy title. They are said to stay in touch with the Ugbo group in Ondo also.

I think I am missing out on Ugbo people in Ondo state.

Which tribe do they belong among these three; Ikale, Ilaje and Apoi?

I know a settlement after Igbokoda called Ugbo nla. The people settle there are Ilaje though. Does this have anything in relation with Ugbo?

twosquare:
FOLYKAZE, there is no forcing of any myth into the ifa corpus... At a given point in time there is a contact with other "religions" and "beliefs". You should know that the ifa corpus is not static, it is on the move and by experiences, other things are added. Just like you mentioned the "imale", it was a transcultural contact with others, so if you see something like "jewesun", it is just the experience of the cults then with another belief which will later metamorphose into the ifa chants...

so, when you hear "ka wifun ni kaa gbo awo ile alara, kaa soro fun ni kaa gba awo ijero"...those are historical allusions to ancient cults situated in Ekiti whose attributes are shown in the Ifa chants...likewise,allusions to foreign contact and stories are not excluded too, just to serve its mystic purpose. Everything is hybridized, no culture is monolithic. I can't remember where I heard it but there is something like, "A dia fun Ela, ti n se omo bibi inu olodumare" (I heard that perhaps at age 17 or so)

This is so on point. I understand that Ifa touches some historical event. I was suprised when I read in Obara meji talking about slavery and civilization.

It says:

Baba lo tohun dudu ra dudu
Baba lo tohun pupa ra pupa
Baba lol t'aasaa lo r'eebo
Baba lo tohun funfun lo ra funfun
Baba lo ta Fulani rododo
Baba lo taasaa lo ra Larubaawa

As you can see, the corpus refers to Slavery among our people. It talk about Fulani and how they are been sold to slavery in exchange for flower. It also mention how we sold our culture for europe and arab civilization.

This is undisputed fact. So much I cant dispute 'Jewesub- existence in the time past, I still dont see how the character could be Jesus. Afterall we have seen another 'omo bibi inu Eleduamre. I hold that Jewesun could real but he is not Jesus.

FOLYKAZE:


This is so on point. I understand that Ifa touches some historical event. I was suprised when I read in Obara meji talking about slavery and civilization.

It says:

Baba lo tohun dudu ra dudu
Baba lo tohun pupa ra pupa
Baba lol t'aasaa lo r'eebo
Baba lo tohun funfun lo ra funfun
Baba lo ta Fulani rododo
Baba lo taasaa lo ra Larubaawa

As you can see, the corpus refers to Slavery among our people. It talk about Fulani and how they are been sold to slavery in exchange for flower. It also mention how we sold our culture for europe and arab civilization.

This is undisputed fact. So much I cant dispute 'Jewesub- existence in the time past, I still dont see how the character could be Jesus. Afterall we have seen another 'omo bibi inu Eleduamre. I hold that Jewesun could real but he is not Jesus.

Of course, it may not be an allegory of Jesus...Jewesun might have existed in times past. Even that name sounds like "jogunomi" (je ogun(war) o sinmi)...let's look it in another form- jewesun= Jewesinmi (let the leaves rest)....perhaps he is a born-powerful priest who knew the secrets of potion and chemistry of leaves. Just a theory in my head, not trying to establish a fact here...

FOLYKAZE:


I think I am missing out on Ugbo people in Ondo state.

Which tribe do they belong among these three; Ikale, Ilaje and Apoi?

I know a settlement after Igbokoda called Ugbo nla. The people settle there are Ilaje though. Does this have anything in relation with Ugbo?

Yes, it is the Ugbo you mentioned.
They were part of the original occupants in Ife before Oduduwa but they left to where they are settled now.

Although both sides corroborate the history, my grouse with it is that if it truly happened then it means Ugbo raided Ife for centuries since Moremi is said to have been an Offa indigene.

@FolyKaze

@ Macof

@@@@

Ever thought of this excerpt:

Kutu Kutu Oba Ugbo

Osan gangan Obamakin

Obatala Oseremagbo


And relate(d) it to Yoruba hours of the day classification:

Aaro Kutu Kutu -- morning

Osan gan gan -- afternoon

9jacrip:
@FolyKaze

@ Macof

@@@@

Ever thought of this excerpt:

Kutu Kutu Oba Ugbo

Osan gangan Obamakin

Obatala Oseremagbo


And relate(d) it to Yoruba hours of the day classification:

Aaro Kutu Kutu -- morning

Osan gan gan -- afternoon

The title of Oba in Ugbo kingdom is Ol'ugbo. They are predominantly Ilaje speaking folks.

Zion church founded by Ogunfeyimi Lene has it headquater there. I could remember I went there when my dad became apostle and went for annoiting.

FOLYKAZE:


The title of Oba in Ugbo kingdom is Ol'ugbo. They are predominantly Ilaje speaking folks.

Zion church founded by Ogunfeyimi Lene has it headquater there. I could remember I went there when my dad became apostle and went for annoiting.

The title of the king of Ugbo quaters in Ife is Oluyare.

So you be omo pastor sef

9jacrip:


The title of the king of Ugbo quaters in Ife is Oluyare.

So you be omo pastor sef

Esin Igbagbo oni ki a ma se oro ile wa.

Dad don sit down put for house some yrs back. And you know C/S is reminisce of Aborisha. Those guys are just fake christians. I have a uncle in lag, he own a church but. . .you barely can separate him from babalawo

FOLYKAZE:


Esin Igbagbo oni ki a ma se oro ile wa.

Dad don sit down put for house some yrs back. And you know C/S is reminisce of Aborisha. Those guys are just fake christians. I have a uncle in lag, he own a church but. . .you barely can separate him from babalawo

The emboldened is what many are yet to realize or battling to come to terms with.

I know so many muslims/christians whose middle east gods/religion ae yet to save from generational problems that manifest the same way and 'modernization' has robbed them of going to partake in oro ile wan would which holds the solution to these things because they don't want to be identified with it.

You're right. Not just C/S alone. Every church and their members are this way. There are many people who still go the way of traditional system lowkey for answers their beliefs cannot give, there are religious leaders whose source of miracles and wonders is the traditional system.

9jacrip:


Yes, it is the Ugbo you mentioned.
They were part of the original occupants in Ife before Oduduwa but they left to where they are settled now.

Although both sides corroborate the history, my grouse with it is that if it truly happened then it means Ugbo raided Ife for centuries since Moremi is said to have been an Offa indigene.

Aren't all Yoruba originally from Ife? or at least the culture began in Ife
I always imagined Ugbo as people at the outskirts of the Ife country, and they were subservient to Ife
Didn't Oduduwa's first encounter with them result from their terrorising Ife, such that Oduduwa engineered the victory of Ife?
I think this also brought him into prominence

Why would they terrorise Ife, if they were Ife
They seem to have already become a separate people organized into a separate nation during the attacks against Ife, probably left Ife many years before oduduwa And not during oduduwa