Flytefalls:

Honestly, why can't you JW's go a day without bad mouthing other religions. It's one of the most unappealling things about the JW's, always sh:ttin on other religions to bolster their own argument.

can you give an instance where they badmouth another group without having bible verses to buttress it? Give us with links and not mere says

Flytefalls:

Like snakes, they only have bad words for external people that other churches would actually pray for.

example of the bad words. Give us links

Flytefalls:

No, I don't see how uniquely right the NWT is either. It's just another version.

do a research, you'll see that it is more correct than most versions, especially the king james version.

Flytefalls:


JW's themselves still refer to Him as God, it's not frowned upon, especially in the ministry to gain common ground with people. I will ask them to clarify which God they meant next time. Even Catholics use Jehovahs name in prayer, so I will even ask them if they are JW's in disguise.

Flytefalls:


Excuse my sarcasm if you will, I'm extremely bored with unilateral thinkers. But I understand 'true' faith to be unshakable, so good for you.

you don't give concrete evidences to back up your castigation of them. Try to do that

JW is a cult, Op, your mum should be delighted that she left!
Concerning other family members who are not so "family" because of her leaving, I will say you should be praying for them, I believe you will derive joy from there!

eighTHREAD:

do a research, you'll see that it is more correct than most versions, especially the king james version.

Wow. So, a book that is basically an adaptation of another can be more correct than the original? Incredible assertion.

Even your organisation is not as brazen: http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/changed-bible-beliefs/

I'm out, no further reply will follow. Enjoy your life, no-one is wishing otherwise.

Mintayo:
JW is a cult, Op, your mum should be delighted that she left!
Concerning other family members who are not so "family" because of her leaving, I will say you should be praying for them, I believe you will derive joy from there!

Thank you, she is always praying for them

Flytefalls:

Wow. So, a book that is basically an adaptation of another can be more correct than the original? Incredible assertion.

Even your organisation is not as brazen: http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/changed-bible-beliefs/

I'm out, no further reply will follow. Enjoy your life, no-one is wishing otherwise.

@bold
I don't remember where I told that the NWT is an adaptation of the king james version. Both are an adaptation of the septuagint I.e the original script. The NWT is more close to the septuagint than the water-down king james version.

I wonder why you'll open a thread to condemn a set of people and expect no counter views. Btw, am not a JW, I just believe they are more correct than the littered churches we have around.

Mintayo:
JW is a cult, Op, your mum should be delighted that she left!
Concerning other family members who are not so "family" because of her leaving, I will say you should be praying for them, I believe you will derive joy from there!

can you prove they are a cult?

Pls do.

eighTHREAD:
can you prove they are a cult?

Pls do.

You don't have to accept, all they do is similar to what many known cults does!

Mintayo:

You don't have to accept, all they do is similar to what many known cults does!

what are the similar things?

Pls convince me.

Flytefalls:
I need an anonymous place to restore my sanity from the drama this religion brings to my life periodically.

I'm not an ex JW, I have never been a JW, but even now I am having to deal with the everlasting effects of my mother's disfellowship approximately 20 years ago.

Are there any former JW's, or JW non-baptised escapees, or even those still trapped inside 'the truth' who feel disillusioned here on NL? For myself and my mother, I have questions.

At what AGE re you when your assumed mother was disfellowshiped? 20years ago might be in 1985. Is, or was your father one of Jehovah's witnesses? Did you or your mother understood expressed stated command in the Bible by God, that unrepentant sinners shall and must be excommunicated from the congregation? Disfellowshiping is an internal cleansing action by God's holy spirit to keep the congregation clean. (1 Corinthians Chapter 5 verses 9-13). Some individuals who drifted away are as mostly, as a result of practising hidden sins, by which Jehovah due gradually removes his holy spirit away from such ones.
Apart from religion, the drone strikes by some governments to remove renegade citizens of theirs, what is your take?.

indigene:

At what AGE re you when your assumed mother was disfellowshiped? 20years ago might be in 1985. Is, or was your father one of Jehovah's witnesses? Did you or your mother understood expressed stated command in the Bible by God, that unrepentant sinners shall and must be excommunicated from the congregation? Disfellowshiping is an internal cleansing action by God's holy spirit to keep the congregation clean.
Apart from religion, the drone strikes by some governments to remove renegade citizens of theirs, what is your take.

@bolded, that I can understand, but what is still unclear to me, is why they disfellowship for reasons outside where the bible calls for dissociation e.g. Attending another religious meeting, political affilations, questioning watchtower publications, e.t.c.

Are JW's really following the bible, or are they being manipulated to be submissive to the watchtower?

indigene:

Disfellowshiping is an internal cleansing action by God's holy spirit to keep the congregation clean.
Apart from religion, the drone strikes by some governments to remove renegade citizens of theirs, what is your take.

I love this analogy,just like a dictatorial military regime, it best describes the state of JW's and ex-JW's.

JW's here are the compliant citizens, slaves to their country. obeying every dot of the law and swallowing all hook line and sinker.

The dissidents (ex-JW's) who question oppressive policies are punished with drones.

indigene:

At what AGE re you when your assumed mother was disfellowshiped? 20years ago might be in 1985. Is, or was your father one of Jehovah's witnesses? Did you or your mother understood expressed stated command in the Bible by God, that unrepentant sinners shall and must be excommunicated from the congregation? Disfellowshiping is an internal cleansing action by God's holy spirit to keep the congregation clean.
Apart from religion, the drone strikes by some governments to remove renegade citizens of theirs, what is your take.

20s years ago is 1995, and I was born years after she was disfellowshipped.

My dad wasn't a JW when they met, but is now. My mum did not leave for him, that all came afterwards; she left for many reasons. I really don't want to get into the issue of my dad, it's a hurt intertwined with conflict that is very personal and quite raw right now, so we'd better leave it there.

The Bible is yours, make of it what you can; I don't like to go to war with its words as I do have respect for them. But, for example, when somebody tells me that excommunication is about ridding the congregation of sin, and then you learn that your friend was groomed from so so young and eventually had a relationship with this older married person of significance in your local congregation, you feel at a loss when the friend gets all their achievements taken from them in an instant, but the older more culpable person remains as they ever were. It's happening, right now, don't even doubt that for a second. So all this Bible talk and reasoning from JWs gets devalued, in the same way as other hypocritical religions (aren't they all in some way ).

The government selects its weapons for use on its own renagade citizens, a very apt analogy. If the government dictates the rules to its citizens, makes them all live by these rules and suppresses their right to act any differently, what place does true freedom, justice and actual peace have in this scenario? You have likened excommunication/the JW org to North Korea; people are being forced to think uniformly, and their leaders take pride in constantly reminding them that only they have the privilege of being truly free. And what about justice; is it justice if only the government calls it so? Then years down the line, the government changes the rules and some people are no longer labelled renegade, but it's too late because they have been blown to pieces in the name of Justice. Are these leaders not afraid of a mass revolt against them due to lack of faith in their ever changing rules? Nope. Your average dictatorship works tirelessly to avoid such scenarios. Keep the people busy with a lifetime of manipulation and fear, and they will rarely ever speak up collectively. Any individuals are small fry and can easily be handled with little distruption to the main operation. The model works.... and then there is God/Jehovah.

paulGrundy:


I love this analogy,just like a dictatorial military regime, it best describes the state of JW's and ex-JW's.

JW's here are the compliant citizens, slaves to their country. obeying every dot of the law and swallowing all hook line and sinker.

The dissidents (ex-JW's) who question oppressive policies are punished with drones.

You said it first!

lastmessenger:
Exactly my thought.how can you command absolute obedience for a said understanding from the bible when you are not sure the understanding is correct?how can a religion that claim to be the only true religion operate on uncertainty?jw people are just full of arguement and nothing more.

1. How do u know it's incorrect prior to the change?
U can start by disproving any of our current teaching now? And do it scripturally.

- when Samuel saw Eliab, and said what he did at 1sam 16:6, do u think Samuel thought he was at the time making a wrong conclusion? So, if God had not intervened, whom do u think would have been anointed?

When the Jews made wrong interpretation of the scripture before Jesus came, do u think they knew they were wrong?

Jehovah himself knows that the truth comes progressively. Prov 4:18; Dan 12;4

If our teachings were gotten thru divine inspiration as Samuel got, we would not have change as we do today. The GB is just being sincere and modest in that.

On the other hand, their are many prominent churches/men who have made changes in their teachings even though they claim inspiration. I wonder which position requires plausible trust! Am not the type the so called god-told-me-tell-u can deceive again.

Am ready to accept other religion, but only if that religion shows me why my current position is wrong? Using the scriptures, not word of mouth. Yes, I dedicated my life to do Jah's will, not the will of the Gov body of JWs. So, why am I a witness? Because all available evidence points to them as the true religion, and the ones who endeavor to STICK by what is written. All my life, I ve not seen people who love the truth found in Gods word the bible as they do. And I can't change because many of you seem to be blind over it.

I wonder how they can't be the true religion, yet they have masterful knowledge of Gods word that shut the mouth of the so called inspired men of God. I am a living witness. The knowledge I ve acquired here have made me to even shut the mouth of so called men of God I ve encountered. I never had that strength when I was in the church, and never did i overpower a single witness when in the church,ie when it comes to the use of the scriptures.

Of course, they are not inspired, but I ve seen those who claim inspiration make changes. In short, do u all chirchgoers in nairaland believe one thing? I guess u all claim to come from an inspired churches? Of course u know the implication- all cannot be correct. Again, Are u sure ur own church hasn't made changes before?

You guys can mention ur churches, let's see. Because i know many churches/men that have made changes b4.

Flytefalls:

er, okay.

I had to ask because I have been a babtized witness since 1995 and have associated with the witnesses since the eighties (probably before you were born lol) and i have always known that a woman wears a head covering when she is handling certain duties in the presence of a man.....so to hear you describe it as "new truth" was simply hilarious.

eighTHREAD:
can you prove they are a cult?

Pls do.

Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?

by Matt Slick

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness' organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. These make it non-Christian. In addition, to support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness' theology) has altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.



Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:

Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire Biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.

Additionally, the Jehovah's Witness' organization requires of its members regular weekly attendance at their "Bible Study" meetings where they are repeatedly indoctrinated with anti-Christian teachings. This is done by reading the Watchtower magazine, following along with what it says, reading the questions it asks, and reciting the answers it gives. In other words, the Watchtower Organization carefully trains its members to let the Organization do their thinking for them. For confirmation of this, please read Does the Watchtower organization control the JW's thinking?

The Witnesses are told they will be persecuted when they go door-to-door teaching their doctrines. They are further told that this is simply the enemy fighting against God's organization because they are in "the truth." So, when someone disagrees with them, they are conditioned to reflect on what the Watchtower has told them. They then feel confirmed in being in God's true organization on earth (like all cults claim).

Continue reading here:
https://carm.org/is-the-jehovahs-witness-religion-christian

honeychild:


I had to ask because I have been a babtized witness since 1995 and have associated with the witnesses since the eighties (probably before you were born lol) and i have always known that a woman wears a head covering when she is handling certain duties in the presence of a man.....so to hear you describe it as "new truth" was simply hilarious.

Hey, I'm all for hilarity in such bleak times. But my observations are absolutely true. In London, women (well certainly not any baptised witnesses I know) were not wearing head coverings during these visits, hence why it had to be cited from the Bible, thoroughly explained and demonstrated on the platform. I am not disputing your own experiences, but among the 'younger' crowd I was sitting with that night it was very new. My step-mother and aunties in the 'truth' hadn't been practicing any such head covering thing also, and they are mostly over 50. One aunt, who I shall say isn't the best example of a devout witness, proceeded to kiss her teeth when I asked her about it thus strengthening my own conclusions

It's not my religion so, if you ever get the chance to meet a sister from north London ask her yourself as I'm sure you trust in their observations more than my own.

johnw74:



Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?

by Matt Slick

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness' organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. These make it non-Christian. In addition, to support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness' theology) has altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.



Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:

Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire Biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.

Additionally, the Jehovah's Witness' organization requires of its members regular weekly attendance at their "Bible Study" meetings where they are repeatedly indoctrinated with anti-Christian teachings. This is done by reading the Watchtower magazine, following along with what it says, reading the questions it asks, and reciting the answers it gives. In other words, the Watchtower Organization carefully trains its members to let the Organization do their thinking for them. For confirmation of this, please read Does the Watchtower organization control the JW's thinking?

The Witnesses are told they will be persecuted when they go door-to-door teaching their doctrines. They are further told that this is simply the enemy fighting against God's organization because they are in "the truth." So, when someone disagrees with them, they are conditioned to reflect on what the Watchtower has told them. They then feel confirmed in being in God's true organization on earth (like all cults claim).

Continue reading here:
https://carm.org/is-the-jehovahs-witness-religion-christian

Prove!!! Show prove!!!.

dolphinheart:


Prove!!! Show prove!!!.

Sure, here they are

changed teachings

Key behind jwfacts.com is the concept that God does not direct doctrinal interpretation of the Watchtower Society, as proven by the ongoing changes to Watchtower doctrine.

A Witness will retort the Bible says the "Light Gets Brighter" and so changes are indication Watchtower it is directed by Jehovah. This is nothing more than justification for error.

This section helps prove that the concept of getting brighter is not valid. In many cases, Watchtower doctrine has not brightened or been enhanced but changed and then reverted back to the original position; flip-flopped. At other times, Watchtower has introduced doctrine as having come from Jehovah, only to later make a complete reversal to what was said. Following are a number of these doctrine.

Keep reading: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/changed-watchtower-teachings.php

Read throug the articles here: http://www.jwfacts.com/ and you will find all the proofs you ask for.

johnw74:



Sure, here they are

changed teachings

Key behind jwfacts.com is the concept that God does not direct doctrinal interpretation of the Watchtower Society, as proven by the ongoing changes to Watchtower doctrine.

A Witness will retort the Bible says the "Light Gets Brighter" and so changes are indication Watchtower it is directed by Jehovah. This is nothing more than justification for error.

This section helps prove that the concept of getting brighter is not valid. In many cases, Watchtower doctrine has not brightened or been enhanced but changed and then reverted back to the original position; flip-flopped. At other times, Watchtower has introduced doctrine as having come from Jehovah, only to later make a complete reversal to what was said. Following are a number of these doctrine.

Keep reading: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/changed-watchtower-teachings.php

Read throug the articles here: http://www.jwfacts.com/ and you will find all the proofs you ask for.

U say they are not christians, that they are cult . Show prove!!!
Show one prove that relates them to a cult group
Show one prove that shows the bible goes against their present teachings
Show one prove that they altered the bible .

dolphinheart:


U say they are not christians, that they are cult . Show prove!!!
Show one prove that relates them to a cult group
Show one prove that shows the bible goes against their present teachings
Show one prove that they altered the bible .

You didn't read the articles, did you? http://jwfacts.com I say again go and read,
all the proofs you ask for are there.

dolphinheart:


U say they are not christians, that they are cult . Show prove!!!
Show one prove that relates them to a cult group
Show one prove that shows the bible goes against their present teachings
Show one prove that they altered the bible .

Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies

by Matt Slick

The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct Biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah's coming kingdom.

If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God's Word, then what they say should prove to be true and especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization.

Continue reading here: https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

More proofs you asked for here: https://carm.org/ search the site and you will find many of jw false teachings.

Flytefalls:

Hey, I'm all for hilarity in such bleak times. But my observations are absolutely true. In London, women (well certainly not any baptised witnesses I know) were not wearing head coverings during these visits, hence why it had to be cited from the Bible, thoroughly explained and demonstrated on the platform. I am not disputing your own experiences, but among the 'younger' crowd I was sitting with that night it was very new. My step-mother and aunties in the 'truth' hadn't been practicing any such head covering thing also, and they are mostly over 50. One aunt, who I shall say isn't the best example of a devout witness, proceeded to kiss her teeth when I asked her about it thus strengthening my own conclusions

It's not my religion so, if you ever get the chance to meet a sister from north London ask her yourself as I'm sure you trust in their observations more than my own.

There were no new understanding last yr or last two years ago. Why are you lying?

Now you are fineturning, to escape the lie you spewed on previous thread.

JMAN05:


There were no new understanding last yr or last two years ago. Why are you lying?

Now you are fineturning, to escape the lie you spewed on previous thread.

Yawn.

I don't care.

Honestly, I dont.

I don't even care that you think I am lying, as I've said, talk to your brothers and sisters in north London, why should you care what I think?

dolphinheart:


U say they are not christians, that they are cult . Show prove!!!
Show one prove that relates them to a cult group

http://jwfacts.mobi/fear-and-mind-control/

Show one prove that shows the bible goes against their present teachings

"Generations" teaching has no scriptural basis.

That in the year 1919, Jesus cleansed the FDS has no root or trace to the bible.

"In 1919 the cleansed slave class could look forward to ever-expanding activities." Watchtower 1993 May 1 p.16

"Similarly, starting in 1919, Jehovah brought forth the seed of the woman as a spiritual nation." Revelation - It's Grand Climax p.184

Show one prove that they altered the bible .

1. the use of "torture stake" instead of "cross" throughout the New Testament;[274] the rendering of John 1:1, with the insertion of the indefinite article ("a" in its rendering to give "the Word was a god".

2.Romans 10:10, which uses the term "public declaration", which may reinforce the imperative to engage in public preaching, John 17:3, which used the term "taking in knowledge" rather than "know" to suggest that salvation is dependent on ongoing study.

3. the placement of the comma in Luke 23:43, which affects the timing of the fulfillment of Jesus' promise to the thief at Calvary.

Also criticized is the NWT's insertion of the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testament without extant New Testament Greek manuscript evidence that the name existed there.

paulGrundy:


http://jwfacts.mobi/fear-and-mind-control/



"Generations" teaching has no scriptural basis.

That in the year 1919, Jesus cleansed the FDS has no root or trace to the bible.

"In 1919 the cleansed slave class could look forward to ever-expanding activities." Watchtower 1993 May 1 p.16

"Similarly, starting in 1919, Jehovah brought forth the seed of the woman as a spiritual nation." Revelation - It's Grand Climax p.184



1. the use of "torture stake" instead of "cross" throughout the New Testament;[274] the rendering of John 1:1, with the insertion of the indefinite article ("a" in its rendering to give "the Word was a god".

2.Romans 10:10, which uses the term "public declaration", which may reinforce the imperative to engage in public preaching, John 17:3, which used the term "taking in knowledge" rather than "know" to suggest that salvation is dependent on ongoing study.

3. the placement of the comma in Luke 23:43, which affects the timing of the fulfillment of Jesus' promise to the thief at Calvary.

Also criticized is the NWT's insertion of the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testament without extant New Testament Greek manuscript evidence that the name existed there.

1. You have not shown me that they are a cult. Dnt direct me to a website, tell me why you think they are cult

2. You have not shown any of their present beliefs that goes contrary to bible teachings. Pls Note the word "contrary" in my question.

. Ok let me help you out.

dolphinheart:



1. You have not shown me that they are a cult. Dnt direct me to a website, tell me why you think they are cult

Another leader in the field is Dr. Margaret Singer. Dr Singer summarises Lifton’s eight points as follows.1 All eight points align closely with practices and teachings of the Watchtower Society, and I have added examples of common Watchtower reasoning to show how closely these coincide:

1. Environment Control. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. “Come out and be separate!”

“False religious propaganda from any source should be avoided like poison! Really, since our Lord has used “the faithful and discreet slave” to convey to us “sayings of everlasting life,” why should we ever want to look anywhere else?” Watchtower 1987 Nov 1 p.20

“We must also be on guard against extended association with worldly people. Perhaps it is a neighbor, a school friend, a workmate, or a business associate. We may reason, ‘He respects the Witnesses, he leads a clean life, and we do talk about the truth occasionally.’ Yet, the experience of others proves that in time we may even find ourselves preferring such worldly company to that of a spiritual brother or sister. What are some of the dangers of such a friendship?” Watchtower 1994 Feb 15 p.24

2. Mystical Manipulation. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group.

Russell

“Then I knew why the Lord had led me to it so slowly and cautiously. I needed a special preparation of heart for the full appreciation of all it contained, and I was all the more assured that it was not of my own wisdom; for if of my own why would it not have come at once?” Zion’s Watch Tower 1906 Jul 15 p.234

Rutherford

“Enlightenment proceeds from Jehovah… and is given to the faithful anointed…. the remnant are instructed by the angels of the Lord. The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thoughts to the minds of his anointed ones.” Preparation p.64

Current Governing Body

“The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization.” Watchtower 1974 Jul 15 p.441

“Today, Jehovah provides instruction by means of “the faithful steward.” (Luke 12:42)” Pay Attention to Yourself and to All The Flock p.13

3. Demand for Purity. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or personal level. “Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed.”

“The resulting peaceableness of Jehovah’s people makes them a refreshing oasis in a violent world.” Watchtower 2002 Jul 1 p.17

“DO YOU attend meetings at a Kingdom Hall of Jehovahs Witnesses? There you see a people far different from any other! Who are these people, and why are they different? We are Gods own people, and we are different because we bear the grandest of all namesthat of the glorious Creator of all the marvels of the universe around us.” Watchtower 1988 Jan 15 p.10

4. Cult of Confession. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

“So, if doubts, complaints, or apostasy threaten to contaminate you spiritually, cut them away quickly! (Compare Matthew 5:29, 30.) Get help from the congregation elders.” Watchtower 1989 Oct 1 p.18

“It is certainly not easy to confess to others deeds that one feels ashamed of and to seek forgiveness. It takes inner strength.” Watchtower 2001 Jun 1 p.31

“If he does not do this within a reasonable period of time, concern for the cleanness of the congregation should move you to report the matter to the elders” Watchtower 1989 Oct 15 pp.14-15

“Employers have a right to expect that their Christian employees will ‘exhibit good fidelity to the full,’ including observing rules on confidentiality. There may be occasions when a faithful servant of God is motivated by his personal convictions, based on his knowledge of God’s Word, to strain or even breach the requirements of confidentiality because of the superior demands of divine law. Courage and discretion would be needed. The objective would not be to spy on another’s freedom but to help erring ones and to keep the Christian congregation clean.” Watchtower 1987 Sep 1 p.15

5. Sacred Science. The group’s perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.

“First, since “oneness” is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding.” Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14

6. Loaded Language. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members “think” within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group’s doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a “black and white” mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.

‘the truth’, ‘new system’, ‘publisher’, ‘worldly people’, ‘disfellowship’ ‘Jehovah’s Organization’, ‘RV’s’, ‘door to door’ and ‘theocratic’.

7. Doctrine over Person. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

“The world is filled with unhappiness, and people generally have a gloomy outlook on the future. However, we have a bright outlook, knowing that one day all sadness will be a thing of the past.” Kingdom Ministry Feb 2002 p.1

8. Dispensing of Existence. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.

“Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.” Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

“From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah’s people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude…They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching …” Watchtower 1981 Aug 15 p.29

“To turn away from Jehovah and his organization, to spurn the direction of “the faithful and discreet slave,” and to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land.” Watchtower 1985 Jun 1 p.20

Jwfacts.mobi

2. You have not shown any of their present beliefs that goes contrary to bible teachings. Pls Note the word "contrary" in my question.

The 1919 cleasing of the FDS is still believed to this day and it has changed only slightly, if not the gb would no longer the spiritual leader of the watchtower.

Proof in the quote below:

"To settle that question, Jesus began to inspect the spiritual temple in 1914. That inspection and cleansing work involved a period of time—from 1914 to the early part of 1919.[3] ... Endnotes:... Paragraph 6: [3] This is an adjustment in understanding. Previously, we thought that Jesus’ inspection took place in 1918." (Watchtower 2013 Jul 15 pp.11,14)

The generations teaching which has changed over time is still believed.

What other proof again do you want? . Should I provide you with the Video clip of a governing body member writing the above quote?

@ paulgrundy impostor

Torture stake/cross: what is the original greek word used in the new testament and what does it mean ? .

How can you prove that the english word "cross" is correct/accurate/right than the english words "torture stake " in describing the greek word.

Did the bible describe the structure in which jesus was impaled to imply that the use of the word "torture state is wrong"


John 1:1 : Is there an indefinite article in the original greek manuscript ? If the answer is no, why then do some translations add the letter "a" in other places . When you tell us "why", we can then go back to john 1:1 to see why the nwt and some other translations render it differently .

Romans 10:10.: I dnt understand you here, is public preaching wrong?(read 1 cor 9:16)
The word "may" has already put a big question mark on ur assertions.
What is that scripture telling you?

Nwt. :with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the
mouth one makes public
declaration for salvation.

New International Version: For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are
saved.

New Living Translation: For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.


International Standard Version: For one believes with his heart
and is justified, and declares
with his mouth and is saved.

GOD'S WORD® Translation : By believing you receive God's approval, and by declaring your faith you are saved.

I surely do not see anything wrong in how the nwt rendered that verse.



John 17:3 : Do you know who God is once or there is a continous knowledge (learning ) about God ?
Can you claim to know everything there is no know about jehovah?

What is wrong if the scripture
As rendered in nwt implies an ongoing study. Is there a time you stop studying ?

Pls read
Ephesians 4:13
Philippians 1:9
1 Timothy 6:20
2 Peter 3:18


Luke 23:43 : What time did the thief go into paradise.? Where is paradise? Does the original greek texts have commas?
Does all the other translations follow the same format in the placement of commas in their translations?

Criticism on the use of the name jehovah in the new testament:

The way I address this issue to to first ask you. Does your bible remove Gods name in some, if not all places it has been found to be mentioned ? Why was this done.

dolphinheart:
@ paulgrundy's impostor admirer

Torture stake/cross: what is the original greek word used in the new testament and what does it mean ? .

How can you prove that the english word "cross" is correct/accurate/right than the english words "torture stake " in describing the greek word.

Did the bible describe the structure in which jesus was impaled to imply that the use of the word "torture state is wrong"


John 1:1 : Is there an indefinite article in the original greek manuscript ? If the answer is no, why then do some translations add the letter "a" in other places . When you tell us "why", we can then go back to john 1:1 to see why the nwt and some other translations render it differently .

Romans 10:10.: I dnt understand you here, is public preaching wrong?(read 1 cor 9:16)
The word "may" has already put a big question mark on ur assertions.
What is that scripture telling you?

Nwt. :with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the
mouth one makes public
declaration for salvation.

New International Version: For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are
saved.

New Living Translation: For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.


International Standard Version: For one believes with his heart
and is justified, and declares
with his mouth and is saved.

GOD'S WORD® Translation : By believing you receive God's approval, and by declaring your faith you are saved.

I surely do not see anything wrong in how the nwt rendered that verse.



John 17:3 : Do you know who God is once or there is a continous knowledge (learning ) about God ?
Can you claim to know everything there is no know about jehovah?

What is wrong if the scripture
As rendered in nwt implies an ongoing study. Is there a time you stop studying ?

Pls read
Ephesians 4:13
Philippians 1:9
1 Timothy 6:20
2 Peter 3:18


Luke 23:43 : What time did the thief go into paradise.? Where is paradise? Does the original greek texts have commas?
Does all the other translations follow the same format in the placement of commas in their translations?

Criticism on the use of the name jehovah in the new testament:

The way I address this issue to to first ask you. Does your bible remove Gods name in some, if not all places it has been found to be mentioned ? Why was this done.

Typical red herring approach, I knew it since you were backed to the corner, you would try to derail the thread

You questioned the accuracy of the NWT, I showed you the mistranslations. If you want to question the contextual meaning/interpretations of those text, open a seperate thread, state these points there and invite me, I will honour it.

paulGrundy:
. Ok let me help you out.




Jwfacts.mobi



The 1919 cleasing of the FDS is still believed to this day and it has changed only slightly, if not the gb would no longer the spiritual leader of the watchtower.

Proof in the quote below:

"To settle that question, Jesus began to inspect the spiritual temple in 1914. That inspection and cleansing work involved a period of time—from 1914 to the early part of 1919.[3] ... Endnotes:... Paragraph 6: [3] This is an adjustment in understanding. Previously, we thought that Jesus’ inspection took place in 1918." (Watchtower 2013 Jul 15 pp.11,14)

The generations teaching which has changed over time is still believed.

What other proof again do you want? . Should I provide you with the Video clip of a governing body member writing the above quote?

A sincere mind reading your post will see where ur quotes have gone wrong.
You are indirectly showing how good they are .

1. If you think fleeing from false doctrines and its propaganda as environmental control. Then I do not find your christianity questionable.
Bet you will be happy as a freedom fighter, the recent trend in legalizing gay marriage. You have not said anything on that issue (homosexual) yet.

If you think being on guard against those you choose as friends means you should not have any friend at all. Then you have a lot to learn about jehovahs witnesses. You are quick to search out how they are to be on guard against worldly people, but not quick to search out how they advice you in selecting friends, in the organization and outside, and what friendship should entail.
Should you as a Christian be friends with someone who acts in ways that are contrary to ur bible trained conscience? Does such actions determine you are a cult.?

2. Mystical manipulations? Do you have to lie or follow a lie to prove ur claim?

3. Demand for purity . So if an organization strive to be pure before jehovah , it means that that organization is a cult abi? .
Bro , that the organization you associate with is not able to achieve that level or purity does not mean those who are trying to achieve and maintain the level of purity as required by the scriptures are a cult.

When you attend a congregation of witnesses, you will see there is no discrimination as to race or colour, no white or black only church. No race based religious group.
Like you have noticed, those with sincere humble hearts that attend their gatherings feel warm and welcomed. It takes them away from the mindset of these selfish, self assuming, position seeking, violent world we live in. Is that not a good thing? Is it not a good thing to talk about good things to come for mankind? .

4. I dnt need to go into the good quotes you posted. Unless you want to prove that following the scriptures directives requires you being a cult. or has any of the things you listed in 4 gone contrary to scriptural directives on such issues?

5. It is easy to see your exagerations. Tell me, do you have personal opinions contrary to the religious organization you associate with? If yes,what is the religious association and what is ur contrary opinion .?

6. Verry funny, bet Catholics, Anglicans etc and there words make them narrow minded and a cult. if not ,then you are wrong in saying jehovahs witnesses are a cult.

7. I do not understand you, have you forgoten that the organization you are accusing of being a cult is a religious based organization?
You point to their general outlook but avoid there statements on individual outlook and emotions. I see hypocricy here. The words " people generally is there to show you that the next words is not meant for everybody.





It seems you dnt to understand simple requests, I asked you to show me that your or the undestanding of the bible scriptures goes contrary to the organizations understanding. You are here repeating and rephrasing with no bible verse or verses to show that the organizations understanding is wrong.

paulGrundy:


Typical red herring approach, I knew it since you were backed to the corner, you would try to derail the thread

You questioned the accuracy of the NWT, I showed you the mistranslations. If you want to question the contextual meaning/interpretations of those text, open a seperate thread, state these points there and invite me, I will honour it.

Haba! , I'm now derailing the thread! .
You say its mistranslated, pls prove its mistranslated na! . How can you know its the translation is correct or not if you dnt question the contextual meaning/ interpretations of the texts.
You are trying to confuse people, you ended up tying urself in knots. You can't answer the questions you assertations digged up.

dolphinheart:


Haba! , I'm now derailing the thread! .
You say its mistranslated, pls prove its mistranslated na! . How can you know its the translation is correct or not if you dnt question the contextual meaning/ interpretations of the texts.
You are trying to confuse people, you ended up tying urself in knots. You can't answer the questions you assertations digged up.

I don't understand why you keep turning yourself in circles, is this about your ego or about the truth? Many JW's in this forum JMAN05 and co, even watchtower publications admit that the NWT of those verses deviate from the literal manuscripts, the only problem is that they claim that NWT translates it accurately. There have been several threads on those verses in this site. if you want to engage me, simple! Open a new thread, invite me, and I will honour. I can't seem to understand the hesitation on your part. I have no apologies for anyone whose ego has been gored.

Funny you