The pope made a statement we all know to be true even if it was done in bad taste so why the hullaboo? we all know that islam is a violent religion or is it not the prophet Mohamed who said to spread his religion by the sword to the sea?
Give me a break and lets call a spade a spade. at least to dont scream insult when a muslim faithful calls me an infidel .

in this day,when there seems to be a lot of unrest,all leaders(both political and religious)should all thread softly.

THE POPE SHOULd NOT APOLOGIZE. Muslims always accuse others of not understanding their religion but they never make any effort to understand or accomodate. Imagine the Pakistani parliament threatening apology or violence. Must every issue be resolved through viloence.

We don't understand Islam because they even don't understand themselves. The Shites and Sunnis hate each other as much as they hate the west and as usual resort ot violence to settle the score.

Others can't draw, can't speak, can't write or blink at their religion yet their's a mosque in Rome and no church in Saudi Arabia. What are they afraid of?

It is ironical that those who claim their religion is "peace" would VIOLENTLY protest a statement that depicts the long held truth that such a religion is deeply rooted in violence!

What can inter-faith initiatives accomplish where leaders prove so clumsy?

Anyone who doubts the Koran teaches and incites violence ought to open the Koran and read for themselves.
You can even read it online now so the teachings are no more hidden.

I just pray the Northern Christians and non muslims in Naija are armed to the teeth by now.
These animals must be taught a lesson when they come wielding a machete in the name of allah.

sirwebs:

THE POPE SHOULd NOT APOLOGIZE. Muslims always accuse others of not understanding their religion but they never make any effort to understand or accomodate. Imagine the Pakistani parliament threatening apology or violence. Must every issue be resolved through viloence.

We don't understand Islam because they even don't understand themselves. The Shites and Sunnis hate each other as much as they hate the west and as usual resort ot violence to settle the score.

Others can't draw, can't speak, can't write or blink at their religion yet their's a mosque in Rome and no church in Saudi Arabia. What are they afraid of?

Let me tell you what they are afraid of.
In the late eighties and nineties while I was in Naija.
After any crusades in the North,thousands of Muslims declare for Christ nightly.
Christian missionaries in the north have led to the conversion of a zillion Muslims as their eyes open to the truth in Christ.

They are afraid of competition because they know that the gospel of Christ beats the Mohammed mumbo Jumbo hands down so they suppress any means for their people to be exposed to any thing else even sensor the internet sites their people can go on.

But thanks to satellite TV,they cannot filter everything.
Daily on the Christian network,we get calls and emails from Iran,Iraq and Saudi of Muslims giving their lives to Christ as the good news of salvation enters in.

The heart of man seeks to know the true God Muslim men and women daily come to Christ on bended knees.
In all the war ravaged places in the middle east and everwhereelse who goes there?
Christian doctors and missionaries spreading the gospel as well as healing the sick.
I will have an opportnity soon to go on my first mission trip.

For in Christ there are no males or female,bond or free,Jew or gentile,black or white.

@Olabowale et al:
It is very unfortunate how a discussion that should have been a pure intellectual exercise has turned rather distasteful, with exchange of nasty words. I tried to recap how it all started by reading through again from the beginning and I saw it was due to our all-knowing muslim 'friend' who will rather attack and educate the world (albeit ignorantly) on Jesus Christ and christianity at any given opportunity rather than discuss issues about their religion. It reminded me of one of the leading ignorant figures in islam today- a certain gentleman call Hamed Didat of South Africa. This man's own ministry is to attempt to discredit bible, Jesus and christianity like many of our discussant on this forum. He was very popular with our muslim students in my undergraduate days at OAU Ife but eventually they always end up more confused because  Christ is using the 'foolish things of the world to confound the worldly-wise like them'. Anyway, this could probably be my last post on this topic but I will like to go by informing everybody, christian and muslims, of a common false reference. We do not serve the same God. Our God, Jehovah, Yahweh, the Alpha and Omega who came doww to earth to redeem us from our sins as Jesus the Christ, is not the same as allah.
(1) Why do muslim face the east to pray? they say they are facing mecca!!, but even muslims in far east still face east (ideally they should face west if they want to face mecca; and the ones in north pole and south pole should face maybe south-east and north-east respectively if they want to face mecca) But they all face east all over the world- it is not that they are facing mecca but rather worshipping the sun. Read Ezekiel Chapter 8 vs 14 to 17.[i][/i]
(2) Why is the islamic symbols the crescent (half moon) and a star? (3) why do muslims always wait for the appearance of moon before they can start or end their so called ramadan at this time and age of 21st century? The reason is because their's is an idolatrous religion that worship the consterllations, i.e the sun, the moon and the stars, no wonder the constant urge to violence and shedding of blood, because sacrifice must be made to their master in "hades". All this takes a deeper spiritual understanding and we must continue to pray for the salvation of their souls and continue to bombard your neighbouhood, Europe, Nigeria, Africa, the middle east etc with gospel of Jesus through satellite TV, missionary works, evangelism and charity etc. Their souls are still precious to God and we must take the gospel of Jesus to them. Pray for your muslim friends, for their eyes which has been blinded from knowledge of truth by the rulers of darkness of this world to open. Remember, JEHOVAH is NOT allah!! don't be deceived!!. Remember he is a jealous God, and we must have no other God beside him; this also means don't call Him by a name that is not His, or think He is who he is not. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! Shalom

One of the thing that bothers me a lot is the vast ignorance about Muhammad and Islam by the generality of the world,Muslims and non-muslims.But the good thing is that the Koran and all those Hadiths which the mullahs have refused to let get into 'infidels' hand for centuries is now getting accessible to everybody for us to learn more about this religion that means peace while they suicide-bomb the 'unbelievers'.
It's my belief that if the book is freely available in all the languages of the world,most people would have known that it's only a fraudulent mixture of Arabian paganism, violent hatred of humanity with gross contempt for human life.
The comments are a mild appraisal of the religion of the Jihad-terrorists.

Certainly all muslims are not terrorists (in the prevailing sense of the word) but can anyone explain to me why all terrorists are muslims?. If the acts of violence are not committed in the name of their deity, can it be explained to me why many suicide bombers are known to scream Allahu Akbar before blowin themselves to smithereens?

While not denying the fact that the world wars (I&II) were predominantly executed by so called christian nations, it is instructive to note that they NEVER did so in the name of God or Christ.

Methinks that the adherents of islam have an ingrained persecution complex.

Brownsuga:

What can inter-faith initiatives accomplish where leaders prove so clumsy?

So much for inter-faith.You Muslims have to know the world is weary of your violence, and cold blooded murders in the name of Muhammad.You cannot fly from Heathrow because of Jihadists,you are wary of getting on the bus or the tube because of some heavily bearded fellows full of hate, their bodies strapped with grenades,you cannot tour a historical site because of somebody who is going to scream alla akbar while emptying A-K 47 into your face.Have you forgotten there are other religions in the world and none of them take up arms against the rest of mankind like Islam? You kill Jews in Isreal,Christians in Nigeria and Indonesia,Hindus in India,Animists and Christians in Sudan.And you talk of inter-faith to people who are tolerating you,people at the receiving end of your countless atrocities.
Sadly you are continuing where Muhammad stopped.You need to get yourself well-informed about the facts of his life before you blab 'Islam means peace' again.

Theory: Proof that Islam = Peace

Yet more proof that Islam means peace as those who protest being labeled as violent use violence to demonstrate!

What an example of Islamic "peace and tranquility"! They cant even love themselves!

Dozens of bodies found in Baghdad
Forty-seven bodies have been found across Baghdad, police say, raising the total number of corpses found in recent days in the Iraqi capital to 176.
Many of the victims had been tortured or shot in the head or chest.
Police said 21 bodies were found in eastern Baghdad, and the other 26 in the west of the city.
A BBC correspondent in Baghdad says many are likely to have been killed by sectarian death squads, but some may have been victims of criminal gangs.
The discovery of the 47 bodies came just a day after police said they had recovered 50 corpses from the city's streets in a 24-hour period.

@ Olabowale
You talk as if only Christians convert to Islam. Have you forgotten that Muslims do the same? I attended an Islamic School and I am very Used to this Kind of Statements.

The anger of Islamists is that They want pure religion The arabs as the purest and the others as the outsiders The arab Muslim man can marry ay one But it is Aram for a Black man to marry a Arab girl except she has to run away and be caught and killed honourably if i am lying ask our brothers in Libya dem go tell you.

There is segregation in any religion tribe or civilization. forget about your own religion? Fraud and lies is steering at Islam in the face and You look outside: Look at ogrish.com you will see what my rugged muslim brothers are doing? Arab want to Islamize the world but they have failed and will still fail because The bible standeth sure.

You say Jesus is not a Jew? I cant but Laugh If you like know the Chief High Priest CAIPHAS. JESUS IS REGARDED AS THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH his genealogy is ISREAL Infact the Inscription on his crucifix is written as JESUS KING OF THE JEWS It written LATIN GREEK AND JEWISH. You attack him in your wrte ups alot and i dont care you like him or not he is GOD YOUR MAKER YOU SHALL STAND TRIAL.

I went to a muslim School I know the doctrines very well that they put in the heads of their followers there is no amount of Insult you can Insult Jesus My GOD That will Move me He Was spat, he was slapped, but where are they now only the name of Jesus is healing delivering people from the power of sin and even saving Muslims and you are saying all kinds of things. I always say Accuse Jesus of sin and let me see. WHO IS MUHAMED? A mere man that cooked up all the religion of Asia and other parts of the world said ISLAM is the new one.

please I maintain Islam is a fraud and there are many books that point to the fact READ "WHO IS THIS ALLAH" Written by a Moslem Converted to Christ, SATANIC VERSES now protected.

There many other Apologetics you will be cleared on the bible truths: how can killing a person be holy War?

I would want to believe the Quran (spelling?), has quotable chapters and verses like the bible does. Dont you all think it would make an interesting task to specify the location of these "Mohammed sayings" so we can have our muslim brothers clarify for us?

I would specifically love to know exactly where Mohammed asked to spread the word by the sword and then have a muslim brother defend the statement. U never know, the sword might actually be code word for something else

@pearl2, you sound like a smart person to me. But with all due respect your outbursts prove otherwise: How can you say "you Muslims". I cant blame you or any other Chistian for the actions of a few violent Christians causing havoc in the world, simply because you are one. I am a peace-loving Muslim and i condemn all violence. I also happen to know of thousands of other Muslims who share the same opinion as I, who are against violence but believe in freedom of speech. You can not generalise.

The point i was making above was, i am involved in interfaith dialogues in Europe and we have accomplished plenty and bridged many gaps- by the simple tools of contact and communication. It is amazing what ignorance does.

The Pope, made a point and used histrorical references. In sum, what he said, which baffled many (Christians included), was that Islam was spread by force. I am sure you wil agree with me that so was Christianity. I dont have to deliberate further, as history speaks for itself.

However, one thing all the non-Muslim writers in this thread are missing are the nuances of life. It seems as though you see things only in black and white. There is no such thing as the "the Muslim" nor "the Islam". I have said it many times before and I will always say it: there is much diversity (geography, ethnicity and even race) and complexity (interpretation, denominations, etc) within the religion of Islam. And yes, though it may be hard for you to belive, there are liberal, peace-loving Muslims in the world today.

As for the picture, it is a pity you did not choose to post the peaceful demonstrations held by Muslims worldwide, protesting against the outbursts of the Pope. No, you chose to post this one because you have one aim in mind, to discredit Islam, with total disregard for its shades. I have seen many global protests by non-Muslims with a similar 'violent' character but nobody concluded they were religion-inspired.

Lastly, i dare say that most terrorist acts are NOT based on religion, no they are based on politics. Terrorism, or whatever you call it, is a POLITICAL war between the West and 'the Islamic world ' based on power, resources, humiliation, degradation, injustice, geography etc, religion is just one element, a tool or means to, among other things, recruit support.

And please dont get me wrong!
The Pope can say anything he wants, BUT the Pope is not just anybody!
He is an influential religious leader whose words are, obviously, eagerly listened to and obeyed by millions and they have hence a colossal impact on the psyche of individuals.
Also what was the point?!!!
Why not say something constructive instead of destructive, something that will BIND people and bring alienating commnuities together?

And the choice of timing; why now? We are at a time when our leaders must focus on the here and now and not on historical negativities in spreading love for humanity. I mean what is the point??

If Islam is soooo bad, well Christianity must rule by example! Dont ya think?

The Pope will speak today in repsonse to his regretable words.
I wonder what he will say.

Cheers.

@ brownsuga

Brownsuga:


As for the picture, it is a pity you did not choose to post the peaceful demonstrations held by Muslims worldwide, protesting against the outbursts of the Pope. No, you chose to post this one because you have one aim in mind, to discredit Islam, with total disregard for its shades. I have seen many global protests by non-Muslims with a similar 'violent' character but nobody concluded they were religion-inspired.
Lastly, i dare say that most terrorist acts are NOT based on religion, no they are based on politics. Terrorism, or whatever you call it, is a POLITICAL war between the West and 'the Islamic world ' based on power, resources, humiliation, degradation, injustice, geography etc, religion is just one element, a tool or means to, among other things, recruit support.

True there have been global protests by "non-christians", but how many of them have included burning of flags, bombing of religious sites and destroying of embassies? How many of such protests have been conducted in the name of God?

It is naive and amounts to playing th ostrich for you to conclude that terrorism is based not on religion but on politics. How do you justify forcing innocent journalists to convert to Islam at gun point, the killing of tourists in Amman, Jordan in the name of Allah, the recent threat from alqueada to Americans to convert to Islam or face more bombings among others? Indeed these are all political sayings!

Brownsuga:


If Islam is soooo bad, well Christianity must rule by example! Dont ya think?

The Pope will speak today in repsonse to his regretable words.
I wonder what he will say.
Cheers.

Rather than focus on Islam and why it is so violent, muslims rather hide under the banner of "christianity did the same too!"

Where were you when Ahmedinajad of Iran threatened to drive Isreal into the sea and told us the holocaust was not true? Did Isrealis protest by burning flags and bombing Iranian facilities? Did anyone arrogantly "order" ahmedinajad to render a public apology? I wonder why the pope is even bothering with these hordes of maurading bandits who call themselves slaves of god!

SORRY TO POST THIS AGAIN, BUT CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP OUT HERE!!!

I would want to believe the Quran (spelling?), has quotable chapters and verses like the bible does. Dont you all think it would make an interesting task to specify the location of these "Muhammad sayings" so we can have our muslim brothers clarify for us?

I would specifically love to know exactly where Muhammad asked to spread the word by the sword and then have a muslim brother defend the statement.

Interestingly enough, <They> will soon begin burning churches in the north again over the Pope's statements. – Kenshin

It is so clear now that one of the surest way to commit siucide is to go out and say anthing about islam. God is LOVE and not HATE – Charlo

There are news reports on the slaying of a Catholic nun in Somalia. The poor woman who chose to give up all life’s comforts to serve in a war-torn land was shot three times in the back because of what the Pope said. What does this prove?

to all the muslims on this forum, I just want to know why violence always follows any perceived criticism(s) to Islam. Why must there be violent reactions to words spoken against Islam.

I've asked this question on another thread but all I kept getting was comparisons between Islam and Christianity, and so on. While not claiming that christians are perfect, I would like to know what the peaceful muslims have to say about their fellow 'un-peaceful' brethren.

So please can someone, say, Olabowale or Brownsuga, give me an answer/explanation?

much obliged

The Pope has apologised and is "deeply sorry".
I am glad that he did this.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/17/pope.islam/index.html

enugu:

to all the muslims on this forum, I just want to know why violence always follows any perceived criticism(s) to Islam. Why must there be violent reactions to words spoken against Islam. So please can someone, say, Olabowale or Brownsuga, give me an answer/explanation?

much obliged

You have a point there about the fact that MANY Muslims are over-sensitive to critic. I myself have problems with this and had to face the consequences. I think the fact that MEN are in the forefront of Islam plays a big role. The patriarchal nature of Islam is what the world has seen and what the world knows of. Men with a warrior-menatlity have dominated Islam and many women who have criticised this have faced big problems. But a change is on its way and many Muslim women have broken barriers, some even becoming Imams etc,

However, I dont agree with you that the protest are always violent. For that is simply not true. The violent ones are the ones that make it to Media and sensationalised,

Dialogue and debate are important, but of course, i can not provide answers to all the raised questions. And what kind of answers do you expect? , It will always be a subjective one , It all comes down to the individual.

I heard about the nun. We call condemn this and distance ourselves from this brutal act. May her soul rest in peace.

davidylan:

@ brownsuga

True there have been global protests by "non-christians", but how many of them have included burning of flags, bombing of religious sites and destroying of embassies? How many of such protests have been conducted in the name of God?

It is naive and amounts to playing th ostrich for you to conclude that terrorism is based not on religion but on politics.

1. I have seen many, too many to mention, you only need to go to google,

2. I was stating an opinion reflecting reality, an opinion that many share with me, you dont have to necessarily agree with me. As for the name calling, i think that was pretty childish.

Brown suga please post a few of the beheadings,flag burnings and threats of world unrest done in the name of Christ with them shouting a Christian version of allahu akhbar.
I am dying to see it.

I think that You dont Know what Jesus Our God Said No mincing words The theif cometh to steal kill and destroy.

@ brownsuga You are in minority and thank JESUS You are not in an arab country You may not last. It is either you are a fanatic or You sponsor one.

 It is in your Quran read it or you have not reached yet? Voilence is a form of Jihad How did Mr Muhamed spread it? With a correct sharp sword.

I saw a muslim brother come back from Libya and he told me he wants to start going to church. I asked him why he said they were very wicked. This my friend is a Ghanaian he name is Shuaibu But we call SHAIBEBE. Even in Ghana here if you are looking for thugs to beat people up you have to go to ZONGOS {THEY ARE ISLAMIC SLUMS} The most notorius is NIMA. I have lived here for along time but this people are ruthless.

We were watching a Boxing  fight one day Their Guy Tyson lost  and The other guy won They were angry and they threw a few slaps though I was sad that tyson lost.

Look The Moderates are In Minority and even then in their hearts they lie in wait for any uprising. In Intelligence this is what you call Sleepers The are more dangerous than normal soldiers. There Nothing Like moderate Muslim. when you bring up their evils they say we are moderates.

Yes So called christian Ruler made war with xtians and pagans and Muslims in the early days but look at Jesus christ Peter cut of the ear of a soldier but Jesus The Creator of man put the ear back What holiness humility love peace, no man like Jesus No GOD LIKE Him Jare?

All of you watch what will happen The chaff will be seperated from the wheat. Forget about Muhamed He will stand trial at the great White throne of judgement He will wish he never made those lies. If he had his way he wanted to make himself popular. He killed many My God Jesus raised the dead Yours kiled and the followers are still killing !!!!!!!!!!

You can never stop them Try and let me see you do.

A heart warming clip of former terrorists who turned their lives around.
Happy viewing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTDGJJgtVus&mode=related&search=

a 2 part interview with the ex terrorists.Listen and make up your own minds.
Listen especially to the one on the far left born and raised in Michigan.
Islam=Terror don't let anyone deceive you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeGlrsI-nwg&mode=related&search=



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhOtNtixdP4&mode=related&search=

The religion of peace at work.Deranged hooligans fit for a psych ward.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AxYBPiLxuo

Brownsuga:

You have a point there about the fact that MANY Muslims are over-sensitive to critic. I myself have problems with this and had to face the consequences. I think the fact that MEN are in the forefront of Islam plays a big role.

MEN are also in the forefront of Christianity.

When "peaceful" men protest!

Italian nun shot dead in Somalia
Gunmen have shot dead an elderly Italian nun and her bodyguard in the Somali capital Mogadishu.
The attackers shot the nun three times in the back at a children's hospital in the south of the city, before fleeing the scene.
The nun, who has not been named, is believed to be in her seventies.

more on the 'peaceful Islam"

http://groups.msn.com/THeTruthAboutIslam/dangerofislam.msnw