What Happens at the End of the World?

For Jesus to say "end of the world", there must be some destructive event to take place right? So what event is coming that would be an "end of the world" event? THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST JESUS!Take a look at the following Bible verses describing the second coming and you will see that THIS is the event that will "end this world" as we know it.
Revelation 1:7 ...'Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.'
2 Peter 3:10 ...'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.'
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ...'And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'
Psalm 50:3-4 ... 'Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.'
Isaiah 34:8-10 ...'For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever:from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.'
Sounds like an end of the world event doesn't it? The destroying force of the second coming of Christ Jesus, as shown in the Bible verses above, will cause the earth to be "laid waste" as described in Isaiah above. Which means that the world will NOT continue on as we know it now, which the rapture theory proclaims. Instead, the wicked will be destroyed and the earth will be laid waste. And it is AT THIS TIME that the saints are taken to heaven, not before.

We are already in the last days or last time. The last day is not one 24hour day but a period.
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Jesus does not COME to earth in the Rapture, we MEET Him in the air to be with Him forever.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Meeting Him in the air is not the second coming. At that coming, He comes with thousands to reign and execute judgement.

But What About One Taken and One Left Behind?

Matthew 24:37-42 ...'But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.'
This is such a misunderstood passage of scripture today. Take a look at the context of the above Bible verses. Do you see that Jesus is telling us that His second coming will be like what happened in Noah's day? And what happened in the days of Noah? The above verse tells us. The flood DESTROYED the earth, taking away the wicked and leaving behind God's people (Noah's family). Who was "taken away" and who was "left behind" in Noah's day? Take a look at the above verses again. It was the wicked who were TAKEN and Noah was LEFT BEHIND! And this is what Christ is pointing us to. He is saying that the day is coming when the earth will be destroyed again and the wicked will be TAKEN and the saints will be LEFT BEHIND.
Please take note of the following VITAL point.
Luke 17:35-37 ...'Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him,Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.'
Why did the disciples ask 'WHERE, LORD'? Were they wondering where the one left behind was? No, that person would be in the same place as they were. So the disciples are clearly asking where has the one taken gone. And what did Jesus say? "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." The body? In the original language, the word Eagle can also mean Vulture. And where do Vultures gather? Where there is a dead body! And look at what Job says about the Eagle:
Job 39:27-30 ...'Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high? She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place. From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off. Her young ones also suck up blood:and where the slain are, there is she.'
And in Matthew 24, Jesus even makes it clearer by saying it is a CARCASS! So the one taken is the wicked who will be killed.
And what did we already confirm would happen during the harvest at the end? Let's read it again ...'and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.'(Matthew 13) ... The wicked are "taken" first and the saints are left behind to then be "gathered into My barn" (taken to heaven).
The whole context of Matthew 24 is a warning for us to "watch and be ready" so that the "sudden destruction" that is to come upon the world (1 Thess. 5:3) will not TAKE US by surprise. Just like what happened in Noah's day. Who were taken? The wicked. Who were left behind? Noah and his family!

indeed, Matthew 24 is a complex and often misunderstood passage. But please observe the CONTEXT. The answers Jesus gave were to three questions. Given that He did not answer them like i would probably do but mixed the answers up so much, you would need God's help to understand it. Here is the question, at least the question can be understood and clear even if the answer is long and maybe complex.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Please OBSERVE and note that He was asked THREE questions.
-When shall these things be?
- And what shall be the sign of thy coming?
- and of the end of the world?
They asked about three separate events, about when the temple would be destroyed which happened about 70years after, about the sign of Jesus' coming(You see His coming was not something hidden), and then the END of the world. After His coming, He will reign for at least 1000 years as King, and His saints as kings on this same earth. It is AFTER that reign and coming so much publicized by the prophets that the world will end. The gaps are wide for the three events. But the question and the answer almost treat them like they will all happen at once, except he that reads 'understands'.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Gen 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The saints are taken out of the way, not left behind. The gathering of God's people is UNTO the Lord.

Caught Up to Meet the Lord in the Air

In light of what we have learned above. What does it mean when the Bible says we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air? Exactly as it says! You see, those who hold to the rapture theory try to get something out of this verse that just isn't there! The truth is, when Christ Jesus returns at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, the dead saints will be resurrected and the saints who are still alive will be "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air. And then we will be taken to heaven to start the 1000 year millennium.
And why do we "meet the Lord in the air"? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be at the END of the 1000 year millennium.
This is another misunderstanding that the rapture theory causes. Jesus is not going to rule on earth during the 1000 years. Instead, we are going to be in heaven with Him during this time, and the earth will be "laid waste" from His second coming. And only AFTER the 1000 years will we return to earth with Christ.
The rapture theory is a false teaching, and the Bible proves that fact.
Credits: www.end -times-prophecy.org

How can anyone say that Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. That is most absurd as the scripture is quite clear on that both in the Old and new testament.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The Bible is FILLED with the promise of His COMING again and coming quickly, and then you virtually come to tell us that He is not coming?
He will come, and He will touch down and set foot on Mount Olives, and the scriptures cannot be broken.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

How can any believer say that Jesus will not reign on earth? What then are we praying Thy Kingdom come for? Please, finally, read Revelation 19 and 20. It is fairly straight. Jesus will come to earth, the beast will be captured, satan will be bound, saints will reign, satan will deceive, the judgement and the end of the world will happen. Amen.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

It is AFTER this end of the world and judgement that a new heaven and earth appear in Revelation 21. Jesus is coming soon, whether we believe in rapture or not, it is not too important. Let us live to glorigy Him, be watchful, prepared and prayerful.

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i'll like to say and remind us that doctrine and its understanding does not 'save' anyone. That air of "I believe in rapture and understand it, therefore I am better than these others", or "I do not believe in rapture and i know Bible very well, therefore I am more spiritual or godly than these others", is not of God or from above. Rapture is a MYSTERY.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The second coming of Jesus is not a mystery, or unknown, or secret, or hidden, or puzzling. Everyone is aware. In fact, even Enoch was aware a long time ago as evidenced in his prophecy. The angels told about 500 people about the second coming at Christ's ascension, and many scriptures are quite open and clear about His coming again. It is the rapture that is not too clear, and you don't even need to understand it to please God or even partake. How much doctrine did the thief at the cross know before getting to paradise, i suppose not much. Knowledge does not necessarily edify but rather puffs up. Now, to respond directly to your post/point at the risk of not being lengthy. i'll remind from this quote that Jesus told us that believers are as angels in heaven. So, when Jesus comes back with His angels or saints, they can actually/really be believers. Consider that.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

You're not getting it and it's too bad. Please understand that VITAL point. The rapture theory teaches a separation BEFORE the end. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is NO separation before the end. That Corinthians verse you shared up there doesn't change anything. I'll talk more about it.
As for the holy angels being the believers, I disagree. Read Matt. 25:31-32. He was talking about Heavenly angels who are coming to separate the sheep from the goats?
Do you see what I'm talking about?
Are you now saying the supposed "sheep" are also the holy angels? C'mon!

The words "Bible, Trinity, demons, Rapture" are not found in the Bible(at least not in the KJV/AV), this does not rule out the existence and relevance of the concepts/meanings.

You see what I'm talking about? If rapture and trinity is not in the Bible, why invent it? Is the Bible not supposed to be our sole guide? Please note: Bible simply means "Book", so the collection of scriptures into one is actually a book; Holy Book. The only phrase that looks like rapture in the Bible is "caught up" in Thessalonian. I have no problem with the word rapture, but the concept: That there's a separation BEFORE the end. As for trinity, that's a topic for another day. That concept is no where found in the Bible.

Now, you do not form doctrine from parables. Time and space would not permit me to expatiate that. It is often a case of he who has ears to hear. The kingdom of God is several times likened to several things in the Bible. Taking each one of those several things literally will not help understanding.

This is not a doctrine, my friend, it's the Bible truth. Those were the words of Jesus in parables, not doctrines of men. And you know what? He ended up explaining the parable, so you don't even have to look for the meaning.

For instance, in the parable, if you put all men as wheat and tares only, who are the "men that slept"? Who are the servants of the householder? Other nagging questions can be raised and other parables can be brought up to counter and contradict. The point here is that you do not normally take a parable to form a doctrine.

Again, this's not a doctrine, it's the Bible fact.
Read this:
Matt. 13:37-40 "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man," replied Jesus. "The field is the whole world. The good seed? That is the sons of the kingdom, while the weeds are the sons of the evil one. The blackguard who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of this world. The reapers are angels"
This's the point Jesus wants you to understand. Stop looking for what's not lost.

This again is based on that one parable. Seems like there's that much ado about the parable than is needful. i do not know how the parable relates or if the parable relates to the rapture. But i am certain of this one below, it is no parable.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
There is a mystery, and we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. That encapsulates what the rapture is about. It would happen in the twinkling of an eye. This is different from the event where EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM. That cannot happen in a moment. These ones are not parables.

The 1Cor 15:52 can not happen until the tares are separated from the wheat(Matt 13:30); goats from the sheep(parable of talents: Matt 25:32); the casting away of the bad and gathering the good into the vessel(parable of the dragnet Matt 13:48); the foolish virgins locked out from the wise ones(Matt 25:10). Do you see? This's not about one Bible verse. All Jesus parable of the last day talks about separating the bad from the good. It's after then, the dead in the Lord will be quickened and transformed and then the living saved with put on immortality. This will not happen before and there's no where in the Bible that said otherwise. We'll be transformed in a twinkle of an eye( call this rapture if you like), but it's not going to happen before the wheat or being separated from the tares at the end of the world.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ...'And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'
Isn't the above texts addressed to God's people( the troubled). The Lord is coming back for His poeple and to destroy the wicked.

Psalm 50:3-4 ... 'Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.'

Can you see that Psalm? Jesus is coming to devour the wicked and to call His own to heaven from above. It's not a separate event my friend.

Of course, the church and the wicked continue to live together on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. That's the point of the millenial 1000year reign.

Sorry Bros, this world as we know it will be laid to waste at the second coming of Christ and no, the wicked will be dead during this 1000 years.
The truth is, when Christ Jesus returns at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, the dead saints will be resurrected and the saints who are still alive will be "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air. And then we will be taken to heaven to start the 1000 year millennium.
And why do we "meet the Lord in the air"? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be at the END of the 1000 year millennium.

Who is the church coming to reign over before? Animals? No. After the tribulation, the church comes to earth with Jesus and reigns for a thousand years during which time Satan is bound. After Satan's release, he goes out to deceive people who are deceiveable. Of course, you can imagine the population growth and prosperity in a thousand year period where Jesus is reigning on earth with His saints. Not all of the people on earth will be born again or kings then, but since the tempter is locked up, there will be relative goodness.

Verse 27 of Jeremiah 4 says that the whole land is desolate, but God will not make a complete end. This matches with the truth that the earth will be 'made new', and we will inhabit this 'earth made new' after the 1000 years. So God is not going to totally destroy this world. His is going to 'burn up' all things in it (2 Peter 3:10) and then renew it (2 Peter 3:13).
And no, God's people won't spend the 1000 years on earth because, during this time, it will be desolate. Read Revelation 20:2-7 and you'll understand that during this period, the saints are going to reign with Christ as priests of God and Christ(verse 6). And no, the saved of God won't be living side by side with the wicked during this time, because they are either dead before the second coming or dead at the second coming. Revelation 20:5 made us understand that during this 1000 years, the rest of the dead(the lost) live not, so your point that they'll live together falls flat here. The lost will be dead until the expiration of the 1000 years.
When will the 1000 reign begins?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ...'For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.'

Where will the saint be during this time? Jesus has the answer: John 14:1-3 ...'Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you,I will come again, and receive you unto myself;that where I am, there ye may be also.'
We know that we will spend eternity living on the new earth. So for us to be with Jesus in heaven, we would need to be there during the 1000 year millennium, which is why Jesus said "I will come again and receive you unto Myself, that where I AM there ye may be".
Any other cooked up story about this that's not in the scripture is a lie from hell.

When the tempter comes, many will join him as tares. Then God will come and judge the earth. This is summarized kind of in revelations 19 and 20.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Remember the mention of first resurrection in Rev 20:5? It's the resurrection of the dead in the Lord. So if there's a first resurrection, there must be a second resurrection. Are we not also told that the rest of the dead lived not tii after the 1000years in Rev. 20:5?
Notice: the saints are in heaven with Christ; the lost are dead; the earth is desolate; and satan is bound in the bottomless pit( this isn't a literal prison; it's simply the earth. Why? Because the earth is desolate with only satan and no one to tempt).
After the 1000 years, the New Jerusalem will descend from God.
2 Peter 3:13 ...'Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.'
Revelation 21:1-4 ...'And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.'
Please note that the book of Revelation is not chronological.

It's at this point that the second resurrection (the lost live again after 1000years: Rev. 20:5) takes placed. At this point, satan is loosed out of his prison(state of having no one to tempt). He will deceive the resurrected lost again and gather them to attack the city, but fire from God will devour them. They will be destroyed; satan, death, grave, the beast and the lost. The Bible call it "the second death" Rev 20:14.
Support whatever the objection you have with the scripture. If you feel the rapture will happen before second coming, I want to see a prove, not 1corin 15:52 that suggests the catching up of saints at the second coming. To prove that 1cor 15:52 is talking about the second coming of Christ and not only the catching up of saints, just read from verse 23 and see for yourself
So where did you get the idea that the rapture is a mystery while the second coming is known and that they are two separate events? You see the danger of reading verses in isolation?

I tire for una o!

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We are already in the last days or last time. The last day is not one 24hour day but a period.
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Jesus does not COME to earth in the Rapture, we MEET Him in the air to be with Him forever.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Meeting Him in the air is not the second coming. At that coming, He comes with thousands to reign and execute judgement.




indeed, Matthew 24 is a complex and often misunderstood passage. But please observe the CONTEXT. The answers Jesus gave were to three questions. Given that He did not answer them like i would probably do but mixed the answers up so much, you would need God's help to understand it. Here is the question, at least the question can be understood and clear even if the answer is long and maybe complex.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Please OBSERVE and note that He was asked THREE questions.
-When shall these things be?
- And what shall be the sign of thy coming?
- and of the end of the world?
They asked about three separate events, about when the temple would be destroyed which happened about 70years after, about the sign of Jesus' coming(You see His coming was not something hidden), and then the END of the world. After His coming, He will reign for at least 1000 years as King, and His saints as kings on this same earth. It is AFTER that reign and coming so much publicized by the prophets that the world will end. The gaps are wide for the three events. But the question and the answer almost treat them like they will all happen at once, except he that reads 'understands'.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Gen 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The saints are taken out of the way, not left behind. The gathering of God's people is UNTO the Lord.




How can anyone say that Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. That is most absurd as the scripture is quite clear on that both in the Old and new testament.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The Bible is FILLED with the promise of His COMING again and coming quickly, and then you virtually come to tell us that He is not coming?
He will come, and He will touch down and set foot on Mount Olives, and the scriptures cannot be broken.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

How can any believer say that Jesus will not reign on earth? What then are we praying Thy Kingdom come for? Please, finally, read Revelation 19 and 20. It is fairly straight. Jesus will come to earth, the beast will be captured, satan will be bound, saints will reign, satan will deceive, the judgement and the end of the world will happen. Amen.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

It is AFTER this end of the world and judgement that a new heaven and earth appear in Revelation 21. Jesus is coming soon, whether we believe in rapture or not, it is not too important. Let us live to glorigy Him, be watchful, prepared and prayerful.

Where did I mention that Jesus won't be coming back? Where did you read that? I said Jesus won't touch ground at His second coming, but rather we'll go and meet Him in the air- or what does your bible tell you? The earlier you realise that there's no pre-second-coming rapture the better you'll understand this.
Take a look at these Bible verses and you will notice that the focus is NOT about the church being taken away before the end, but rather AT the end of the world and the LAST DAY.
John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'
John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'
John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'
From the verses above, Eternal life is given on the LAST DAY. The resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Judgment is given on the LAST DAY.
What more prove do you need.
Stop misleading people into thinking that there's a secret rapture then after 7 years, the second coming, then those who didn't make rapture will have another chance. I tell you, everything will happen at once and there'll be no second chance for sinners. The belief that Jesus returns 7years after the rapture fixes the date of Jesus' second coming which we know no one knows the time and date. Don't separate catching up of saints and second coming. They will happen on the same day and that is the end of this world as we know it. It's after the 1000 years that Jesus will set foot on earth again and that's a thousand years after His second coming.

This is the summary of events:

- Jesus returns at the second coming.
- The wicked are killed by the 'brightness of His coming'.
- The dead saints are resurrected and together with the living saints, meet Jesus in the air.
- The earth is laid waste.
- Satan is bound on earth by circumstances of having no one to tempt.
- The thousand year millennium starts.
- The saints are in heaven for a thousand years with Jesus and take part in judgment.
- The thousand year millennium ends.
- The lost are resurrected and satan gathers them for battle.
- The New Jerusalem descends to earth with Jesus and the saints.
- Satan and the lost go up to the new city to attack it.
- God reigns fire down from heaven and destroys satan and the lost.
- Heaven and earth is renewed and the saints live forever with Jesus.

blessingee:


You can't reason more than your ability.

Thanks...at least I can...what about you??

Chinaimporter:
[s][b][size=13pt]The bible is a fake bullshit that we only accept because it is so ancient and we where brought up beliving it.

Let us stop being afraid of God because thousands of people are atheist,hindus buddist etc and nothing happens to them.

Churches are burnt,bibles are torn, saints are crucified and nothing happens.

If God says he exist and want us to worship him,let him write it in the sky.....why hide from us and ask us to belive u exist and if we dnt,you will punish us in hell while u say that you love us......sounds like something the devil will do not god.

Why give us many religions and ask us to blindly choose the right one and if we couldnt,you will punish us.

Why do you like our praises so much if you are so great and dont need us.....we never asked to be created in the first place.....why do you ask us to thank you for bringing us into this vile and ruthless world.

I will never worship or serve you because ur rule is by fear.....pple dnt love you,they only pretend to out of fear.....love is unconditional and your is....quench hell and let us see how many people will actually serve you.

You drown men for disobeying you.....stalin killed for the same reason.....you asked the isrealites to kill people that worship any other except you,boko haram do the same thing.....jephtah sacrificed his daughter to you, meaning you accept human sacrifice like all other heaten gods.

I promise that if you ever exists and armagadon comes,i will ride with satan and the fallen angels against you and make sure you are sent to the bottomeless pit(pls make it hotter because you will enjoy it soon)

Satan never did anything to man by your own account in the bible.....he said we sld eat the fruit and be wise and it worked.....the worst thing he did was mess with job and you allowed it

But you

You unforgiving beast allowed your son to be killed so that you can forgive us and we still go to hell after that.

You allowed a bear to eat 52 children for insulting elijah.

You drowned you so called beloved ones because they disobeyed you....what would tge devil hav ton in this case?

You orded the murder,rape and enslavement or whole cities.

You allowed your beloved ones the isrealites to be enslaved because they disobeyed you due to your poor managerial skills.....even hitler would not do that.

I can go on and on to prove you are the greatest beast of them all.....even baal is better that you[/size][/b][/s]

cry me a river

[quote author=otr1
Don't confuse yourself man. The kingdom of God as used in the Bible doesn't always refer to the Kingdom of Heaven. That's the point you're ignorant of. The Kingdom of God as used here means the Church. You're not making sense-permit my use of word-saying the gathering of tares out of His Kingdom is not on earth. Pray tell, where? Heaven? Can satan plant tares into the kingdom of heaven? No. He can't even get back to heaven again.
Listen mister. Study your Bible well. The context there shows that ".. the field is the world.." in Matthew 13:38(AMP), yet the verse 41 clearly specifies: "gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all causes of offense [persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who act wickedly" . He could have said: "gather out of the world..... " HIS KINGDOM is not the world. Hope you know that Satan is the god of the world (2cor 4:4). Mister, there is absolutely no reason to be confused. Also, look His Kingdom as used there, note it didn't say the 'Kingdom of Heaven' but "His Kingdom". Whose Kingdom? Jesus' Kingdom: "the sower is the son of Man" - verse 37. That Kingdom is Christiandom. That's the kingdom He came to establish on earth. Get it. Besides, notice the context, the sower sowed first before the enemy came to sow tares AMONG the wheat @ verse 24-25. If the "tares AMONG the wheat" are unbelievers, I ask you; were there not unbelievers even before Jesus died or before Christianity started? In fact Jesus came for the unbelievers (John 3:37). Think about that. But in the context, He said ;" while men slept, His enemy came and sowed tares AMONG the wheat " @ verse 25. That is the tares came after Christianity began... How on earth could that then refer to all the unbelievers in general? Hence, I tell you most assuredly, the verse 31 talks about a separation of the mixed multitude in Christiandom. That's why the AMP makes it clear: "persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin" @ verse 41. That talks about those who appear to be Christians to deceive others into sin. That is the separation it talks about NOT THE RAPTURE OF UNBELIEVERS. No! That's error! Verse 30 says "gather ye together first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them". "to burn them" is futuristic in context. Note He didn't say "and burn them" also He also didn't talk about taking them OUT OF THE FIELD. But a separation of the tares from AMONG the wheats. I hope you get it....

In many of His parables Jesus taught His disciples that the Kingdom of God would coexist in the world with the kingdom of satan for a time. In that parable of the Weeds (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-44) he explains "how the Kingdom can be present in the world without wiping yet not wiping out all opposition. The parable of the Dragnet (Matt. 13:47-50) likewise speaks of a time of coexistence followed by a separation when the Kingdom is fully established at the end of the age.
Please Matt. 13:47-50 to get a grasp of what Jesus likened the Kingdom of God unto.
The parable of the dragnet in Matt 13:47-50, the dragnet stood for the world? Could it? There were other fishes in the sea after all. Think bout that? Those that the net got had to be worked on so as to ".... sever the wicked from AMONG the just" verse 49. It has to do with a separation of the true Christians, the just from the false ones.. Not from all the unbelievers, at least there must still be some bad fishes in the sea. The emphasis is on the fishes in the net.

In the text under review, satan planted weed in God's field. They grew together until they're separated at harvest.
Read Matt. 13:38 where Jesus made it clear that the field is the world. Despute that if you can.
It isn't new that we have agents of satan planted into the church-acclaimed christians who are actually working for satan. And when I say "church", I mean the whole body of Christ on earth and not just a four walled auditorium.
At the last day, the weeds in and outside the church will be uprooted and burned. If you can not come to term that the location of the field (kingdom planted by God) is the world as specifically stated in Matt 13:38, then I'm done with you. The Bible is self-explanatory; don't confuse yourself.
Yes the field is the world! Yet the weeds were not separated from the field. The Bible never said that wheat were cast OUT OF THE FIELD, but from "out of HIS kingdom", "from AMONG the wheats" verse 41. You can't speak for the Bible. Yes! It is self-explanatory.

Your argument has no bearing on the topic.
My friend, the points remains the fact that the bases on which the anti-rapture Christians is false. Very false I must say. Read Mark 13 : 32-35. Verse 32 "that day and that hour knoweth no man..." Verse 35 then says "watch ye therefore : for ye knoweth not when the master of the house cometh... ". If Jesus warned us for anything, it is about His coming. Not the tribulation. The Bible is clear to innuendo the rapture on many occasions. 1Cor 15:51-53, 1Thess 1:16-17Note:" at the sound of the trumpet", "in the clouds".. Stop being influenced by that doctrine.

otr1:

Where did I mention that Jesus won't be coming back? Where did you read that? I said Jesus won't touch ground at His second coming, but rather we'll go and meet Him in the air- or what does your bible tell you? The earlier you realise that there's no pre-second-coming rapture the better you'll understand this.
Take a look at these Bible verses and you will notice that the focus is NOT about the church being taken away before the end, but rather AT the end of the world and the LAST DAY.
John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'
John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'
John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'
From the verses above, Eternal life is given on the LAST DAY. The resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Judgment is given on the LAST DAY.
What more prove do you need.
Stop misleading people into thinking that there's a secret rapture then after 7 years, the second coming, then those who didn't make rapture will have another chance. I tell you, everything will happen at once and there'll be no second chance for sinners. The belief that Jesus returns 7years after the rapture fixes the date of Jesus' second coming which we know no one knows the time and date. Don't separate catching up of saints and second coming. They will happen on the same day and that is the end of this world as we know it. It's after the 1000 years that Jesus will set foot on earth again and that's a thousand years after His second coming.

This is the summary of events:

- Jesus returns at the second coming.
- The wicked are killed by the 'brightness of His coming'.
- The dead saints are resurrected and together with the living saints, meet Jesus in the air.
- The earth is laid waste.
- Satan is bound on earth by circumstances of having no one to tempt.
- The thousand year millennium starts.
- The saints are in heaven for a thousand years with Jesus and take part in judgment.
- The thousand year millennium ends.
- The lost are resurrected and satan gathers them for battle.
- The New Jerusalem descends to earth with Jesus and the saints.
- Satan and the lost go up to the new city to attack it.
- God reigns fire down from heaven and destroys satan and the lost.
- Heaven and earth is renewed and the saints live forever with Jesus.

Stop confusing yourself. The LAST DAY does not mean the end of all days... But, the appointed day. The last day for the world to come to light,just like we are in the last days Acts 2:17, 1Tim 3:1, Heb 1:2... It could mean the last day for the saints... The Last day specifically refers to the day of the rapture. Study it in context. After all, it never talked about the punishment of the sinners on the "last day" except for the judging in John 12:28 which connotes disqualification for the unsaved.. Stop your LAST DAY brouhaha.....

damosky12:

Stop confusing yourself. The LAST DAY does not mean the end of all days... But, the appointed day.

This is your person opinion, without Biblical backing. Even basic knowledge of English tells us that "the end of days" is just a single day, "the last day"

The last day for the world to come to light, just like we are in the last days Acts 2:17, 1Tim 3:1, Heb 1:2... It could mean the last day for the saints... The Last day specifically refers to the day of the rapture.

Sorry, "these last days" which translate as latter days has started more than 16 centuries ago and it's different from the "last day" (notice the "day" is singular, and not "days) in John 6:40, 11:24, and 12:48. It's "last day" and not "last days".
The "last day" specifically refers to the day of rapture But how can we have "the last day" when all you believe that Jesus will rapture you away secretly and the world will continue for another 7 years? That does not support your belief and that's the purpose of this thread...to tell you that in the last day(end of the world), judgement for the wicked, resurrection of dead saints, catching up (what you call rapture) of the living saints and eternal life, is given on the LAST DAY and the verses I quoted earlier support that claim.

Study it in context. After all, it never talked about the punishment of the sinners on the "last day" except for the judging in John 12:28 which connotes disqualification for the unsaved.. Stop your LAST DAY brouhaha.....

No to sweat, Jesus has told us what will happen on the last day, and yes, destruction of the wicked is the first on the agenda( gather ye the tares FIRST).
I'm done on this topic. Peace.

damosky12:

Stop confusing yourself. The LAST DAY does not mean the end of all days... But, the appointed day.

This is your person opinion, without Biblical backing. Even basic knowledge of English tells us that "the end of days" is just a single day, "the last day"

The last day for the world to come to light, just like we are in the last days Acts 2:17, 1Tim 3:1, Heb 1:2... It could mean the last day for the saints... The Last day specifically refers to the day of the rapture.

Sorry, "these last days" which translate as latter days has started more than 16 centuries ago and it's different from the "last day" (notice the "day" is singular, and not "days) in John 6:40, 11:24, and 12:48. It's "last day" and not "last days".
The "last day" specifically refers to the day of rapture But how can we have "the last day" when all you believe that Jesus will rapture you away secretly and the world will continue for another 7 years? That does not support your belief and that's the purpose of this thread...to tell you that in the last day(end of the world), judgement for the wicked, resurrection of dead saints, catching up (what you call rapture) of the living saints and eternal life, is given on the LAST DAY and the verses I quoted earlier support that claim.

Study it in context. After all, it never talked about the punishment of the sinners on the "last day" except for the judging in John 12:28 which connotes disqualification for the unsaved.. Stop your LAST DAY brouhaha.....

No to sweat, Jesus has told us what will happen on the last day, and yes, destruction of the wicked is the first on the agenda( gather ye the tares FIRST).
I'm done on this topic. I've provided enough Biblical backings for my claims and anyone who wants to study it with open mind(not a made up mind) can always go through them, because I have no more attention to give here again. Peace.

otr1:

This is your person opinion, without Biblical backing. Even basic knowledge of English tells us that "the end of days" is just a single day, "the last day"

Sorry, "these last days" which translate as latter days has started more than 16 centuries ago and it's different from the "last day" (notice the "day" is singular, and not "days) in John 6:40, 11:24, and 12:48. It's "last day" and not "last days".
The "last day" specifically refers to the day of rapture But how can we have "the last day" when all you believe that Jesus will rapture you away secretly and the world will continue for another 7 years? That does not support your belief and that's the purpose of this thread...to tell you that in the last day(end of the world), judgement for the wicked, resurrection of dead saints, catching up (what you call rapture) of the living saints and eternal life, is given on the LAST DAY and the verses I quoted earlier support that claim.

No to sweat, Jesus has told us what will happen on the last day, and yes, destruction of the wicked is the first on the agenda( gather ye the tares FIRST).
I'm done on this topic. I've provided enough Biblical backings for my claims and anyone who wants to study it with open mind(not a made up mind) can always go through them, because I have no more attention to give here again. Peace.

I don't think I need to explain much to you again. It's evident you already stuck to this false doctrine.. But, think : Jesus didn't say: "the end of days"... The last day refers figuratively to that day the saints shall be raptured.. Whether or not you believe doesn't change a thing.... Besides, read my previous post quoting you. Hope it helps you. Peace.

God save us...

damosky12:


I don't think I need to explain much to you again. It's evident you already stuck to this false doctrine.. But, think : Jesus didn't say: "the end of days"... The last day refers figuratively to that day the saints shall be raptured.. Whether or not you believe doesn't change a thing.... Besides, read my previous post quoting you. Hope it helps you. Peace.

You're the one who's stuck to what you're programmed to believe, not me. I used to hold that belief too and, in fact, my church still teach it. But this teaching can not stand the Biblical test. I've given you a handful of evidence to support, but you can't give me one. All you're doing is twisting and assuming even in instances where Jesus isn't using parables.
Jesus didn't say the end of days? So what is the meaning of "the harvest is the end of the world" (consummation of ages-amplified translation) He was talking about in Matt. 13:39? Even Jesus didn't talk about your secret rapture and I wonder where you see it in the Bible.
If you say the last day refers to the day of "rapture", then you'll have to accept that the destruction of the wicked, resurrection of dead saints, the catching up of the living saints and eternal life is given on the last day because that's what Jesus said. Everything ends that day, not 7 years after. That's what's called the LAST DAY( John 11:24, 12:48, 6:40) or END OF THE WORLD/CONSUMMATION OF AGES( Matt. 13:39, 13:49). Those were the words from Jesus Himself. In John 12:48 He said those that rejected Him and His words will be judged on the last day(judgement for the wicked). So saying the last day is the day of rapture is agreeing that the wicked will also be judged that same day and that's what I've been telling you. In John 6:40, He said those who believe in Him will have Eternal life( dead and living) on the last day. In Matt. 13:40, He said the tares shall be gathered and burnt at the end of the world(judgement for the wicked. Same as John 12:48). Lets not forget that it's also on this day the wheat(children of the kingdom) will be gathered into the barn(heaven: that's giving them eternal life "at the end of the world". Same as John 6:40). It's on this very day, the wicked shall be separated from the just and cast them into furnace of fire( Matt 13:49). These are Biblical evidence that everything will be settled in a day(the last day/end of the world/consummation of ages). I'll rather believe this than believe in concortions that have no prove.
Shalom!

[quote author=otr1 post=34884320]
You're the one who's stuck to what you're programmed to believe, not me. I used to hold that belief too and, in fact, my church still teach it. But this teaching can not stand the Biblical test. I've given you a handful of evidence to support, but you can't give me one. All you're doing is twisting and assuming even in instances where Jesus isn't using parables.
Jesus didn't say the end of days? So what is the meaning of "the harvest is the end of the world" (consummation of ages-amplified translation) He was talking about in Matt. 13:39? Even Jesus didn't talk about your secret rapture and I wonder where you see it in the Bible.
They still teach it in your church but you decided yourself to be influenced by the false doctrine. It's sad you have decided to remain deluded despite pointing to you your false interpretations... Study the Bible in context not like a modern day news paper. The end of the world doesn't mean days stop happening.. Are you kidding? Have you forgotten we are still going to reign on earth for many years. If by your interpretation of the LAST DAY, then either you or the Bible is wrong. But it's clear you are the wrong one. Jesus didn't talk about rapture? Well, I will show you Mark 13 :32-35, Matt24:41, then a clear one in Matt 25:1-13.. Let God open your eyes...

If you say the last day refers to the day of "rapture", then you'll have to accept that the destruction of the wicked, resurrection of dead saints, the catching up of the living saints and eternal life is given on the last day because that's what Jesus said. Everything ends that day, not 7 years after. That's what's called the LAST DAY( John 11:24, 12:48, 6:40) or END OF THE WORLD/CONSUMMATION OF AGES( Matt. 13:39, 13:49). Those were the words from Jesus Himself. In John 12:48 He said those that rejected Him and His words will be judged on the last day(judgement for the wicked). So saying the last day is the day of rapture is agreeing that the wicked will also be judged that same day and that's what I've been telling you.
Look, that passage in John 12:48 is clear. The Word judging them is not like; they standing before a judgement throne and receiving judgement. NO! That will wait until Rev 20:11-15. The AMP uses the word; "convict" meaning to "find guilty". That is it disqualifies from being with Jesus. For instance, Mark 16:16. HIS Words are the bases for which anyone is qualified or disqualified.. The Bible isn't a book you read like a newspaper.

In John 6:40, He said those who believe in Him will have Eternal life( dead and living) on the last day. In Matt. 13:40, He said the tares shall be gathered and burnt at the end of the world(judgement for the wicked. Same as John 12:48). Lets not forget that it's also on this day the wheat(children of the kingdom) will be gathered into the barn(heaven: that's giving them eternal life "at the end of the world". Same as John 6:40). It's on this very day, the wicked shall be separated from the just and cast them into furnace of fire( Matt 13:49). These are Biblical evidence that everything will be settled in a day(the last day/end of the world/consummation of ages). I'll rather believe this than believe in concortions that have no prove.
You and your matt 13, the "tares among the wheat" not just the tares.. Again, verse 41 didn't say "... and they shall gather out of the world". Did it? After all, the field is the world. Rather, He said; "they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them that do iniquity".. Whose Kingdom? Jesus' Kingdom. The Kingdom He sowed before devil came sowing AMONG the wheats. Will you put words in Jesus' mouth? In fact AMPLIFYING that particular verse in parenthesis "persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin". That talks about His kingdom, not the world for Satan is the god of the world (2cor 4:4), hence sin is rampant but in Jesus ' Kingdom or Christiandom, it takes people to lead others to error. It's very clear. Besides sinners have existed before the wheats were sowed or Christianity started. In fact Jesus came for sinners (John 3:17), but in the parable, the wheats were sowed before the "tares among the wheats". Isn't it? How then could that scripture refer to the sinner in general? Study in context and help you. .. Hence, that scripture talks about the a separation in the church before rapture... The emphasis is on a separation. It has no bearing on your no rapture theory when appraised in its context.

Shalom!
"where THE carcass is, there also shall the Eagles be" is a figurative expression. He didn't say ; "where THEIR carcass is". Where Jesus is, so shall we be on the day of rapture. We shall be caught up to be with HIM. 1 Thess 4:17
Shalom my friend.

damosky12:
They still teach it in your church but you decided yourself to be influenced by the false doctrine. It's sad you have decided to remain deluded despite pointing to you your false interpretations... Study the Bible in context not like a modern day news paper.

That my church teaches pre tribulation rapture even when it's not Biblical, doesn't mean it's right. After all, are we not asked to keep sabbath(saturday) holy? What do we have now? A sunday right? Where is it in the Bible? No where. Acts 17:11 'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.'
You're responsible for your own soul, not your church.

The end of the world doesn't mean days stop happening.. Are you kidding? Have you forgotten we are still going to reign on earth for many years. If by your interpretation of the LAST DAY, then either you or the Bible is wrong. But it's clear you are the wrong one.

Yes, the end of the world/last day means that date as we have it now ceases to count. Are you the one that will countinue the counting of days here when the Bible clearly tells you at the last day, the wicked will be destroyed and the just taken away? Tell me it's a joke? We'll reign on earth again, yes, but that's after the 1000 years when everything must have been made new(Rev. 21:1).
It seems you don't check your Bible and read the verses I quoted. That support my claims and you're the one clutching to straws now with no prove whatsoever, just making things up. It doesn't work that way. I showed you verses where Jesus said He will judge the wicked and give eternal life to the just on the last day, but somehow, you missed it aand turn it to my own interpretation. Open your Bible and read it there.

Jesus didn't talk about rapture? Well, I will show you Mark 13 :32-35, Matt 24:41, then a clear one in Matt 25:1-13.. Let God open your eyes...

Mark 13:32-35? Thank you Jesus!
That chapter is talking about the tribulation that is to take place before "rapture". Now read from 19...now stop at verse 24 Did you see "after the tribulation..."? Jesus was saying tribulation will come before rapture, but you rapture theorists believe that you'll be raptured away secretly before this time. What's the purpose of this thread if not telling you to wake up to reality that we're going to face tribulation and it's only those who come out clean that will receive eternity. Is the gathering of elects not the same as he harvest in Matt 13:30 and Matt 13:49? Tell me the difference between these verses? As for Matt 24:41, that one has been addressed here. It was likened to the days of Noah and we know what happened. It's the wicked that were taken away while Noah and his family remained. That's why Jesus said earlier in Chapter 13 of Matthew that the tares will be gathered and burnt first. No confusion here. In Matt 25:10, didn't Jesus have to lock out the foolish virgins first? He will deal with the tares first(matt 13:30), he will separate the wicked from the just(matt 13:49, he will take wicked and spare the saved(matt 24:41), and he will lock out the foolish from the wise(matt 25:10). Did you read Matt 24 especially verse 10? Jesus is talking about the end. Take note!

Look, that passage in John 12:48 is clear. The Word judging them is not like; they standing before a judgement throne and receiving judgement. NO! That will wait until Rev 20:11-15. The AMP uses the word; "convict" meaning to "find guilty". That is it disqualifies from being with Jesus. For instance, Mark 16:16. HIS Words are the bases for which anyone is qualified or disqualified..

If you're a convict, that means you must have been found guilty by Judge. To convict is to declare someone guilty. And who finds someone guilty? A Judge right? And who's the Judge here? Chai! Do you know the meaning of damned as used in Mark 16:16? Once a person is damned, he can never be found innocent in the judgement of the great white throne. That's why it is said in Rev 20:6 that blessed is he that take part in the first resurrection and on such, the second death has no power. Who are those that will die the second death? Read Rev 20:5(the rest of the dead- the wicked that died before and at Christ's second coming). They're already convicts just awaiting a fair trial, but their names can not be found in the book of life.
You don''t just take a verse in isolation and jump to conclusion. You're the one reading the Bible like poem here now.

You and your matt 13, the "tares among the wheat" not just the tares.. Again, verse 41 didn't say "... and they shall gather out of the world". Did it? After all, the field is the world. Rather, He said; "they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them that do iniquity".. Whose Kingdom? Jesus' Kingdom. The Kingdom He sowed before devil came sowing AMONG the wheats. Will you put words in Jesus' mouth?
In fact AMPLIFYING that particular verse in parenthesis "persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin". That talks about His kingdom, not the world for Satan is the god of the world (2cor 4:4), hence sin is rampant but in Jesus ' Kingdom or Christiandom, it takes people to lead others to error. It's very clear.

And where did satan sow his weeds? Where? If you say Christiandom is Christ kingdom on earth-which I told you the first time you quoted me-don't we have tares in Christiandom? Do you think satan is interested anywhere else but Christ's Kingdom? Has satan stopped drawing people to himself since the the days of Adam and Eve? Didn't we have tares among the wheats of Israelites in the wilderness when some are worshipping image of bull? Sorry' but satan doesn't have a kingdom of his own. He created a kingdom for himself by planting sin into the world(doesn't that make sense to you?)

Besides sinners have existed before the wheats were sowed or Christianity started. In fact Jesus came for sinners (John 3:17), but in the parable, the wheats were sowed before the "tares among the wheats". Isn't it?

Sorry, the wheats are necessarily not Christians. They are God's people who keeps His commandments from all ages. The word 'christians' was first used in Antioch after the ascension of Christ.
Let me explain the parable to you. The field is the world right? Who created it? God. Did God just created the field(world) 2000 years ago? No. Did God create Adam and Eve and place them in the garden? Yes. Who introduced sin(disobedience to God) to Adam and Eve? Satan right? Since then, haven't we been having good and bad people in the world? Yes. The field is the world, humans are the seeds planted in the field, satan came and introduced sin(and man became sinners). Some are good and others are bad. At the end of the world(harvest), the bad will be separated from the good, by the reapers(angels). Now you'll have to take the starting point of the parable from Adam and Eve to make sense. That's how it works.

Hence, that scripture talks about the a separation in the church before rapture... The emphasis is on a separation. It has no bearing on your no rapture theory when appraised in its context.

You see why I'm convinced you didn't read the original post and even my replies to your mentions?
If you say the text is on separation before rapture, please tell me what I've been saying since sunday You only saw the headline and noticed rapture and false on the same sentence and jump to conclusion that I said, there won't be rapture. I didn't say that. The rapture itself is not in the Bible, but it's used to mean "caught up" that Thessalonians verse. I also believe that the just, dead and alive will be transformed and caught up to meet Jesus in the air after the separation of the wicked from the just. You can read it over again. What I called false is "rapture theory". And what does the theory say? It says the saved will be rapture secretly then the world will continue for another 7 years during which there will be great tribulation and then Jesus will come back for those who don't take the mark. This is false. The mark will be enforced before the rapture, there will be the great tribulation before the rapture(mark 13:24) and the separation of the good from the bad will occur before the rapture(tares gathered first). That's the position of the Bible and that's the opinion I'm holding.

"where THE carcass is, there also shall the Eagles be" is a figurative expression. He didn't say ; "where THEIR carcass is". Where Jesus is, so shall we be on the day of rapture. We shall be caught up to be with HIM. 1 Thess 4:17
Shalom my friend.

In the time of NOAH which the end time events was likened to, the wicked ones were taken and the just left( as it is in the days of Noah) that's what happened during the flood. The angels will destroy the wicked first, before the saved join Jesus in the air. The righteous will be save while sinners will be destroyed. The wicked will die first(matt 13:30)

[quote author=otr1 post=34895601]
hat my church teaches pre tribulation rapture even when it's not Biblical, doesn't mean it's right. After all, are we not asked to keep sabbath(saturday) holy? What do we have now? A sunday right? Where is it in the Bible? No where. Acts 17:11 'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.'
You're responsible for your own soul, not your church.
The same law strictly fashioned for the Jews or which? By the way, Keeping the day Holy is not by going to church oh.


Yes, the end of the world/last day means that date as we have it now ceases to count. Are you the one that will countinue the counting of days here when the Bible clearly tells you at the last day, the wicked will be destroyed and the just taken away? Tell me it's a joke? We'll reign on earth again, yes, but that's after the 1000 years when everything must have been made new(Rev. 21:1).
It seems you don't check your Bible and read the verses I quoted. That support my claims and you're the one clutching to straws now with no prove whatsoever, just making things up. It doesn't work that way. I showed you verses where Jesus said He will judge the wicked and give eternal life to the just on the last day, but somehow, you missed it aand turn it to my own interpretation. Open your Bible and read it there.
Relax, Jesus didn't say He will judge anybody. Read from verse 47 of John 12. The words that He has spoken will do the judgement. How? Read verse 50. Those who do not do His commandment lack that life. On that LAST DAY, the day of rapture, the unbeliever is judged or disqualified by that commandment. Now, this is not my opinion but the clear depiction of what the Word says in context.

[b] Mark 13:32-35? Thank you Jesus!
That chapter is talking about the tribulation that is to take place before "rapture". Now read from 19...now stop at verse 24 Did you see "after the tribulation..."? Jesus was saying tribulation will come before rapture, but you rapture theorists believe that you'll be raptured away secretly before this time. What's the purpose of this thread if not telling you to wake up to reality that we're going to face tribulation and it's only those who come out clean that will receive eternity. Is the gathering of elects not the same as he harvest in Matt 13:30 and Matt 13:49? Tell me the difference between these verses? As for Matt 24:41, that one has been addressed here. It was likened to the days of Noah and we know what happened. It's the wicked that were taken away while Noah and his family remained. That's why Jesus said earlier in Chapter 13 of Matthew that the tares will be gathered and burnt first. No confusion here. In Matt 25:10, didn't Jesus have to lock out the foolish virgins first? He will deal with the tares first(matt 13:30), he will separate the wicked from the just(matt 13:49, he will take wicked and spare the saved(matt 24:41), and he will lock out the foolish from the wise(matt 25:10). Did you read Matt 24 especially verse 10? Jesus is talking about the end. Take note! [/b]
So? I see the confusion there. Look at Matthew's more complete account of the same story in chapter 24. Look a verse 27-28. "For as the lightning cometh out of the East,and shineth even unto the West, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.... 28. FOR WHERE EVER THE CARCASE IS, THERE WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER." Now, this is the rapture. Very evidently. Study in context.
Then subsequent verses briefs about the Tribulation and then the second coming in which Jesus returns. That's the second coming. .. As for the elects, they refer to to Jews and others who refuse to submit to the lordship of the Antichrist. Those who withhold the tribulations without submitting to him. Read Isaiah 27:13.

If you're a convict, that means you must have been found guilty by Judge. To convict is to declare someone guilty. And who finds someone guilty? A Judge right? And who's the Judge here? Chai! Do you know the meaning of damned as used in Mark 16:16? Once a person is damned, he can never be found innocent in the judgement of the great white throne. That's why it is said in Rev 20:6 that blessed is he that take part in the first resurrection and on such, the second death has no power. Who are those that will die the second death? Read Rev 20:5(the rest of the dead- the wicked that died before and at Christ's second coming). They're already convicts just awaiting a fair trial, but their names can not be found in the book of life.
You don''t just take a verse in isolation and jump to conclusion. You're the one reading the Bible like poem here now.
Well, Bless GOD. I am never a convict. Yes! The Judge isn't Jesus. The judge is the Words Jesus spoke. The Father's commandment is the criteria for rapture on that day. It's discussed above. Damned means condemned. Compare with John 3:18.



And where did satan sow his weeds? Where? If you say Christiandom is Christ kingdom on earth-which I told you the first time you quoted me-don't we have tares in Christiandom? Do you think satan is interested anywhere else but Christ's Kingdom? Has satan stopped drawing people to himself since the the days of Adam and Eve? Didn't we have tares among the wheats of Israelites in the wilderness when some are worshipping image of bull? Sorry' but satan doesn't have a kingdom of his own. He created a kingdom for himself by planting sin into the world(doesn't that make sense to you?)
Exactly! The tares in Christiandom is what Satan came to sow.. The mixed multitude among the Israelites were no sowed by Satan. They were the half casts from Egypt which were later separated in the later verse. Read Exo 12:38, Neh 13:3. Satan governs the world (2Cor 4:4). You can't say He has no Kingdom of his. He is still entitled to the adamic authority . Luke 4:5-6

Sorry, the wheats are necessarily not Christians. They are God's people who keeps His commandments from all ages. The word 'christians' was first used in Antioch after the ascension of Christ.
Let me explain the parable to you. The field is the world right? Who created it? God. Did God just created the field(world) 2000 years ago? No. Did God create Adam and Eve and place them in the garden? Yes. Who introduced sin(disobedience to God) to Adam and Eve? Satan right? Since then, haven't we been having good and bad people in the world? Yes. The field is the world, humans are the seeds planted in the field, satan came and introduced sin(and man became sinners). Some are good and others are bad. At the end of the world(harvest), the bad will be separated from the good, by the reapers(angels). Now you'll have to take the starting point of the parable from Adam and Eve to make sense. That's how it works.
When I say 'Christian', you should know what I mean. Those who are in Christ as used in 2Cor 5:17,Gal 3:29. You don't need explain the parable, thanks. Jesus did just that. Matt 13:37 says He that soweth the good seed is the SON OF MAN. The Son of Man anywhere in the gospels refer to Jesus in the flesh. If it were God, He could have said; ".... the father". The tares among the wheat are the causes of errors, the deceivers in Christiandom today.. That's what matt 13 emphasise. It's not a basis for your theory.


[b]You see why I'm convinced you didn't read the original post and even my replies to your mentions?
If you say the text is on separation before rapture, please tell me what I've been saying since sunday You only saw the headline and noticed rapture and false on the same sentence and jump to conclusion that I said, there won't be rapture. I didn't say that. The rapture itself is not in the Bible, but it's used to mean "caught up" that Thessalonians verse. I also believe that the just, dead and alive will be transformed and caught up to meet Jesus in the air after the separation of the wicked from the just. You can read it over again. What I called false is "rapture theory". And what does the theory say? It says the saved will be rapture secretly then the world will continue for another 7 years during which there will be great tribulation and then Jesus will come back for those who don't take the mark. This is false. The mark will be enforced before the rapture, there will be the great tribulation before the rapture(mark 13:24) and the separation of the good from the bad will occur before the rapture(tares gathered first). That's the position of the Bible and that's the opinion I'm holding. [/b]
Rather, it is a misunderstanding of its context. Read 1Thess 5:9. The tribulation isn't the portion of the believer. Besides, think. How will the UNKNOWN time as warned the saints to be ready for in Mark 11:35 be subject to your KNOWN prediction?


the time of NOAH which the end time events was likened to, the wicked ones were taken and the just left( as it is in the days of Noah) that's what happened during the flood. The angels will destroy the wicked first, before the saved join Jesus in the air. The righteous will be save while sinners will be destroyed. The wicked will die first(matt 13:30)

Study in context! Read from Matt 24:36 to 39. The emphasis isn't laid on the system by which the world was destroyed in the days of Noah, but to stress the fact that THE DAY OF RAPTURE is unknown. Verse 37-38. They were about other activities unknown of their impending end. After all, you didn't say; the justs will be kept somewhere while the unrighteous are killed. Did you? If it were to be like the days of Noah, then it should be that exact way.
I am not a fan of Bible arguments, especially on the Internet. The length of the errors on your argument as well as the plight of those who don't know much about the topic spurred me to posting on the thread and replying your arguments. Nevertheless, it's evident you have made your own conclusions despite the errors and misunderstanding from your premises. Hence what's the use debating? Just be prepared.
Peace

otr1:
The same law strictly fashioned for the Jews or which? By the way, Keeping the day Holy is not by going to church oh.

Which law is fashioned strictly for the Jews? The whole ten commandment or parts of it? Do you know the ten commandment is the handwritten one by God on tablets of stone, not the one written by Moses? The Law that contains the keeping of sabbath is kept inside the Ark of covenant, while the laws that pertain to food, drinks and festivals are placed just beside the Ark. The ten commandment is forever and is binding on all who is serving the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac. Jesus kept the sabbath, His disciples kept the sabbath and even the gentiles who accepted christianity did keep the sabbath. So it's not only for the jews. It's for all. Not necessarily going to church on saturday, but is saturday not the day we abuse most? It's the day when most people have time to party, do domestic works and all the sort. That's not keeping it holy.

Relax, Jesus didn't say He will judge anybody. Read from verse 47 of John 12. The words that He has spoken will do the judgement. How? Read verse 50. Those who do not do His commandment lack that life. On that LAST DAY, the day of rapture, the unbeliever is judged or disqualified by that commandment. Now, this is not my opinion but the clear depiction of what the Word says in context.

Jesus is the Word Himself! He will be the Judge. As people are being judged in our law courts by our written laws, so everyone going to be judge by the Word of God. Everyone will be judged by what's written in the Book according to their works. By who? Read Rev. 20:11-12. That's Him. The verses in John 12 were talking about His mission on earth, which judgment is not part of it. Read verse 46.

So? I see the confusion there. Look at Matthew's more complete account of the same story in chapter 24. Look a verse 27-28. "For as the lightning cometh out of the East,and shineth even unto the West, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.... 28. FOR WHERE EVER THE CARCASE IS, THERE WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER." Now, this is the rapture. Very evidently. Study in context.
Then subsequent verses briefs about the Tribulation and then the second coming in which Jesus returns. That's the second coming. .. As for the elects, they refer to to Jews and others who refuse to submit to the lordship of the Antichrist. Those who withstood the tribulations without submitting to him. Read Isaiah 27:13.

I disagree. Matthew 24 is talking about a single event-the second coming of Christ. Didn't you see the mention of a certain "tribulation" in verse 21 preceeding verses 27 and 28 you refer to as rapture verses? He is warning people like you who believe in secret rapture in verses preceding that verse 27 that if any man tell you He's in the desert, believe it not. So if you hear it in the news that Jesus has raptured people away, believe it not...then He said in verse 27, 'for as the lightning comes out of the east...so shall the coming of the Son of Man be'
We all know how lighning operates right? That's how His coming will be. Not in secret. Separating rapture from second coming is the biggest scam. Verses 27 and 28 is not the rapture, it only paints the picture of Jesus second coming. The one and only second coming we're expecting. So after saying He won't be coming in secret, He now said, after the TRIBULATION of those days...which days? Days before appearing like lightning from the east of course...(verse 21)
The elects are not only the Jews, the are people of all of nations and tongues(Rev 7:9). They are the people who came out of the tribulation clean(Rev 7:14). They will be before God serving Him day and night and He shall wipe away all their tears(Rev 7:15-17). If the people who are raptured away secretly missed the tribulation, they are not part of this people and Bible didn't make mention of them anywhere.

Exactly! The tares in Christiandom is what Satan came to sow.. The mixed multitude among the Israelites were no sowed by Satan. They were the half casts from Egypt which were later separated in the later verse. Read Exo 12:38, Neh 13:3. Satan governs the world (2Cor 4:4). You can't say He has no Kingdom of his. He is still entitled to the adamic authority . Luke 4:5-6

No! Satan sowed sin which breeds sinners. And sin have been in this world since the days of Adam and Eve and most Israelites were sinners. What you don't understand about this sowing thing is that, everyone is created(sown) to be good until satan sow tares(sin) into heir lives and so, they become tares(sinners). Everyone is created by God until they start doing wicked things. Even satan himself was created by God until he become the chief tare. So don't make it look as if satan has the power to create bad people and place them among God's people. his duty is to turn good people to his side. He sowed tares among the Jews and he's still doing same among christians today

When I say 'Christian', you should know what I mean. Those who are in Christ as used in 2Cor 5:17,Gal 3:29. You don't need explain the parable, thanks. Jesus did just that. Matt 13:37 says He that soweth the good seed is the SON OF MAN. The Son of Man anywhere in the gospels refer to Jesus in the flesh. If it were God, He could have said; ".... the father". The tares among the wheat are the causes of errors, the deceivers in Christiandom today.. That's what matt 13 emphasise. It's not a basis for your theory.

Are sinners not causes of errors in this world since Adam? Did Jesus started existing 2000 years ago? I've just told you the planting started with the creation of man and the harvest is the end of the world. That's the meaning. Those who are doing the will of God are the good seeds. And yes, there are deceivers in christiandom today. In fact, the man of sin will come out of a professed Church of God

Rather, it is a misunderstanding of its context. Read 1Thess 5:9. The tribulation isn't the portion of the believer. Besides, think. How will the UNKNOWN time as warned the saints to be ready for in Mark 11:35 be subject to your KNOWN prediction?

I'll post something about the believers taking part in the tribulation. Read that Rev 7:9. Those were believers who came out of the great tribulation. People of God have always gone through tribulation/persecution all through the ages and this's not about to change in these last days. 'In this world, you'll go through tribulation, but be of good cheers' is the word of Jesus Himself. I never said the coming of Jesus is known. We don't know, but the righteous are anxiously waiting for it. It's a secret, but Jesus Himself told us signs that the time is near. All the signs are there now, but that's not all...many of us may have to die for our faith...for there shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world...but wait, don't be deceived by rumours of Jesus' return for He shall come as lightning from the east...and after the tribulation of those days...there shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven...and He shall send His angels with great sounds of trumpet and they shall gather His elects from the four winds(North, South, East and West)...when you see these signs mentioned in Matt. 24 from verse 4 down, know that the time is near.

Study in context! Read from Matt 24:36 to 39. The emphasis isn't laid on the system by which the world was destroyed in the days of Noah, but to stress the fact that THE DAY OF RAPTURE is unknown. Verse 37-38. They were about other activities unknown of their impending end. After all, you didn't say; the justs will be kept somewhere while the unrighteous are killed. Did you? If it were to be like the days of Noah, then it should be that exact way.

As it is in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the end of days. That is talking about destruction of the wicked. Noah preached the impending doom to come to those people(just as we're doing now), but they believed not, until the flood came and took them away! Who did the flood take away? Noah and his family? No! It's the sinners. Why? Because they're not prepared. Did the flood take Noah who built the ark by surprise? No...until flood came and took them away(Matt 24:39)...and two shall be in the field, one taken, the other left behind(verse 40). What was taken in verse 39? The sinners. Who will be taken in verse 40? It's definitely the sinner. Will God hide His people somewhere? He doesn't have to. We all know how the Israelites were protected from the plagues that ravaged the land of Egypt. Those who refuse to worship the beast and his image by receiving his mark will carry the spiritual seal of God in their foreheads, just as those who worship the beast carry their own on their foreheads and righthands. Leave Jesus Angels to identify those to destroyed. They won't make mistake and anyone who do not carry the mark of the beast will not partake of their wrath

I am not a fan of Bible arguments, especially on the Internet. The length of the errors on your argument as well as the plight of those who don't know much about the topic spurred me to posting on the thread and replying your arguments. Nevertheless, it's evident you have made your own conclusions despite the errors and misunderstanding from your premises. Hence what's the use debating? Just be prepared.
Peace

If you don't misunderstand this topic, you'll realise there's no error there.
God will spare our lives and be living witnesses as events unfold. I believe Matt 24 is clear enough for us to know that pre-tribulation rapture or "rapture now" second coming later is not in the mix. His second coming is once and for all. It's important for you to know, so that you'll be prepared and not be taken by surprise if it turns out that the rapture you were expecting before tribulation never comes.

The sure thing is the certainty of Jesus' warning to the church of HIS coming. Mark 13:39. Prepare for you do not know when He comes..... Don't expect something to happen before HE comes. Prepare and go about preaching the gospel as He instructed us. Mark 13:10, Mark 16:15-16. That's what matters.

damosky12:
The sure thing is the certainty of Jesus' warning to the church of HIS coming. Mark 13:39. Prepare for you do not know when He comes..... Don't expect something to happen before HE comes. Prepare and go about preaching the gospel as He instructed us. Mark 13:10, Mark 16:15-16. That's what matters.

I'm prepared, keeping His commandments. That's all that matters.
Happy weekend.

damosky12:
The sure thing is the certainty of Jesus' warning to the church of HIS coming. Mark 13:39. Prepare for you do not know when He comes..... Don't expect something to happen before HE comes. Prepare and go about preaching the gospel as He instructed us. Mark 13:10, Mark 16:15-16. That's what matters.

True.

He always fulfilled his prophecies a little different from what the people expected at the time. So if you truly believe something has to happen in a certain way, leave a little room for surprises too.

otr1:

You're not getting it and it's too bad. Please understand that VITAL point. The rapture theory teaches a separation BEFORE the end. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is NO separation before the end. That Corinthians verse you shared up there doesn't change anything. I'll talk more about it.
As for the holy angels being the believers, I disagree. Read Matt. 25:31-32. He was talking about Heavenly angels who are coming to separate the sheep from the goats?
Do you see what I'm talking about?
Are you now saying the supposed "sheep" are also the holy angels? C'mon!

It is not TOO BAD that i am not getting it or you not getting it. What will be too bad is missing eternity with God despite understanding Bible doctrine. Like i said earlier, while it is good to understand, no one's understanding is perfect. And there are many people in Bible schools that know a lot about salvation and Spirit baptism but do not have the tangible experience. " The End" is not a day event, it is a period of time. Understanding the scriptures cumulatively help in reckoning that there is an event called the Rapture during that period called the End. Just like when the Old Testament talks about Christ's coming, we do not really have a clear demarcation. It is because we have the privilege and benefit of hindsight that we can easily teach about Jesus's FIRST and SECOND coming. It's not well separated in the OT. In a similar sense, the rapture, great tribulation, millenial reign and the judgement of the world are all INSIDE the period called the LAST DAY. So, its not like the last day is 24hours. For instance, Jesus said that the prince of this world is judged, but we know that event will finally and fully happen in future.
The Corinthian verse i shared INFORMS us that there is a MYSTERY. Also, about angels being believers, here again is what i said you should CONSIDER, i did not assert it. Jesus told us that believers are as angels in heaven. So, when Jesus comes back with His angels or saints, they CAN actually/really BE believers. Matt. 25:31-32
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
This passage says JESUS(the Son of man) will do the separation. It doesn't talk about any heavenly or earthly angels doing any separation, it is the Son of man. This is consistent with other scriptures that affirm that God will judge the world and even with the Revelations 19 and 20 details. It is in the parable that the reapers are said to be doing some sort of separation(Matthew 13). We cannot form doctrine chiefly on parables, especially when there are clearer teachings in the same Bible on the subject. Jesus the creator of heaven and hell did not mince words in saying " when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."

You see what I'm talking about? If rapture and trinity is not in the Bible, why invent it? Is the Bible not supposed to be our sole guide? Please note: Bible simply means "Book", so the collection of scriptures into one is actually a book; Holy Book. The only phrase that looks like rapture in the Bible is "caught up" in Thessalonian. I have no problem with the word rapture, but the concept: That there's a separation BEFORE the end. As for trinity, that's a topic for another day. That concept is no where found in the Bible.

Nobody is inventing anything, i was very clear that the existence and relevance and concepts/meanings don't necessarily have to be seen in your Bible for it to be real. Rapture is synonym for "caught up/catching up", you agreed to that already in your earlier post. Your grouse was that the catching up is not before the tribulation. Just like Bible simply means "Book", so the Rapture simply means "caught up", and " caught up" is in the Bible.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be "caught up" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be "RAPTURED" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The teaching of the rapture is based, among other things, on the promise of God that believers will not be made to pass through the Great Tribulation.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Co 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The last passage quoted is very instructive. The Antichrist or man of sin cannot come fully until the one hindering/restraining/withholding him is taken out of the way. It is the presence of the church and tangible presence of the Holy Spirit since Pentecost that withholds and restrains the decay and manifestation of the son of perdition.

This is not a doctrine, my friend, it's the Bible truth. Those were the words of Jesus in parables, not doctrines of men. And you know what? He ended up explaining the parable, so you don't even have to look for the meaning.

A doctrine is a teaching, a rule or principle that forms the basis of a belief. There are Bible doctrines/teachings, meaning what the Bible teaches or says or stands for about a particular subject. Like for instance, the Bible doctrine/teaching/stand on marriage, on forgiveness of sin, on eternal judgement, on prayer etc. That is different from man's doctrine which may be formed from man's head or prevailing custom. Bible teaching should not be based/founded primarily on parables, especially when there are other passages clearly teaching on the same topic. Parables only supplement the foundations.

Again, this's not a doctrine, it's the Bible fact.
Read this:
Matt. 13:37-40 "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man," replied Jesus. "The field is the whole world. The good seed? That is the sons of the kingdom, while the weeds are the sons of the evil one. The blackguard who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of this world. The reapers are angels"
This's the point Jesus wants you to understand. Stop looking for what's not lost.

It is not a fact, it is a parable.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
The kingdom of God is likened to a dozen things in the same Bible. Each of them cannot be facts together, we learn lessons from each of the parables, they are not to be taken literally. For instance, the wheat is taken out of the field into the barn in the parable. i am certain you do not believe that, do you? Whatever you believe, kindly note that parables can be easily misunderstood even by disciples.

The 1Cor 15:52 can not happen until the tares are separated from the wheat(Matt 13:30); goats from the sheep(parable of talents: Matt 25:32); the casting away of the bad and gathering the good into the vessel(parable of the dragnet Matt 13:48); the foolish virgins locked out from the wise ones(Matt 25:10). Do you see? This's not about one Bible verse. All Jesus parable of the last day talks about separating the bad from the good. It's after then, the dead in the Lord will be quickened and transformed and then the living saved with put on immortality. This will not happen before and there's no where in the Bible that said otherwise. We'll be transformed in a twinkle of an eye( call this rapture if you like), but it's not going to happen before the wheat or being separated from the tares at the end of the world.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ...'And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'
Isn't the above texts addressed to God's people( the troubled). The Lord is coming back for His poeple and to destroy the wicked.

Psalm 50:3-4 ... 'Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.'
Can you see that Psalm? Jesus is coming to devour the wicked and to call His own to heaven from above. It's not a separate event my friend.

You do not need a parable to know that judgement day is coming, all scriptures point to that fact, from Enoch to Psalms that you quoted to the prophets to Revelations. We all know that the wicked will be separated from the righteous(Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God) . That has nothing to do with the RAPTURE which is a MYSTERY. No one is disputing the second coming, so there is no point showing us the second coming and saying " you see you see". We know about the second coming, what we are talking about is a rapture before that " coming". The second coming will not happen in a twinkle of an eye, it is an event that everyone will know and see. The Bible says every eye will see Him, nations will mourn etc. It is not an hurried process. It is the catching up, the disappearance/taking, the meeting the Lord in the air that will be in a moment, a twinkle of the eye.
Like i have earlier explained, the Bible is not necessarily written chronologically, it is revelation or the privilege of hindsight that helps us to separate events. For instance, the OT talks about the coming of the Christ like one event. It is the NT that helps us to see that there is a first and second coming.

Sorry Bros, this world as we know it will be laid to waste at the second coming of Christ and no, the wicked will be dead during this 1000 years.
The truth is, when Christ Jesus returns at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, the dead saints will be resurrected and the saints who are still alive will be "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air. And then we will be taken to heaven to start the 1000 year millennium.
And why do we "meet the Lord in the air"? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be at the END of the 1000 year millennium.

The world will be laid waste after Jesus' 1000year reign on earth not before. Jesus is coming to earth to reign as King of kings. The kings will be the saints, and they will be kings over other human beings that survive the Great Tribulation. Kings have subjects you know, not just titles. The passages in Revelations 19 to 21 are quite straight forward on these. Most of the paradisal passages of the OT prophets are going to be fulfilled in that period.

Verse 27 of Jeremiah 4 says that the whole land is desolate, but God will not make a complete end. This matches with the truth that the earth will be 'made new', and we will inhabit this 'earth made new' after the 1000 years. So God is not going to totally destroy this world. His is going to 'burn up' all things in it (2 Peter 3:10) and then renew it (2 Peter 3:13).
And no, God's people won't spend the 1000 years on earth because, during this time, it will be desolate. Read Revelation 20:2-7 and you'll understand that during this period, the saints are going to reign with Christ as priests of God and Christ(verse 6). And no, the saved of God won't be living side by side with the wicked during this time, because they are either dead before the second coming or dead at the second coming. Revelation 20:5 made us understand that during this 1000 years, the rest of the dead(the lost) live not, so your point that they'll live together falls flat here. The lost will be dead until the expiration of the 1000 years.
When will the 1000 reign begins?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ...'For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.'

Where will the saint be during this time? Jesus has the answer: John 14:1-3 ...'Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you,I will come again, and receive you unto myself;that where I am, there ye may be also.'
We know that we will spend eternity living on the new earth. So for us to be with Jesus in heaven, we would need to be there during the 1000 year millennium, which is why Jesus said "I will come again and receive you unto Myself, that where I AM there ye may be".
Any other cooked up story about this that's not in the scripture is a lie from hell.

The whole land is desolate like every time, that scripture can apply to almost anything. However, i believe it best fits the time of the Great Tribulation just before the SECOND COMING. If you read through Revelations from i think chapters 6 to 19, it paints a grim and desolate picture of the earth and its sufferings. All these are before "The Word of God" comes in Revelations 19.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of THE EARTH, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Earth is obvious enough from the text above. What is referred to as the battle of Gog and Magog is ON EARTH after the 1000years have expired. Here is how things happen, at the rapture saints are taken up and disappear from earth to meet the Lord in the air. They will be with the Lord for about 7years in Heaven(John 14v1-4) and most of Revelations that talk of saints and elders and souls IN HEAVEN. At that same time frame of about 7 years, the antichrist will manifest on earth and the period of Great Tribulation and many awful signs will be going on. Not every one will agree with the antichrist. Some will be killed and die, many careless christians who missed the rapture will become careful, some sinners will repent etc. These are the people Jesus and the saints will meet and reign over when they come to earth and the beast and his colleagues have been captured and defeated.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
All these happen when Jesus comes to earth with His armies/saints. In the same chapter, there was a MARRIAGE supper of the Lamb IN Heaven where the wife was READY and the partakers BLESSED. It is after the events of chapter 19 that satan is bound for 1000years. Jesus is on earth by this time with His armies from chapter 19. It is at this time that christians reign as KINGS on earth for 1000years with Jesus physically present. This is the paradise period when the earth will truly be filled with glory and peace and the lion will lie with the lamb etc. There will be surcivors and repentent/penitent people on earth who did not take the mark of the antichrist or join in battle against God. These will live long and a child will be 100years, and there will be fruitfulness and joy and multiplication as there is no devil at that period etc. You can imagine the population explosion from 1900 to 2015, compare that to when there will be 1000years with no world wars and strange diseases or famines. After 1000years, satan will be released and he will tempt the subjects of the saints. Many of them will fall of temptation as usual of man, they will surround the camp of the saints but God will destroy them. Then there will be what is called the Great White Throne judgement(Revelation 20v10-15). After this judgement, there will be a New Earth with New Heavens(Revelation 21).

Remember the mention of first resurrection in Rev 20:5? It's the resurrection of the dead in the Lord. So if there's a first resurrection, there must be a second resurrection. Are we not also told that the rest of the dead lived not tii after the 1000years in Rev. 20:5?
Notice: the saints are in heaven with Christ; the lost are dead; the earth is desolate; and satan is bound in the bottomless pit( this isn't a literal prison; it's simply the earth. Why? Because the earth is desolate with only satan and no one to tempt).
After the 1000 years, the New Jerusalem will descend from God.
2 Peter 3:13 ...'Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.'
Revelation 21:1-4 ...'And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.'
Please note that the book of Revelation is not chronological.

It's at this point that the second resurrection (the lost live again after 1000years: Rev. 20:5) takes placed. At this point, satan is loosed out of his prison(state of having no one to tempt). He will deceive the resurrected lost again and gather them to attack the city, but fire from God will devour them. They will be destroyed; satan, death, grave, the beast and the lost. The Bible call it "the second death" Rev 20:14.
Support whatever the objection you have with the scripture. If you feel the rapture will happen before second coming, I want to see a prove, not 1corin 15:52 that suggests the catching up of saints at the second coming. To prove that 1cor 15:52 is talking about the second coming of Christ and not only the catching up of saints, just read from verse 23 and see for yourself
So where did you get the idea that the rapture is a mystery while the second coming is known and that they are two separate events? You see the danger of reading verses in isolation?

I tire for una o!

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who are the rest of the dead? The rest of the dead are sinners. The first resurrection is for all saints. they have been changed. Jesus said He is the resurrection and the life. He gives us all glorious bodies as explained in 1Corinthians 15. This happens at the rapture when we are CHANGED in a moment in the twinkle of an eye. The saints who die in the great tribulation are also chaged/given robes as it were. We who are alive at the rapture will not prevent or precede those saints who are already dead before the rapture. So, the dead before the rapture, the alive saints at the rapture, and the dead saints after the rapture are all changed, this is the first resurrection.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

We will ALL be changed, all saints, dead and alive. That is the first resurrection. Interestingly, there is no second resurrection mentioned anywhere. i think though that there will be a second one or second batch as a FIRST infers there is a second. That second will be for the saints not deceived after the 1000years. The blessed folks in the first resurrection are the same Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. That is why they are blessed, they are forever free from satan and his shenanigans. No where does the Bible refer to the earth as the bottomless pit.Revelations 9 refers to the same bottomless pit from where some creatures were released to the EARTH. satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth. Evidently, he wasn't on earth. It is appointed to man ONCE to die, and after this judgement. Sinners don't resurrect for satan to tempt them again, that is a most absurd and unbiblical idea. Like i have said, the coming of the Christ in the OT was actually in two phases but the majority thought it was one event merged together. Even when Jesus was around, that was the idea the disciples and the jews had. It was Jesus that was busy explaining to them that He will die and rise and go then come. The Seconding coming is a phase of events also referred to as the Last day.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
This "last day" or second coming is also the period called the "end of the world". In this PERIOD many things will happen starting with the rapture/resurrection, then the great tribulation, marriage supper, the physical COMING or touchdown, the millenial reign, battle of gog and magog and culminate with the White Throne Judgement.
i really do not hope to continue arguing this with you. You are free to believe what you want as it were. Just make sure you live a holy life that glorifies God at all times, rapture or no rapture.

otr1:

Where did I mention that Jesus won't be coming back? Where did you read that? I said Jesus won't touch ground at His second coming, but rather we'll go and meet Him in the air- or what does your bible tell you? The earlier you realise that there's no pre-second-coming rapture the better you'll understand this.
Take a look at these Bible verses and you will notice that the focus is NOT about the church being taken away before the end, but rather AT the end of the world and the LAST DAY.
John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'
John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'
John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'
From the verses above, Eternal life is given on the LAST DAY. The resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Judgment is given on the LAST DAY.
What more prove do you need.
Stop misleading people into thinking that there's a secret rapture then after 7 years, the second coming, then those who didn't make rapture will have another chance. I tell you, everything will happen at once and there'll be no second chance for sinners. The belief that Jesus returns 7years after the rapture fixes the date of Jesus' second coming which we know no one knows the time and date. Don't separate catching up of saints and second coming. They will happen on the same day and that is the end of this world as we know it. It's after the 1000 years that Jesus will set foot on earth again and that's a thousand years after His second coming.

This is the summary of events:

- Jesus returns at the second coming.
- The wicked are killed by the 'brightness of His coming'.
- The dead saints are resurrected and together with the living saints, meet Jesus in the air.
- The earth is laid waste.
- Satan is bound on earth by circumstances of having no one to tempt.
- The thousand year millennium starts.
- The saints are in heaven for a thousand years with Jesus and take part in judgment.
- The thousand year millennium ends.
- The lost are resurrected and satan gathers them for battle.
- The New Jerusalem descends to earth with Jesus and the saints.
- Satan and the lost go up to the new city to attack it.
- God reigns fire down from heaven and destroys satan and the lost.
- Heaven and earth is renewed and the saints live forever with Jesus.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
This passage is clearly about the Lord's coming or "day" of the Lord, it is very reminiscent of the tribulation period and then Jesus comes/touches down as seen in Revelation 19. Remember that between Revelation6-19, the earth suffers a lot and so do Jerusalem/Israel. But Jesus comes and what follows, the defeat of the beast and his cohorts.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
This is the period of the 1000year reign on earth. God promises Jerusalem peace through prophecy here. The rest of the passage/chapter sings the same tune. This is the second coming and Jesus clearly touches ground and earth. Verse 1 calls it the DAY of the Lord. It's the same period called last day or the end of all things/the world. Again, i have to reiterate that the "last days" are a period, not 24hours. In fact, the last days started from the ascension of Jesus in Acts 1 so the last day is not a 1hour event or 24hour event. The rapture does not make anyone to know any day or hour. We can only guess even like today, that Jesus is coming soon. Actually, it is yourteaching that gives sinners a second chance by telling them that they will resurrect for satan to tempt them again.

Boyolity:
@OP, usually, I don't comment on posts that tries to generate religious tension or label a religious ideaology as false. I'm a liberal person, I've read the Quran and the Bible countless times.

Now to the points you raised, maybe you should explain these

1 Corinthians 15:52
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

These scriptures quoted above are Paul's. Wouldn't u rather believe Jesus's as stated in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?.

OP made a lot of sense, to me, The Bible has served many purpose (kill, heal, restore..........confuse....)

Christians are not concerned about it's origin or compilation. Quite worrying if u bothered to find out..

Just scrolls afterall. "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life". I enjoy the biblical accounts but God has more things to say beyond wat has been documented, besides most are stories, letters, songs...


Rapture or not, if u die today, ur judgement commences. SELAH!

Image123:
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh...
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken...
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations...
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives...

This passage is clearly about the Lord's coming or "day" of the Lord, it is very reminiscent of the tribulation period and then Jesus comes/touches down as seen in Revelation 19. Remember that between Revelation6-19, the earth suffers a lot and so do Jerusalem/Israel. But Jesus comes and what follows, the defeat of the beast and his cohorts.

The New Testament says clearly that WE (Christians) are now the temple of God, the spiritual nation of Israel. The physical temple of Jerusalem AND the city was destroyed in AD70 because the Jews rejected Christ Jesus and were no longer His special people. Therefore, the place of Jerusalem in Israel lost it's significance also.
Jesus said ..."the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father ... But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth."(John 4:23-24)
If you're looking at that passage as having anything to do with the second coming of Christ, then you have to take your eyes off the literal city of Jerusalem or the nation of Israel.
We all know that Babylon, who led the literal nation of Israel into captivity, is no more. But we have a mention of a Babylon the Great in the book of Revelation making war with God's people in the end time. New Testament CLEARLY teaches that, ANYONE who comes to Christ Jesus are the chosen people of God, the spiritual Jews (Romans 2:29), (Romans 9:6-, (Galatians 3:28). Jesus also clearly said Himself ..."Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."(Matthew 21:43) and "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."(Matthew 23:38). So if that passage is anything to go by as regarding the last days, then the above mentioned people are God's people who are keeping His commandments and the faith of Jesus(Rev 14:12), the world over. And the spiritual babylon (the beast) is the one making war with them. As for Jesus setting foot on mount olives to fight the nations as when He fought in the day of battle. You're in for a surprise if you think Jesus will come down and fight. We shall be caught up in the air to meet the Lord when He Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout(1 Thes 4:16-17). This is how the second coming will be. The mention of people escaping through the valley of the splitted mountain is just a way of saying Jesus rescuing His people.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

This is the period of the 1000 year reign on earth. God promises Jerusalem peace through prophecy here. The rest of the passage/chapter sings the same tune. This is the second coming and Jesus clearly touches ground and earth. Verse 1 calls it the DAY of the Lord. It's the same period called last day or the end of all things/the world.

If you read your Bible well, you'll know that at His second coming, the saints will be taken with Him and the rest destroyed and live not until after 1000year(Rev 20:5). Where will the saints be during the 1000 years? Rev 7:14-15 has the answer. The Jerusalem you're talking about is the New Jerusalem(Rev 21) which is after the 1000year reign before the throne of God in Heaven. It's this same city that the resurrected lost souls (after the 1000years) encompassed (Rev 20:9), before God will finally destroy them.

Again, i have to reiterate that the "last days" are a period, not 24hours.

"last DAYS" as used in 2Pet 3:3, 2Tim 3:1, Acts 2:17 etc is different from the "last DAY-this one is singular- in John 12:48, 11:24, John 6:39. John 6:39 was talking resurrection of the saints on the LAST DAY not last days(latter days)

Actually, it is your teaching that gives sinners a second chance by telling them that they will resurrect for satan to tempt them again.

The rest of the dead live not until 1000years(Rev 20:5)
Since we have the first resurrection (of the dead saints), there's definitely going to be a second one (of the lost after 1000years). They're the ones that will be deceived in Rev 20:8. They will be destroyed (Rev 20:9). These people have no second chance because the second death(final judgement-Rev 20-14-15)already has power over them(Rev 20:6)because they would remain dead after the first resurrection.Everyone's fate is determined at The Second coming.Note that the earth will remain uninhabited for the 1000years and satan will have no one to tempt.

otr1:

The New Testament says clearly that WE (Christians) are now the temple of God, the spiritual nation of Israel. The physical temple of Jerusalem AND the city was destroyed in AD70 because the Jews rejected Christ Jesus and were no longer His special people. Therefore, the place of Jerusalem in Israel lost it's significance also.
Jesus said ..."the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father ... But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth."(John 4:23-24)
If you're looking at that passage as having anything to do with the second coming of Christ, then you have to take your eyes off the literal city of Jerusalem or the nation of Israel.
We all know that Babylon, who led the literal nation of Israel into captivity, is no more. But we have a mention of a Babylon the Great in the book of Revelation making war with God's people in the end time. New Testament CLEARLY teaches that, ANYONE who comes to Christ Jesus are the chosen people of God, the spiritual Jews (Romans 2:29), (Romans 9:6-, (Galatians 3:28). Jesus also clearly said Himself ..."Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."(Matthew 21:43) and "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."(Matthew 23:38). So if that passage is anything to go by as regarding the last days, then the above mentioned people are God's people who are keeping His commandments and the faith of Jesus(Rev 14:12), the world over. And the spiritual babylon (the beast) is the one making war with them. As for Jesus setting foot on mount olives to fight the nations as when He fought in the day of battle. You're in for a surprise if you think Jesus will come down and fight. We shall be caught up in the air to meet the Lord when He Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout(1 Thes 4:16-17). This is how the second coming will be. The mention of people escaping through the valley of the splitted mountain is just a way of saying Jesus rescuing His people.

We are the SPIRITUAL nation, not PHYSICAL nation of Israel. The physical nation of Israel exists and the Bible CLEARLY mentions its relevance and significance.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.


Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Laugh all you want, it does not change the Word of God and all the Word of God will be fulfilled in His time, whether you accept, understand or not.

If you read your Bible well, you'll know that at His second coming, the saints will be taken with Him and the rest destroyed and live not until after 1000year(Rev 20:5). Where will the saints be during the 1000 years? Rev 7:14-15 has the answer. The Jerusalem you're talking about is the New Jerusalem(Rev 21) which is after the 1000year reign before the throne of God in Heaven. It's this same city that the resurrected lost souls (after the 1000years) encompassed (Rev 20:9), before God will finally destroy them.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
It is the DEAD that did not live again until the thousand years were finished. The whole world will not die, it is those that rise up against Christ and join hands with the Antichrist that will die and not live till the final judgement, where the dead small and great stand before God. The passage(Revelation 19 and 20) are VERY clear and has already been explained by me in my previous posts yesterday. Jesus will come to earth and reign with His saints/armies.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelations 19 clearly shows that the saints left heaven with Jesus to earth to reign for 1000years.

"last DAYS" as used in 2Pet 3:3, 2Tim 3:1, Acts 2:17 etc is different from the "last DAY-this one is singular- in John 12:48, 11:24, John 6:39. John 6:39 was talking resurrection of the saints on the LAST DAY not last days(latter days)

The last days culminate in the LAST DAY. It is also called the end time or the day of the Lord, or day of judgement. It is not a 24hour day but a period of time.

The rest of the dead live not until 1000years(Rev 20:5)
Since we have the first resurrection (of the dead saints), there's definitely going to be a second one (of the lost after 1000years). They're the ones that will be deceived in Rev 20:8. They will be destroyed (Rev 20:9). These people have no second chance because the second death(final judgement-Rev 20-14-15)already has power over them(Rev 20:6)because they would remain dead after the first resurrection.Everyone's fate is determined at The Second coming.Note that the earth will remain uninhabited for the 1000years and satan will have no one to tempt.

All these are your random idea and opinion. i rest my case. If you have sincere questions, i' ll try to be available, otherwise, good luck on your journey.