dolphinheart:


Bro , I did not jump o, I said ill answer ur questions one by one . I've answered number one and two and my next post will start from number 3.

I have not jumped to question 6 , if you read my post well, you will see that my answers on question 2 is were I stopped on that , that you see me quoting titus does not mean I've jumped. The titus quote is still part of my answer to question 2.
I'm sorry for not posting for a while, but I will continue shortly, starting from question 3 . That you did not say anything on my answers on question 1 and 2 shows me you are in agreement with my reply .

Ayomivic:


i like you style, you are just twisting my words. Ok, pls let limit this discussion to Jesus being God or not so there would not be mix up.

If we have not been in agreement, that mean i have'nt get your point on Isaiah 9.6 because there Jesus was call mighty God. May be you shoud read that post again ,i did not remove any word
I am expecting you to look at the word "God" in that Statement and if you compare it with John 1:14 then you will get the picture i am trying to paint

i have said it that Jesus is word of God and the word of God is God according to John 1 the word of God was made flesh and that was Jesus. God has power to do that .The bible told us that Jesus is God. If by word God created all he created and Jesus is word are you saying Jesus is not the creator? I want you to understand that this issue is hard to understand if we see God as man,if we limit is power to man.

if you are Christian and you said Jesus is not God then you will need to explaine these verses of Bible to us

1 Matthew 1:23
" Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is GOD WITH US.

Explaine why Jesus being call Emmanuel?

2 Isaiah 43:10-11
" you are my witneses, says the Lord, and my servant whom i have choosen: that you may know and believe me and understand that i am he: BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED NEITHER SHALL THEIR BE AFTER ME. I, EVEN I, AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.

Is Jesus our saviour ?If Jesus is saviour does this statement contradicted?

3. John 8:58
Jesus said unto them verily ,verily i said unto you before Abraham was, IAM

Why would Jesus says this? Is it true Jesus was before Abraham? If yes how? If No explain?

4. philipian 2 5-7
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus : who being in form of God,thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in likeness of men

5 1Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the MYSTERY OF GODLINESS. GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH,Justified in the spirit, seeing of angel, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

6 Titus 2:13
Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our GREAT GOD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST

7 Hebrews 1:8 9
But unto son he said, YOUR THRONE, O GOD is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity: therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above the fellows.

8 2 John 1:7
for many deceiver has entered into the word who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiever and an anticrist.

Which one are you, deceiver or antichrist?

9 Revelation 1:8
iam Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is and which was and which was to come the ALMIGHTY.

Who said the above statement and why does he refers to himself as Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending?

Also check Revelation 22:13 if you don't know the speaker above.


After reading all these verses, i ask again is Jesus God or not?

dolphinheart:
@teekrayne , no more questions?

Ayomivic:


i like you style, you are just twisting my words. Ok, pls let limit this discussion to Jesus being God or not so there would not be mix up.

If we have not been in agreement, that mean i have'nt get your point on Isaiah 9.6 because there Jesus was call mighty God. May be you shoud read that post again ,i did not remove any word
I am expecting you to look at the word "God" in that Statement and if you compare it with John 1:14 then you will get the picture i am trying to paint

i have said it that Jesus is word of God and the word of God is God according to John 1 the word of God was made flesh and that was Jesus. God has power to do that .The bible told us that Jesus is God. If by word God created all he created and Jesus is word are you saying Jesus is not the creator? I want you to understand that this issue is hard to understand if we see God as man,if we limit is power to man.

if you are Christian and you said Jesus is not God then you will need to explaine these verses of Bible to us

1 Matthew 1:23
" Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is GOD WITH US.

Explaine why Jesus being call Emmanuel?

2 Isaiah 43:10-11
" you are my witneses, says the Lord, and my servant whom i have choosen: that you may know and believe me and understand that i am he: BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED NEITHER SHALL THEIR BE AFTER ME. I, EVEN I, AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.

Is Jesus our saviour ?If Jesus is saviour does this statement contradicted?

3. John 8:58
Jesus said unto them verily ,verily i said unto you before Abraham was, IAM

Why would Jesus says this? Is it true Jesus was before Abraham? If yes how? If No explain?

4. philipian 2 5-7
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus : who being in form of God,thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in likeness of men

5 1Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the MYSTERY OF GODLINESS. GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH,Justified in the spirit, seeing of angel, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

6 Titus 2:13
Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our GREAT GOD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST

7 Hebrews 1:8 9
But unto son he said, YOUR THRONE, O GOD is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity: therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above the fellows.

8 2 John 1:7
for many deceiver has entered into the word who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiever and an anticrist.

Which one are you, deceiver or antichrist?

9 Revelation 1:8
iam Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is and which was and which was to come the ALMIGHTY.

Who said the above statement and why does he refers to himself as Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending?

Also check Revelation 22:13 if you don't know the speaker above.


After reading all these verses, i ask again is Jesus God or not?

Teekrayne:
........... So sorry jare bro... I have been very busy.... U can ask me any question. For now I have no question

dolphinheart:




(4) this is my answer on question 4

You asked :
(4.) philipian 2 5-7:
Let this mind be in you, which
was also in Christ Jesus : who
being in form of God,thought it
not robbery to be equal with
God: but made himself of no
reputation and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was
made in likeness of men"



Philippians 2:3-8;
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
"Do nothing fromselfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the
interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves,
which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

NET
"who though he existed
in the form of God ,did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,"


NAB
Who, though he was in the
form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied
himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human
likeness; and found human in
appearance,,

NASB
" who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard
equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the
likeness of men. "


Sourced( "He did not think to snatch at [harpagmos, ἁρπαγμὸς ] equality with God"[1] - NEB.

"He did not think that by force
[harpagmos] he should try to
become equal with God" - TEV
(and GNB).))

KJ reads: “Let this mind be in
you, which was also in Christ
Jesus: Who, being in the form
of God, thought it not robbery
to be equal with God.”




Which thought agrees with
the context? Verse 5 counsels Christians to imitate Christ in the matter here being discussed. Could they be urged to consider it “not robbery,” but their right, “to be
equal with God”? Surely not!
However, they can imitate
one who “ did not regard
equality with God a thing to be grasped/siezed," namely, that he should be equal to God.”

Such translations also agrees with Jesus Christ himself, who said: “The Father is greater than I.”— John 14:28.


The Expositor’s Greek
Testament says: “We cannot
find any passage where
[har·paʹzo] or any of its
derivatives [including har·pag·monʹ] has the sense
of ‘holding in possession,’
‘retaining’. It seems invariably
to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch
violently’. Thus it is not
permissible to glide from the
true sense ‘grasp at’ into one
which is totally different, ‘hold
fast.’”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.;
1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.

Think about what Satan told eve .
Some people say jesus has two natures, but the bible said he emptied himself from one and took another . To find himself(note that word ) in the form of man .

Will answer question 5 next

dolphinheart:




(4) this is my answer on question 4

You asked :
(4.) philipian 2 5-7:
Let this mind be in you, which
was also in Christ Jesus : who
being in form of God,thought it
not robbery to be equal with
God: but made himself of no
reputation and took upon him
the form of a servant, and was
made in likeness of men"



Philippians 2:3-8;
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
"Do nothing fromselfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the
interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves,
which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

NET
"who though he existed
in the form of God ,did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,"


NAB
Who, though he was in the
form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied
himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human
likeness; and found human in
appearance,,

NASB
" who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard
equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the
likeness of men. "


Sourced( "He did not think to snatch at [harpagmos, ἁρπαγμὸς ] equality with God"[1] - NEB.

"He did not think that by force
[harpagmos] he should try to
become equal with God" - TEV
(and GNB).))

KJ reads: “Let this mind be in
you, which was also in Christ
Jesus: Who, being in the form
of God, thought it not robbery
to be equal with God.”




Which thought agrees with
the context? Verse 5 counsels Christians to imitate Christ in the matter here being discussed. Could they be urged to consider it “not robbery,” but their right, “to be
equal with God”? Surely not!
However, they can imitate
one who “ did not regard
equality with God a thing to be grasped/siezed," namely, that he should be equal to God.”

Such translations also agrees with Jesus Christ himself, who said: “The Father is greater than I.”— John 14:28.


The Expositor’s Greek
Testament says: “We cannot
find any passage where
[har·paʹzo] or any of its
derivatives [including har·pag·monʹ] has the sense
of ‘holding in possession,’
‘retaining’. It seems invariably
to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch
violently’. Thus it is not
permissible to glide from the
true sense ‘grasp at’ into one
which is totally different, ‘hold
fast.’”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.;
1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.

Think about what Satan told eve .
Some people say jesus has two natures, but the bible said he emptied himself from one and took another . To find himself(note that word ) in the form of man .

Will answer question 5 next

Ayomivic:


i like you style, you are just twisting my words. Ok, pls let limit this discussion to Jesus being God or not so there would not be mix up.

If we have not been in agreement, that mean i have'nt get your point on Isaiah 9.6 because there Jesus was call mighty God. May be you shoud read that post again ,i did not remove any word
I am expecting you to look at the word "God" in that Statement and if you compare it with John 1:14 then you will get the picture i am trying to paint

i have said it that Jesus is word of God and the word of God is God according to John 1 the word of God was made flesh and that was Jesus. God has power to do that .The bible told us that Jesus is God. If by word God created all he created and Jesus is word are you saying Jesus is not the creator? I want you to understand that this issue is hard to understand if we see God as man,if we limit is power to man.

if you are Christian and you said Jesus is not God then you will need to explaine these verses of Bible to us

1 Matthew 1:23
" Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is GOD WITH US.

Explaine why Jesus being call Emmanuel?

2 Isaiah 43:10-11
" you are my witneses, says the Lord, and my servant whom i have choosen: that you may know and believe me and understand that i am he: BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED NEITHER SHALL THEIR BE AFTER ME. I, EVEN I, AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.

Is Jesus our saviour ?If Jesus is saviour does this statement contradicted?

3. John 8:58
Jesus said unto them verily ,verily i said unto you before Abraham was, IAM

Why would Jesus says this? Is it true Jesus was before Abraham? If yes how? If No explain?

4. philipian 2 5-7
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus : who being in form of God,thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in likeness of men

5 1Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the MYSTERY OF GODLINESS. GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH,Justified in the spirit, seeing of angel, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

6 Titus 2:13
Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our GREAT GOD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST

7 Hebrews 1:8 9
But unto son he said, YOUR THRONE, O GOD is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity: therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above the fellows.

8 2 John 1:7
for many deceiver has entered into the word who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiever and an anticrist.

Which one are you, deceiver or antichrist?

9 Revelation 1:8
iam Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is and which was and which was to come the ALMIGHTY.

Who said the above statement and why does he refers to himself as Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending?

Also check Revelation 22:13 if you don't know the speaker above.


After reading all these verses, i ask again is Jesus God or not?

dolphinheart:




This is my answer to question 5

You stated :
5 1Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the MYSTERY OF GODLINESS. GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH,Justified in the spirit, seeing of angel, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.




We dnt need to go deep into this verse(in relation to if "jesus is God" . Pls do a research on if the word "God" is present in the sentence " God was manifested in the flesh " in 1 Tim 3:16 . Pls do so and reply

Answer to question 6 is next

Ayomivic:

i don't think you need to ask me this question because the verse was quoted from Bible. We can all see it that the word "God" is present in the statement or what are you trying to prove?

dolphinheart:


The words where qouted from a bible translation , now is the translation from the original manuscript by these translators u quoted correct ? That's what ill like you to find out, cus a lot of mordern translations(if not all) dnt have the word "God" in that sentence. Pls comfirm so we can move on .

Ayomivic:

for me, i believe in correctness of Bible translation,so for this reason why would i be looking for what is not lost?

dolphinheart:


Maybe you are not getting me

Not all translations are correct.

Since not all translation of that verse mean or say the same thing, it means some translations are wrong and some are right . From other mordern translations I checked , the word "God" does not exist as part of that sentence . If these is true, the "jesus is God "Statement cannot be supported by that verse.

So since the word "god" does not exist in the original mamuscript but added later by copyist and translators, we will remove that verse from the discussiojn and go to the next question

Ayomivic:


write out what was written in the original manuscript you checked for us to see. We can remove the verse without proof. You can't say this and expect me to believe you without evidence to prove.

Write out whatever written in other translation or original manuscrip.

Remember there is curse on anybody that removed or added to the scripture. This allegation is a big crime.Pls provide evidence to prove.

dolphinheart:



I did not say I checked the original manuscript . Evidence points to two different things by translators of that verse, you quoted one, and I said I saw another, as it is you that quoted it, you will have to tell me which is true and why.

I've put where "god" is mentioned in the verse in section A. While the others are in section B

SECTION A

King James Bible
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

King James 2000 Bible
And without doubt great is the
mystery of godliness: God was
manifest in the flesh, justified
in the Spirit, seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into glory.

American King James
Version
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached to the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

Darby Bible Translation
And confessedly the mystery
of piety is great. God has been
manifested in flesh, has been
justified in [the] Spirit, has
appeared to angels, has been
preached among [the] nations,
has been believed on in [the]
world, has been received up in
glory.

Webster's Bible Translation
And without controversy, great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen by
angels, preached to the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.


World English Bible
Without controversy, the
mystery of godliness is great:
God was revealed in the flesh,
justified in the spirit, seen by
angels, preached among the
nations, believed on in the
world, and received up in
glory.

Young's Literal Translation
and, confessedly, great is the
secret of piety -- God was
manifested in flesh, declared
righteous in spirit, seen by
messengers, preached among
nations, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory!



SECTION B
New International Version
Beyond all question, the
mystery from which true
godliness springs is great: He
appeared in the flesh, was
vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was preached
among the nations, was
believed on in the world, was
taken up in glory.

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the
great mystery of our faith:
Christ was revealed in a
human body and vindicated by
the Spirit. He was seen by
angels and announced to the
nations. He was believed in
throughout the world and
taken to heaven in glory.

English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is
the mystery of godliness: He
was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit, seen
by angels, proclaimed among
the nations, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory.

Berean Study Bible
By common confession, the
mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in the flesh, was
vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was
proclaimed among the nations,
was believed in throughout the
world, was taken up in glory.

Berean Literal Bible
And confessedly, great is the
mystery of godliness: Who
was revealed in the flesh, was
justified in the Spirit, was seen
by angels, was proclaimed
among the nations, was
believed on in the world, was
taken up in glory.

New American Standard
Bible
By common confession, great
is the mystery of godliness: He
who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels, Proclaimed
among the nations, Believed
on in the world, Taken up in
glory.

Holman Christian Standard
Bible
And most certainly, the
mystery of godliness is great:
He was manifested in the
flesh, vindicated in the Spirit,
seen by angels, preached
among the nations, believed
on in the world, taken up in
glory.

International Standard
Version
By common confession, the
secret of our godly worship is
great: In flesh was he revealed
to sight, kept righteous by the
Spirit's might, adored by
angels singing. To nations
was he manifest, believing
souls found peace and rest,
our Lord in heaven reigning!

NET Bible
And we all agree, our religion
contains amazing revelation:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit, seen
by angels, proclaimed among
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory.

Aramaic Bible in Plain
English
And this Mystery of
Righteousness is truly great,
which was revealed in the
flesh and was justified in The
Spirit; He appeared to Angels
and was preached among the
Gentiles; He was trusted in the
world and he ascended into
glory.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The mystery that gives us our
reverence for God is
acknowledged to be great: He
appeared in his human nature,
was approved by the Spirit,
was seen by angels, was
announced throughout the
nations, was believed in the
world, and was taken to
heaven in glory.

New American Standard
1977
And by common confession
great is the mystery of
godliness:
He who was revealed
in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the
Spirit,
Beheld by angels,
Proclaimed among the
nations,
Believed on in the
world,
Taken up in glory.

American Standard Version
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness; He
who was manifested in the
flesh, Justified in the spirit,
Seen of angels, Preached
among the nations, Believed
on in the world, Received up in
glory.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And evidently great is the
mystery of godliness, which
was manifested in the flesh,
was justified in the spirit,
appeared unto angels, hath
been preached unto the
Gentiles, is believed in the
world, is taken up in glory.

English Revised Version
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness; He
who was manifested in the
flesh, justified in the spirit,
seen of angels, preached
among the nations, believed
on in the world, received up in
glory.

Weymouth New Testament
And, beyond controversy,
great is the mystery of our
religion-- that Christ appeared
in human form, and His claims
justified by the Spirit, was
seen by angels and
proclaimed among Gentile
nations, was believed on in the
world, and received up again
into glory.

So which of the two sections do u support and why?

Ayomivic:


ok, i think the main inportant of this verse is to digest what the passage is explaining,to understand what the passage is saying. What you understand of the verse is what we needed.

What i understood of the two sections of tranlators/translations you posted was that. The translators in section A are simple and understandable while section B will leave us with questions.

Section A uses the word "God" while section B uses " He, who, which and Christ where Section A used God

the key words or phrase that are very important in that verse for us to get the message correct are

MYSTERY OF GODLINESS, MANIFEST/APPEAR/REVEAL IN FLESH, RECEIVED INTO GLORY.

The above words or phrase prove the translator the Weymouth New Testament inappropriate

" and beyond controversy great is the MYSTERY of our religion that CRHIST APPEARED IN HUMAN FORM and HIS CLAIMS justified by the spirit was seen by angel and procliamed among gentile nation, was believed on in the world and receieved up AGAIN into glory.

As i said this above verse leave us with question and the questions it leave us with are these

1 what is mystery about the verse?

2. If Christ is human( as we had known) why did the verse said he appeared in human form?

3 what claim does the verse reffering to?

4 " he received up again into glory" Has christ been in glory before?

Section A : that used God ,cleard us from above questions. God who is not human manifest or reveal or appear in human form which is mystery

the others translationr that used He,Which, Who we leave us with question of want to know who is who, he and which in their translation

SECTION A is cleared, and self- explanatory and understandable

what i think should be concern of yours is how you understand the passage .What do you understand of Section A translations and Section B translations? are they saying thesame thing ? To me they are saying the same thing only that some are difficult to understand while some are easy to understand.
You should' nt have said we should jump over it or neglect it and move on.

dolphinheart:


The main importance of these verse is to (1) understand which Translation is correct as both sections are not the same, they said different things.
(2) to understand what the real verse is trying to say.


A translation of a verse being simple and understanding does not mean its real or correct .



Now on issue (1)
* excerpts from web pages

((Although the above verse in
the NIV does not support the
Trinity, there are some Greek
manuscripts that read, “God
appeared in the flesh.” This
reading of some Greek
manuscripts has passed into
some English versions, and
the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The
reading of the earliest and best
manuscripts is not “God” but
rather “he who.” Almost all the
modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent))

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/1-timothy-3-16



((Examination of the Evidence
Modern translations do not read, "God" at 1 Timothy 3:16.
Trinitarians make this particular claim by quoting only from the King James Version reading of this verse. Despite the fact that scholars agree that the KJV reading is a certain corruption,
Trinitarians, even those who
normally do not read the KJV,
continue to cherry-pick this verse from the KJV.
When the Christological
controversies were occurring in the fourth century, we do not see even one solitary person making a reference to the "God was manifested in the flesh" version of this verse as evidence for identifying Jesus as "God." This fact does itself undeniably demonstrate it was unknown to them. If indeed 1 Timothy 3:16 really said "God was manifest in the flesh," we can most definitely be sure this passage would have most been brought forward as
"Exhibit A." Yet, not one soul
mentions it even though this
passage more than any other
would have supported the
teaching that the incarnate Christ was "God." But the facts remain as they are and it was never mentioned once in the myriads of documentation that exist illustrating what was argued in these debates. There is a good reason that no one in the fourth century church ever mentioned the passage. The word "God" did not appear in 1 Timothy 3:16 until much later. It first appeared in manuscripts after Trinitarian dogma was developed and canonized and is an obvious later alteration. The oldest and best manuscripts do not have the word "God" (theos) in 1
Timothy 3:16 which is why
modern Bible translations do not have the word "God" at 1
Timothy 3:16 either...................
......... Now because this verse is known to be a scribal error,
contemporary Trinitarian Greek scholars, who have access to numerous manuscripts, have not been able to perpetuate this error
any longer into English
translations, despite the
passions of some who desire the word "God" to appear in this verse at the expense of truth. Let us look at some of the major translations of this passage and note how Trinitarian Greek scholars themselves acknowledged the scribal error:
"He appeared in a body" (NIV)
"He who was manifested in the
flesh" (ASV)
"He who was revealed in the
flesh" (NASB)
"He was manifested in the
flesh" (RSV)
"Which was manifested in the
flesh" (Douey-Rheims)
"Who was manifested in the
flesh" (NAB)"
Quite plainly, Trinitarian
translation scholars are admitting this version of the verse is not authentic. One then wonders why Trinitarians so often continue to appeal to it.))

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/1Tim3_16.html


(( 1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex
Alexandrinus

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the
photographic facsimile volume
published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh,"
employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation. However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line.
Tregelles writes, "The ink in
which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent
application" (An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854).

Without these marks, the
manuscript originally read ΟC
"He who was manifested in the
flesh." ))


http://www.bible-researcher.com/alexandrinus4.html

((..... The shorter portion of Newton's dissertation was concerned with 1 Timothy 3:16, which reads...............
....... Newton argued that, by a small alteration in the Greek text, the word "God" was substituted to make the phrase read "God was manifest in the flesh." instead of "which was manifested in the flesh.". He attempted to demonstrate
that early Church writers in
referring to the verse knew
nothing of such an alteration.
Summary of both passages
Newton concludes: "If the
ancient churches in debating
and deciding the greatest
mysteries of religion, knew
nothing of these two texts, I
understand not, why we should be so fond of them now the debates are over. With
minor exceptions, it was only in the nineteenth century that
Bible translations appeared
changing these passages.
Modern versions of the Bible
from the Critical Text usually
omit the addition to 1 John 5:7,
but some place it in a footnote,
with a comment indicating that
"it is not found in the earliest
manuscripts".[9] Modern
translations of 1 Timothy 3:16
following the Critical Text now
typically replace "God" with
"He" or "He who", while the
literal Emphasized has "who"............Newton did not publish these findings during his lifetime, likely due to the political climate.
Those who wrote against the
doctrine of the Trinity were
subject to persecution in
England. The Blasphemy Act
1697 made it an offence to
deny one of the persons of the
Trinity to be God, punishable
with loss of office and
employment on the first
occasion, further legal
ramifications on the second
occasion, and imprisonment
without hope for bail on the third occasion. Newton's friend
William Whiston (translator of
the works of Josephus) lost his professorship at Cambridge for this reason in 1711. In 1693 a pamphlet attacking the Trinity was burned by order of the House of Lords, and the next year its printer and author were
prosecuted. In 1697 Thomas
Aikenhead, an eighteen-year-
old student charged with
denying the Trinity, was hanged at Edinburgh, Scotland.
It was published in 1754.))


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture


Now that we know that the word "God " is a scribal error, a later addition and wrong translation , we shall discard that verse as rendered by those In section A and look to what the verse is telling us by the quotes in section B.





“The sacred secret/mystery/secret of . . . godly
devotion/godliness” was revealed in Jesus. ( 1 Timothy 3:16) It had long been a secret, a mystery, as to whether anyone could maintain perfect integrity to God . Jesus revealed the answer. He kept integrity under every test that Satan put upon him.—Matthew 4:1-11; 27:26-50.

The prime example of
godly devotion/godliness is Jesus Christ.
Adam, the perfect man, had not set the perfect example of godly devotion/godliness. None of his children, born imperfect, could do so. Who
would be able to do this? The
coming of God’s Son to earth
and his integrity-keeping course gave the answer, revealing the solution to the sacred secret/mystery . He
is the one to whom Timothy
should look for the perfect
example of conduct manifesting godly devotion.—1Ti 3:15.



Jesus Christ was the one man to manifest godly devotion/godliness perfectly, in every sense, proving that man in the flesh can maintain such devotion. Under severe trials, right down to the end of his earthly course Jesus was “loyal, guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners.” ( Heb 7:26) No flaw
could be found in his integrity, to accuse him before God. He said, before his death: “I have
conquered the world,” also, “The ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me.” ( Joh 16:33; 14:30) No
unrighteousness could be found in him. He could rightly say to his enemies: “Who of you convicts me of sin?” ( Joh 8:46) The solution to “the sacred secret/mystery of
this godly devotion” is so great and means so much to mankind that it is to be proclaimed worldwide. Jesus Christ himself is the basis upon which Christian godly devotion and conduct in the congregation are patterned.

These same Godly devotion/godliness that jesus had is we are to pursue.

"But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue
righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and
gentleness."- 1 Tim 6:11


The above answers the question :
1 what is mystery about the
verse?


Jesus was a spirit creature in heaven , he completly gave up this form(nature) and took a slaves/flesh/human form/nature.

The above answers the question :
2. If Christ is human( as we had
known) why did the verse said
he appeared in human form?


As to the question below, I do not understand ur question or the word "claim"

:"3 what claim does the verse
reffering to?"



You asked: 4 " he received up again into glory" Has christ been in glory before?

Nearly all the verses I read said "taken up in glory", received into glory".
This is true of jesus after his resurrection , God made jesus request (glorify me alongside the glory I had with you ) come to be when upon ascention to heaven , God told jesus " sit at my right side/Hand "( a very glorious position ) . This is what Stephen saw in a vision , jesus was at the right Hand side of the throne, not on the throne or in the throne .


Can we now move on to the next question or you still have something to discuss on these verse.

trustman:
Jesus Christ is both undiminished deity and true humanity In one person. 
"... ... his son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God ... ..." (Romans 1:3-4). 
"For in Him (Christ) all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" (Colossians 2:9). 
"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word" (Hebrews 1:3). 

He did not previously exist as  'a spirit creature in heaven'. His deity had always existed - "In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). 

There is the need to understand issues relating to his humanity and those that have to do with his Deity and clearly delineate them. 

He accepted being called God - "Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28). 

His humanity became even superior to angels - "so he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs" (Hebrews 1:4). 

As God, Jesus Christ:
has all authority (Matt. 28:18), possesses life in Himself (John 5:26), imparts eternal life (John 10:28), forgives sins (Matthew 9:6; Mark 2:7). 

Jesus Christ is God with ALL the attributes of God and He is equally perfect humanity. All divine titles are ascribed to him: "God" (John 1:1); "God over all" (Romans 9:5); "our great God" (Titus 2:13). 

Nothing in Scripture suggests that Jesus Christ is anything less than God - the Supreme Being of the universe. 

Ayomivic:


I have one more question on that verse before we move on.

I knew you would have problem in answering question 2 on that verse , if you answerd question 1 the way you answered it.

The answer you gave for question 2 of that verse was the same answer you gave for John 8;58 and i have held unto it to ask you when you finisher answered all the quetion but now i think we should clear this onece and for all. You said "Jesus exist as a spirit creature before Abraham was born" and now you said "Jesus was a spirit creature in heven, he completely gave up this form(nature) and took a slave/ flesh/ human form/nature"
the are my quetions

1 what do you mean by spirit creature or how can one be in spirit creature?

2 Are there any scripure backing on this? If yes, pls quote the scripure.

dolphinheart:



Good question .

God is a spirit and we can say he exist in spirit form, or say Gods form is spirit. This form is different to humans which are in the form of flesh. So if it is said that something exist in Gods form, they are spirit creatures , not human creatures . Spirit creatures exist in spirit bodies while human creatures exist in physical human flesh .

"God is a Spirit: and they that
worship him must worship him
in spirit and in truth".

God’s Son, jesus ,God’s “only-begotten son,” the Word, was a spirit person like his Father, hence “existing in God’s form” ( Php 2:5-, but later “became flesh,” residing among mankind as the man Jesus. His form was changed completely! from a spirit to flesh.
Completing his earthly course,
he was “put to death in the flesh, but [was] made alive in the spirit.”

"For Christ also suffered once
for sins, the righteous for the
unrighteous, that he might
bring us to God, being put to
death in the flesh but made
alive in the spirit,"- ( 1Pe 3:18)

His Father resurrected him, granted his Son’s request to be glorified alongside the Father with the glory he had had in his prehuman state ( Joh 17:4, 5),

and God made him “a life-giving spirit.”

"Thus it is written, “The first
man Adam became a living
being”; the last Adam became
a life-giving spirit.-1Co 15:45

The Son thus became again invisible to human sight, dwelling “in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”— 1Ti 6:14-16.

To get further proofs that jesus existed before coming to earth read :
John 3:13
John 6:38, 62
John 8:23, 42, 58
Proverbs 8:22- 31

The spirit creatures have spirit bodies while the humans have fleshly physical bodies, man cannot literarily know how spirit creatures look like unless through a vision . Man can only see a spirit creature if that spirit creature materializes a physical body for the man to see, just like the angels did , and just like jesus did after his ressurrection as a spirit creature.

Paul said: "They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies. "- 1cor 15:44

This statement was made in reference to those humans who will enter heaven to be jesus brothers and serve as kings over the rest of mankind on earth during jesus rule.
They will not be ressurrected in human form/ flesh , for that form, a slaves form cannot enter Gods presence.

"What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like i the heavenly man.
50 What I am saying, dear
brothers and sisters, is that
our physical bodies cannot
inherit the Kingdom of God.
These dying bodies cannot
inherit what will last forever. " - 1 cor 15 : 46-50 .

I hope this answers ur questions . I merged the two questions as I saw that the second question was just for me to provide scriptural proof to question 1 .

Can I continue with the next question ?

Demmzy15:

Masha'Allah bro, please ignore them. They're super-dumb, this issue as already been dealt with. They'll keep asking retarded questions, so I'll advice you just ignore them. Salam..

Ayomivic:


I still have one or two questions to ask before we continue.

"You said Jesus exists in spirit form like his father"

base on the above statement , i will like to ask you this question.

1. Did Jesus exists on his own when he was in spirit form?

You called Jesus " God's son, the only begotten son of father, the word " and i know you know the meaning of the word " begotten" this is my question

2. If truly Jesus is only begotten of God, can you pls tell us how God begot Jesus?


3 If human being can only begotten human being and spirit can only begotten spirit as you said Jesus was only begotten son of God his father whom (Jesus) was later returned back to his spirit nature or form. Can we then say Jesus is God the son?

you called Jesus word

4 can you explaine to us how Jesus was word?

dolphinheart:


(1) I will take ur question to mean : did jesus exist as a seperate person from God when he was in spirit form?

The answer is yes .

Did you read verse 30 of the proverbs 8: 22-31 I suggested earlier .


"Then I was constantly at his
side. I was filled with delight
day after day, rejoicing always
in his presence," - prov 8: 30.

Did you read about jesus request when he prayed to God?

And when jesus returned back to heaven as a spirit , he was "at" Gods right side,he was "with" God, not "in" God. Remember where Stephen said he saw jesus.



By virtue of jesus being the sole direct creation of his
Father, the firstborn Son jesus was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by God through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Gods “only- begotten Son” .



(3)note : I never said these words :" If human being can only begotten human being and spirit can only begotten spirit".

No we can't call say "jesus is God the son" . Jesus is not the almighty God, jesus is not the father.
You can call a man's son "son of man" , you wunt call him " man the son " would you .



(4) The name or title “the Word” identifies the function that God’s firstborn Son performed after other intelligent creatures were
formed.
A similar expression is
found at Exodus 4:16, where
Jehovah says to Moses
concerning his brother Aaron:
“And he must speak for you to
the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him.” As spokesman for God’s chief representative on earth, Aaron served as “a mouth” for Moses. Likewise with the Word, or Logos, who became Jesus Christ. Jehovah evidently used his Son to convey information and instructions to others of his
family of spirit sons, even as he used that Son to deliver his
message to humans on earth.
Showing that he was God’s
Word, or Spokesman, Jesus
said to his Jewish listeners:
“What I teach is not mine, but
belongs to him that sent me. If
anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the
teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.” — Joh 7:16, 17;

Read also:
John 12:50; 18:37.
Joh 14:24; 17:14;
Lu 5:1)


"And he was clothed with a
vesture dipped in blood: and
his name is called The Word
of God." - revelation 19:13

Ayomivic:

iam sorry for taken this long
before reply you.
I think we leave this matter as
mystery as trueman had said
because i do not accept your
explannations, if we are to
countinue,the more you say the more question i will have to ask

Proverb 8 you quoted to back your statement that Jesus was existing as entity in heave before taken human flesh and came down to the world is not accepted by me. That Bible chapter is not refering to Jesus, its refering to wisdom and understanding read it from verse one you will understand it. It continue to chapter 9. The other verses you gave does not mean Jesus is existing as an entity when hn was in spirit form

i asked you how Jesus is only begotten son of God, you did not answer the question. I did not say you said it in your previous written but i was asking you how God begotten Jesus if he is/was only begotten of father or that one is title also?

If Jesus being the word is a title that means he would be the mouth of God on earth as you explained what were the other prophets that came befeore him, were they not God's mouth on earth?

Dophinheart i believe you and I cannot reach agreement on this matte.r it better we settle it by agree its mystery.