Scholar8200:
Indeed God has made provisions and it is left to our free will to choose what we do with them. However, once such choices are made whether good or bad, it should be realised that the consequences (which could be very far reaching either positive or negative) are part of whichever alternative we select. Hence we become responsible for the choices and their consequences.


Obviously ever since He gave man dominion over the earth, He has always recognised (or respected?) that order hence even redemption could only be possible through a Man (the Word became Flesh)!

malvisguy212:
If God eradicated everyone who has ever caused pain by selfishness, cheating, lying, gossiping or hurtful
remarks, who would be left? People say, "Suffering is God's fault!", In other words,if we disobey God,it's God's fault?
conveniently forgetting times our own anger, greed and lies hurt others. To wipe out some people who cause suffering, and spare you and me, would make God guilty of gross injustice. We have each added to humanity's shame.

If there is a God of love, the people he loves and longs to place in a pain-free world are the very ones who cause
humanity's suffering.

We are so far from being innocent that we owe our very existence to sin. If, for example, we traced our family tree far
enough,we would probably each find an ancestor born as a result of sin - rape, unlawful incest, a despised pregnancy,
sex before marriage, and the like.
Humanity can boast only ONE PERFECT PERSON . We killed him.

Frequently, we hear or read a comment like this:
"I simply cannot believe in a God who
permits innocent children to starve and suffer, and men like Hitler and Stalin to murder millions of people."

The examples may vary,but the thoughts are always the same. Supposedly,this is "proof" that either God doesn't exist, or that if He does, He either doesn't care about our sufferings, or He is not powerful enough to do
anything about them. But suffering is neither proof of God's non-existence or
existence. Saying, "If God exists, why is
there suffering?" is like saying "If San Francisco exists, why are there earthquakes?" Do earthquakes occur because San Francisco causes them? Or do they occur in spite of San Francisco? Or do they have nothing to do with San
Francisco? Well, we know the answer to that question because we know about San Francisco and we know about
earthquakes.But how much do we really know about God? If we define Him by our own nature, then He cannot be of
any greater character than ourselves.

We may ascribe to Him a greater power than ourselves, but when we suppose that God should or should not act like this or that,then all we are really saying is, "He should act like I would if I
were God."

STARVING:
Now, let's look at starving children. The Bible says that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That
includes everything necessary to feed and provide for its inhabitants. Can anyone deny that the earth is capable of producing more than enough food to feed the entire globe? Well then, if people are starving, whose fault is that? If God made the earth, is He also supposed to plant and distribute our crops for us? Do you remember the tons of food that were shipped to Ethiopia,
but did not reach the starving people who needed it? Whose fault was that?

The reason that over 90% of the masses have barely enough to survive on,is that there is a problem of DISTRIBUTION, not of SUPPLY .A tiny minority have far more than they need, depriving the many.

SUFFERING:
Regarding suffering that is the result of sin, what could be clearer than Romans 1:28–29 and Galatians 6:8–9? The
unbeliever may stomp about with all vigor and complain that it is "bigotry" to associate the rise of AIDS and other diseases to sin; that biblical morality is
narrow-minded, outdated, and totally wrong. But this fact is unalterable: In a society where biblical morality is abandoned, suffering always increases.
Where biblical morality is followed, suffering always declines. Always. (Isa.59:1-4).

As to Hitler, Stalin, street gangs and senseless murders: Would any of these things happen if people followed the teachings of Jesus? Do you realize what
this world would be like if people simply followed God's instructions? There would be no murder, no wars. There would be no welfare, because families
would take care of their own (and families would stay together) and those who did not have families would be
provided for by their fellow-members in Christ. There would be no starvation… I could go on, but the point is: God has
provided us answers; whose fault is it that we don't seek them or heed them when we find them?

I suspect that those who use suffering as a "proof" of God's non-existence would not want to have their free choice taken away from them,but that's exactly what God would have to do if He were to enforce His will on the earth. For if God were to intervene in the matter of
suffering, would He not also intervene in the matter of sin? If He did, He would have to be a dictator.

Then how would we react? We would not want that,and according to the Bible, God doesn't want it either. He wants us to obey Him because we want to, not because we have to. And in order to accomplish this, He must allow two things to happen. First, in order to grant us free choice, He must provide us with graphic examples of the consequences of the wrong choice. Secondly,He must allow injustices and sufferings; otherwise he'd provide sinful mankind with every blessing and benefit without restriction. If everything in this life was fair, good and happy, what need would there be to seek a better life? Why would we seek a Deliverer, if there was nothing to be delivered from? Suffering is not something that ought to turn people away from God, but draw them to Him.

malvisguy212:
Our desperate need is not for clever arguments but for a powerful encounter with the living God (1 Corinthians 4:20).
And we need not more dramatic signs from heaven, but to act on what we already know. The door to spiritual understanding is not human explanation,but supernatural revelation it swings not on mind games but on a willingness to surrender our stubborn will to One who knows better than us (John 7:17; 2 Corinthians 3:14-16; 4:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:4-16;.

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you, promises the Bible (James 4:. Until we respond to the light we already
have, God is unlikely to squander further enlightenment upon us. With
insincere excuses we might even fool ourselves, but not the One who knows everything. We don't decide how much
evidence we need: God does.Neither do we have the final say as to when God will lose patience with us.

malvisguy212:
If God eradicated everyone who has ever caused pain by selfishness, cheating, lying, gossiping or hurtful
remarks, who would be left? People say, "Suffering is God's fault!", In other words,if we disobey God,it's God's fault?
conveniently forgetting times our own anger, greed and lies hurt others. To wipe out some people who cause suffering, and spare you and me, would make God guilty of gross injustice. We have each added to humanity's shame.

If there is a God of love, the people he loves and longs to place in a pain-free world are the very ones who cause
humanity's suffering.

We are so far from being innocent that we owe our very existence to sin. If, for example, we traced our family tree far
enough,we would probably each find an ancestor born as a result of sin - rape, unlawful incest, a despised pregnancy,
sex before marriage, and the like.
Humanity can boast only ONE PERFECT PERSON . We killed him.

Frequently, we hear or read a comment like this:
"I simply cannot believe in a God who
permits innocent children to starve and suffer, and men like Hitler and Stalin to murder millions of people."

The examples may vary,but the thoughts are always the same. Supposedly,this is "proof" that either God doesn't exist, or that if He does, He either doesn't care about our sufferings, or He is not powerful enough to do
anything about them. But suffering is neither proof of God's non-existence or
existence. Saying, "If God exists, why is
there suffering?" is like saying "If San Francisco exists, why are there earthquakes?" Do earthquakes occur because San Francisco causes them? Or do they occur in spite of San Francisco? Or do they have nothing to do with San
Francisco? Well, we know the answer to that question because we know about San Francisco and we know about
earthquakes.But how much do we really know about God? If we define Him by our own nature, then He cannot be of
any greater character than ourselves.

We may ascribe to Him a greater power than ourselves, but when we suppose that God should or should not act like this or that,then all we are really saying is, "He should act like I would if I
were God."

STARVING:
Now, let's look at starving children. The Bible says that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That
includes everything necessary to feed and provide for its inhabitants. Can anyone deny that the earth is capable of producing more than enough food to feed the entire globe? Well then, if people are starving, whose fault is that? If God made the earth, is He also supposed to plant and distribute our crops for us? Do you remember the tons of food that were shipped to Ethiopia,
but did not reach the starving people who needed it? Whose fault was that?

The reason that over 90% of the masses have barely enough to survive on,is that there is a problem of DISTRIBUTION, not of SUPPLY .A tiny minority have far more than they need, depriving the many.

SUFFERING:
Regarding suffering that is the result of sin, what could be clearer than Romans 1:28–29 and Galatians 6:8–9? The
unbeliever may stomp about with all vigor and complain that it is "bigotry" to associate the rise of AIDS and other diseases to sin; that biblical morality is
narrow-minded, outdated, and totally wrong. But this fact is unalterable: In a society where biblical morality is abandoned, suffering always increases.
Where biblical morality is followed, suffering always declines. Always. (Isa.59:1-4).

As to Hitler, Stalin, street gangs and senseless murders: Would any of these things happen if people followed the teachings of Jesus? Do you realize what
this world would be like if people simply followed God's instructions? There would be no murder, no wars. There would be no welfare, because families
would take care of their own (and families would stay together) and those who did not have families would be
provided for by their fellow-members in Christ. There would be no starvation… I could go on, but the point is: God has
provided us answers; whose fault is it that we don't seek them or heed them when we find them?

I suspect that those who use suffering as a "proof" of God's non-existence would not want to have their free choice taken away from them,but that's exactly what God would have to do if He were to enforce His will on the earth. For if God were to intervene in the matter of
suffering, would He not also intervene in the matter of sin? If He did, He would have to be a dictator.

Then how would we react? We would not want that,and according to the Bible, God doesn't want it either. He wants us to obey Him because we want to, not because we have to. And in order to accomplish this, He must allow two things to happen. First, in order to grant us free choice, He must provide us with graphic examples of the consequences of the wrong choice. Secondly,He must allow injustices and sufferings; otherwise he'd provide sinful mankind with every blessing and benefit without restriction. If everything in this life was fair, good and happy, what need would there be to seek a better life? Why would we seek a Deliverer, if there was nothing to be delivered from? Suffering is not something that ought to turn people away from God, but draw them to Him.

ifeness:



Do you mind sharing evidence of the existence of this god? The bible gave no evidence whatsoever of a god,but instead the existence of several character claimed to be gods. To worsen the case,Satan happened to be the alter ego of the presumed bible god.

Mind you,the bible god appeared to be the origin of pain and suffering.

You seem to have short memory though. You claim your god doesn't intervene in humans suffering? What about the biblical Egyptian story? what about the false flood and killing is son for humanity( crap stories). You seem to be another deluded christian.

malvisguy212:
you ask me of something you do not believe in (false flood) and you want me to answer you ?

To see the logic of leaving God out of the equation, consider this:
Frog + Princess's kiss =Handsome prince (fairy tale).
Frog + Millions of years =Handsome prince (theory of evolution).

By definition, no one knows what lies outside their tiny circle of knowledge. Don't be like a blind person trying to
convince himself that because he has never seen, everyone else claiming to see must be mistaken. Try saying this:

"Dear Father, I would like you to show me if you exist. If you are God, you
are so superior to me that I cannot put
demands on you. Anything you choose to show me must be on your terms -your time and your method. I can
understand you not showing yourself to
people who have little desire to know you. I will demonstrate my genuineness by at least reading the material presented here, looking for clues that might help open me to your revelation. And why should you bother revealing yourself to someone who would continue to ignore you anyway? If you show me there is a powerful, caring God who made me and wants the best for me, I will give you your rightful place as God of my life by obeying and trusting your love and wisdom."

ifeness:


I bet you do not know what lies outside your brainwashed knowledge. You have been a yahweh boy all your life and clearly know nothing else.

You wanna know what I know? Example jesus is a lie. You are unknowingly validating stupidity and ignorance. Christianity is nothing but an organized religion.

What is that crap of praying to a dead god about?

malvisguy212:
what the points of asking, if He exist ? You are a full of anger and bitterness.

ifeness:

No I am full of pity for you.

malvisguy212:
Cc. Seun, Ishilove, Obinoscopy, Lalasticlala

tartar9:
in other words,you've equated murderers,rapists,terrorists.... with the rest of decent humans(I don't know if you're among us) including the children.

malvisguy212:
Our desperate need is not for clever arguments but for a powerful encounter with the living God (1 Corinthians 4:20).
And we need not more dramatic signs from heaven, but to act on what we already know. The door to spiritual understanding is not human explanation,but supernatural revelation it swings not on mind games but on a willingness to surrender our stubborn will to One who knows better than us (John 7:17; 2 Corinthians 3:14-16; 4:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:4-16;.

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you, promises the Bible (James 4:. Until we respond to the light we already
have, God is unlikely to squander further enlightenment upon us. With
insincere excuses we might even fool ourselves, but not the One who knows everything. We don't decide how much
evidence we need: God does.Neither do we have the final say as to when God will lose patience with us.

malvisguy212:
Cc. Seun, Ishilove, Obinoscopy, Lalasticlala

freecocoa:
Nonsense.

Like he didn't say he'll punish children for the sins of their father? You and your god can lie sha.

malvisguy212:
Our desperate need is not for clever arguments but for a powerful encounter with the living God (1 Corinthians 4:20).
And we need not more dramatic signs from heaven, but to act on what we already know. The door to spiritual understanding is not human explanation,but supernatural revelation it swings not on mind games but on a willingness to surrender our stubborn will to One who knows better than us (John 7:17; 2 Corinthians 3:14-16; 4:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:4-16;.

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you, promises the Bible (James 4:. Until we respond to the light we already
have, God is unlikely to squander further enlightenment upon us. With
insincere excuses we might even fool ourselves, but not the One who knows everything. We don't decide how much
evidence we need: God does.Neither do we have the final say as to when God will lose patience with us.

malvisguy212:
actually the children God refers to in this verse are the ones who hate God and love evil.

dalaman:


Where does it say so? You are just making things up and.lying. It only says that God punishes the children to the fourth and fifth generation for the sins of their parents. Doesn't mention anything about the kids that hate God and do evil. That part os your own addition because the entire thing doesn't make any sense to you.

malvisguy212:
by really reading it in more depth, it
actually says the opposite. Only the children who "hate God", and sin themselves, are the ones who are punished, only the wicked and ungodly
children who are following the wicked example of their fathers are punished. The very next verse (Exodus 20:6) confirms that God shows mercy on the
children who love Him and keep his Law. This is in harmony with the teaching, "Each man shall die for his own sins" (2 Chronicles 25:4, Ezekiel
18:4,20).

malvisguy212:
by really reading it in more depth, it
actually says the opposite. Only the children who "hate God", and sin themselves, are the ones who are punished, only the wicked and ungodly
children who are following the wicked example of their fathers are punished. The very next verse (Exodus 20:6) confirms that God shows mercy on the
children who love Him and keep his Law. This is in harmony with the teaching, "Each man shall die for his own sins" (2 Chronicles 25:4, Ezekiel
18:4,20).

malvisguy212:
Cc. Seun, Obinoscopy, Lalasticlala

malvisguy212:
Our desperate need is not for clever arguments but for a powerful encounter with the living God (1 Corinthians 4:20).
And we need not more dramatic signs from heaven, but to act on what we already know. The door to spiritual understanding is not human explanation,but supernatural revelation it swings not on mind games but on a willingness to surrender our stubborn will to One who knows better than us (John 7:17; 2 Corinthians 3:14-16; 4:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:4-16;.

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you, promises the Bible (James 4:. Until we respond to the light we already
have, God is unlikely to squander further enlightenment upon us. With
insincere excuses we might even fool ourselves, but not the One who knows everything. We don't decide how much
evidence we need: God does.Neither do we have the final say as to when God will lose patience with us.

malvisguy212:
If God eradicated everyone who has ever caused pain by selfishness, cheating, lying, gossiping or hurtful
remarks, who would be left? People say, "Suffering is God's fault!", In other words,if we disobey God,it's God's fault?
conveniently forgetting times our own anger, greed and lies hurt others. To wipe out some people who cause suffering, and spare you and me, would make God guilty of gross injustice. We have each added to humanity's shame.

If there is a God of love, the people he loves and longs to place in a pain-free world are the very ones who cause
humanity's suffering.

We are so far from being innocent that we owe our very existence to sin. If, for example, we traced our family tree far
enough,we would probably each find an ancestor born as a result of sin - rape, unlawful incest, a despised pregnancy,
sex before marriage, and the like.
Humanity can boast only ONE PERFECT PERSON . We killed him.

Frequently, we hear or read a comment like this:
"I simply cannot believe in a God who
permits innocent children to starve and suffer, and men like Hitler and Stalin to murder millions of people."

The examples may vary,but the thoughts are always the same. Supposedly,this is "proof" that either God doesn't exist, or that if He does, He either doesn't care about our sufferings, or He is not powerful enough to do
anything about them. But suffering is neither proof of God's non-existence or
existence. Saying, "If God exists, why is
there suffering?" is like saying "If San Francisco exists, why are there earthquakes?" Do earthquakes occur because San Francisco causes them? Or do they occur in spite of San Francisco? Or do they have nothing to do with San
Francisco? Well, we know the answer to that question because we know about San Francisco and we know about
earthquakes.But how much do we really know about God? If we define Him by our own nature, then He cannot be of
any greater character than ourselves.

We may ascribe to Him a greater power than ourselves, but when we suppose that God should or should not act like this or that,then all we are really saying is, "He should act like I would if I
were God."

STARVING:
Now, let's look at starving children. The Bible says that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That
includes everything necessary to feed and provide for its inhabitants. Can anyone deny that the earth is capable of producing more than enough food to feed the entire globe? Well then, if people are starving, whose fault is that? If God made the earth, is He also supposed to plant and distribute our crops for us? Do you remember the tons of food that were shipped to Ethiopia,
but did not reach the starving people who needed it? Whose fault was that?

The reason that over 90% of the masses have barely enough to survive on,is that there is a problem of DISTRIBUTION, not of SUPPLY .A tiny minority have far more than they need, depriving the many.

SUFFERING:
Regarding suffering that is the result of sin, what could be clearer than Romans 1:28–29 and Galatians 6:8–9? The
unbeliever may stomp about with all vigor and complain that it is "bigotry" to associate the rise of AIDS and other diseases to sin; that biblical morality is
narrow-minded, outdated, and totally wrong. But this fact is unalterable: In a society where biblical morality is abandoned, suffering always increases.
Where biblical morality is followed, suffering always declines. Always. (Isa.59:1-4).

As to Hitler, Stalin, street gangs and senseless murders: Would any of these things happen if people followed the teachings of Jesus? Do you realize what
this world would be like if people simply followed God's instructions? There would be no murder, no wars. There would be no welfare, because families
would take care of their own (and families would stay together) and those who did not have families would be
provided for by their fellow-members in Christ. There would be no starvation… I could go on, but the point is: God has
provided us answers; whose fault is it that we don't seek them or heed them when we find them?

I suspect that those who use suffering as a "proof" of God's non-existence would not want to have their free choice taken away from them,but that's exactly what God would have to do if He were to enforce His will on the earth. For if God were to intervene in the matter of
suffering, would He not also intervene in the matter of sin? If He did, He would have to be a dictator.

Then how would we react? We would not want that,and according to the Bible, God doesn't want it either. He wants us to obey Him because we want to, not because we have to. And in order to accomplish this, He must allow two things to happen. First, in order to grant us free choice, He must provide us with graphic examples of the consequences of the wrong choice. Secondly,He must allow injustices and sufferings; otherwise he'd provide sinful mankind with every blessing and benefit without restriction. If everything in this life was fair, good and happy, what need would there be to seek a better life? Why would we seek a Deliverer, if there was nothing to be delivered from? Suffering is not something that ought to turn people away from God, but draw them to Him.