contrary to the belief of most christians of fake pastors (note: all pastors in Nigeria no matter the class,are fake, money seekers in the face of poverty ) that if you believe and you still commit sin then you are not saved, salvation is simply a change of religion. (that is, when you are converted into Christianity ). Right from that point, you are automatically filled with the holy spirit to have eternal life here on earth and not to be empowered to become successful in life.
success is for everybody who work hard and failure is for the lazy, no matter your religion.
So, don't tell me i went to church my pastor prayed for me that's why i became successful. That is a big lie.
You were successful because you worked hard, that's all.
But when we die, those of us who believe will resurrect and live again here on earth. That is the target of salvation, not to make money.

paxonel:
contrary to the belief of most christians of fake pastors (note: all pastors in Nigeria no matter the class,are fake, money seekers in the face of poverty ) that if you believe and you still commit sin then you are not saved, salvation is simply a change of religion. (that is, when you are converted into Christianity ). Right from that point, you are automatically filled with the holy spirit to have eternal life here on earth and not to be empowered to become successful in life.
success is for everybody who work hard and failure is for the lazy, no matter your religion.
So, don't tell me i went to church my pastor prayed for me that's why i became successful. That is a big lie.
You were successful because you worked hard, that's all.
But when we die, those of us who believe will resurrect and live again here on earth. That is the target of salvation, not to make money.

on point

Heresy.

Hildalicious:
on point

thanks

psucc:
Heresy.

if i were you i will use scriptures to prove that it is heresy immediately. is it because i didn't use scriptures to prove my point?

why always Nigeria and Africa?

flexybobo:
why always Nigeria and Africa?

i don't know, ask pastors, they are the ones responsible for educating africans

paxonel:

i don't know,
ask pastors,
they are the ones responsible for educating africans

But how can people know that you are filled with the holy spirit when there is no signs and wonders?
remember, it is signs and wonders that are attracting people to pastors

flexybobo:

But how can people know that you are filled with the holy spirit when there is no signs and wonders?
remember, it is signs and wonders that are attracting people to pastors

what do you mean by signs and wonders?

paxonel:
what do you mean by signs and wonders?

miracles now, like... healing the sick now

flexybobo:

miracles now, like...
healing the sick now

Do pastors heal the sick this days?
the only thing they do is conducting deliverance and you know, you will hardly know whether the delivered were once inflicted with evil spirit even after the deliverance, because there is no change of behaviour unlike healing where the sick becomes well and everybody will see it
politicians who were corrupt will put on their corrupt money stealing behavior even after deliverance.
so what are we talking?

paxonel:

Do pastors heal the sick this days?
the only thing they do is conducting deliverance and you know, you will hardly know whether the delivered were once inflicted with evil spirit even after the deliverance, because there is no change of behaviour unlike healing where the sick becomes well and everybody will see it
politicians who were corrupt will put on their corrupt money stealing behavior even after deliverance.
so what are we talking?

lol
but that do not deny the fact some of these pastors have gift of miracles

flexybobo:

lol
but that do not deny the fact some of these pastors have gift of miracles

certainly,
no doubt.
But it should also be used for healing, not only for deliverance.
i have seen Olukoya healing anybody before, imagine.
Also, the greatest signs and wonders are not miracles and healing.
The greatest signs and wonders is knowledge and understanding.
Typical African fantacy was to possess spiritual powers,but when British colonial masters invaded Africa with guns africans then discovered that spiritual powers do not exist, africans were conquered. That is the power of knowledge and understanding.
Today, Africans are still running after spiritual powers and signs and wonders to solve their problems in churches, but their universities are rated sub standard.
how will their problems be solved like that?

paxonel:

certainly,
no doubt.
But it should also be used for healing, not only for deliverance.
i have seen Olukoya healing anybody before, imagine.
Also, the greatest signs and wonders are not miracles and healing.
The greatest signs and wonders is knowledge and understanding.
Typical African fantacy was to possess spiritual powers,but when British colonial masters invaded Africa with guns africans then discovered that spiritual powers do not exist, africans were conquered. That is the power of knowledge and understanding.
Today, Africans are still running after spiritual powers and signs and wonders to solve their problems in churches, but their universities are rated sub standard.
how will their problems be solved like that?

no,
you don't compare African traditional powers to God's signs and wonders now.
odeshi nor dey work for gun but Jesus power is greater than every gun

flexybobo:

no,
you don't compare African traditional powers to God's signs and wonders now.
odeshi nor dey work for gun but Jesus power is greater than every gun

how do you explain pastors shot dead by armed rubbers?

paxonel:
how do explain pastors shot dead by armed rubbers?

they are not real pastors, a true man of God will not die like that

flexybobo:

they are not real pastors,
a true man of God will not die like that

lol
that view of yours is not a realistic one. nobody on earth possess any special powers against nature.
God performed signs and wonders at old times simply because men where ignorant at the time. At the time of ignorance God overlooked and perform signs and wonders to help man.But now that knowledge and understanding has started ruling the world through education,God withdraws signs and wonders, this is because knowledge and understanding is far better than signs and wonders, so don't be carried away by pastors miracles.
it is a wicked generation that run after pastors and churches for miracles to their problems, paying tithes and offering in exchange for breakthrough , neglecting their personal understanding of scriptures and love for fellow mankind

[/quote]
OP you missed it big time such assertion lead to mess we are dealing with presently in the church. Salvation is not joining Christianity but being born of the Spirit and made a new creature. This is born again!!! You don't call yourself to be a Christian God draws you. Period.

just4now:


OP you missed it big time such assertion lead to mess we are dealing with presently in the church. Salvation is not joining Christianity but being born of the Spirit and made a new creature. This is born again!!! You don't call yourself to be a Christian God draws you. Period.

what mess are you talking about in church?
see, the moment a Muslim or anybody from any other religion or an atheist join Christianity at that he is said to has started BELIEVING IN CHRIST, at that point he is automatically saved.
what pastors are doing in churches by demanding extra commitment, is not salvation

paxonel:

what mess are you talking about in church?
see, the moment a Muslim or anybody from any other religion or an atheist join Christianity at that he is said to has started BELIEVING IN CHRIST, at that point he is automatically saved.
what pastors are doing in churches by demanding extra commitment, is not salvation

are you excluding the fact that one need to be born again?
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
or are you saying the moment a non christian join Christianity, at that point he is automatically born again?

flexybobo:

are you excluding the fact that one need to be born again?
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
or are you saying the moment a non christian join Christianity, at that point he is automatically born again?

please don't use that term "born again "
it is degrading Christianity and making the body of Christ an object of ridicle before non christians

paxonel:

please don't use that term "born again "
it is degrading Christianity and making the body of Christ an object of ridicle before non christians

But it is in the scripture already, you can't run away from the truth

flexybobo:

But it is in the scripture already, you can't run away from the truth

I have said it,
the john 3:3 you quoted was at the time Jesus was yet to be crucified. that means there was no christian faith on earth as at then when Jesus met Nicodemus ,
the Christian faith we are practicing today is the salvation and it started after Jesus resurrected.
so, where do born again belong to?
remember, without faith (specifically the christian faith, not Islamic or any other faith on earth ) it is impossible to please God.
you must believe in Jesus and not Muhammad, that he is the rewarder of those who deligently seek him

paxonel:

I have said it,
the john 3:3 you quoted was at the time Jesus was yet to be crucified. that means there was no christian faith on earth as at then when Jesus met Nicodemus ,
the Christian faith we are practicing today is the salvation and it started after Jesus resurrected.
so, where do born again belong to?
remember, without faith (specifically the christian faith, not Islamic or any other faith on earth ) it is impossible to please God.
you must believe in Jesus and not Muhammad, that he is the rewarder of those who deligently seek him

you are right,
honestly, i never saw it like that:

if someone becomes a Christian that doesn't mean he can not sin, we are still in our bodies. Salvation is God's gift to every believer in Christ Jesus, when we give gifts to our fellow human, we don't collect them back, how much more our father, who gives us the gift of salvation, He would not take it back, for if he does, (which is impossible )then we are not saved, and Jesus would have to die again, which is impossible.
The fact that a high percentage of the messages we hear from the pulpit today are health-wealth messages, miracles, healing, signs and wonders (in which most are been preached with selfish reasons, out of context of the particular passage) this does not mean that there are no men of God, Pastors, Teachers, Missionaries and Evangelist, Prophets and Apostles that preach the undiluted word of God. God knows who are His, (I wouldn't want to ague this facts) I would advise church members to always go home and make more research about the things been said by the Pastor, Priests, Prophets, Evangelists, Teachers and people who preach to them. This would help to checkout those set of people who lie from God's Word.

flexybobo:

you are right,
honestly, i never saw it like that:

i understand there was need for ancient catholic church to distinguish sinful christians from righteous christians by calling righteous christians born again, seeing that people were primitively sinful in those ancient Catholic times, but that move was not necessary because, if you look at it.
1. there is no amount of pretence to be righteous that has ever made anybody on earth righteous, we all commit sin in one way or the other
2.as much as christians are trying to be good for the world to see, so are guinuine adherents of other religion are good too, infact most of them are even better than christians, so what are you talking, why the competition?
3. love your neighbor as yourself implies love for all mankind, not just love for Christians only

mrpresido:
if someone becomes a Christian that doesn't mean he can not sin, we are still in our bodies. Salvation is God's gift to every believer in Christ Jesus, when we give gifts to our fellow human, we don't collect them back, how much more our father, who gives us the gift of salvation, He would not take it back, for if he does, (which is impossible )then we are not saved, and Jesus would have to die again, which is impossible.
The fact that a high percentage of the messages, we hear from the pulpit today are health-wealth messages, miracles, healing, signs and wonders (in which most are been preached with selfish reasons, out of context of the particular passage) this does not mean that there are no men of God, Pastors, Teachers, Missionaries and Evangelist, Prophets and Apostles that preach the undiluted word of God. God knows who are His, (I wouldn't want to ague this facts) I would advise church members to always go home and make more research about the things been said by the Pastor, Priests, Prophets, Evangelists, Teachers and people who preach to them. This would help to checkout those set of people who lie from God's Word.

brother,
i totally agree with you, it is wisdom going back to search the Scripture after everything.
But so far, i am yet to see one pastor in Nigeria who do not go out of context of the scripture.
for instance, they will read john 3:16 ,whosever believe should not perish But have eternal life, the next thing they will begin to say, just believe in God, you will have miracle car, money. house, children etc.
they will begin to say what people want to hear, neglecting what that Scripture is trying to point out, thereby giving nigerians a characteristic corrupt mindset.
All pastors do this, all of them are guilty

paxonel:

brother,
i totally agree with you, it is wisdom going back to search the Scripture after everything.
But so far, i am yet to see one pastor in Nigeria who do not go out of context of the scripture.
for instance, they will read john 3:16 ,whosever believe should not perish But have eternal life, the next thing they will begin to say, just believe in God, you will have miracle car, money. house, children etc.
they will begin to say what people want to hear, neglecting what that Scripture is trying to point out, thereby giving nigerians a characteristic corrupt mindset.
All pastors do this, all of them are guilty

My brother, the Lord still have those who are His, those who preach from His Heart, the undiluted word of God. These set of people maybe small in number, but they really exist along with those who are fake. I really can't draw out something to prove this fact, but I want you to know that the black nature of a pot, does not mean all semolina cooked from this pot will be black .My analysis is open to critiques but that's what I can possibly draw out to explain what I have said.

Ha ha ha this paxonel guy dey funny me o. So heretic. Pls show me your proof in the scriptures.
Prophetudeme see false prophets of the last days the bible talked about

Hildalicious:

on point

oh dont tell me youre this daft and silly to believe such Thrash

mrpresido:
My brother, the Lord still have those who are His, those who preach from His Heart, the undiluted word of God. These set of people maybe small in number, but they really exist along with those who are fake. I really can't draw out something to prove this fact, but I want you to know that the black nature of a pot, does not mean all semolina cooked from this pot will be black .My analysis is open to critiques but that's what I can possibly draw out to explain what I have said.

is it really true that God miraculously blesses people with money, car, house etc for been consistent in church going as pastors promises? i never see anything like that in the Scripture.
what i know is, everybody who are successful in churches worked for their money

Profbrian:
Ha ha ha this paxonel guy dey funny me o. So heretic. Pls show me your proof in the scriptures.
Prophetudeme see false prophets of the last days the bible talked about

my proof is
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith(that is, from religion to religion, from Judaism to Christianity ): as it is written, The just shall live(exist ) by faith (by Christianity ).
so, we are saved by our faith Christianity