Does anyone know the story of the first 419 scam? If you do please state it here because I would like to compare it to what I read on an American website nearly ten years ago. If what I read on that website is true then Nigerians most be idiotic to feel ashamed of 419 or let anyone beat them over the head with it.

If what I read was true then the inventors of 419 should, although by default, be awarded medals for inventing the first anti-exploitation technique in Africa.

There is a culture in Nigeria, which esteems those who could make money without working. In the 18th century, European traders sat in shells and trading posts at the mouths of the Oil Rivers, Badagry and few other sites and were also well used to the ludicrous amounts demanded by Nigerian traders for Palm Oil, Ivory and Slaves. Serious negotiation was concerned and people like John Holt are on record irritable about the difficulty of dealing with the locals

The somewhat "jack the lad" culture of southern Nigeria joint with the foolishness of foreigners showed to how easy it was to make money from the white mugus and intelligent scammers soon developed the 419 scams, initially by way of fax and then via the internet. Children raised in this culture soon study that scamming is satisfactory – particularly if you are successful.

Surely they are only doing it to feed their families?

Using internet cafes will costs money. Those poor starving Nigerians who could not afford to feed their family also could not afford to use internet cafes.

It is the better educated Nigerians who are actually able to speak some English. While Westerners laugh at the way they crush it (how well could you write in another language?) they will not be able to speak it at all if they were not somewhat better off than many of the rest of their own countrymen.

Surely they are only stealing from white westerners?

Scams do no only target Westerners. They target anyone with money. So the rubbish about scamming to pay-back the west for the slave trade days is nonsense and romantic day dreaming:

Examples:

Thai women, catering assistant in Bangkok - lost about £20,000 of money borrowed from family and employer. When she told the scammer she had no money he told her to go borrow some.

Saudi Arab - $130K
Egyptian - sick wife - lost $10K
Egyptian - $7K
Black American woman - student - lost $2K
Black American woman - single mother - lost about $10K but was saved from losing another $20K by a timely phone call.
Korean guy - Lost $1000+
Mexican woman- reasonably wealthy family I think - lost $120K
Polynesian woman - $5K
Colombian man - $500 only.

Successful 419 fraud scammers can make a lot of money out of it. If they were actually doing this to right past wrongs then the money might be used to assist the poor. But this money obviously doesn’t get distributed to the poor. It goes straight to their pockets. The money that their victims have borrowed to money this business deal and would spend years paying back goes on supporting a way of life that very few others in Nigeria could enjoy.

Many countries are very poor and many countries have come off second best from colonialism but Nigeria had a huge amount of precious natural resources (oil).

There is more than enough to haul it out of the poverty. However dishonesty is a colossal problem, Nigeria is rated as the second most dishonest country in the world (after Bangladesh) and that was the corruption right through the whole of the society, from the top down.

Nigeria would not really be able to flee what some see as the inheritance of colonialism until this difficulty is dealt with. As long as it is bear, or worse encouraged, by the bulk of people then they would continue to struggle as a poor nation, stigmatized by a standing for corruption and scamming.

Surely no one is hurt and it is only money after all?

Numerous victims of 419 scammers have committed suicide or have been murdered. Some of the more organised criminal elements engage themselves in getting a victim to travel to the scammer’s country, typically Nigeria, South Africa or to Amsterdam, with large amounts of cash to ‘confirm the transaction’. The victim is then actually kidnapped, often beaten also tortured and sometimes killed.

This is not a rare event. It had happened numerous times. Recently, a victim 29 year old Greek man, George Makronalli, who had traveled to South Africa as part of a 419 scam. He was then kidnapped and actually killed when his family refused to pay the ransom. A day later, police found George's body in the Durban. Both his legs and arms were badly broken and he had been set alight, probably while he was still alive.

It even resulted in the death of a Nigerian diplomat: here is the article http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2003/02/57760

For those of you that are involved or support 419, I would like to draw your attention to a real Nigerian, one that is here in London with me, one that stands out and should make all the scammers on here feel ashamed. His name is Nuhu Ribadu.

Hope and Light at the nd of the tunnel?

So, don't waste your time supporting criminals in Nigeria. Support the people that take a stand and try to make things better.

As Nuhu Ribadu said, "Unless we address the problem of fraud & corruption,"  "there is no hope, there is no future."

Brave words from a brave man, a very rare Nigerian indeed and one that should make all 419 supporters on this forum hang their heads in shame.

typical wanna-be-ex-nigerian rambling

@Thor

It is pretty obvious u know nuthin about scam and its origins and pioneers, do a research on the country u claim to live in now and u will see dat u don't even have a case against Nigerian scammers.

The problem I have always had with this beloved country of mine is dat it washes its dirty linen in public to gain favors from the western world who r doing to it d same thing u r condemning only in a larger scale.

It is ppl like u dat sell their bros out to gain favor frm western masters, Nigerian scam is only a small fraction of wat goes on in d world of scam but it is d most publicized by the likes of u who don't know where they r coming frm or going.

Ever heard of Madoff or the societe general scam dimwit

@Thor

It is pretty obvious u know nuthin about scam and its origins and pioneers, do a research on the country u claim to live in now and u will see dat u don't even have a case against Nigerian scammers.

The problem I have always had with this beloved country of mine is dat it washes its dirty linen in public to gain favors from the western world who r doing to it d same thing u r condemning only in a larger scale.

It is ppl like u dat sell their bros out to gain favor frm western masters, Nigerian scam is only a small fraction of wat goes on in d world of scam but it is d most publicized by the likes of u who don't know where they r coming frm or going.

Ever heard of Madoff or the societe general scam dimwit

@ Thor and his supporters

for ur ppl to think of the death penalty at all it goes to show ur level of thinking and mindset, u guys have not progressed past neanderthal stage. Ppl like u shld never even contest to rule ur own household cos u will destroy it without even knowing wat u have done.

Like someone stated frm d Good Book earlier ''let he who is without sin cast the first stone''

@Thor

Are you Nigerian?



If you are, you seem to me more concerned about the plight of greedy foreigners than you are about your fellow Nigerians.

Thor wrote:

Thai women, catering assistant in Bangkok - lost about £20,000 of money borrowed from family and employer. When she told the scammer she had no money he told her to go borrow some.

Saudi Arab - $130K
Egyptian - sick wife - lost $10K
Egyptian - $7K
Black American woman - student - lost $2K
Black American woman - single mother - lost about $10K but was saved from losing another $20K by a timely phone call.
Korean guy - Lost $1000+
Mexican woman- reasonably wealthy family I think - lost $120K
Polynesian woman - $5K
Colombian man - $500 only.

Nevertheless, the examples you gave of the suffering foreigner is laughable. The tale of the Thai woman above is an example of this. You mention that the Thai woman, incidentally from a country well noted for killing Nigerians, lost about £20,000 borrowed from family and employer but “conveniently” omitted to regal us with the tale of how she lost that money.   Secondly, you mentioned and I quote, ‘When she told the scammer she had no money he told her to go borrow some’. However if you really knew how “419 scamming” worked you’d know that they don’t force anyone to do anything.



419 works by exploiting victims’ greed or, worst, victims’ propensity to act as an accomplice to defraud.


You next stated some examples you felt some people make in order to justify 419 scamming and proceeded to debunk these excuses. While I felt both your examples and debunk fell short of what should be taken seriously, I nevertheless feel that you should know I am not interested in making excuses for fraudsters. I am more interested in fairness in the representation of this particular fraud.  I feel that, as is often the case, Nigerians are vilified for actions that others do much worst.


My question still remains can you or anyone paste or state here for the world to read, how the first 419 scam worked. I am willing to bet no one will answer the question. The reason no one will do so is that the truth reveals the people of Europe and America for the hypocrites they are.  The blacks who go along with them cussing and humiliating Nigerians about 419 are either ignorant, brainwashed or Militants.

LMAO that all the opinions are by people who have surprisingly just signed up for Nairaland 

It will be a great day for Nigeria when the hangings start 

Time to clean out the weeds and make way for the crops 

Litmus:

My question still remains can you or anyone paste or state here for the world to read, how the first 419 scam worked. I am willing to bet no one will answer the question. The reason no one will do so is that the truth reveals the people of Europe and America for the hypocrites they are.  The blacks who go along with them cussing and humiliating Nigerians about 419 are either ignorant, brainwashed or Militants.

The 419 scam was originated during 1990s as the oil-based economy of Nigeria went downward. Several unemployed university students first used this 419 scam as a way of manipulating business visitors interested in shady deals in the Nigerian oil sector before aiming greedy businessmen in the west, and then later the wider population.

Early alternates were often sent via letter, fax, or throu gh Telex. History Of 419 ScamThe spread of email and very easy access to email-harvesting software made the cost lower of sending scam letters through the internet extremely cheap. While various figures have violently claimed, which the 419 scam employs as many as 250,000 people in the Nigeria, in reality it has regularly been linked only to small organized gangs often working in concert with western cities and in Nigeria. In recent years, the 419 scam has urged imitations in a variety of trouble spots in Africa and in Eastern Europe.

In fact the advance fee fraud (419 scam) is a very old Nigerian scam than that, dating back to 1588 where letters were written stating to be from a prisoner trapped in a Spanish castle. The fictitious prisoner would further promise to share a treasure with a person who will send them money to bribe their guards.


LINKS:

EFCC catch scammers, close down cafe and slap around the fraudsters a little: Good viewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISMgGdaGOJM (YouTube)

Thor:

In the meantime I have written a letter to all Nigerian ministers calling for the death penalty for 419. Lets hope they agree 

Send the 'acknowledged copy of your letter to the ministers'  to this forum. Even though your lack of education could not make you think that a Bill should be sent to the National Assembly.

Like I said before now, you are never objective. But I encourage you to try this time. Just send the copy. at least, the copy is there with you, right? Prove your worth.

You will help to gather evidence against yourself in court if[b] SATAN[/b] your father could persuade you to send a forged paper.



You have scored 100% for  posting your faked  and adulterated pics. Try and score 100% in posting the letter you sent to the ministers, let us be constructive this time.

Until then,  my

anwo247:

Until then,  my

Best news we have heard all week

@Thor

Thor wrote:

The 419 scam was originated during 1990s as the oil-based economy of Nigeria went downward. Several unemployed university students first used this 419 scam as a way of manipulating business visitors interested in shady deals in the Nigerian oil sector before aiming greedy businessmen in the west, and then later the wider population.

Glad you made the effort to find out more about 419 even if you had to visit wikipedia to do so. Wiki   information isn’t always reliable but the one you pasted here is a good working model. If you read between the lines of the article without prejudice, you would see that 419 exploits Westerners who want to exploit Africans.  One of the earliest cases and I read this in a US state department article a long time ago was of a Nigerian scammer who  approached and American tycoon claiming to be  the son of a minister in the last civilian administration. The scammer claimed that his father embezzled a large sum of money from Nigeria and deposited it in a foreign account but that his father was killed in the coupe. He argued that if the American tycoon could assist him financially (advance him fees) to do the things he needed to do, vis-à-vis leave the country, clandestinely, hotel stays in Europe, and such sundry transactions, he would reimburse the Tycoon.

In other words, the American was willing to assist a Nigerian to defraud Nigeria. Many of the earlier 419’s ran along these lines that’s why the wikipedia article you copied made the statements I highlighted. Since those early days, the fraud has gone global, evolved and perhaps some "innocent" people have suffered - although I remain to be convinced that anyone innocent or moderately sensible ever got scammed by advanced fee fraud.   

[color=#990000][/color]

@ Thor

Have u asked urself wat 419 is? Its just a name tag given to d nigerian brand of scam, now ask urself dis? What do the americans call their scam? I bet u dont know,

ppl like u r our problem, hasty decisions and judgements without proper analysis,

@ Thor;I hope you find this interesting, Its written by an American
http://www.falseprofits.com/Americanscam.html

Thor:

The 419 scam was originated during 1990s as the oil-based economy of Nigeria went downward. Several unemployed university students first used this 419 scam as a way of manipulating business visitors interested in shady deals in the Nigerian oil sector before aiming greedy businessmen in the west, and then later the wider population.

Early alternates were often sent via letter, fax, or throu gh Telex. History Of 419 ScamThe spread of email and very easy access to email-harvesting software made the cost lower of sending scam letters through the internet extremely cheap. While various figures have violently claimed, which the 419 scam employs as many as 250,000 people in the Nigeria, in reality it has regularly been linked only to small organized gangs often working in concert with western cities and in Nigeria. In recent years, the 419 scam has urged imitations in a variety of trouble spots in Africa and in Eastern Europe.

In fact the advance fee fraud (419 scam) is a very old Nigerian scam than that, dating back to 1588 where letters were written stating to be from a prisoner trapped in a Spanish castle. The fictitious prisoner would further promise to share a treasure with a person who will send them money to bribe their guards.

Hahaha wikipedia help me!!!

Why does every good debate on this forum end up with insults and character assassination? 

@ poster,  not everyone has to agree with you. You can't keep accusing everyone that disagrees with you of being a criminal.

To be honest I have some criminality in my past, but I've grown up and am trying to move in the right direction. Yes it took some runnings with the law and a couple of car crashes for me to get my act together,  but i did. It wasn't 419, but it was crime nonetheless. Now maybe I deserve to die, but I'm thankful that I'm not dead. I haven't done anything illegal in about 4 years.  I have nothing to show for my  criminal past except a wasted youth, a few close calls with death as a result of recklessness, and the real life experience of the downward spiral that comes from quick dirty money. I try to talk to my younger cousins, friends, etc to avoid making the same mistakes I did. They listen to me, and I'm sure my advice and mentor-ship has deterred a few of them from following my footsteps. 

Now this idea that only Nigerians are fraudsters is so far from the truth. But I guess that isn't the point of this thread.

The fear of harsh punishment does not stop or even reduce unacceptable behavior.  for example, WHen I was a child growing up in Nigeria I got flogged in school from primary 2 till probably about JSS3 for not doing home work,  i never got home and said "hmmmn I should do my home work today so i don`t get flogged tomorrow".  Punishment and reward is not an effective way to teach morality,  then people do things just because they want to be rewarded, and not because the actions in themselves are right. Morality in societies that use this model is usually non-existent,  People will do anything as long as they see that they can get away with it. That is how they have been raised and programmed. (it is good if u get rewarded, and bad only if you get caught)

Krayola:

The fear of harsh punishment does not stop or even reduce unacceptable behavior.  for example, WHen I was a child growing up in Nigeria I got flogged in school from primary 2 till probably about JSS3 for not doing home work,  i never got home and said "hmmmn I should do my home work today so i don`t get flogged tomorrow". 

If you are executed you are not going to be able to scam again tomorrow are you?

I am not saying that crime is only committed by Nigerians and that corruption is not rife in many other nations. This topic is about introducing the death penalty for 419 scammers in Nigeria. Nothing more and nothing less.

I have not yet heard of a good reason or a sound argument why this should not be made law

haha, ok,  so how many people would you like to see killed on a daily basis? Na genocide be dat o!!!

There is already mass genocide in Africa on a daily basis and has been for years. Yesterday Ruanda, today Dafur and who knows where tomorrow.

I am not talking about about executing everybody that is caught scamming immediately. I would give a 30 day amnesty period in which to STOP, then for the first conviction after this time a mandatory five year prison sentence for the first offence, then execution for any repeat offending after the first offence.

I think this is fair. This goes for everybody, ministers, police and army officials alike

haha,  fair enough.  oya,  time for you to come clean,  How much did they scam from u? 

@Krayola

I really have never been scammed with 419, but I have been working with an official organisation that deals with 419 criminals.

When I talk about 419ers, I am not talking about your average idiot that sits wasting his remaining money and time in internet cafes trying to make a crust, they are  so stupid and uneducated that nobody will ever fall for their crazy stories. They spend their few Naira purchasing letter templates and false documents from other guymen that are probably making a decent wage out of supplying them.

I am talking about the organised 419 criminal gangs of Nigerians based in Nigeria, Holland, Spain, UK, Ghana, Benin and Ivory Coast mainly that steal millions.

Allot of people say that only greedy people fall for the 419 stories and they deserve what they get, what they don't care to acknowledge is that many of the scam mails are supposedly from people dying with cancer, charities, for orphans, children's schools, the Red Cross, the lottery etc.

Many old people lose their life savings thinking they are helping someone less better off than themselves. Not because they are greedy, but because they are caring and want to help. Many people in the UK freely give to African charities, are not looking for a quick profit and do things because they want to help.

419 scammers do not care who they steal money from, they will steal from fellow Nigerians just as they would from a Westerner. The excuse book on why it is OK to steal and cheat is extensive. The reasoning that 419 is some kind of revenge against the West is lame to say the least.

Again, in reality most Nigerians wasting away their lives in internet cafes will make nothing. The organised Nigerian maffia make millions, but that does not get shared with their less well off and strugling countrymen.

In the meantime, Nigeria digs a deeper hole for itself. Nobody wants to risk doing business in such a place where so many horror stories come out of. Millions of scam mails come out of Nigeria each week, with every letter Nigerians lose a little more credibility and allot of investment money.

419 can be stopped and I am happy to see that currently 36.1% of people support the death penalty for 419ers. I think it is a good benchmark that at least 36.1% of Nigerian's want a better future and would like to see an end to this cancer eating away at Nigerian society. All is not lost 

But to be honest, I am not surprised about the hostility towards me by the supporters of 419 and more than likely players in the 419 game.

That is a cross I am willing to bear. 

Lets hope that something positve can come from this soon. Nigeria has fantastic potential, all it needs is for the rubbish to be taken care of ASAP

@Thor

Thor stated:

'Allot of people say that only greedy people fall for the 419 stories and they deserve what they get, what they don't care to acknowledge is that many of the scam mails are supposedly from people dying with cancer, charities, for orphans, children's schools, the Red Cross, the lottery etc.'

However, I expected this response because it is the one often used by individuals who have spent a long time building up unfounded hatred against the Nigerian people over this issue of 419 and when confronted by the possibilities that they may have been mistaken, obstinately refuse to accept the evidence to the contrary and, following, seek refuge in sentimentality. I put it to you that no charity, schools, Red Cross or any humanitarian organisation is going to hand money over to 419 fraudsters from Nigeria.

Thor stated: 

"But to be honest, I am not surprised about the hostility towards me by the supporters of 419 and more than likely players in the 419 game".

The statement above is a sort of moral blackmail. In any case, the only thing it really achieves in the end is to belittle you.

Litmus:

However, I expected this response because it is the one often used by individuals who have spent a long time building up unfounded hatred against the Nigerian people over this issue of 419 and when confronted by the possibilities that they may have been mistaken, obstinately refuse to accept the evidence to the contrary and, following, seek refuge in sentimentality. I put it to you that no charity, schools, Red Cross or any humanitarian organisation is going to hand money over to 419 fraudsters from Nigeria.

Well you were wrong to expect it as you have got the whole thing the wrong way around. It is the scammers that pretend they are from hospitals, charities, schools, the red cross and other agencies 

It is the ordinary well wishing member of the public that thinks they are helping a good cause 

Litmus:

The statement above is a sort of moral blackmail. In any case, the only thing it really achieves in the end is to belittle you.

How funny that the only people that are not belittled are the 419ers, such love is shown to these animals 
Just goes to show how sick Nigerian society has become 

see below

Thor stated:

Well you were wrong to expect it as you have got the whole thing the wrong way around. It is the scammers that pretend they are from hospitals, charities, schools, the red cross and other agencies

No I did not misunderstand, in other words, no humanitarian  organisation is going to hand mony to Charity,Schools, Red Cross or any organisation  from Nigeria created by 419.If such has happened, show us your proof.


Remember 419 is Advanced Fees Fraud!


- and even if, in a warped sort of way, you twisted it round to mean that some Nigerian or Nigerian Mafia type organisation wrote abroad asking individuals or Charity to advance them money to help schools, Red Cross etc Nigeria isn’t a renown bowl in hand begging country. That type of country belong in East Africa. So maybe fraudsters in East Africa (tried to) (because I doubt any one could) defraud humanitarian organisations or people with humanitarian hearts in the way you mean so easily.


Thor stated:

How funny that the only people that are not belittled are the 419ers, such love is shown to these animals     Just goes to show how sick Nigerian society has become.     

The above is at best moral blackmail ordinarily just juvenile. If you can’t make your argument just give up don’t resort to insults it won’t work.

@ Litmus

Either you do not want to understand or you are really quiet stupid.

419ers pretend to be those organisations, not scam them. They write scam mails pretending to be charities, hospitals, schools, orphanages etc

These mails are sent to anyone they can get ther email address of

Thor:

@ Litmus

Either you do not want to understand or you are really[b] quiet stupid[/b].

I guess that is better than being loud stupid. lol

It's not that people here like 419, it's that the people here find it easier to dislike you. This doesn't say a lot for your personality or your social skills. If you want things to change you need to work on your presentation. It is lame.

The Future Looks Bright

^ Thor
I have seen that picture before without those words. That shirt is obviously photoshopped
You should stop your crusade because it just isn't going to happen. Very inhumane.

Time to start the clean-up

Time to start the clean up