On nairaland, christains are always going on and on about how Christianity is a religion of love, and how there is nothing in the new testamaent that endorse warefare etal

so -

can a true devout christian - be a soldier, a person whose job is to kill? how can one reconcile that? did  the soldiers of christian faith of world war I, II, iraq etc go against the bible?

as christians are enjoined to be peacemakers etal, should a true christian who is struck strike back?

can a person  who engage in weapons research and still be a christian?

is there anything in the new testament that justifies the crusades, both against Islam and against apostates and heretics?

soldering is an occupation, a job from which a living is earned.

soldering is not jihad. The unnecessary killing of defenceless people because they dont worship an arabian idol called allah.

Matt. 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces

The armed forces of a country are its government-sponsored defense, fighting forces, and organizations. They exist to further the foreign and domestic policies of their governing body, and to defend that body and the nation it represents from external and internal aggressors. In some countries paramilitary forces are included in a nation's armed forces. Armed force is the use of armed forces to achieve political objectives.

As a christian, can you be a soldier, part of an armed force geared at achieving your nations political objectives ?

please answer the question 

you know where to go if you need to spit on Islam 

Yes I can be a soldier, if I love soldering.

But I dont see how u can connect this to the meaningless killings incited by mohammed and allah.
soldering is an occupation, ur jihad is an unprovoked killing, annihilation and destruction of weak, feeble, defenceless and incapacitated persons, because they refuse to bow to the arabian god, allah.

noetic stop trying to derail the thread

so, even though Jesus preached nonviolence, you as a devout Christian, can go out and kill people in order to further your nation's ambitions ? how do you reconcile the two?

noetic2:

soldering is an occupation, a job from which a living is earned.

soldering is not jihad. The unnecessary killing of defenceless people because they dont worship an arabian idol called allah.

should income be put ahead of one's standards?

If a General gave a Christian soldier commands to commit atrocities, should the soldier obey the command or resist based on agape love?

nice thread by the way.

Do u  know the meaning of an occupation? a job?

Its what u are paid to do. And mind u, not all soldiers go to the battle field.

Jesus commanded us all to shun violence, my being a soldier does not in any disregard or disobey this commandment. I am serving a nation, where someone is the "commander in chief". He takes all the decisions about war and peace. I am PAID to carry out his instructions.

but in your own case, all u are doing is to kill, destroy, annihilate, exterminate and nefariously render impotent defenceless men, women and children who refuse to bow to the arabian moon-god allah. is that right?

bawomolo:

should income be put ahead of one's standards?

If a General gave a Christian soldier commands to commit atrocities, should the soldier obey the command or resist based on agape love?

nice thread by the way.

Its just because we are on the wrong side of the world. soldering is also about defending territorial integrity against unnecessary invasion from enemies. In the case of a general, there is something called MUTINY or INSUBORDINATION. which is punishable by death.

what are atrocities? you as a niger-deltan see soldiers invasion of ur homeland as atrocities. A soldier fighting in the Niger-delta believes he is obeying orders to protect the nation against oil-thieves. You cannot go on the moral high-way. When soldiers kill in the service of their country (a war torn situation) I believe the sins are recorded against the sponsoring nation and not the individual. Except for cases where flagrant abuses and atrocities are committed at the discretion of the individual soldier.

As a christian, I can be a soldier if I want to. It does not in any way contradict my faith/beliefs.

Do u  know the meaning of an occupation? a job?

like prostitution? hey it gets the bill paid kini big deal right.

Its what u are paid to do. And mind u, not all soldiers go to the battle field.

would you mind being the guy who designed the bomb that destroyed hiroshima?  I doubt Jesus would have been proud of that.

I am PAID to carry out his instructions.

in other words, you have sold out your values for the almighty dollars.  At least you are being honest.

would you take in a genocide if commanded to do so or would you be a conscientious objector?


Disclaimer - i don't consider being a soldier a bad thing.  

but in your own case, all u are doing is to kill, destroy, annihilate, exterminate and nefariously render impotent defenceless men, women and children who refuse to bow to the arabian moon-god allah. is that right?

allah is great

As a christian, I can be a soldier if I want to. It does not in any way contradict my faith/beliefs.

regardless of the commands? seems like the defense some soldiers in the Nuremberg trials gave.

Noetic - can you post some bible passages from the new testament defending what you are saying?

all you've done so far is state your personal convictions. but as a devout christain, you should subordiante your convictions to the word.

so please, reconcile what you've been saying with whats in the new testament. Thank you.

bawomolo:

like prostitution? hey it gets the bill paid kini big deal right.

I wouldnt judge a prostitute, but there are always choices.

would you mind being the guy who designed the bomb that destroyed hiroshima?  I doubt Jesus would have been proud of that.

in other words, you have sold out your values for the almighty dollars.  At least you are being honest.

would you take in a genocide if commanded to do so or would you be a conscientious objector?


Disclaimer - i don't consider being a soldier a bad thing.  

You are missing the whole point.

Someone makes the policy. . .  , someone is paid to function in a capacity to implement this policy.

if u were a christian: As a paid INEC local booth staff in an election who cannot stop rigging. what would u do?

oyb:

Noetic - can you post some bible passages from the new testament defending what you are saying?

all you've done so far is state your personal convictions. but as a devout christain, you should subordiante your convictions to the word.

so please, reconcile what you've been saying with whats in the new testament. Thank you.

are u dumb? how many times have u quoted the koran to justify ur malady?

my posts are a reflection of my understanding of the new testament.

Yes a Christian can be a soldier.
Read the whole of acts 10,very wonderful story

Acts 10
Cornelius Sends a Delegation
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius!”
4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?”
So he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.[a] He will tell you what you must do.” 7 And when the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him continually. 8 So when he had explained all these things to them, he sent them to Joppa.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they[e] killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
   
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

I wouldnt judge a prostitute, but there are always choices.

but prostitutes are just trying to earn a living just like the soldier who blasts everything in Odi.

Someone makes the policy. . .  , someone is paid to function in a capacity to implement this policy.

what if those policies goes against your Christian convictions.  

What happened to what would jesus do?

soldering is also about defending territorial integrity against unnecessary invasion from enemies.

reconcile that with this:

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28)

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse (Romans 12:14).

noetic, it seems you are suffering from the malady you love to accuse muslims of   . you seem to think that by attacking Islam you are answering my questions

this thread is not about Islam.

my posts are a reflection of my understanding of the new testament.

well, i don't understand the new testament, so kindly explain how your understanding came about. i'm sure you know it and understand it all  

bawomolo:

but prostitutes are just trying to earn a living just like the soldier who blasts everything in Odi.

what if those policies goes against your Christian convictions.  

What happened to what would jesus do?

thou has made no point.

oyb:

reconcile that with this:

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28)

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse (Romans 12:14).

noetic, it seems you are suffering from the malady you love to accuse muslims of   . you seem to think that by attacking Islam you are answering my questions

this thread is not about Islam.

well, i don't understand the new testament, so kindly explain how your understanding came about. i'm sure you know it and understand it all  

I believe osisi has provided u with ur much sought after bible verse. satisfied?

noetic2:

thou has made no point.

hmm i smell a backtrack

bawomolo:

hmm i smell a backtrack

backtrack from what? do u have a reading and comprehension problem?

I believe I already answered ur question in my previous post.

and why didnt u answer my question?

noetic2:

backtrack from what? do u have a reading and comprehension problem?

I believe I already answered ur question in my previous post.

no you didn't.

Would you object to commands that are unchristian like?

bawomolo:

no you didn't.

Would you object to commands that are unchristian like?

YES. And that simply means I will also face the consequences (Death).

what would u do in the INEC scenario?

I believe osisi has provided u with ur much sought after bible verse. satisfied?

is there anything about cornelius being in a war?

as a christian, would cornelius be justified if he killed an enemy?

i'm not thinking of peacetime soldiers here - i mean the real deal the war front.

as a christian, was cornelius  free to smite his enemies ?

oyb:

is there anything about cornelius being in a war?

as a christian, would cornelius be justified if he killed an enemy?

i'm not thinking of peacetime soldiers here - i mean the real deal the war front.

as a christian, was cornelius  free to smite his enemies ?

are u so what do soldiers do? he is a soldier, simple.

oyb:


On nairaland, christains are always going on and on about how Christianity is a religion of love, and how there is nothing in the new testamaent that endorse warefare etal

so -

can a true devout christian - be a soldier, a person whose job is to kill? how can one reconcile that? did the soldiers of christian faith of world war I, II, iraq etc go against the bible?

The job of a soldier is primarily to protect.
Christians can join the army to fight and protect whatever country they come from.
I gave you an example of the centurion in acts 10

as christians are enjoined to be peacemakers etal, should a true christian who is struck strike back?

Is this a different thread or are you still referring to soldiers?

can a person  who engage in weapons research and still be a christian?

why not
It's a profession and a good one at that.

is there anything in the new testament that justifies the crusades, both against Islam and against apostates and heretics?

If this is the reason Islam wages war on the whole world  unprovoked expecting people to turn a blind eye,then you got it all wrong.Every sovereign country has the right to protect it's citizens from outside invaders and Christians are free to join those armies,supply weapons,service them and treat the men and women in the battle line.

oyb:

is there anything about cornelius being in a war?

as a christian, would cornelius be justified if he killed an enemy?

i'm not thinking of peacetime soldiers here - i mean the real deal the war front.

as a christian, was cornelius  free to smite his enemies ?

You asked if a Christian could be a soldier,I gave you a Biblical example of a high ranking Biblical example.
Do you want a story about the battles Cornelius fought?
You may have to ask Allah to produce the non corrupted Bible so you could tell us

YES. And that simply means I will also face the consequences (Death).

oh really, i thought it was just a job?

what would u do in the INEC scenario?

turn the other eye Naija style 

to be honest, i would file a complaint and it's up to my superiors to go ahead.

The job of a soldier is primarily to protect.

what if the war is offensive and not defensive. should the christian soldier object?

bawomolo:

oh really, i thought it was just a job?

Its a job, but like prostitution, there are always choices.

turn the other eye Naija style 

to be honest, i would file a complaint and it's up to my superiors to go ahead.

does this not make u an hypocrite?

what if the war is offensive and not defensive. should the christian soldier object?

another meaningless semantic. war is war. a soldier is a soldier. so?

another Biblical example,a centurion of great faith
Matthew 8


5And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,

6And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

7And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

8The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

9For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

13And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.



Oyb,are you satisfied now?Being a soldier is a vocation.
Soldiers who commit murder are tried as war criminals
They are 2 different things
ye ye thread.

maybe i should rename the thread - can a christian engage in warfare

osisi, these soldiers from the time you are referencing to be honest seem more like officers of the peace, than people chraged with advancing their nations interests.

Soldiers who commit murder are tried as war criminals

what is murder in war


is there anything in the New Testament that justifies going to war with another nation/entity?

Isn't it the same soldiers at peacetimes that go to war when there's war?
what are you talking about?
Is it possible to be a soldier and not go to war when called upon?