Prexios,
New discoveries to share on the topic of origin. You are invited for an interactive discussion to shed light and clarify on some unresolved questions.

1. The farthest we can go up the tree is Lamurudu.
2. History places him in Afroasia
3. Authoritative accounts connect Yoruba roots to him via Oduduwa.
4. Did Lamurudu ever set foot anywhere in Yorubaland?
5. If so where?
6. If not, where did he seed Oduduwa and how did the two, father and son, separate?

Looking forward to a rich and lively interchange.

thanks so much for this conclusion.

I think Lamurudu is the climax of history. We seems to always have to invoke him.

Although I still wonder how a foreigner tell a man history, and he takes it as free and easy as it comes.

Iroyin okere, bi ko l'ekan, a dikan.

It simply means 'intellectual conquest', Did Yoruba always have lamurudu? Lazy folks won't care.

And Yoruba knew long ago that England/Hausa Fulani cooperation always means suspicion to them.

Imaging when people you suspects became your historians.

The one whose history is helped to be told is dumb. They don't care. So the tree is a foreign tree, planted by Sultan Bello,

And watered by Revd Samuel Johnson in making Nimrod, 'Lamurudu'.

He alluded to Yoruba tradition. That's the source, no more no less.

Did Johnson narrated a typical Yoruba story to establish his claims? No, but he did a retelling of Islamic version of the story of Abraham.

Like Samuel Johnson in the book of Mormons, he fused two cultures together.

Johnson superimposed Islamic tradition about the family of Abraham as missing link, to tie Yoruba to Nimrod.

Meccans banished Oduduwa for Nimrod and Abraham crises in post Islamic phase.

Who review Johnson's work in Yoruba land, was he just right and to be trusted? Why did Johnson failed to share Yoruba Abraham tale instead?

I thought that's what the man who rewrote Genesis has found, the missing link between Oduduwa and Nimrod.

But he only made infusions of Yoruba cosmology to reading Genesis.

That's medley.

But its not balanced, it becomes Nimrod biased when Nimrod was exonerated,

and Hebrew put in their place as described. Why can't Nimrod write his own dependable account?

That simply means the authority has an ax to grind. You can't use Bible to justify Nimrod, use other Nimrod favorable landmark.

Except Nimrod has no landmark save bible mentioning. So if Genesis is unstable, the story of Nimrod is unstable.

Is Nimrod Ashurbanipal or Gilgamesh? Who is he outside the scriptures?

Hmmm...nice input!

Lamurudu is an authentic Yoruba legend.

My brother, no disrespect to Christianity but the Bible needs a review...it's missing certain historical facts. There are gaps in the Biblical accounts pertaining to certain individuals, Lamurudu is one of those individuals. The Bible contains two scriptures combined into one - The Torah and the Gospel.

The Torah can be further sub partitioned into Laws, Deeds, Traditions, Cults and so on and so forth...it is much much older than any tribe of Israelite or their progenitor - Father Abraham.

The first Law to mankind was the order to Adam on the DOs and DONTs in the garden of Eden.
The first Deed of mankind was the conflict of interest between Cain and Abel.
The first Tradition was the spiritual union between Adam and Eve.
The first Cult of mankind was the formulation of the Ark and its corpus.

Every one of these order is much older than the beginning of Israelite or the seeding of their nation. So considering this, how is it then that the theme and central most important figure in the Torah is "Children of Israel"? Why couldn't the Torah address all of "mankind"?

There is another observation on this central theme sorrounding "Children of Israel". Any King or Mighty man that antagonized "Children of Israel" was demonized and malevolently portrayed as anti-God.

Lamurudu was a mighty man and a man of God, a descendant of Noah, through Ham, through Canaan. There are many atrocities committed by mankind and for which God's wrath was placed on them, not on their generations but just on the offenders. Matter of fact, for all cases of punishment in the Bible God's warning precedes consequence, and never was a people punished without first being admonished to change ways and fear God. The greatest oppressor of Children of Israel, Pharaoh, received several warnings and to even remove doubts the presence of God was dramatized to him in his palace. When his rebellion continued God started to punish in his own children and waited for him to repent before the next punishment is descended.

So what gravity of wrong doing could Ham have done unto his father to call for such a curse that would last eternity in his generations through Canaan? No warning, no admonition, no call for repent, no forgiveness, no second chance....till date the so called Hamitic Curse persists.

Is there truly a curse or did the chroniclers of the Bible played a fast one and bent truth and historical facts to displace a mighty people and race from power and dominion over the human race?


Here is the account of the chroniclers as recorded in the Torah of the Children of Israel. This is the Children of Israel telling us what was decreed by Noah, a man of God. If God went through many corrective steps to turn people around....why is this man of God become ungodly in his response to an atrocity committed by his own blood and flesh? This should call for introspect, should it not?

Note that not only was the curse documented as punishment but also that the descendants of Shem and Japheth were also elevated and apponted as "masters" over the descendants of Canaan and this role of supervision and superiority is legitimized as a decree warranted in justice to the wrong of Ham.


20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the unclothedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the unclothedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's unclothedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Where it pertains to the question of origin, one is pressed to find evolutions in the usage of root words, etymology of words and accents and transitions in lexicon. Take for example "origin" itself, which in Yoruba is "iregun", meaning a time marker. Which of these versions, origin or iregun, would have been in use in the time of Noah? Could "Lua" be the authentic name of the Ark builder, whcih in the course of recording may have been mispellled "Noah" due to the accent of the scribe?

To find evidence of this flaws go to Lagos and inspect names of streets and areas left in error due to accent and misspelling by the Portuguese and British administrators of that colony. There is no letter C in Yoruba, so how did Dosunmu become Docemo? There is no double consonant in Yoruba, so how did Ebute Meta become Ebute Metta, or Ido become Iddo....how did Ota become Otta? Worse, they misspelled Ashogbon, a high ranking Chief in the tradition of Lagos and called him Acheambong!


Is Agboniregun not the same as Aborigene? Which version was in use in time of Noah?
Is Ile Ife not the same as Nineve? Which version would have been in use during Noah's time?
Between Moremi and Maryam, which is authentic version?
What the Assyrians called Hittite, the Egyptians called Isis, both are same deity figure. Is Isis same as Isise?

Some deities have different names depending on the culture in which they are reverred. I found for instance that Oduduwa was known by different names depending on which culture was addressing him.

Oduduwa - Yoruba
Baal Hadad - Canaan
Haddu - Ugari
Dod - Assyria
Adad - Akkadia
Adodo - Ugari

Mastermind!!!!
Do you mean Yoruba land is what we have as analogy to Afro-Asia,
as in, the bible story happened in Yorubaland and was exported abroad?

Mastermind!!!!
Do you mean Yoruba land is what we have as analogy to Afro-Asia,
as in, the bible stories happened in Yorubaland and was exported abroad?

Let us not worry about Yoruba yet, let us put focus on our progenitors. I list them as follows:

Luwa/Lua
Lamurudu
Oduduwa

In Yoruba consciousness the chain of descent is attributed up to LUWA/LUA. There is no account anywhere that he ever set foot in Yorubaland, but we know his Ark settled around river Euphrates.

Lamurudu, who was also called Marduk and sometimes addressed as Sargon, had several children, two of them Oduduwa and Inanna (Yam) will be the connecting dots between Nineve and Ile Ife.

Oduduwa and Yam led allied tribes out of Afroasia into Yorubaland.

Yam also was addressed as Sargon and was deified. The totem authority of the Sargons is the embodiment of the cult Asherat, which Yoruba call Ashe.

I am not sure but I suspect that the Sargon authority and power is behind the 7 State dynasties established by Oduduwa, in addition to the Empires of Ife and Oyo.

Yam Sargon, called Iyami Osoronga, owned the Imperial authority or "the Sovereign Ashe".

I need to look deeper into whether the water deities Yemoja, Oya, Osun....all have roots in her.

So to loop back to your point, unless we can account for Luwa and Lamurudu in Yorubaland, Im going to say no....Yoruba beginnings started in Afroasia.

Sorry if its a little bit disjointed, in a rush for time.

MetaPhysical:
Let us not worry about Yoruba yet, let us put focus on our progenitors. I list them as follows:

Luwa/Lua
Lamurudu
Oduduwa

In Yoruba consciousness the chain of descent is attributed up to LUWA/LUA. There is no account anywhere that he ever set foot in Yorubaland, but we know his Ark settled around river Euphrates.

Lamurudu, who was also called Marduk and sometimes addressed as Sargon, had several children, two of them Oduduwa and Inanna (Yam) will be the connecting dots between Nineve and Ile Ife.

Oduduwa and Yam led allied tribes out of Afroasia into Yorubaland.

Yam also was addressed as Sargon and was deified. The totem authority of the Sargons is the embodiment of the cult Asherat, which Yoruba call Ashe.

I am not sure but I suspect that the Sargon authority and power is behind the 7 State dynasties established by Oduduwa, in addition to the Empires of Ife and Oyo.

Yam Sargon, called Iyami Osoronga, owned the Imperial authority or "the Sovereign Ashe".

I need to look deeper into whether the water deities Yemoja, Oya, Osun....all have roots in her.

So to loop back to your point, unless we can account for Luwa and Lamurudu in Yorubaland, Im going to say no....Yoruba beginnings started in Afroasia.

If you say no, my brother then we miss an avenue for unraveling the mystery.

There is no problem with being right or wrong, but you must try present a native alternative to the name Lamurudu.

What traditional idea is associated to the name just like LUWA is to Noah, I.e. 'great conduct.'

That's easy!
The idea that the Lamurudu story started with Sultan Bello and then repeated by Johnson is false. I have pointed this out many times already. Sultan Bello was a scholar and a very important ruler in the Sudan, he could have assigned authority of the story to himself and get credit for it but instead said "It is told that....". In other words, the source of the story belongs elsewhere. We need to find where or who was the chain of communication in relaying this story to Sultan.

In his time, who were the cultures and people that the Sultan would be in contact and exchange ideas with? Not only was he exchanging ideas, he also trusted the source, otherwise he would not himself have transmitted the story, considering the implication to his own leadership and position if the story was bogus.

In addition to the Black Emperors in the Sudan, the Arabs, the Moors....can you think of anyone else the Sultan would have in his circle of exchange?

There is no controversy in Ooni's palace, the seat of Oduduwa authority, about Lamurudu being the ancestor of Oduduwa. Neither is it disputed in Oyo palace, the seat of Oraminyan.

The fact Lamurudu does not have a token in Yorubaland supports my position, and does not invalidate the theory that he fathered Oduduwa and the father remained behind while the son migrated out of Afroasia. If Lamurudu had migrated out he would have tokens all over the place.

Luwa never migrated either but Ifa started with him and since Ifa was brought with the migrants we have the memory of Luwa. Ifa teaches uprightness, which is synonymous with the character modeled by Luwa himself. Not to digress from the point but I would like you to know that Ifa did not start on the soil of Yorubaland. It started with Luwa in Afroasia. The Ark is thought to be a physical structure , a boat built to house people and animals. That was a crypted message the true Ark is the Iroke. Some people say the Ark is Aroko. Ifa is survival, bottom line that's what the Ark is.

So if Luwa is connected in Yoruba ancestry and Oduduwa is also connected, the link between the two of them, Lamurudu must be recognized as a valid link in the ancestral chain. Lamurudu was not donated through Islamic religion, in fact Islam itself borrowed from Yoruba culture. The rites of Ifa, which Yoruba had practiced for centuries before Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and which we still have today seeded many rites in the prayer habits or belief system of the Abrahamaic religions. They learnt about Lamurudu from Yoruba, not the other way around.

Alright,
what happens when I agree with your theory or conclusion sir?

No not at all. This isn't about agreements but to drill down and unravel more facts on the topic of origin, particularly using place names and oriki....which I know you are very good at. You have mentioned for me to talk about the Ogori/Magogo and connection with Ugari and Gog and Magog. I cannot jump to Gog/Magog without first laying foundation for who they are how their story was distorted and why Ogori/Magogo is the remnans of migrants from Ugari, the ancient city of Magog.

So, no, not looking for consensus at all on the story of origin. Anyway, let's fast forward....do you happen to have oriki for Ogori/Magogo people?

Oh that's so beautiful,

I love progress, we are old and wise enough not to let stupid clutters block the study.

Albeit, I can't do much as required. I'm of southern Yoruba. Im just learning about the ogori magogo.

I don't have the resources.

I've come to appreciate my weakness as part of the learning curve in the whole picture of things.

sometimes, I can be accurate and most of the time, I'm completely without pint of an idea on a Yoruba topics.

One day, I was discussing Yoruba place name with a friend whom I told I can handle any Yoruba place names and their meaning.

The guy told me, you are dealing with familiar terms, believe it, some terms are beyond your knowledge.

let me demonstrate what I'm talking about: can you tell me the meaning of my place name, Oro oruwo?

Hm, I was dumbfounded. I tried to crack my brain, and the guy saw my weakness and said 'hm, Yoruba scholar'.

then he said let me help. you see, the meaning of the term oro oruwo is, 'the midnight agreement is sealed.'

he told me there was to be a pact, and the elders were to give their response by afternoon of the midnight discourse.

so in the morrow, the elders gave their word, that theyve accepted the midnight term and conditions.

So the place became so called. I was dazed at that, then I said this goes a long way to show that akii siwaju eleede peede.

one other place name with baffling outlook to me is edun-abon, you start to wonder, is abon a Yoruba word?

What we know yet is tip of the tip of an iceberg.

Interesting.......

if I address the comments they will say I'm looking for likes nd popularism and invoke insults on me

funny thread sha. ...

....

pls mail me titialayo25@yahoo.co.uk,thanks ugent and important

MetaPhysical:
Hmmm...nice input!

Lamurudu is an authentic Yoruba legend.

My brother, no disrespect to Christianity but the Bible needs a review...it's missing certain historical facts. There are gaps in the Biblical accounts pertaining to certain individuals, Lamurudu is one of those individuals. The Bible contains two scriptures combined into one - The Torah and the Gospel.

The Torah can be further sub partitioned into Laws, Deeds, Traditions, Cults and so on and so forth...it is much much older than any tribe of Israelite or their progenitor - Father Abraham.

The first Law to mankind was the order to Adam on the DOs and DONTs in the garden of Eden.
The first Deed of mankind was the conflict of interest between Cain and Abel.
The first Tradition was the spiritual union between Adam and Eve.
The first Cult of mankind was the formulation of the Ark and its corpus.

Every one of these order is much older than the beginning of Israelite or the seeding of their nation. So considering this, how is it then that the theme and central most important figure in the Torah is "Children of Israel"? Why couldn't the Torah address all of "mankind"?

There is another observation on this central theme sorrounding "Children of Israel". Any King or Mighty man that antagonized "Children of Israel" was demonized and malevolently portrayed as anti-God.

MetaPhysical:
Where it pertains to the question of origin, one is pressed to find evolutions in the usage of root words, etymology of words and accents and transitions in lexicon. Take for example "origin" itself, which in Yoruba is "iregun", meaning a time marker. Which of these versions, origin or iregun, would have been in use in the time of Noah? Could "Lua" be the authentic name of the Ark builder, whcih in the course of recording may have been mispellled "Noah" due to the accent of the scribe?

To find evidence of this flaws go to Lagos and inspect names of streets and areas left in error due to accent and misspelling by the Portuguese and British administrators of that colony. There is no letter C in Yoruba, so how did Dosunmu become Docemo? There is no double consonant in Yoruba, so how did Ebute Meta become Ebute Metta, or Ido become Iddo....how did Ota become Otta? Worse, they misspelled Ashogbon, a high ranking Chief in the tradition of Lagos and called him Acheambong!


Is Agboniregun not the same as Aborigene? Which version was in use in time of Noah?
Is Ile Ife not the same as Nineve? Which version would have been in use during Noah's time?
Between Moremi and Maryam, which is authentic version?
What the Assyrians called Hittite, the Egyptians called Isis, both are same deity figure. Is Isis same as Isise?

Some deities have different names depending on the culture in which they are reverred. I found for instance that Oduduwa was known by different names depending on which culture was addressing him.

Oduduwa - Yoruba
Baal Hadad - Canaan
Haddu - Ugari
Dod - Assyria
Adad - Akkadia
Adodo - Ugari

lol very funny , you are manipulating original words to justify your clueless. Yam sargon is different from iyami osoromaniga, this is the mean of iyami osoromaniga- iya mi ti n soro ni bi tio ga this is phrase using for a mother that use offer sacrifice on their children inform of prayer so every mother that pray for their children is a iyami osoromaniga. So bros get your fact and don't disorder to get your own matching words because of your intuition.