4kings:

@bolded; They don't regard a "separate higher being outside of the universe", that's panentheism

I also wonder how they see this.

Because there is no evidence for it
If you say god did it you would have to specify which god exactly

And that usually takes us back to square one because if god created the universe, who created god?

hahn:


Because there is no evidence for it
If you say god did it you would have to specify which god exactly

And that usually takes us back to square one because if god created the universe, who created god?

Sure there is no evidence that a God did it or otherwise.
So being very assertive of either point is baffling, bearing in mind that atheists dislike the word "FAITH".

4kings:

Sure there is no evidence that a God did it or otherwise.
So being very assertive of either point is baffling, bearing in mind that atheists dislike the word "FAITH".

Do you need faith to "believe" that spiderman does not exist in reality?

hahn:


Do you need faith to "believe" that spiderman does not exist in reality?

did u even compare the basis for considering "spiderman" and a "creator/prior intelligence"?
spiderman - as a result of woolgathering.
intelligent designer - as a result of rational thinking.

So NO, i don't need faith to believe that spiderman does not exist.

4kings:


did u even compare the basis for considering "spiderman" and a "creator/prior intelligence"?
spiderman - as a result of woolgathering.
intelligent designer - as a result of rational thinking.

So NO, i don't need faith to believe that spiderman does not exist.

Rational thinking or ignorant assumptions? Seems to be a thin line between these two

hahn:


Rational thinking or ignorant assumptions? Seems to be a thin line between these two

Wowwww, "ignorant assumptions"
Please educate me

4kings:


did u even compare the basis for considering "spiderman" and a "creator/prior intelligence"?
spiderman - as a result of woolgathering.
intelligent designer - as a result of rational thinking.

So NO, i don't need faith to believe that spiderman does not exist.

Same way I do not need faith to come to the conclusion that god does not exist

4kings:

Wowwww, "ignorant assumptions"
Please educate me

The concept of god was created when people didn't know much about the earth. The word "god" is used mainly to fill in gaps of knowledge, most times when we are ignorant about the subject in question. How did this get here, "god did it". It is an ignorant assumption

hahn:


The concept of god was created when people didn't know much about the earth. The word "god" is used mainly to fill in gaps of knowledge, most times when we are ignorant about the subject in question. How did this get here, "god did it". It is an ignorant assumption

You've told me this before.
Ok, what gaps have u filled to come to your conclusion

4kings:

You've told me this before.
Ok, what gaps have u filled to come to your conclusion

Last year, I think, somewhere in Ondo state about 10 people reportedly died "mysteriously" (I cannot remember the exact figure but the news was posted here on nairaland) and everyone in the village rushed into their houses to get water and then proceeded to their village shrine to pour water on their goddess. Apparently, they believed "god did it".

Luckily for them, some guys went there and investigated and discovered they all died from local gin(ogogoro). And thus "the gap was filled".

There are several instances like this throughout history that go as far back as when people, even in Europe, thought small pox was of the devil or a punishment from god.

Do you get the picture?

hahn:


Last year, I think, somewhere in Ondo state about 10 people reportedly died "mysteriously" (I cannot remember the exact figure but the news was posted here on nairaland) and everyone in the village rushed into their houses to get water and then proceeded to their village shrine to pour water on their goddess. Apparently, they believed "god did it".

Luckily for them, some guys went there and investigated and discovered they all died from local gin(ogogoro). And thus "the gap was filled".

There are several instances like this throughout history that go as far back as when people, even in Europe, thought small pox was of the devil or a punishment from god.

Do you get the picture?

I'm a deist, i don't agree with divine intervention(except proven otherwise), so i get your point, this proves that the people were ignorant and it was not God.
But my question is, what ignorance have u filled to come to the conclusion that there is no God.

4kings:

I'm a deist, i don't agree with divine intervention(except proven otherwise), so i get your point, this proves that the people were ignorant and it was not God.
But my question is, what ignorance have u filled to come to the conclusion that there is no God.

Hmmm. I just gave you a general definition. I am guessing you expect a personal one.

Well, I didn't grow up a theist in the first place. I grew up with the knowledge that all religions and their gods are man made and so far there has been no evidence for "God", at least as described by religion. If it exists, it is either incompetent, not interested in humans as we like to think or really doesn't give a fvck.

I am not a scientist either so do not bring in evolution

4kings:

I'm a deist, i don't agree with divine intervention(except proven otherwise), so i get your point, this proves that the people were ignorant and it was not God.
But my question is, what ignorance have u filled to come to the conclusion that there is no God.

If you feel I did not answer this question satisfactorily, maybe you should elaborate.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that a God exists? And how would you describe it's features? Is it male or female? Black or white? Veggie or McDonald's?

hahn:


If you feel I did not answer this question satisfactorily, maybe you should elaborate.

You simply can't be totally certain of something you have no proof about.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that a God exists? And how would you describe it's features? Is it male or female? Black or white? Veggie or McDonald's?

I am an Agnostic Deist; i maintain the opinion that there is a God, but i'm not assertive.

hahn:


Hmmm. I just gave you a general definition. I am guessing you expect a personal one.

Well, I didn't grow up a theist in the first place. I grew up with the knowledge that all religions and their gods are man made and so far there has been no evidence for "God", at least as described by religion. If it exists, it is either incompetent, not interested in humans as we like to think or really doesn't give a fvck.

I am not a scientist either so do not bring in evolution

@bolded, why use conditional statement if u are so sure?

4kings:

You simply can't be totally certain of something you have no proof about.

I am an Agnostic Deist; i maintain the opinion that there is a God, but i'm not assertive.


@bolded, why use conditional statement if u are so sure?

Lol. You mean the same way theists are so sure of their different gods that they have never seen?

I am always open to suggestions.

How did you come to the conclusion there is a god and what are it's attributes?

4kings:

You simply can't be totally certain of something you have no proof about.

I am an Agnostic Deist; i maintain the opinion that there is a God, but i'm not assertive.


@bolded, why use conditional statement if u are so sure?

I don't think there is any such thing as Agnostic Deist . But let's assume there's one , it should mean not certain that God is an interventionist and that it can't be known if God does intervene .

Yo I was just going through this thread anyway I'm agnostic I honestly don't know but I do know that the universe can't be 6-10000 years old. This is because we can see light in space that's more than 6000 years old and it isn't supposed to be so cuz there wont be enough time to for the light to get to earth. You see the cool thing is when you're looking in space you aren't seeing things as they are but as they were. You're looking back in time cuz the speed of light is constant about 130 000m/s that's very fast in earth but in the vacuum of space it won't travel that fast enough in far distances. In other words the andromeda galaxy and even or second nearest star proxima centura aren't supposed to exist iono if you're getting my drifr

KingEbukasBlog:


I don't think there is any such thing as Agnostic Deist . But let's assume there's one , it should mean not certain that God is an interventionist and that it can't be known if God does intervene .

Yes, there is such a thing as Agnostic Deist and it is simply not being certain of the existence of God, while still upholding the idea behind deism(Non-interventionist).
http://shonari.net/ramblings/i-am-a-agnostic-deist/

hahn:


Lol. You mean the same way theists are so sure of their different gods that they have never seen?

I am always open to suggestions.

Does this mean u are agnostic?

How did you come to the conclusion there is a god and what are it's attributes?

principle of causation based on my view of nature.
I dont know its attribute; if a God exists, i dont believe he interferes here on earth.

4kings:

Yes, there is such a thing as Agnostic Deist and it is simply not being certain of the existence of God, while still upholding the idea behind deism(Non-interventionist).
http://shonari.net/ramblings/i-am-a-agnostic-deist/

Just hold on , what if you are not certain that God is an interventionist , what then will it be called ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Just hold on , what if you are not certain that God is an interventionist , what then will it be called ?

Agnosticism

4kings:

Does this mean u are agnostic?

It means I am an atheists who relies on proof. So far, there is no proof that any god exists so I will treat it as non existent. Mostly for it's sake because if it does exists, then the religious definitions of it are really embarrassing. It should be happy

principle of causation based on my view of nature.

Okay. Cool. Are you open to other suggestions? God might actually be a "thing" instead of a "being" as most people assume.

I dont know its attribute; if a God exists, i dont believe he interferes here on earth.

It is still based on assumptions.

hahn:


It means I am an atheists who relies on proof. So far, there is no proof that any god exists so I will treat it as non existent. Mostly for it's sake because if it does exists, then the religious definitions of it are really embarrassing. It should be happy



Okay. Cool. Are you open to other suggestions? God might actually be a "thing" instead of a "being" as most people assume.



It is still based on assumptions.

Cool then.
And yes, i'm open to suggestions.

Despite all efforts, atheism has struggled to exist