EZEIGBO1OFIMO:
As a lay man and non realist that you are, you have endlessly babbled the problems out loud, yet you ask no pertinent questions, nor offer any silent opinions. if you say religion is bad and children should not be indoctrinated, what then do you suggest we imbibe morals to children, by reading them the famed dialogues of Socrates as written by Plato?. What is being Good anyway?, is being good a function of religion?, does the expulsion of religion from man's ethics make him a creature of lesser evil? why then is man evil, if religion is not therein the basis of his evil nature?. The answer to these question reveal the simple truth that Man is inherently evil, and with or without religion, as long as he possesses the greatest of gift of all, Freewill, he is responsible for his own actions. religion is not perfect, and may need some revisions so as to cushion the effects of disequilibrium brought about by ethics and morals of the 21st century. Expunging religion is not the answer, Man is both Good evil and Evil, and by his actions continues the Order and Chaos cycle of the universe.

I neva said religion is the basis of mans evil. U need to get ur eyes checked ., improve ur reading ability and stop behaving daft .

urahara:


How in lord shivas name was i supposed to know that those werent your doctrines . all the xtians i have ever seen and including i , held that doctrine. Geez. It aint my fault xtians have so many contradictory doctrines.

No one said it's your fault if they a zillion and one doctrine, you do have a problem of generalising, dont you think so?? You said you were once a Christian, do every Christian hold your belief(s)??

And your defense goes "every one I've seen, or every I know or everyone I come across", have you seen or come across half the Christians in this world??

opeaceo:


No one said it's your fault if they a zillion and one doctrine, you do have a problem of generalising, dont you think so?? You said you were once a Christian, do every Christian hold your belief(s)??

And your defense goes "every one I've seen, or every I know or everyone I come across", have you seen or come across half the Christians in this world??

I apologise , i m sowwi, i just thought the doctrine of hell involved torment for all xtians. I didnt know some xtians blived there was no torment in hell.
I guess am learnin

urahara:


Most non xtians dont bliv the above

Most atheists and muslims I know actually think that. I've seen atheist teach others that Jesus told people to literally hate their family, was okay with slavery, to kill ur enemies (Luke 19:27) , love me or I burn u, hates women etc.

urahara:


I apologise , i m sowwi, i just thought the doctrine of hell involved torment for all xtians. I didnt know some xtians blived there was no torment in hell.
I guess am learnin

It's actually the most subscribe view of hell held by New Testament scholars.

Also there is torment in hell, just not torture.

Richirich713:


Most atheists and muslims I know actually think that. I've seen atheist teach others that Jesus told people to literally hate their family, was okay with slavery, to kill ur enemies (Luke 19:27) , love me or I burn u, hates women etc.

Most atheist and muslims i have seen dont bliv d above

Richirich713:


It's actually the most subscribe view of hell held by New Testament scholars.

Also there is torment in hell, just not torture.

Torment and torture watz d difference

urahara:


Torment and torture watz d difference

the bible uses the word torment when referring to the rich man in hell. The rich man wasn't screaming in pain due to physical torture.

It's everlasting shame, I hold this view mainly becuz of my recent understanding that the ancient Hebrews were a honor-shame based society, and how important honor and shame were to them.

Honestly I'm not completely decided on hell although I'm pretty convinced it's not literal fires.

Richirich713:


the bible uses the word torment when referring to the rich man in hell. The rich man wasn't screaming in pain due to physical torture.

It's everlasting shame, I hold this view mainly becuz of my recent understanding that the ancient Hebrews were a honor-shame based society, and how important honor and shame were to them.

Honestly I'm not completely decided on hell although I'm pretty convinced it's not literal fires.

23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.


Luke 16




There u have it.

urahara:



23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.


Luke 16




There u have it.

1st - yeah his in torment yet still able to speak quite clearly to Abraham, he aint screaming out in pain as hell is typical depicted. U know that Dante version of hell where people are just screaming in pain biting on their teeth as they get tortured.

2nd - he doesn't ask to get out of hell he only wants to get Lazarus in, to continue to serve him by relieving him of his anguish. In fact he indirectly blames God for not giving him enough information.

3rd- the term agony is better translated as "anguish" as NT Professor Darrell L. Bock points in his book "Luke" :

"The rich man has gone from self-indulgence to anguish. Luke here uses a different term for suffering than that used in 16:23: 'odynaomai' refers to continual pain and grief, especially mental pain, which is why 'anguish' is a good way to render the term." [cf. its usage in Luke 2.48: "When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” And Acts 20.38: "What grieved them most was his statement that they would. never see his face again."
 
5th - Jesus commonly used an hyperbole and overstatement to convey his points eg. Luke 14:26, Mark 10:24 and I am not in the opinion that the NT Writers intended all their words to be taken literally.

6 - like for example Jude calls hell the black darkness in Jude 13 but just before that spoke of eternal fire (Jude 7). Jesus does the same in Matthew 3:10 and 8:12

7- I'll stop here since it's too much too go thru.

Sources :

•http://www.christianthinktank.com/gr5part2.html
•http://www.tektonics.org/uz/2muchshame.php
•Four Views of Hell -Ebook
•http://www.tektonics.org/film/hellislike.html
•
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q5vGcpx1sY

Richirich713:



1st - yeah his in torment yet still able to speak quite clearly to Abraham, he aint screaming out in pain as hell is typical depicted. U know that Dante version of hell where people are just screaming in pain biting on their teeth as they get tortured.
Sources :

•http://www.christianthinktank.com/gr5part2.html
•http://www.tektonics.org/uz/2muchshame.php
•Four Views of Hell -Ebook
•http://www.tektonics.org/film/hellislike.html
•
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q5vGcpx1sY

Whether he could talk clearly or not is of little relevance as the point remains that he was being tortured.

So far the depictions of hell i ve seen according to ur fellow xtians who go to hell and come back involves the tormented been able to talk clearly

urahara:



Whether he could talk clearly or not is of little relevance as the point remains that he was being tortured.

His is in torment just not some Dante divine comedy type of torture chamber. I never said their won't be suffering in hell, there will be.

urahara:


So far the depictions of hell i ve seen according to ur fellow xtians who go to hell and come back involves the tormented been able to talk clearly

I don't get ur point? That shouldn't and can't be used to interpret the bible.

Richirich713:



2nd - he doesn't ask to get out of hell he only wants to get Lazarus in, to continue to serve him by relieving him of his anguish. In fact he indirectly blames God for not giving him enough information.

The story in no way tells us lazarus served the rich man while alive . hs asks lazarus to dip his finger in water to cool his tongue because he was in agony in the fire. The last time i checked fire isnt exactly the most pleasant of places to be in.

Richirich713:
3rd- the term agony is better translated as "anguish" as NT Professor Darrell L. Bock points in his book "Luke" :
"The rich man has gone from self-indulgence to anguish. Luke here uses a different term for suffering than that used in 16:23: 'odynaomai' refers to continual pain and grief, especially mental pain, which is why 'anguish' is a good way to render the term." [cf. its usage in Luke 2.48: "When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” And Acts 20.38: "What grieved them most was his statement that they would. never see his face again."

Odynaomia means agony. Christians always remember a better translation for a word whenever it doesnt agree with their beliefs . this is why there are so many denominations and differing doctrines in xtianity. Each and everyone of them claims they know a better translation of a greek word.

Anguish means extreme pain either of body or mind.

Richirich713:


5th - Jesus commonly used an hyperbole and overstatement to convey his points eg. Luke 14:26, Mark 10:24 and I am not in the opinion that the NT Writers intended all their words to be taken literally.
6 - like for example Jude calls hell the black darkness in Jude 13 but just before that spoke of eternal fire (Jude

How then do u know when a bible verse is symbolic or not. Why is a verse always symbolic when it goes against ur beliefs.

urahara:


The story in no way tells us lazarus served the rich man while alive . hs asks lazarus to dip his finger in water to cool his tongue because he was in agony in the fire. The last time i checked fire isnt exactly the most pleasant of places to be in.


Odynaomia means agony. Christians always remember a better translation for a word whenever it doesnt agree with their beliefs . this is why there are so many denominations and differing doctrines in xtianity. Each and everyone of them claims they know a better translation of a greek word.

Anguish means extreme pain either of body or mind.



How then do u know when a bible verse is symbolic or not. Why is a verse always symbolic when it goes against ur beliefs.

I'm done arguing with u guy, just one last thing, how I know ?, It's called commonsense and actually making a effort to understand how the ancient hebrew eastern culture ,society understood the texts, not just reading from my western perspective.
Reading commentaries from people who can read the original Greek not just reading English translations.

And I don't say verse are symbolic cuz they go against my beliefs, I actually do research before I make a decision, I even said I'm not completely certain about the view of hell I subscribe to since I haven't completed my research.

For ur info I use to take the literal fire view, there's evens earlier posts of me arguing strongly for it.

Richirich713:


I'm done arguing with u guy, just one last thing, how I know ?, It's called commonsense and actually making a effort to understand how the ancient hebrew eastern culture ,society understood the texts, not just reading from my western perspective.
Reading commentaries from people who can read the original Greek not just reading English translations.

And I don't say verse are symbolic cuz they go against my beliefs, I actually do research before I make a decision, I even said I'm not completely certain about the view of hell I subscribe to since I haven't completed my research.

For ur info I use to take the literal fire view, there's evens earlier posts of me arguing strongly for it.

Lol . True bro . They want us to accept it as literal so they can mock us . They then vent their frustration when they find out that we have in depth knowledge of the bible .

These people are not willing to learn , they are hellbent on proving that we are wrong - that's the simple truth

KingEbukasBlog:


Lol . True bro . They want us to accept it as literal so they can mock us . They then vent their frustration when they find out that we have in depth knowledge of the bible .

Lol its just being a fundy atheist.

You may be a fundamentalist atheist if.... (look at number 204 under Biblical criticism)
http://www.tektoonics.com/test/parody/fundyath.html

KingEbukasBlog:


These people are not willing to learn , they are hellbent on proving that we are wrong - that's the simple truth

That's why I just ignore certain threads seeking attention nowadays, just have a look at the atheist threads open recently today.

Lol,check out the numbers 9, 52, 53, 61, 75, 95, 100 104, 149 on the link.

Those are the typical atheists u find on nairaland religious section.

KingEbukasBlog:


Lol . True bro . They want us to accept it as literal so they can mock us . They then vent their frustration when they find out that we have in depth knowledge of the bible .

These people are not willing to learn , they are hellbent on proving that we are wrong - that's the simple truth

No one wants u to accept a stupid literal hell fire view. If you say you have an indepth knowledge on the bible what then would u say about those who have a literal hell view

Richirich713:


I'm done arguing with u guy, just one last thing, how I know ?, It's called commonsense and actually making a effort to understand how the ancient hebrew eastern culture ,society understood the texts, not just reading from my western perspective.
Reading commentaries from people who can read the original Greek not just reading English translations.

And I don't say verse are symbolic cuz they go against my beliefs, I actually do research before I make a decision, I even said I'm not completely certain about the view of hell I subscribe to since I haven't completed my research.

For ur info I use to take the literal fire view, there's evens earlier posts of me arguing strongly for it.

What made u change ur literal hell view then. I ve read commentaries from those who understand greek and some say literal, some say figurative

Richirich713:


Lol its just being a fundy atheist.

You may be a fundamentalist atheist if.... (look at number 204 under Biblical criticism)
http://www.tektoonics.com/test/parody/fundyath.html



That's why I just ignore certain threads seeking attention nowadays, just have a look at the atheist threads open recently today.

Lol,check out the numbers 9, 52, 53, 61, 75, 95, 100 104, 149 on the link.

Those are the typical atheists u find on nairaland religious section.

lwkmd ... Lmao ... this is so true . This should a topic on Nairaland .

@ Richirich713, no nid beating about d bush, u don't believe hell fire is literal, fine, but we all know over 90% of xtians do.
D question is; if ur child disobey u, will u torture him for 1hr, 1min? Talk more of eternity! Am a xtian but av bin asking myself some hard questions recently n doing some critical tinking n I've com 2 realise DAT I belived all I belived cos of child indoctrination. I can never b an atheist cos d evidence of an intelligent creator are evident all around me but i've learnt alot frm dem. Wat i've com to realise is most atheist were former belivers.
am losing my faith in d bible n d biblical god. Too many contradictns, lies, deciets, genocide etc
Lately av bin doing a research on d history of xtianity, in 1 word, I feel used/conned. Now I understand y d bible ask us to have d mind of a child, only a child believes without question.

CHARLOE:
@ Richirich713, no nid beating about d bush, u don't believe hell fire is literal, fine, but we all know over 90% of xtians do.
D question is; if ur child disobey u, will u torture him for 1hr, 1min? Talk more of eternity! Am a xtian but av bin asking myself some hard questions recently n doing some critical tinking n I've com 2 realise DAT I belived all I belived cos of child indoctrination. I can never b an atheist cos d evidence of an intelligent creator are evident all around me but i've learnt alot frm dem. Wat i've com to realise is most atheist were former belivers.
am losing my faith in d bible n d biblical god. Too many contradictns, lies, deciets, genocide etc
Lately av bin doing a research on d history of xtianity, in 1 word, I feel used/conned. Now I understand y d bible ask us to have d mind of a child, only a child believes without question.

I told myself the exact bolded when i ceased being a xtian and well ......

[quote author=CHARLOE post=45224276]@ Richirich713, no nid beating about d bush, u don't believe hell fire is literal, fine, but we all know over 90% of xtians do.
D question is; if ur child disobey u, will u torture him for 1hr, 1min? Talk more of eternity! Am a xtian but av bin asking myself some hard questions recently n doing some critical tinking n I've com 2 realise DAT I belived all I belived cos of child indoctrination. I can never b an atheist cos d evidence of an intelligent creator are evident all around me but i've learnt alot frm dem. Wat i've com to realise is most atheist were former belivers.
am losing my faith in d bible n d biblical god. Too many contradictns, lies, deciets, genocide etc
Lately av bin doing a research on d history of xtianity, in 1 word, I feel used/conned. Now I understand y d bible ask us to have d mind of a child, only a child believes without question.[/quote]

Not a child actually, the bible asks u to be a fool for jesus. To believe the bible stories u have 2 dump all your wisdom and logic.

Havent u heard the saying from martin luther king

Reason is the devils LovePeddler. The devils prostitute.

She never comes to d aid of faith

@ urahara, I no wat am saying, I can't tow ur path but I respect u n ur type cos u're not bound by fear. Am more of a truth seeker now, but atheism is not an option. Am not rebelling against d bible/biblical/god, just after d truth, fearlessly.

CHARLOE:
@ urahara, I no wat am saying, I can't tow ur path but I respect u n ur type cos u're not bound by fear. Am more of a truth seeker now, but atheism is not an option. Am not rebelling against d bible/biblical/god, just after d truth, fearlessly.

Then my bros search for the truth diligently. .

Child Abuse

CHARLOE:
@ Richirich713, no nid beating about d bush, u don't believe hell fire is literal, fine, but we all know over 90% of xtians do.
D question is; if ur child disobey u, will u torture him for 1hr, 1min? Talk more of eternity! Am a xtian but av bin asking myself some hard questions recently n doing some critical tinking n I've com 2 realise DAT I belived all I belived cos of child indoctrination. I can never b an atheist cos d evidence of an intelligent creator are evident all around me but i've learnt alot frm dem. Wat i've com to realise is most atheist were former belivers.
am losing my faith in d bible n d biblical god. Too many contradictns, lies, deciets, genocide etc
Lately av bin doing a research on d history of xtianity, in 1 word, I feel used/conned. Now I understand y d bible ask us to have d mind of a child, only a child believes without question.

I don't go with the majority, I think for myself.

I guess abortion is the physical abuse.