Hi gang,

It's been a while. I have been off mostly because whenever I come in, like today, all I see is one ad or another, or request for services. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with either category of posts and I am guilty of the same crime every now and then. When I joined in 2008 though (Wow! Almost 10 years now), it was all about sharing knowledge, acquiring knowledge and debating best practices. Let me see if I can revive the tradition, he he:

So, if you have been coding long enough, you will know that all you had at one point was regular javascript, if you wanted to do anything interactive. This of course came with its main disadvantage - browser incompatibilities. Enter JavaScript frameworks, of which the most popular is perhaps jQuery. Those these frameworks have helped ease the pain of web development, they too have their own issues, many of which has led to a campaign to move back to the "good old days" of regular javascript.

Question:
What say you? Do you primarily use regular javascript, frameworks, or both? Explain why as well, regardless of choice.

Oya, let's get back to learning something

Not just JavaScript frameworks. Avoid all types of libraries like plagues.

Why?

Master Regular javascript first then frameworks . most frameworks are built on the core. so a knowledge of the core should be core before migrating to frameworks. from working and coding applications experience, frameworks only makes the task achieved with less coding but still rooted in pure javascript. as a developer though, i prefer pure javascript coding to libraries.

@webdeveloperqx
Your answer is at the core of what I am driving at

On a slightly different topic, it's the same reason why I tell people that since the Book of Mormon, that used by the Catholics, etc all reference the Bible, why not just go straight to the Bible. After all, it is the "oliginal". Not having a basic understanding of pure javascript can often lead to abuse of the frameworks, overuse and unnecessary use, to mention but a few. In other words, if all you are doing is, say, doing a DOM manipulation or 2 on a site, is it worth importing KBs of jQuery, thus increasing page load time?

More comments please...

yawatide:
@webdeveloperqx
Your answer is at the core of what I am driving at

On a slightly different topic, it's the same reason why I tell people that since the Book of Mormon, that used by the Catholics, etc all reference the Bible, why not just go straight to the Bible. After all, it is the "oliginal". Not having a basic understanding of pure javascript can often lead to abuse of the frameworks, overuse and unnecessary use, to mention but a few. In other words, if all you are doing is, say, doing a DOM manipulation or 2 on a site, is it worth importing KBs of jQuery, thus increasing page load time?

More comments please...

Though with web development library like UGLIFY JS. jQuery files minified files can be done. as the library strips space and uglify the codes, this has improved page speed and loading time plus smaller web page sizes.

check out UGLIFY JS. Its cool. i do use it on my Mac Pro.

yawatide:
Why?

The time taken to learn these silly frameworks springing up endlessly can be used to master the core language.

Moreover, they limit one's creativity. The argument for less code isn't valid for me. What about the thousand lines of unnecessary classes that the browser has to read through before executing the few codes you actually need in the framework? Less work for you but more work for the browser.

@webdeveloperqx
Even the jQuery js minified file, for example, is a few KB in size. One needs to weigh the cost vs benefit of using jQuery in this instance. In other words, is it worth including jQuery.js when all you are doing is validating a contact form field?

@excanny
I know you are being a bit sarcastic when you say, "silly". Remember, when all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail. Each framework has its advantages, disadvantages and uses. Also, browsers have gotten pretty good over time. Also, thanks to, for example, lazy loading, you don't have to include every single js or css file at once. Finally, you can also improve performance, by, for example, including you js calls at the bottom of the file instead of at the top. Chrome's web developer tools comes in very handy here.

In conclusion:
For me, it's all about cost vs benefit. I also believe in, "jack of all trades, master of none". I use regular javascript and a little of dojo and node. There is way too much out there and way too little time to learn them all, while also pursuing personal endeavors. I respect those who take their time to learn every single thing under the sun, but sorry, that's not me. I will learn only that which I need to learn at a particular time.

More comments please. There may be no right or wrong answer. All the same, it is good to get a feel for how we think. I am beginning to enjoy this board again already

yawatide:
@webdeveloperqx
Your answer is at the core of what I am driving at

On a slightly different topic, it's the same reason why I tell people that since the Book of Mormon, that used by the Catholics, etc all reference the Bible, why not just go straight to the Bible. After all, it is the "oliginal". Not having a basic understanding of pure javascript can often lead to abuse of the frameworks, overuse and unnecessary use, to mention but a few. In other words, if all you are doing is, say, doing a DOM manipulation or 2 on a site, is it worth importing KBs of jQuery, thus increasing page load time?

More comments please...

JavaScript libraries/frameworks are great for their purposes. What gets ugly is having users download large files, most of which doesn't get used on the web page. If all I'm doing is simple DOM manipulation, I implement it in actual JavaScript, without any framework/library.
But try building a 3D game in traditional JavaScript only and you'll know what's good about libraries/frameworks.
Generally I try to write as little code as possible to get the job done. It makes the browser happy, the user gets to save more on data bundles and I spend less time debugging. Everyone's happy.

My suggestion to anybody who wants to learn JavaScript, Learn JavaScript without any framework first then learn one or two frmamework when you need to solve a real problem in JavaScript.