@ Noetic, for some reason i credited you, and still credit you, with greater abilities and reasoning than your last post justified.

You were absolutely unable to address any of the issues.

Let's have a look.

noetic2:


I have addressed this no less than 3 times on this forum.

a. was Jesus crucifixion prophesied before He was born?

b. did He fulfil all other prophecies concerning Him?

The prayer of Jesus can be examined from the point of view of teaching us how to pray, . . . . .always submit to the will of God.

The fact that something is prophesied does not mean it was the will of God. The prophets prophesied many terrible happenings which certainly were not willed by God. A prophecy, as you know, is a prediction of a future event. Daniel's prophecies on the future course of human empire were most omnious, and certainly those events could not be said to be the will of God. So please, bring on another argument.

Again, i notice you had absolutley nothing to say about the parable of the vineyard. It is striking in its stark rebuttable of your conception of the purpose of Jesus's death. In response you could only point to prophecy. AS I HAVE INDICATED, the fact that something is predicted does not mean it is the will of God.

Please give me your own alternate interpretation of that parable if you dare.

No matter how hard you try, you must still concede that you owe your salvation to the acts of a traitor: Judas Iscariot. Please be decent and express some gratitude to him for once!

I am really tired of the excuse that Jesus was carrying sin, and as such made the statement about God forsaking him.

   1. Is it possible really for the perfection of "God" (who you say Jesus is) to be tainted with sin?

   2. Is it possible for God to forsake God?

These ideas are so ludicruous i just can't help but be amazed that rational persons can defend them.

I will like to enquire if you are aware of the catholic conventions supervised by the Holy Roman Emperor (the Council of Nicea) which decided much of the dogma that you now tenaciously cling on to.

Noetic, a better response please.

I have told him as well but you know is cunning part, he decided to act the same way

@deepsight
anything prophecised is the will of GOD,be it good or bad, unless according to islamic doctrines satan is much mightier and more powerful than your own allah.
in my own bible isaiah 45;7 says, I form the light and create darkness,
      I bring prosperity and create disaster;
      I, the LORD, do all these things

the bible continues in subsequent verses of the same isaiah 45

Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
      to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground.
      Does the clay say to the potter,
      'What are you making?'
      Does your work say,
      'He has no hands'?

10 Woe to him who says to his father,
      'What have you begotten?'
      or to his mother,
      'What have you brought to birth?'

11 "This is what the LORD says—
      the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
      Concerning things to come,
      do you question me about my children,
      or give me orders about the work of my hands?


like noetic took the pains to highlight,if you have taken the time to read his retorts, it is written that cursed be  the individual that betrayed jesus,which judas did,so its immaterial really if judas did, or any other person unless you have something tangible you r trying to bring out from that.

1.it is possible for jesus who is perfect to be tainted by sin,if you check the exigencies of his mission on earth
2.AGAIN go and read all the numerous posts both noetic,davidlylan and others have put foward to break this down in the minutest details, its no one's fault if you have decided to ignore them.

ill use olabowale,and your muslim brother's well worn way this time,
you say the idea of christianity and its doctrines are ludicrous, i put it to you that mohammad is a total fraud,who plagiarised the bible and christian doctrines,in addittion ill ask you just one question of my own to counter your many questions

WHY IS MOHAMMAD,A SUPPOSED PIOUS AND HOLY PROPHET ENMESHED AND SURROUNDED BY SOOOO MUCH CONTROVERSIES,LIKE I ASKED OLABOWALE AND THE OTHERS WHO HAVE NOT BEING A BLE TO GIVE ME A SATISFACTORY ANSWER ,SURELY A MAN WHO WAS AN ARMED ROBBER,PAEDOPHILE,SEXUAL HEDONIST,PSYCHOTIC BE A MORAL COMPASS?

i await your prompt response thanks in advance

Please please please. Let us distill issues.

First off: I AM NOT A MUSLIM.

Let that be clear: because i was born a christian but could not continue to justify the ridiculous dogma that is preached by christianity.

You have stated that everything that happens is the will of God. In a broad philosophical context, this argument can sail through. But in specific terms it is riddled with problems.

For example: would you say that the original sin in the garden of Eden (the apple) was the will of God? He expressed great displeasure at it. It is clear that it was not the will of God. Because if it was, it would be really strange that he willed that and then proceeded to punish man for that.

For crying out loud, let's be fair - give me your own interpretation of the parable of the vineyard if you dare.

Nobody has stated that Jesus could not be tainted by sin: we said that God could not be tainted by sin.

Go ahead, if you dare, and state that God is tainted with sin.

No, Noetic in his last post showed some brevity of intellect, and i repeat my challenge for a deductive response to the issues i raised.

Deep Sight:

@ Noetic, for some reason i credited you, and still credit you, with greater abilities and reasoning than your last post justified.

You were absolutely unable to address any of the issues.

Let's have a look.

The fact that something is prophesied does not mean it was the will of God. The prophets prophesied many terrible happenings which certainly were not willed by God. A prophecy, as you know, is a prediction of a future event. Daniel's prophecies on the future course of human empire were most omnious, and certainly those events could not be said to be the will of God. So please, bring on another argument.

Can u give ONE example of ANY PROPHECY in the bible that is not of God's will? u must also establish and how and why it is not of God's will.

Again[b], i notice you had absolutley nothing to say about the parable of the vineyard[/b]. It is striking in its stark rebuttable of your conception of the purpose of Jesus's death. In response you could only point to prophecy. AS I HAVE INDICATED, the fact that something is predicted does not mean it is the will of God.

I believe that my response was adequate. You cannot single out a scripture to justify ur ill conceived notions.
in luke 11:5-8 Jesus Gave another parable of a sleeping friend,  . . . . . . . . does this parable suggest that God sleeps? read psalm 121:4
You cannot naively single out bible scriptures without having an understanding of inherent biblical notions. Your analysis of the vineyard is fundamentally flawed as it does not reflect the underlying purpose and message intended.

Please give me your own alternate interpretation of that parable if you dare.

The parable is as simple as stated. prophets were sent and were killed. . . and now the son Himself is here and would also be killed.
why would Jesus state this parable if He did not know that He would be killed?

No matter how hard you try, you must still concede that you owe your salvation to the acts of a traitor: Judas Iscariot. Please be decent and express some gratitude to him for once!

You are entitled to ur opinion. The bible has also stated its case. . . .cursed be the man through whom the prophecy is fulfilled.
Take for instance, there is a prophecy that when Mr A travels, he would be assassinated. ,  . .  .Mr A eventually travels and Mr B assassinates him. . .what credit is there for Mr B for assassinating Mr A? is his act justifiable?

I am really tired of the excuse that Jesus was carrying sin, and as such made the statement about God forsaking him.

Its not an excuse. . .neither is it a notion. . . its as easy as it comes. Jesus died for the sin of the world. . . . .take it or leave it.

   1. Is it possible really for the perfection of "God" (who you say Jesus is) to be tainted with sin?

   2. Is it possible for God to forsake God?

u need to define "perfection", "sin" "Forsake" and "God" before I can answer ur question. . . .  I hate to think that I am debating with another olabowale.

These ideas are so ludicruous i just can't help but be amazed that rational persons can defend them.

I will like to enquire if you are aware of the catholic conventions supervised by the Holy Roman Emperor (the Council of Nicea) which decided much of the dogma that you now tenaciously cling on to.

Noetic, a better response please.

all of the above are silly belly-aching notions that carry no intellectual prowess.

Not very impressed, noetic, will respond latter

im sure noetic is perfectly capable of defending his comments,however left to me i have always believed and i still believe that a large part of religion has to do with an individual's faith and inner convictions,what a pastor or an imam for that matter can do is to feed you with the word,the rest is left to the individual,so irrespective of what you believe that will not stop or hinder my salvation one bit.

if you go through the bible, free will plays a major part in every single law/commandment,obedience e.t.c  GOD told adam and eve not to touch a particular tree out of the garden of eden,and the devil tempted them and deceived them into eating of the fruit,for whatever reason he might have believed that in exercising their free will,they will hearken unto his word and keep away from the tree,especially when you consider their closeness,the bible said GOD strolled with adam and eve gisting as friends or families do, unless you are saying the devil is not real.well look around you and see if the devil is not perpetuating the same thing in all facets of the modern world

that free will is still part of us to this day, look at the account of job and what he went through?read that story in the bible
same as jesus himself hwile he was fasting and praying for 40 days and 40 nights his free will was tested
same as all the prophets,their free will was also tested, some failed and some suceeded


GOD was not tainted by sin,but jesus christ came to wipe away all our sins,same way as you will get wet wipe to clean off the sweat off your face,you wont use a dirty sponge you picked from the bin/gutter to wash yourself will you??you ll use something clean to wipe off dirt

Christianity my foot. The excuse they always present is faith. How can a corrupt bible with hundreds of contradiction be accurate. John 5:30 jesus confessed to be a slave of God. Wataguan lama

abuzola for gods sake stop speakin a language we dont understand

Is watagun lama a strange linco ?

. .

@noetic. Speechless cross worshipper

Abuzola:

Christianity my foot. The excuse they always present is faith. How can a corrupt bible with hundreds of contradiction be accurate. John 5:30 jesus confessed to be a slave of God. Wataguan lama

the day you leave christianity alone and stop tagging along being an irritating parasite your religion will either stand on its own independent two feet and grow stronger and more credible,or it will fall to pieces like a house built with a pack of cards, so i understand the reason why you really cant leave us,our doctrines and beliefs alone,cause that would mean an instant implosion and explosion for islam lol

Abuzola:

Christianity my foot. The excuse they always present is faith. How can a corrupt bible with hundreds of contradiction be accurate. John 5:30 jesus confessed to be a slave of God. Wataguan lama

what laughable idiots these islamists are. In one sentence he says the bible is corrupt, full of contradictions and is not accurate . . . the very next statement he quotes that same bible to prove the islamic claim that Jesus is only a slave of "God".

May the Lord help us.

davidylan - I AM STILL WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSES.

NOETIC'S ATTEMPT WAS ENTIRELY UNSATISFACTORY.

Deep Sight:

davidylan - I AM STILL WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSES.

NOETIC'S ATTEMPT WAS ENTIRELY UNSATISFACTORY.

Response to what?

I will only leave christianity alond when dude like noetic and david quit as well, the Quran tells us that as long as we exist they won't surrender neither will i. So welcome aboard

Abuzola:

I will only leave christianity alond when dude like noetic and david quit as well, the Quran tells us that as long as we exist they won't surrender neither will i. So welcome aboard

surrender to what/whom?

Please let's look at Jesus from this angle:
God is a spirit,He sought a way by which he could reveal himself 2 man thru a fellow MAN.He's like a voice behind a curtain.Hold on there!
The voice(spirit) behind d curtain now makes himself visible by PUTTING on FLESH & coming 2 earth thru d Virgin Mary(d Angel Gabriel had 4warned Mary of a miracle pregnancy)
Now,God in flesh(Jesus) didn't try 2 shakara by talking or preaching d very day he was born,BUT,like every human,he went thru all d stages of growth until he old enough 2 manifest d GOD IN HIM.
Jesus as a man prayed dt d cup should pass over him,but almost immediately said "not what I will,but what U(God) will" Mark 14:36,he uttered dt statement in flesh but his spirit man made him strong enough 2 say "not what I will, "
Another point dt is noteworthy is in Matthew 22:42-45,if Jesus was not Godsent,why would David refer 2 him as his Lord?
Yes God had 2 take away his face from Jesus on d cross cos "He was made sin,He who knew no sin" Jesus,who was already in d spirit saw God do this & he had 2 cry out 2 God not 2 forsake him, Mind u,it wasn't Jesus God turned away from,it was d sin on him He turned away from.Jesus said "no man can get 2 d father(God) except thru me(Jesus)
The trinity?
I can only explain it ds way:take 3 lit candle sticks,hmmm,NO,let 3ppl hold 3 lit candle sticks & join d flame 2gether,d result'll still be 1 tongue of flame. D Father,Son & d Holy Spirit can be likened unto dt single flame,they're 3 spirit entities dt work 2gether as one 2 control d universe.
@Deep Sight:Kudos 2 Judas Iscariot dt allowed himself 2B used by d in order for d scriptures 2 be fulfilled.
I rest my case 4 now!

Please let's look at Jesus from this angle:
God is a spirit,He sought a way by which he could reveal himself 2 man thru a fellow MAN.He's like a voice behind a curtain.Hold on there!
The voice(spirit) behind d curtain now makes himself visible by PUTTING on FLESH & coming 2 earth thru d Virgin Mary(d Angel Gabriel had 4warned Mary of a miracle pregnancy)
Now,God in flesh(Jesus) didn't try 2 shakara by talking or preaching d very day he was born,BUT,like every human,he went thru all d stages of growth until he old enough 2 manifest d GOD IN HIM.
Jesus as a man prayed dt d cup should pass over him,but almost immediately said "not what I will,but what U(God) will" Mark 14:36,he uttered dt statement in flesh but his spirit man made him strong enough 2 say "not what I will, "
Another point dt is noteworthy is in Matthew 22:42-45,if Jesus was not Godsent,why would David refer 2 him as his Lord?
Yes God had 2 take away his face from Jesus on d cross cos "He was made sin,He who knew no sin" Jesus,who was already in d spirit saw God do this & he had 2 cry out 2 God not 2 forsake him, Mind u,it wasn't Jesus God turned away from,it was d sin on him He turned away from.Jesus said "no man can get 2 d father(God) except thru me(Jesus)
The trinity?
I can only explain it ds way:take 3 lit candle sticks,hmmm,NO,let 3ppl hold 3 lit candle sticks & join d flame 2gether,d result'll still be 1 tongue of flame. D Father,Son & d Holy Spirit can be likened unto dt single flame,they're 3 spirit entities dt work 2gether as one 2 control d universe.
@Deep Sight:Kudos 2 Judas Iscariot dt allowed himself 2B used by d in order for d scriptures 2 be fulfilled.
I rest my case 4 now!

Kudos 2 Judas Iscariot dt allowed himself 2 be used by d devil

Kudos 2 Judas Iscariot dt allowed himself 2 be used by d devil

This is funny. You people should regard judas as hero, without jesus dying there wouldn't ve been christendom instead of blaming him, kai christianity and their ways of lies

If jesus of the bible didn't die it would have been another different lie entirely

tayotoyin:

Please let's look at Jesus from this angle:
God is a spirit,He sought a way by which he could reveal himself 2 man thru a fellow MAN.He's like a voice behind a curtain.Hold on there!
The voice(spirit) behind d curtain now makes himself visible by PUTTING on FLESH & coming 2 earth thru d Virgin Mary(d Angel Gabriel had 4warned Mary of a miracle pregnancy)
Now,God in flesh(Jesus) didn't try 2 shakara by talking or preaching d very day he was born,BUT,like every human,he went thru all d stages of growth until he old enough 2 manifest d GOD IN HIM.
Jesus as a man prayed dt d cup should pass over him,but almost immediately said "not what I will,but what U(God) will" Mark 14:36,he uttered dt statement in flesh but his spirit man made him strong enough 2 say "not what I will, "
Another point dt is noteworthy is in Matthew 22:42-45,if Jesus was not Godsent,why would David refer 2 him as his Lord?
Yes God had 2 take away his face from Jesus on d cross cos "He was made sin,He who knew no sin" Jesus,who was already in d spirit saw God do this & he had 2 cry out 2 God not 2 forsake him, Mind u,it wasn't Jesus God turned away from,it was d sin on him He turned away from.Jesus said "no man can get 2 d father(God) except thru me(Jesus)
The trinity?
I can only explain it ds way:take 3 lit candle sticks,hmmm,NO,let 3ppl hold 3 lit candle sticks & join d flame 2gether,d result'll still be 1 tongue of flame. D Father,Son & d Holy Spirit can be likened unto dt single flame,they're 3 spirit entities dt work 2gether as one 2 control d universe.
@Deep Sight:Kudos 2 Judas Iscariot dt allowed himself 2B used by d in order for d scriptures 2 be fulfilled.
I rest my case 4 now!

brilliant surmission sister,i learnt more from this brief post so im sure abuzola who is willing to learn about christianity as evidenced from his posts has learnt as well pls keep this up and let us educate thesesinners and bring them to the side of light

I learnt nothing but gibberish. How can god die ? Who resurrected him ? Satan ?

Abuzola:

I learnt nothing but gibberish. How can god die ? Who resurrected him ? Satan ?

go back to your bible and find out awaiting evangelist abuzola lol

Evengelism you say ?