frank317:


Long meaningless episode.

U claim u have a talking blue dog. I say your claim is false as long as u cannot provide it. U ask me to prove that u don't have a blue talking dog. Do u think u deserve a reply?

What kind of proof of God's nonexistent do u want order than the fact that we can't see, feel or hear him?

When I think something is nonexistent, the only way, I repeat, the only way I can prove this is critically analyse your suggestions and if it's not reasonable I go ahead to reject ur claim.
If you are looking for a proof of the nonexistent of ur claim... Then u are already on a long thing

Lucasiangrey:
how were you able to tell it was the outside of your body?What state was your body while you were out?What initiated this act?

LiberaDeus:


So how do you propose DNA with its 3 billion letter code came about?

donnffd:


The misconception that DNA is such an intelligent thing baffles me and i believe it stems from the fact most people dont fully understand what it is and its function in living things.

DNA is just a molecule that can replicate, its replication is not perfect(another sign of non-intelligence), sometimes segments get duplicated, sometimes bases change and so on. In about 3.8billion years, you have a molecule that has been undergoing these kind of changes and you are still surprised that it is this complex?

The exact origin of the molecule is still speculative, some say it started from RNA(see RNA world hypothesis), which it most likely did, but we cant be sure because it has not been experimentally proven, but whatever or how ever it came about, it is obvious that no intelligence whatsoever was involved.

LiberaDeus:


Kindly explain how that DNA controls the growth of biological life forms. Doesn't it seem so coincidental that they self replicate into cells and the cells intelligently organize themselves.

Please take your time and explain, I am all ears

donnffd:


I have things to do, i cant start explain, but a good google search and a good source can quench that thirst i am sure.

I would say this though, We dont fully understand every thing, and that is not a bad thing, it just means we should continue to strife for knowledge, but a terrible mistake would be to assume intelligence to a phenomena just simply because of the fact that you dont understand it.

LiberaDeus:


I have read a lot on DNA and life. Nothing seems convincing concerning the origin of the first cell and DNA.

I thought your explanation could throw light on something I haven't seen .

I will read more on it. But as I said that is the only entity that throws in the need for a designer, every other thing can be traced to physical and quantum mechanics and it's effects.

rhektor:


Ilogical
The fact that your TV is switched off does not mean that the TV station is not transmitting do you get? Tune yourself to what religious people offers and see if you won't feel, hear and see God as real as it is. Your problem is just that you are too pompous to admit that someone has a knowledge of what you don't know. That you've not met Bill Gates before means he does not exist? You can feel his work but you are refusing to admit him. Please empty yourself of all you think you know and do a comprehensive research on the existence of God. Forget about those useless logic you think you have imbibed. I'm quite sure that you have not seen Mars before but you believe it exists, have you seen Venus before? But the religious people said there's a God and you think it is a blind faith? E have different archaeological evidences and eye witnesses accounts for the prophets of old on the bible, we have various landmarks and events that points to the personality of Jesus yet you don't want to believe? It simply means that your unbelief is not as a result of lack of evidence but it is due to your stubborness

frank317:


Well, at least , thank me for showing u how foolish is it for you to want me to proof the nonexistence of your so called God to you.

Oga, I want to remind you here that we are talking about a supposed creator of you and I. Do you realize that there are various religion claiming to have knowledge of him yet man remains man, without knowledge of anything... making assumptions and trying to male sense of his world. Is God a God of religion? why must i tune to your religion to know who created me? Do you tune to anything to know your father? doesnt it just come naturally because he is there for you? How can you tell me religious folks have knowledge of the creator yet they living life just like me, in fact I am better than some of them. Perhaps you think the knowledge of who a creator is is a joke.

i have not seen Mars before and I can decide to accept it exists or not, it not important to me... perhaps thats how your so called creator is too. I have seen images of Mars and that's all I know about it and information about it is interesting.. so? why will i start believing in Mars, will it help me get more food on my table? If i wake up tomorrow and there is a new info that Mars does not exist, how does that change anything for me?

How are u comparing a supposed creator to Mars and Venus? Dont do that because you are turning this God theory into a huge joke. Do you know what it means by me actually knowing that I have a creator and rejecting it? How can i know there is a creator and then come on line and say its a lie? what do I have to gain by saying I have no creator when i know i have one?

How can you say there is God and I dont know about it, yet you cannot tell me anything about this God? How am i stubborn for not accepting something that does not make sense to me? If i also reject that Oduduwa is the creator, do u think i am also stubborn?

Even if Jesus existed how does that make him God? Is Mohammed a special messenger of God too? What will i stand to gain by stubbornly saying I have one eyes when i know I have tow eyes?

Oga if God exists, me and you will not be having this conversation, simple. There will be no confusion, whatsoever about it. If i say i have one eyes will u bother trying to prove to me i have two eyes?

LiberaDeus:


Don't mind them.

Imagine going into a store to buy a plasma tv.
So many vendors approach you, they tell you the benefits of buying their tv.

You now ask for a trial a stand, the vendors tell you to buy it first and take it home and that's the only trial that you can be offered.
Ok you now agree to take home a plasma tv without testing it there with the faith that it will work well.
When you put it on, the color seems to be very disappointing, you call the vendor and he tells you to have faith, only when you have faith and believe the best of that tv will you see the best of it.

You are also advised never to question the quality and the moment you try to use another vendor then the deal is off and you will no longer be on warranty.

That my friend best describes the evil of religions
You are sold a story, you ask for confirmation but confirmation is denied only when you swallow the story hook,line and sinker.

If you swallow it and start asking questions then you find out that according to the religion you shouldn't question god[ a god you don't know], you shouldn't even consider other religions cause when you do that you are damned and won't experience the benefits of the religion. It is a never ending cycle of blind faith and fear.
Only the deep thinkers can see through the facade.

frank317:


Bro, the whole God thing is beginning to tiring and useless. THe more I think about it, the more I wonder if these people actually have brain. God is an assumption as the creator for the universe, all of a sudden they claim they know this assumption and talk with it and say different meaningless things about this assumption.
the craziest thing is when a mature man who could be educated makes this statement, "The fact that u dont see anything does not me it is not there." Yet when i tell him I have a blue talking dog, he will definitley not believe me. If i am supposed to believe in God by fate, why should i believe in superman by faith.

DoctorAlien:


Yes, the fact that you don't see anything does not mean it's not there.

Can you show me "shame"?

Is shame not there?

DoctorAlien:
LiberaDeus,

I'm not a man of much words. Please, when trying to quote me:

1. Go straight to the point. If all that you have to tell me can be squeezed into one sentence, please do so. It doesn't have to be two sentences when one is enough.

2. Don't bring in unnecessary, topic-derailing, additions e.g. telling me how I'm looking for a hole in your argument.

3. If you have nothing meaningful to tell me, don't bother mentioning me.

Thank you.

I think I've succeeded in proving you wrong because you agreed that we cannot see shame but that we can see its effect. It exists then, even though we don't see it, because we see its effects.

1. What are the effects of shame?

2. How are you sure that those combinations of effects are not caused by something other than shame? In essence, prove that shame is the cause of those effects.

Edited.

LiberaDeus:


The questions you asked are funny, are we playing a linguistic game or what.

1. Are you seriously asking the effects of shame. I won't bother to answer that cause even tour 5 year old nephew knows that

2. This is so funny. I won't even go down this path. Asking how you know its shame that causes something is like me asking you how I know its love that makes you act in a certain way to your siblings.

DoctorAlien:


You are not the only one that doesn't have answers to those questions. Don't worry.

Bye.

DoctorAlien:


Yes, the fact that you don't see anything does not mean it's not there.

Can you show me "shame"?

Is shame not there?

LiberaDeus:


The questions you asked are funny, are we playing a linguistic game or what.

1. Are you seriously asking the effects of shame. I won't bother to answer that cause even tour 5 year old nephew knows that

2. This is so funny. I won't even go down this path. Asking how you know its shame that causes something is like me asking you how I know its love that makes you act in a certain way to your siblings.

Seriously, in this modern day and age. You actually want me to list out effects of shame. Let me ask you, if you see an embarrassed person won't you know? Can you recognize an angry person?

If you can recognize these emotions and their effects in human behavior and expression then why ask me how I know its those emotions that cause it.

Don't try and cloak your god in mystery by trying to play a philosophical hide and seek game.

I will say it again and again, if you are seriously asking me the effects of emotions like shame, anger, love then we have no business arguing.

Shame as an emotion has clearly visible effects that can be seen, measured , predicted and recognized. Your god doesn't have those attributes, you can only hide him under knowledge voids and gaps
In the end, your god is so imaginary that something invisible like emotions and electricity have a greater effect than him.

You have proved only yourself wrong, we can see the effects of emotions and if you are expecting me to answer a kindergarten question like the effects of shame you might as well ask me how I know 3 plus 3 equals 6.
You have been proven wrong cause you cannot show that your god that is invisible has any other effect that can be measured by other non visual agencies.

frank317:


That's my problem with u. Do u know what shame is? If you know why it is how can u ask me to show it to u?

How can people be body daft(no insult intended)

DoctorAlien:


Do you know who GOD is? If you know who He is, how can you ask me to show Him to you?

Yea, I know that anybody who doesn't subscribe to your views is daft. That's a very valid logical argument. It is not ad hominem at all.

frank317:


I don't know who God is, but I am told he is the creator. Fine... Since u know who he is tell me things about him.


I am still waiting for you to define shame for me.... U asked me if I can see shame, and I want to presume you know what shame is, kindly define it, then I can proceed to understand stand why you ask me if I can see shame.

Further, do u think I can comfortably place God, the supposed creator of the world , in the same category as shame?

DoctorAlien:


What if I tell you I don't know what shame is?

frank317:


Why then did u ask me to show u shame? Did me and u discuss about shame before u brought it up? Well, u jumped into the argument like u gat somthing so say now u intend for me to run round and round with u.

A guy who does not know the meaning of shame(a word he wants to compare his God with) wants to tell me about the creator of this universe.

Shame on u.... If u like go and wait for the word shame to fall on ur head and break it... U are asking me to show shame, rubbish.

DoctorAlien:
[s][/s]

Don't make the low comprehending capacity of your brain too obvious. Trace this discussion to the first time I quoted you and see that I was only trying to show you that there are things that exist even if we can't see them.

Bye.

DoctorAlien:
Just look at this fellow above me.

I have always said it: atheists who pose as sole arbiters of knowledge and rationality become incoherent and confused(or start acting ignorant) when you present real logic to them. Is it a surprise that some of the greatest and most logical minds ever to exist believe in and acknowledge the supremacy of GOD?

No. GOD is the source of all knowledge, and the fear of Him is the beginning of Wisdom.

DoctorAlien:
Just look at this fellow above me.

I have always said it: atheists who pose as sole arbiters of knowledge and rationality become incoherent and confused(or start acting ignorant) when you present real logic to them. Is it a surprise that some of the greatest and most logical minds ever to exist believe in and acknowledge the supremacy of GOD?

No. GOD is the source of all knowledge, and the fear of Him is the beginning of Wisdom.

LiberaDeus:


Don't mind them.

Imagine going into a store to buy a plasma tv.
So many vendors approach you, they tell you the benefits of buying their tv.

You now ask for a trial a stand, the vendors tell you to buy it first and take it home and that's the only trial that you can be offered.
Ok you now agree to take home a plasma tv without testing it there with the faith that it will work well.
When you put it on, the color seems to be very disappointing, you call the vendor and he tells you to have faith, only when you have faith and believe the best of that tv will you see the best of it.

You are also advised never to question the quality and the moment you try to use another vendor then the deal is off and you will no longer be on warranty.

That my friend best describes the evil of religions
You are sold a story, you ask for confirmation but confirmation is denied only when you swallow the story hook,line and sinker.

If you swallow it and start asking questions then you find out that according to the religion you shouldn't question god[ a god you don't know], you shouldn't even consider other religions cause when you do that you are damned and won't experience the benefits of the religion. It is a never ending cycle of blind faith and fear.
Only the deep thinkers can see through the facade.

frank317:


Lol... Logic to u, is asking me to show u shame just becasue u can't show me my creator... Give urself a thumbs up... U try

DoctorAlien:


"A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, except the sign of the prophet Jonas..." Matt. 16:4

DoctorAlien:


"A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, except the sign of the prophet Jonas..." Matt. 16:4

MrMarvelous:

1 Peter 3:15New International Version (NIV)

15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.